I have just had a conversation with some show breeders, they say that they have been told that in the eyes of the pet owning public and general rescues, that Show Exhibitors & the Kennel Club are too lazy to do anything against puppy farms! The public think because of this that Jemima is right that show exhibtors simply do not care, they would rather be at a show than actively get involved in any form of anti-puppy farm activity.

What do others here think?

Well some breeders might be, but I know I've been actively involved in Rescue & Anti Puppy Farmers, Dog Dealers, BYB & anyone who breeds from unregistered dogs especially if they are not health tested & I also campaign against designer dog breeders & "mongrel" breeders since before I ever bred a puppy & I have taken back any dog I have bred or by my stud dogs that was no longer wanted for whatever reason-including a 7 1/2 year old GSD

Speaking as a show exhibitor, I am also involved with puppy farm research and try to get the anti-puppy farm message out there to as many people as I can. I think most of the breeders that I know are strongly against puppy farming and do all they can to eradicate it (from my breed anyway).

> they say that they have been told

Sounds a bit odd, I wonder who 'told' them.  I think the link between that programme, Jemima wotserface and puppy farming is a bit tenuous.  I watched the programme, read the discussions on here, the newspapers etc and I don't remember a 'call to arms' against the puppy farms unless I was watching another programme entirely.  I rather thought that the BBC programme was lumping all breeders together and didn't really make the example of puppy farms and back yard breeders that it could/should have done.

> they would rather be at a show than actively get involved in any form of anti-puppy farm activity

It's not as if there is somewhere else they should be; like a rally!  That makes it sound rather like one should choose to show OR be anti puppy farmer.  I'm very surprised that this is the message your friends have received.  Plenty of good, caring and knowledgable breeders will show their healthy breed type stock and make themselves available to be judged for doing the same.  None of that indicates that they are too lazy to do anything about puppy farming, in fact by continuing to demonstrate the quality of their dogs they are providing a valuable alternative to farms and BYB's.  To say nothing of the work they may do privately to oppose such activity.

Strange - maybe I was watching something else.

are you a reporter polly??

Most show and proper breeders will advise what constitutes a puppy farmer but in many ways this is so diverse it is hard to really advise.

Funny how she is calling us but certain magazines seem to advertise more for puppy farming type breeders than those of us who care and health test our dogs to a high standard!

Sam I would say Polly is looking at her details on this site.

Sam, I think Polly is a reporter but is on "our" side :)

Maybe Jemima should come to some of our meetings, a very active group, originally set up to raise funds to prosecute a well known puppy farmer. not simply a commercial breeder, but a huge family concern covering north and south of the Scottish/English Border.

I personally have liased with trading standards in Carlise, who have been  tremedous in helping resolve certain situations.. and actively managed to get one of the 'outlets' closed down...

We go about this legally and it takes time, it cant be publicised, as that will prejudice any future court proceedings...

talk about caught between a rock and a hard place.. :-(

I have had a  situation recently which shocked and saddened  me.
Having  owned labradors since 1982 been in showing and breeding over many years breeding only  occasionaly in that time , I recently had a litter from my Labrador who is a  pretty well known succesful show dog with one CC  it had been ten years since I bred a litter which produced a Labrador male  winning 17 ccs and  many rec CC and some with best of breed and reserve Best of breed at Crufts  I felt I would have a nice litter.
  I have run a rescue for labradors for 18 years and have 7 dedicated kennels here for them,  we re house about 300 a year .
I kept pretty quiet about the litter but then I though hang on why should I ,my life should be seperate from rescue even though its hard to have a private life here.
I received a poision pen letter through the post abusive email even got  nasty posts on my rescue website :(
So that programe has caused ripples every where.
I have really put my life  on hold for rescue and yet have commited the cardinal sin of breeding a litter.
I was almost told you cant rescue dogs and have show dogs or breed simple as that.
Amazing,lets hope common sense wins out in the end.

