We started puppy training classes last nioght and the trainer said Alfies collar was getting too small. She recommended a half check chain but i forgot to ask her how to measure it.

What do you think of these collars?? If they are ok how do i measure it??

Alfie is a 20wk old boxer. His current collar length is 15 inches so the half check collar is this 15" when "closed" i.e pulled tight so the fabric ends meet or 15" when open as far as it will go??. Am slightly confused so want to get the right length??

WHY IS YOUR TRAINER RECOMMENDING A HALF CHECK COLLAR?  YOUR PUP IS ONLY 5 MTHS OLD.  SURELY YOUR TRAINER CAN HELP YOU TO GET HIM TO WALK NICELY WITHOUT REVERTING TO A HALF CHECK AT SUCH AN EARLY AGE. (IF THIS IS WHY SHE HAS RECOMENDED IT)   I FEEL THAT IF YOU USE THIS COLLAR AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE YOU WONT HAVE MUCH TO FALL BACK ON LATER IF HE REALLY DOES NEED SOMETHING A BIT FIRMER.  I WOULD TRY TO ENCOURAGE YOUR PUP TO WALK NICELY BY REWARDING HIM WHEN HE IS WALKING BY YOUR SIDE, BY GIVING HIM A TREAT AND LETTING HIM KNOW THAT THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT.  IF YOU KEEP DOING THIS H WILL WANT TO STAY CLOSE TO YOU AS IT IS WHERE HE GETS HIS TREATS.

The measurement should be when closed. i.e the two fabric ends meet. The easiest way is to take the dog to the pet shop with you and most will let you try them on. Alot of them are adjustable too. So you can get one that starts at 15 and will expand as he gets older. I always found that I had alot more control with a half check than a flat bed collar. Its easier on the dogs neck too.

I use a qtr chack collar and have done since pup was 5 months old. I always have it set a little to big so it doesn't choke him if he pulls, but I found the sound of the chain moving (along with reward based training) really helped alot.
I got the collor on recomndation as to the strength of the collar (I wanted a collar I could rely on to not break if pup pulled, even as a pup my dog was very big & strong), the collar I got is adjustable,  I got the size that would fit pup eg. pups neck was 18", collar would fit neck 18" -24". I think the sizes given are normally the size of the neck it will fit, not the lenghth of the collar.

My dogs have half check collars from 8 weeks old.

A half check once closed is no different to a buckle collar in it's action, but the collar is comfortably loose if the dog does not pull or when not on lead.

Personally I would use no other collar, especially as my breed have a ruff of coat around the neck and it makes it so much easier to put their leads on a half check than a flat collar.

> A half check once closed is no different to a buckle collar in it's action, but the collar is comfortably loose if the dog does not pull or when not on lead.
>

This is the first dog I've used a part check collar on and I am now a convert, as you say when dog is not pulling or not on a lead they are much looser than a flat collar, it must be so much more confortable for them.

I have a 10 week old pup who is getting used to her half check. All mine wear half checks.

So when the collar is closed its the same length as a normal collar is that right???

I was led to believe it wouldnt choke them if fitted correctly but the sound of the chain that is effective. My puppy does pull somewhat but i have just had knee surgery so what would constitute normal pulling to someone is too much for me at the moment with my knee. The trainer thought it would help.

Can anyone recommend a decent place to buy one, preferably an adjustable one as he is still growing??

When the collar is closed (to be blunt, when chain is pulled) it would be the same as a flat collar, i.e you should still be able to get 2/3 fingers in the collar without the dog being able to slip out of it. It should not choke the dog, that is not it's purpose.

I personally use them, but have seen alot recently which also have a 'clip' to fastern them. I wouldn't use them as I have seen flat collar with this fastening, and they do break, if a half check collar is fitted correctly, you should be able to fit it over the dogs head without adjusting it's size. I think nearly all half check collars you see are adjustable, so you should be able to get one which will last your pup for quite a while.

>So when the collar is closed its the same length as a normal collar is that right???

Yes - it should be no tighter than an ordinary collar, so cannot choke the dog.

ah many thanks.

Any recommendations of websites or places to buy decent ones??

Most decent pet shops should have them. With a pup its probably best to take him to the shop to try one on.

Carol

I've bought all mine collars from [url=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-Black-Leather-Half-Check-Dog-Collar-18-24_W0QQitemZ270294148402QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270294148402&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318]this[/url] guy on ebay. They are really good quality, leather half checks that also buckle on so can be adjusted to fit growing necks.

Mine 2 both have half checks and have done since 3months old.
I find them very safe if walking in traffic..as you have full control of your dog and they cant slip their collar.

For dogs that have heads smaller than the neck, the half-check is the safest option as they can't slip the collar, somrthing easily done on a flat collar.

