if you are considering buying a puppy as a present for Christmas for someone then click on this LINK and read and take it in :)

i was not thinking of getting a pup for christmas, but was interested (well nosy) i can not believe people still think about getting pups as presents, surprise ones at that. imagine giving a child a pup, they will play with it for 10 mins then move on to the next present, so if anyone is thinking it, forget it. THEY ARE FOR LIFE

I had a phone call yesterday from a "lady" looking for a pup for a christmans present, I tried to advise her that no reputable breeder will sell a pup at Christmas that they would keep the pup till after the New Year, well you should have heard what I got from this person, all I said to her was its not fair on a young puppy going into strange surroundings that are very busy over the xmas/newyear period. She did me a favour and hung up the phone on me, it really annoys me when some people just will not take advice from us, so why phone in the first place !!!!

Not only do I find the idea of giving a live creature for Christmas horrible, I would wish to warn every one not to give your dog special treats or over feed at Christmas. If you are having a family party put the dog(s) out of the way somewhere quite. Let no one feed and watch the doors are not left open. Oh and enjoy the drink & chocolate yourself do not give to dogs and remember that you may need the heating up because you are in your party gear, your dog can't take a layer off. Ja:)kie

Don't forget general security, too.

*Plants --- some plants are toxic --Pointsettia - for one
*Christmas prezzies under the tree --- wrapping and ribbons and even food, oh my :rolleyes:

Guests who like to feed Fido all sorts of treats behind your back :rolleyes: Including Chocolate, sweets, cookies/biscuits, cooked bones, etc...

Kids running and screaming around in joy
I'm sure others can think up more holiday 'excitement' to be ware of ;) :D

hey!! IM getting my girl as a Xmas gift for my self! ;-) But you are all right, I don't understand why people dump there pets after Xmas, when they don't look like cute puppy's any more, People in Europe call us Brits "A nation of dog lovers", hard to see that some times, :-( Far to much puppy farming going on this time of year, I only wish there were harsher laws regarding this, or perhaps some way of making it law for an owner to micro chip there dog/puppy/cat. even if that puppie /dog is rehoused at a later date, its very easy to change micro chip information, what do you all think.

I know what you mean, micro chipping should be made a must for all dog owners. Also Christmas is sadly a time for dogs to be purchased only to be dumped later when they 'get a bit big'.

But then there is the other side. I simply wish one now for the following reasons.

I had a Dalmation for many years, a long time before the film made them popular but trying to find one now without people thinking I am also jumping on this so called bad wagon of admirers is frustrating.

Our Dillon was a rescue dog and we loved him to bits. He died over 4 years ago at the age of 12 and only now do I feel it is time to get another dog. Its just a coincedence that it is growing nearer to christmas and also that I want a dalmation as that is what I am used to. Some enquiries I have made have been treated with huge scepticism (which I fully understand)but this gets me nowhere.

Some of us are genuine and not after a dog for christmas alone. The one we get will be taken care of like one of the family as that is what he will be. Not spoilt you understand but everything he needs to be healthy and a bouncing happy dog.

wish me luck

thanks for reading Dallover

Has anyone noticed there is nowhere for micro chipping info on the
new registeration forms from the kennel club.

Hi heelerkay! Long time no see! :)

But , Dallover ..if *you* were the breeder what would you do?

You have two couples appraoch you for puppies ..it is just before Christmas .....they both say they have had Dalamations before , their homes both check out ..which would you choose as the long term home rather than a puppy for Christmas?

If I was breeding I would not sell any pups just before Christmas ...even if it meant not breeding from that season ...unless , of course , I had a waiting list of people that I had already checked out..

Melody - Hope you manage to get a pup soon though :)

Hi Melody,

Yes I do see what you mean, I have checked out homes for the CPL in the past and that is why I thought ALL breeders checked them out. Hence the frustration about the location. How could I possibly ask a person in Scotland to check out my home 350 miles away. I would not be viewing the adds at all if the locale was evident at first glance. So to actually see them and not be able to give one a home is upsetting.