"Show Exhibitors & the Kennel Club are too lazy to do anything against puppy farms!"

What has it got to do with laziness? In reality, show exhibitors and the Kennel Club have less to do with puppy farms than do the general public. Show exhibitors don't buy their dogs from puppy farms and the vast majority of puppy farmed dogs are not KC registered. The people who should be campaigning against the puppy farmers and backyard breeders are the RSPCA, but they and their moronic chief vet are too busy slagging off pedigree dogs in general to bother with addressing the single biggest cause of rescue dogs in the UK.
When the RSPCA spend some time (and money) on campaigning against puppy farmers, I might have a little respect for them. Until then, despite the good work carried out at branch level, RSPCA at national level is a bad joke.

As someone who shows and works their dogs, occasionally breeds, and helps run our biggest breed welfare organisation, I spend a great deal of my time campaigning against puppy farmers and BYBs. Most of our volunteers are also involved in showing their KC registered dogs. Our organisation has a very strict code of ethics and all our own dogs are health-tested. However, 90+% of the dogs we have through welfare are unregistered, from untested parents and bred by puppy farms/BYBs or incredibly stupid "pet" breeders.

I would welcome Jemima Harrison, the BBC, the RSPCA and anyone else to use their influence wisely this time around and attack the real canine problem in the UK - the puppy farmers, backyard breeders and irresponsible "pet" breeders. Then we might just take them seriously and not regard them as bandwagon-jumping opportunists.

Well said, Mick.

> are you a reporter polly?? <

Yes but I have never hidden this fact, I work for Our Dogs newspaper. I never use comments unless I ask for permission and even then will disguise the name/details of the sender if they wish. I enjoy CD debates as you are all the grass roots of the exhibitors and breeders who take responsible ownership and breeding really seriously so when I hear odd or daft things like this I like to bounce them around here.

As regards the link, between the programme and the anti puppy farm thing, I probably did not explain it well enough. Jemima would not cover puppy farming, as she wrote in an email to me it has been covered before by a number of companies. The idea it seems comes from converstions with members of the public at Discover Dogs. These people had no idea that many of you there had our 'show' dogs with you. The breeders on the stands who were told this, were told that as breeders could not be bothered to breed with health as the first thought, then they would hardly bother with dogs in general. Infact they said that they thought that show breeders and exhibitors would not support a protest or other action against a puppy farmer as many are just that because they are too lazy to put their own house in order.

I know as do you that this is not the case, but I wondered how you all felt that some sections of the public are lumping the two things together.

Going back to the reporter thing, there are many internet boards for dog owners, campaigners of various sorts and for the big charities, these internet sites all have forums which are regularly scanned for information by reporters and TV journalists. Not all of these reporters are as up front and allow members to know they are reporters, unlike Julie Hill, (Dog Cast Radio) and myself. I have been a member of Champdogs since it first started many years ago as Leigh and Jo know, (does this qualify me for a long service award? lol ;-D)

Something also not considered is that many people have differing levels of involvement in the show world.

For some it is a life consuming passion and they breed, show and act as custodians for their breed, others simply enjoy the occasional outing to show their pet dog.

Hi Polly,

Sometimes these statements drive me crackers.  The problem bigger than the puppy farmer is the silly impatient buyers who will just not wait. " I want a puppy and I want it now".

I have just this minute came off the phone to a freind of a freind who went ahead and impulsively bought from a puppy farmer even though I spent a good hour the day before telling them what to look for, who only to buy from etc etc.    I was actually was running 3 puppies on at the time when they first contacted me and I told them that I would be going down to two once I had decided.  Told them to call back in a couple of weeks and I would keep them in mind.  The very next day after all the warnings off  they go and buy out the local paper, the puppy now has a very painful condition called CMO and the breeder she bought it from is not interested.   I know it is not guaranteed that a show person would not breed this but they would not breed from parents knowing they are carriers nor turn their back once a problem has been found.

Now seeking advise from me once it is really too late. She is attached to the puppy so doesn't want to take it back.