I too have always used half check collars but because I have a long coated breed I find when the coat begins to come through it breaks the hair around the collar so I then move onto these made from hemp , I also advise all my puppy owners to progress onto them.
Here is the link if anyone is interested.

http://www.earthdog.com/hemp-products/decorative-hemp-line/martingale-decorative-collar

Roni~

My boy had a half check collar since he was 7 weeks old. Breeder recommended them and from what i have seen many people in the breed use them as well.
I have also seen that all Boxer owners i have come across use them as well.

Thanks everyone for your replies and links, we went to the pet shop today and purchased one.

Training by giving treats is not recomended at training classes as it will distract the other dogs as they would be able to smell the treat being given.So giving rewards with treats when not at classes to encourage a dog to walk at heel will just confuse the dog
half check collars are suitable for dogs of 5 months and if used properly as explained at training do not cause any harm or discomfort.

> Training by giving treats is not recomended at training classes as it will distract the other dogs as they would be able to smell the treat being given.So giving rewards with treats when not at classes to encourage a dog to walk at heel will just confuse the dog

??? ??? ???

What classes do you go to where you have experienced that ? We encourage treat training at our club, especially in the beginning, I know I would work better offered a reward & even if you do not use treats @ club, using them @ home will not confuse your dog at all. You can even combine treat & toy motivational training

Not giving treats because it may distract the other dogs sounds ridiculous to me. Positive reinforcement for puppies is so important, and treats are usually the most successful way of doing this. I agree that a half check is fine if correctly used and correctly fitted. If you agree with the training methods at your paricular class, then thats up to you, but IMO their methods are going to hold back your progress.

> SURELY YOUR TRAINER CAN HELP YOU TO GET HIM TO WALK NICELY WITHOUT REVERTING TO A HALF CHECK AT SUCH AN EARLY AGE.

A half check is an excellent way to start a puppy off as is a soft collar- both are kind and gentle and give a degree of contact without discomfort. The contact acts as a point of reference for the little chap's wandering mind...he needs to know where you are.
The important thing is you are training the pup to stay close by choice - not force - so that ultimately ( theoretically) they could be walked on a piece of cotton.

> Training by giving treats is not recomended at training classes

What?

Would you work for no reward? I will do anything that will encourage baby dogs to offer the required behaviour.

I have always used half check collars on my Boxers, even from their first puppy collar.

And have never had any trouble with pulling, there is no reason you cant  teach your chap to walk to heel wearing a half check

One of the main reason I use these collars, is the safety aspect,,  a dog cant slip their collar wearing on of these, and the amount of dogs/pups you see slipping normal collars where the owner do not fit correctly is to many... with a check , no room for error...

When closed (chain pulled ) the  nylon/leather  part of the collar should almost meet.

You can buy a cheap one form PTH to start with , and the beauty of them is they have a huge adjustment aspect.

i would go for something around 18"  to 22"   that should last you a while.

[url=]Training by giving treats is not recomended at training classes[/url]

Good job , my lot dont know that...I would be stuffed!!!

My boxer needs a new collar and has always had a flat leather collar with no issues but I'm wondering whether to change to a half check after reading this.  He doesn't pull and as his head is bigger than his neck he is not likely to slip a flat collar - what do people think will be best??

> I'm wondering whether to change to a half check after reading this.

Give it a go, the beauty of the boxer anatomy is big head - slim neck...ideal for a half check.

Also no fiddling with buckles to get them on and off just straight over the head.

True and as he is a big head :) not likely to slip a half check either.  His lovely other leather collar I managed to tear slightly and I don't want him to look scruffy lol.  That's one Xmas pressie sorted then!

ETA:  He's not here at the mo but what size should I order - does 17" sound about right?

Take him with you if possible ( or just a try on at PAH and then order online :-) ) there is adjustment but best be sure.

> Training by giving treats is not recomended at training classes as it will distract the other dogs as they would be able to smell the treat being given.So giving rewards with treats when not at classes to encourage a dog to walk at heel will just confuse the dog



That is the most silly thing I have heard in a long time!!!

All puppy training should be treat based for positive reinforcement and to be able to bribe the pup into submissive positions IE laying down or even staying still to stand as well.

If I went to a training class and they said no treats I would be completely gobsmacked and quite honestly worried as I would worry how they are gonna get my pup to do what they want without treats :(
I dont want my pup pulled round on a collar or whatever to make him do things just cause the trainer wont accept treats??

Treats are the way to a puppies heart, mind and soul, your trainer is stark raving bonkers to say no treats at classes!?