On the other subject of whom would I choose if both of two sets of parties checked out just before christmas, well how do they check out better after if they BOTH check out prior? Perhaps post christmas offers of a home is better to make sure they are good owners and not just for christmas but one can never be absolutley sure if one has never met them. A certain amount of trust has to come into it from both parties. If they both check out before christmas then one has to go with that. If a breeder has cause to be suspicious of any one of these parties you mention just because it is christmas then they should be suspicious about that type all year round, dont you agree?

But yes I do basically agree with you. Of course the timing of a puppy entering its new life is crucial. 8 weeks is optimum, any longer than that is said by the knowledgeable to be less then perfect. Lots will disagree I expect but any longer than 8 weeks without settling into a new home and accepting where it is is where it will stay is not too good.

So again one has to weigh up the pros and cons, should this prospective buyer, who checks out and seems as good as I want as a new family for my puppies be withheld for two weeks over christmas just to make sure? Will I and the puppy be better off over these two weeks?

Lastly I would never be a breeder, I could not give them up for anything and that would not be at all practical for me or the puppies.

Kind regards
Jackie

Jackie,
The advice about the age to get a pup is based on the possibility that the pup won't have all the required socialisation in it's breeders home. this would perhaps be true of a commercial breeder.

A breeder who breeds a litter infrequently can usually be relied on to provide any pup that stays past 8 weeks the required care and socialisation and training.

I have usually had at least one pup stay with me to say even 16 weeks, due to new owners holiday commitments, Christmas, timeing of a puppy being exported etc.

In fact a pup I sent to Australia at 14 1/2 weeks, had to spend a month in Quarantine, and after coming out went to it's first dog show 2 days later, and won Best Baby Puppy in show.

I had carried it around in a holdall from six weeks, knowing that it would spend a month in quarantine, I ensured it had a head start in geting to know the outside world.

If you find a breeder who has a litter due or just born the weeks leading up to getting the pup are used by you both to establish a relationship. That is how many puppy buyers become a breeders extended family. Some people don't want such a close relationship with the breeder, but it happens with at least one pup in each litter in my experience.

Hi again

A trip to Australia?? And there was me worried about giving it an over long car journey, just goes to show how people can think differently.

I understand the need for good socialisation etc. Why would someone book a holiday and a pup at the same time? I know which one I would cancel at the drop of a hat.

Different strokes for different folks, makes the world go round.

Thanks again

Jackie

Hi All I was very worried about breeding when we did ,because it makes the pups duo 3 weeks before X mas
but I decided that we had already enough intrest in pups early in the year when the DAM was due to to be in season.
& consulted the stud dog owners on the worries of having pup's due for new homes so close to X-Mas> only to agree that you only sell
with your instinct tothe best homes that you can regardless of the time off year

Karl

Availability of pups in my breed (only 96 bred last year) is a bit patchy, so sometimes there is feast sometimes famine!

Hi Barbara, are you talking to me, JH, if so I'm not with you, don't think I mentioned age, at least not on this thread. I did on another boare but I was talking about puppies who had not had the benifit of being bought up in a home, in fact think that is what I said. Anyway I was saying much what you are, but not on here. If your not talking to me, sorry, Jackie is a common name. Ja:)kie

Ops! I see I'm not the only Jackie, how big headed can you get. Grovel, Grovel.

jackie

with head in corner facing the wall

No Jackie Dalllover is also a Jackie! I was refering to the oft quoted ideal age to get pups. It seems this is the latest vet and behaviorist mantra, that if your puppy doesn't come to you by 8 weeks it somehow won't bond with you or be right. :D

True if the poor baby hails from a puppy farm, and is deprived of proper attention and stimulus :(

Hello again

I was not saying Brainless (your name, not a comment....grin) that the puppies would not be right, I was saying where is the more harm. Keeping the puppies for another two weeks till after xmas to make sure the already agreed buyers (above thread) are correct or letting them go at the optimum age?