Sometimes I get so frustrated.  What more can we do.

Secondly I think the exhibitor and the Kennel club look at things often differently.   Most show breeders I know don't just want puppies raised ehtically but of good examples or at least resembling of the breed :-)   The rules the KC set often brings us to question that we are on the same wave length.

Polly you have been around a long time as I have you are an open,honest   person so do not have to justify yourself. or your Job, I pop on here as often as I can but I do not always have time  to post  and its a very busy,informative  site .
Anyone who buys a dog paper knows of your articles and I rely on finding  info like the one you have highlighted  today I wouldnt have known otherwise.

I quite agree Glenys(hence my reply)

What that program has done is given the puppy farnmers, BYB etc a new catch phrase"not in bred, not KC reg-so healthy" I see this so often now it is so annoying

I agree Mattie.. Polly is one of the most genuine, open and honest people I have had the pleasure of being aquainted with.. both in business and pleasure...

I think we are all becoming so suspicious of peoples ulterior motives, in the aftermath, that we are possibly doing ourselves an injustice...

Polly has asked a question, openly on a public forum, we all have (and are entitled) to our opinions.. and in this way, we are also able to voice them.. No Editing, No cutting room floor ... but opinions and information discussed in an adult manner, the way it should be..

We are all able to make up our own minds from this type of discussion/debate..

There will always be the Jemima's and the less than scrupulous breeder sadly, but dont let it blind you to the good that the MAJORITY in both these fields do..

There is a passion behind all of us.. marred by those who seek glory (in their eyes) ;-)

PS Polly,  Hoping you realised my post wasn't directed at all at you just at the the comments you had heard that exhibitors don't care. ( Just incase it came across wrong)

I think we can all agree most of us certainly do on here.  I think most go beyond what would be reasonably expected.

I guess at times we have to get used to the verbal bashings :-)

That's awful Mattie. I know myself how much you do for the breed and how so often you have had to sacrifice the opportunity of the next show puppy because of the work you do.

I can never understand people at times I can't.   Some people seem to live to cause or be involved in some sort of agro or people bashing.

There is a passion behind all of us.. marred by those who seek glory (in their eyes) 


Pretty much sums it up Kay you said it better than I :-)

>I have just this minute came off the phone to a freind of a freind who went ahead and impulsively bought from a >puppy farmer even though I spent a good hour the day before telling them what to look for

Oh same here :( :(

a distant relative bought a dog from what turned out to be a puppy farm.  A small breed, he had cruciate problems and also disc problems (vet had never seen it in a short-backed breed before ) he also looked NOTHING like the breed he was supposed to be.  For years he regretted buying from a Puppy Farmer.  Dog has now died after much expense and he is looking for another of the same breed.  I've spent many hours with him over the years discussing what to avoid in BYB's, PF's, to go thru Breed Club and what health testing to look for (eye's etc)  Yesterday he phones to say they had been to look at a pup, turned out to be a PF'er and they came away without a pup - so far so good.  Then he says he's found another pup bred in a home, but wasn't sure as the breeder is very young, not a breed club member, no reason for breeding etc. :(  After some discussion reiterating the need for proper eye-testing and certificates to prove, I suggested that he call me today and I could give him some numbers to ring.  So far no phonecall. 

I can't help thinking that an impulse purchase has been made again :(   The 'old' dog only died last Thursday :(

Why is it that people no-longer want to wait for anything?   To me if it's worth having it's worth waiting for

And why is it that people can pay upwards of half a thousand pounds for something without checking that it is as described, tested and has the correct documentation?     I'm sure they wouldn't buy a car this way

I say to people everytime they ask for help that puppy buyers so often spend more time looking for the right Plasma/LCD TV that they will have for a few years that a dog they will have upwards of 10 years.