I've always used half check collar (from as young as 8 weeks) and swear by them.  Although the ones at 8 weeks are very dinky :-) 

"Training by giving treats is not recomended at training classes as it will distract the other dogs"

Several others have pointed out that treats ARE used where they train, as a reward.  I don't think anyone has specifically commented on the distraction aspect.  I took my pup through three different classes this summer and not only were the treats given to other dogs NOT a distraction but I think they actually reinforced the learning process.  With my pup anyway; he saw the other dogs getting treats and was much more willing to do what I wanted in order to get his as well.  I don't recall a single instance where one dog expected another owner to treat him as well as the person's own dog.  They were all on leash.

We were actually urged to do this at home.  Pup not responding, give the other dog a treat.  I only have one dog so I used a cat.  Oban SIT.  Not snappy enough, Sadie cat gets a treat, much quicker response from pup next time.

Thanks for everyones reply. We used the collar today and last night and what a difference!!! Im very impressed!!! ( and yes its fitted properly!! )

Ordered one today online - spoke to the woman on the 'phone and she was really helpful in advising me on the correct size but they make them to order if they haven't any in stock and if it doesn't fit I can send it back!!  Oooo he will look smart now :)
Good idea about the PAH thing for future reference tho!

> Training by giving treats is not recomended at training classes as it will distract the other dogs as they would be able to smell the treat being given.So giving rewards with treats when not at classes to encourage a dog to walk at heel will just confuse the dog

Wow - that's an unusual approach, is that at an APDT class?  Mine ate so much at puppy training classes that I had to recalculate breakfast and lunch on those days!!  As a result though I have a dog that can be handled by anyone and was, until I let it slide a bit during the summer, very well trained.  We are now about to start our Gold KC Good Citizens training and the thought of attempting it all without treats would fill me with horror!  I suspect the dog would be horror struck too   lol

Of course he can do much of this stuff now without treats but it's a great way to get their attention and help teach them what is expected.  I rarely go anywhere without a few treats in my pocket and never fail to give a few to people as well when I'm paying for things with pocket change (although it's usually just the crummy bits left) - lovely!!

Most of the dogs at our obedience/KC classes thrived on the treat system and would watch each other being fed, waiting for their turn to do the right thing. If any get dropped it's a great way to practise the LEAVE instruction although many of the youngest dogs didn't like 'strange' treats much and preferred their own. 

The only time we have an issue is at ringcraft classes if some handlers fling treats for their dogs to watch.  However, it does happen from time to time in the ring so it's all good practise.

Ok got the collar in the post today - fits lovely.  Daft question but where do most people attach the ID tag to?  Do you attach it to the bit you attach the lead to or one of the other rings at the end of the chain????

I attach their tags to one of the end rings. I've found if I attach them to the ring the lead attaches to, then at some stage I'll clip the lead to the split ring of the tag rather than the solid ring of the collar :-D

> Daft question but where do most people attach the ID tag to?  Do you attach it to the bit you attach the lead to or one of the other rings at the end of the chain????

I put the ID tags in the D-ring that hold the chain to the collar, not the ring the lead clips too (I worry the lead-clip will damage the tags as it's a very heavy brass clip, or the that the tags will get caught in the chain & pulled off). Before setting off for a walk I make sure the Id tags are on the bottom of the D-ring, under the chain, as they have a habbit of working up to the top part of the D-ring, above the chain and I worry they'll get caught up (gosh, I worry about everything!!!).

Thankyou both!!!  Just wrestling trying to get it off the other collar!!  Will have no fingernails left in a sec :)

>I don't recall a single instance where one dog expected another owner to treat him as well as the person's own dog.

lol you should see my greedy guts - he sits staring at people salivating, ive had to stop people giving him treats because he expects everyone to treat him !!!

Do not attach to the ring you clip lead on as this will cause the chain to hang making it easy to get a foot through or get it caught and negate the positive effect of a nice loose collar.

I always attach it to one of the side rings furthest away from me when I walk them.

All done - one broken teaspoon later!

Where did you get your collar from?   I need new ones but can only find boring colours, black red or blue.  I'm looking for something a bit different, either nice colours or patterns.

Any ideas?

All mine have these (http://www.collarways.co.uk/khxc/index.php?app=gbu0&ns=catshow&ref=m-d-Combo-Collars).

Esme had one as a puppy (Goldie) and by adjustment is still wearing the same one even tho' she is now fully grown, so very good value me thinks! Altho' now I see the moo cow pattern i think I may have to invest in one of those!

They're really nice collars, but I'm wanting ones with the chain.

If you put TRPD Pet Craft Project into google(or other search engine)you will find a site where all the profits go to small sized anima/dog rescues Not allowed to put a direct link as it is a forum based site-but it's aims are simply to help unwanted pets

They act the same way as the chain ones, just don't make the noise, or go rusty if your dogs are constantly wet like mine.

Typical - 1st time wearing new collar, fell in canal   I should have used the old one!

I personally prefer the leather with the brass chain.  They don't go rusty and providing you look after them, will last for many years.