As I said, its all pros and cons. One has to go with ones own instincts and do it that way. Each buyer and puppy is different and one will only ever know in retrospect.

regards
Jackie Dallover

I had a wolfhound litter once who were 8 weeks about two days before Xmas. I refused to let any go to their new homes until after Jan 2nd. A couple of people kicked up about it, easy solution, they didnt have a puppy from me at all! If they cant wait a few more days for the good of the puppy then they shouldnt be having one at all. They are YOUR pups, so YOU make the decision when they leave!!!

Hi Phillippa

Oh too right too, if you were not satisfied with the prospectvie owners then of course that is what you must do. So to prove they were satisfactory you made them wait a week as a test of their sincerity. If that is what proves it for you perhaps this should be practised no matter what time of year it is, just to be sure.

I think (maybe I am wrong) that some breeders would know who was not going to come back and refuse them a puppy anyway. Another words, if it wasn't xmas could you have chosen there and then who was going to come back and who wasnt? Was there a clue that they only wanted the dog for xmas? (or birthday or aniversary or another celebration) Would you practice this if you knew it was for a birthday, you know ask them to come back after the birthday? Something to peruse on. You said a couple of people 'kicked up' about it. Could you not see they were unsuitable before you put this 'test'?

All I am saying is this. You have to be sure in whichever way you know how. But presents are presents whether it be for a birthday, xmas or whatever. Some of us are genuine and yes I would wait till after xmas but I would also be sad to do so

regards
Jackie Dallover

You are quite right, assessing the potential of the homes offered is the hardest and most stressful part of breeding. You spend the rest of the year worrying about it, and even after that things can go wrong, but usually if they have made the first year together barring a disastrous change of family circumstances, the match will last.

That is why I most like to have puppies booked in advance as it gives you time to get to know the owners, and if I am in the least bit unsure I will refuse a puppy.

The worst thing is if there is still a pup left when they are old enough to go to their homes. You then are faced with having to make up your mind about theri suitability quickly, even then I try to find a reason for them to wait a week, say to get things ready for the pup.

We rescued our Dalmation as he was due to be PTS. The vet contacted us as asked if we could foster him as he could not bare to do it. That was that. We had young girls at the time, one cat, two rabbits and a cockatiel. Did we have to worry about the three year old Dal, no way.

The electricity man came one day and was met with this site. One large dog bed with a very large dalmation in it, was asleep but awoken with the doorbell, upon the dalmation was a black cross siamese (rescued) cat asleep. Next to the dog were two white rabbits, also half asleep and a cockatiel on the edge of the dog bed. (quite normal to us)

He was stunned for at least 20 seconds staring at this site. Then eventually he said....'no one will believe me'.

OOpps I diverse. What I mean is that I have never had to get a puppy from a breeder before and find it exciting, difficult, lots of research to be done and so very time consuming. But I hasten to add that I do not begrudge a moment. I will get the special friend we seek eventually no matter how long it takes. Not much really for a good many years to come with a new family member.

Also yes it must be very hard for you, I had no idea really. I, so wrongly thought that breeders bred for profit, oh how wrong I was now that I have read lots about it. I dont think I could do it to be frank so I am full of admiration for the good one amongst you.

regards
Jackie Dallover

Unfortunately as you have found in your research, there are those who view dog breeding as supplying a product. Whatever is in vogue at the moment. :( :( It is then the tireless folk in Rescue that pick up the pieces. Dally rescue had a hard time of it over the two films in last few years. It is refreshing that you are not prepared to encourage these puppy farmers by being tempted to buy a pup from them.

Hi again Brainless

We went to two dogs home today, nothing suitable unfortunately. Most were not recommended for us having cats and a usual visitor of three years.