Hi Blue,

I never read your post to mean anything other than you said. :-) I replied to two posts in one, firstly Sam asked if I was a reporter which I am, and secondly I wanted to expand where the information came from. Reading Sams post I realised that there might be members on the forum (newer than us long service nominees.... lol), who did not realise that I do work for Our Dogs.

I do agree there are puppy buyers out there who will take longer to decide on something trivial like which shoes go with this outfit than they would spend on finding out how to buy a good puppy.

This reminded me actually of a woman I used to work with many years ago, she wanted a puppy, so I told everything she needed to know and told her where a good litter was. Off she went and said to me she was impressed and really liked one puppy. I later saw her with a puppy, and by this time knew that she had not bought a puppy from the litter I had recommended. So I asked her where she got her puppy from, and she told me she had bought it having found a litter advertised in the local paper. The pup was not from health tested parents, it was bred by a BYB and she had decided to buy from this person as the puppy was still a pedigree but was cheaper! Sigh.......

>> Why is it that people no-longer want to wait for anything?   To me if it's worth having it's worth waiting for <IMG alt="confused" src="/images/confused.gif"/>

many of you are in multi-dog households but for me there is nothing emptier than the sound of a house that used to have a dog in it.  If I lost an only dog I would probably be more tempted to rush in and get 'a' dog than I would if I still had the company of other dogs in my house and could wait for the right dog to come along.

I never read your post to mean anything other than you said. 
Im relieved :-)

Sometimes the written word comes out a bit harsh :-)

How do you do the quote thingy ?

Blue  thank you for always having kind words to say  it means a lot. xx

You are right about the wrtten word it is always best to read and re read same with email if in doubt dont press send ;)

This is in answer to Matties post re rescue and breeding.

Running a rescue and breeding has always been frowned upon in rescue circles. That didn't start with any TV program IMHO. I run a rescue and I don't breed, however, I know some that do and I, for one, can see nothing wrong with it if it's done properly. Don't mind any idiots who think they have something to say about which they know nothing.

Invite them to walk a mile in your boots re rescue and THEN come back and see what they have to say.

;)

I can't see any contradiction between running a rescue and responsible breeding either. In 15 years, only one of the dogs we have bred has ever needed rehoming and that was because the owner had died and his son didn't want the dog. In the almost two years we have been running our breed rescue, only three of the 250+ dogs which we have taken in and rehomed have been bred by responsible and reputable breeders. All three were collected from us within hours by angry breeders as in every case the dog was relinquished against the terms of the breeder's puppy contract. The vast majority of the dogs we have taken in have been (badly) bred by puppy farmers/backyard breeders/"pet" breeders. Good breeders aren't contributing to the rescue problem, and if they can be involved in the rescue process all the better.

>many of you are in multi-dog households but for me there is nothing emptier than the sound of a house that used to have a dog in it.  If I lost >an only dog I would probably be more tempted to rush in and get 'a' dog than I would if I still had the company of other dogs in my house and >could wait for the right dog to come along

Before I had the Bedlingtons I lived with a X-breed, I was actually researching a pedigree pup when I was told about him - he was unwanted and badly treated.  He was a lovely boy, full grown and fab temperament and after a couple of baths a very beautiful specimen.  In short everything I had specified at the time, except the right breed ( health testing was almost unheard of 22 years ago)  He lived till he was 15. 

I waited 2 dogless years before I had my first Bedlington (I'd already waited about 40! ) It was important to get the right dog and temperament was top of the list, this also gave me more time to save up for exactly the right dog and to do the research to find a breeder I could trust ;)

I can understand rushing in if the dog is free and you know what you're taking on ;)    What I find amazing is spending a HUUUUGE sum of money without first researching the best possible deal -  to put it on a level with buying any other commodity,  do people really just walk into a shop, point to a £700 TV and say I'll have that one, without first looking at others and checking which one works best or has the best reputation?

How do you do the quote thingy ? :-)

Copy what you want to quote ( by copying and pasting with your mouse then after your in your reply box click the "tt"  button just above which will give you  [t t] put your words between these [/t t] and it should work.

Hope that makes sense :-)

This is in answer to Matties post re rescue and breeding.

Running a rescue and breeding has always been frowned upon in rescue circles. That didn't start with any TV program IMHO. I run a rescue and I don't breed, however, I know some that do and I, for one, can see nothing wrong with it if it's done properly. Don't mind any idiots who think they have something to say about which they know nothing.

Invite them to walk a mile in your boots re rescue and THEN come back and see what they have to say.



Thing is if I had not been on the commitee of a labrador breed club  many years ago I wouldnt have even known there was a need for rescue :( 

Good idea next time anyone has ago I can give them that quote,thankyou.

Thank you Blue for the advice  x

>The problem bigger than the puppy farmer is the silly impatient buyers who will just not wait. " I want a puppy and I want it now".

Couldn't agree more! Unfortunately there are people out in the world who decide they want something, want it right now and as is life there is always someone there to fill a gap in the market. Sadly puppy farming and all this designer dog breeding is passing by ignored by tv makers. Thats where the real story is in my mind.

Karen

Karen, it's the same TV makers who actually publicise in a big way in the magazines your cross breeds with daft names, so doubt that they will go there, or they could surprise us.

Whether this is relevant or not:
Jemima is certainly not ignorant of impatient and cheap puppy buyers and bad/irresponsible puppy producers
as she is actively involved in Lab and Springer rescue and I am sure she has seen her quota of results of the
above mentioned problem causers.

While this may not be directly linked to the program, I am much more gobsmacked by the reactions of the
RSPCA and the likes after the "revelations" in the program. Each and every one involved in/with dogs has
known about certain medical problems and the decline of breeds as a result for years. If now certain orga-
nisations decide to entirely blame the Kennel Club and "pull out of Crufts", this means two things to me:
i) They are not as professional and clever as they thought they may be and have ignored the facts surrounding them.
ii) They are nor as professional and clever as they thought they may be and have NOT KNOWN or realised what was surrounding them.

Instead of teaming up and developing a strategy to IMPROVE the situation all that seems to happen is stick out
the finger and blame them.

Hi Big Ears,

A points few which I think you will be interested in:

Firstly I put the title to this subject because I knew it would make people read it, and more importantly it was what the public told some of the dog breeders at Discover Dogs, and is not really anything to do with Jemima who I know runs Black Retriever Rescue. This week Jemima is in the papers saying she has been the target for malicious emails, well after her programme, many dog owners and breeders faced a lot of trouble from their neighbours, and more frighteningly from complete strangers while walking their dogs. There have been a number of threads on the internet forums about this including here. I am sure most people would not know Jemima if she walked up to them, where as the people who were abused after the programme were unknown to their assailants.

As to the organisations pulling out of Crufts, I am sure they will be the losers in the long run. Pedigree told the Kennel Club and it has been known in the UK canine press that Pedigree was going to pull out of all dog shows over a two year period, which started two years ago. They have pulled out of this Crufts because of re-organisation as are most businesses due to the credit crunch. This Crufts was to be their last had they gone ahead with it. I think I am right in saying it was at Bournemouth this year that Pedigree did not have a stand as they had decided to axe the trade stand at general shows.

Regarding not teaming up, before the programme a number of organisations were trying to work together, now all have decided to pull out of Crufts and absolutely none are working together. How this can benefit the over all welfare of dogs is beyond me! To better the welfare of dogs we need as you say all organisations pooling resources and really helping dogs.

So far every organisation including the RSPCA, Dogs Trust, BVA and the Kennel Club have called for an independant review of pedigree dogs.... I'm sure like me you can spot the obvious problem here? Everyone has called for the review and it has got to the point that there is no independant organisation left to do it! :-D How stupid can they get? I spoke to the BVA this week and they had no idea what the Kennel Club requires of it's Accredited Breeders. They had issued a press release for all dogs to be permanently identified, which is one of the corner stones of the KC ABS. In discussion with the BVA I discovered there was a lot of information they did not know. In fact they were not the only organisation who did not know about various areas the Kennel Club and dog breeders are involved in.

So Big Ears I expect we can see you at the protest on the 30th November outside the Leeds superstore? Protesting against puppy farmers and retail outlets being allowed to sell puppies and dogs to any passing person who suddenly finds they want a cute little doggie.

Is there a protest there?  If so I'll be there as it is not far from where I live and I have been trying to stop people going 'just to have a look'.

Thank you georgepig we will be pleased to see you there.

There is also to be a follow up protest to Downing Street on the 12th January. we have a paper version of the petition which has loads of people signing up and we hope they will all sign this petition as well. The two petitions will be combined for the Downing Street protest.

We need as many people on the street in Leeds and then Downing Street as possible. The Countryside Alliance could do it for hunting, so why not do it for the dogs?

I agree there are some that are inpatient buyers then there is others like me that believe they did the work, waited a long-long time did the research checked out the breeder at the KC etc yet still got caught out.

I think a lot of you really do not realise how many unscrupulous breeders that hide under the likes of the accredited scheme and the guise of good breeder in and out the show circles. Many organisations hands are also tied they can not divulge information needed to protect the puppy purchaser others just refuse to give the information needed or just do not care. 

Polly, I'm just interested in your point of view with regard to Our Dogs and their allowing advertising from and about DL registrations?

> I have just had a conversation with some show breeders, they say that they have been told that in the eyes of the pet owning public and general rescues, that Show Exhibitors & the Kennel Club are too lazy to do anything against puppy farms! The public think because of this that Jemima is right that show exhibtors simply do not care, they would rather be at a show than actively get involved in any form of anti-puppy farm activity.
>
> What do others here think?

There is a load of glorified puppy farmers (bad breeders) on the kennel clubs books and with the conversations I have had with the KC in the past I was told there hands where tied with the amount of info they could give and on other conversations the attitude I got was they simply did not care.

So based on my dealings with the KC along with breed clubs and other authorities I can see why people would think in this way.

> The Countryside Alliance could do it for hunting, so why not do it for the dogs?

And we know what happened there.
I'm afraid Polly..if someone in the media says so....then to Joe Public...it is fact.
I'm sorry to say this about my fellow human beings but... many are unable to make their own opinions, to seperate the wheat from the chaff and they suck up what they read in the tabloids as FACT. One newspaper owner has the power to shape this countrys opinion on just about everything.
Now if Media mogul Rupert Murdoch spoke out about puppy farming it would be stopped within the year. If some Celebs were seen to adopt rescue dogs and forgo their 'tea-cup' puppy staus symbols then the bottom would drop out of the Puppy farm market.

And as someone mentioned Plasma tvs..... yes people take more care choosing one than picking a puppy but have you been to your local tip recently....? Everything is disposible.....It is sad to say- but maybe this recession will make people think before they spend.

So Big Ears I expect we can see you at the protest on the 30th November outside the Leeds superstore? Protesting against puppy farmers and retail outlets being allowed to sell puppies and dogs to any passing person who suddenly finds they want a cute little doggie.

Oh  noooo, although I support the demonstration my dogs having her eyes blooming tested here on that day, aggghhhhh!!  I've waited 4 months for it to be done and don't want to wait any longer.

:) :) :) newfiedreams....(why cant we have a "thumbs up" emoticom???)

In my opinion Our dogs should not carry such advertisements. However I cannot comment too much since an organisation you mention reads internet forums and already I am under threat of "mention their name again and I'd be sued......" I believe I am not alone on this one either.

Editorial staff are not crazy about this but the organisation are not breaking any laws and as such feel they have a right to advertise. :-( They have paid up front so we can't not print.

We ran into this Polly. Marianne heard an ad for a retail store selling puppy farmed pups on a local radio station. A few of us complained to the station manager but he said he had to accept their ads. They weren't allowed to discriminate against a business on moral grounds if they weren't breaking the law. It's the law that has to change.

Hi Toolz,

On another thread which I started I have put the link to an online petition which I hope all CDers will pass to every family member, friend and foe and get them to sign it! Already the petition is circulating in the House of Lords and will be going to various MPS shortly.

I am told by Margaret Flack who is organising these protests and petitions that there is a lot of media interest from BBC, ITV and a number of national newspapers, as well as canine magazines and of course Our Dogs and I am sure Dog World too, as I was told that Chrissy from Dog World has spoken to Maggie. I think it needs all of us to be heard with "one voice" saying we do not want this situation to carry on, the comparison to the CA protest was not how effective it was, but the fact it was big enough to get media attention, which is as you say the thing that will help to stop this trade.

Hi Katt,

Regarding the ABS and bad breeders, this scheme is under review, and I have often found in the past that when the KC does not say much it doesn't mean it is doing nothing. As I posted earlier it has already removed 50 plus members from the ABS lists in the last few weeks.

Generally though and this particularly annoys me, if four dogs all pedigree are taken to a vet, the vet never asks if an hereditary health problem is found, which registration it came with. I could take a "pedigree" puppy from the Dogs4Us store, one from an ABS member registered with the KC, a puppy bought from a CDer and a rescue pedigree from the RSPCA to the vets, and there would be no way the vet could tell one from the other, so I have to ask, do they assume all four are registered with the KC? Do they assume that all four came from a bad breeder?

We all know that some hereditary problems can skip generations and even the best of us caring dog owners can produce a puppy which is not 100%. I have often admitted on this board that I have taken a 0/0=0 bitch to a 2/2=4 stud dog and produced a puppy who scored 11/18=29! Nothing I could find in either the bitches or the sires pedigree scored higher than 4/4=8, (2/3=5 in the bitches pedigree, and 4/4=8 in the sires).

> Polly, I'm just interested in your point of view with regard to Our Dogs and their allowing advertising from and about DL registrations?

I campaigned against the advertising of that organisation by Our dogs and eventually my breed club got them to stop the adverts.

Does this mean DL are advertising with Our dogs again, or is it just DL pups?

I certainly feel strongly that such pups should not be given the veneer of acceptability by being advertised through Our canine weeklies.

>Generally though and this particularly annoys me, if four dogs all pedigree are taken to a vet, the vet never asks if an hereditary health problem is found, which registration it came with. I could take a "pedigree" puppy from the Dogs4Us store, one from an ABS member registered with the KC, a puppy bought from a CDer and a rescue pedigree from the RSPCA to the vets, and there would be no way the vet could tell one from the other, so I have to ask, do they assume all four are registered with the KC? Do they assume that all four came from a bad breeder?

Exactly. We hardly ever ask where people got their dogs from (I do if someone comes in with a dal!), or whether they're registered.

Barbara, I haven't looked at the Our Dogs papers lately so I don't know...I contacted David Carvill a year or two ago about the adverts and got told they don't discriminate against anyone who advertises and that plenty of people were willing to buy registration that didn't need KC registration...so I guessed that was it! Great job if you got them to stop the advertising, well done!

Good point Polly.

If I stop and chat to other dog owners, I always ask people where they get their dogs from, especially if it's a really poor example of the breed. Friends of ours who we met on holiday told us about their 2 Cavaliers that they got at the same time (alarm bells started ringing straight away) then showed me a picture and they looked like small Welsh Springers. Needless to say, I just had to be nosy and asked where they got them from, turns out they were bought from a retail outlet in Essex and one of the pups had heart surgery at a very early age :-( We met the dogs as we've become really good friends with this couple and they were lovely dogs but looked nothing like good quality Cavaliers should. Now if only I'd met the couple earlier...they were shocked when I told them about puppy farming and had no idea that their boys were not even bred at the place they bought them from

Polly I am definitely going to try and get up to Leeds for the protest. I'll do anything I can to help stop puppy farming.