We took dog food and cat litter along to pop into the wanted bins there and it was so sad to see all the dogs and cats who have been abandoned.

Got attacked by one cat which made me laugh till I cried as I had had my hand stuck in all the dogs cages without so much as a nip.

Will keep on truckin'

regards
Jackie dallover

Well hello Jackie, thanks for your reply.I have been breeding Wolfhounds for the last 21 years and in that time I have had two returned. One through a marriage breakup, and one because they hadnt realised how boisterous Wolfie pups can be. If anybody wants one of my pups, they go through a truly third degree. I dont need telling that I should suss the new owners out, in the particular case in question the homes were fine, the people were just not prepared to wait a few more days, so the answer was.......wait, or you dont have a pup, ...quite simple really. I was sorry to disappoint them, but they were told from the very first that a pup would NOT be changing homes at Xmas. Perhaphs they thought they could talk me round.....wrong. My pups always come before other peoples dissapointment. Take it or leave it...thats the way I am, and always will be.

Hi again Phillipa

Yes I can see all of that now. As I said before, I truly did not know that breeders were so caring, not that I thought they were slap happy either. If you grabbed the average person off the street, most would think that breeders do it for the money.

So with that in mind, when confronted with a bombardment of questions, most will take umbridge at this as they think they are doing you a favour by taking the pup off your hands and giving you hundreds of pounds taboot.

I was not that bad in my way of thinking but am surprised by the very caring attitued of the breeders encountered here in this forum and I must admit its lovely, simply that, lovely.

I must also admit that it has made me a little nervous to approach one now, will I say the wrong thing, will I sound too eager, not eager enough. Do I ooze enthusiasm or friendly and laid back. Confusing. Have I got the right bed, dog food and even vet. All these things are contributing to the difficulties facing not only the breeder but the genuine buyer.

I have no problem with questions and as many as want to be asked. A home visit is welcome, a look through Dillons (our beloved dalmation that has now passed) vet records, a chat with the vet, anything like that but do I offer these things or wait to be asked. No one likes rejection, specially when you think you are the right person but one question answered wrongly can put the kybosh on the whole deal. When I get a dog and have it for a few months, I will know the dog better than the breeder and have to be trusted to do the right thing for that particular dog. Breeds have different ways and individuals of that breed (like humans) are different too. So one must be adaptable to make him/her the most comfortable he/she can be.

Now I have garbled on a bit here, will a prospective breeder be prepared to hear all that and not think me mad? Do I sound too overbearing or what? As I said, hard to know what to say, so I will just be myself and leave the rest to two way trust.

regards
Jackie Dallover

A friend of mine when they were trying to get theri first dog were amazed at the third degree :D :D

Her other half said to her "for gods sake we only want to get a dog!!!"

Now when she has had occasion to help with rehoming a dog, she has been worthy of the ~Spanish inquisition. :P

Oh my word, good for her. It really is only till you want a dog that you realise all the ins and outs of it.

As I said before, I have vetted homes for the CPL and I left nothing unturned. I even opened cupboards and advised what to remove, all sorts of things. But you see the cats there are free so we didnt want any Tom (not a joke .....grin) Dick or Harry getting one.

So when one goes to a breeder whether it be cats or dogs and one is willing to part with hundreds of pounds for it, one assumses (quite wrongly, I see that now) that that in itself it proof enough.

See how daft we buyers can be?

regards
Jackie

Made that mistake in selling a pup from my first litter, the people were obviously well off. They wanted to be rid of the pup at 11 months, as their adult daughter who walked the dog had left home, but wanted to recoup full puppy price. I put a prospective puppy owner in touch with them, but told them no way would they get the same price as for a baby pup. At first they wouldn't budge, until they realised that they would not be able to sell her on for breeding, as I had endorsed her registration 'progeny not for registration' (a lot of breeders do this to ensure that if theri stock is bred from, then the new owners have to do the proper health tests, and show they will do things properly, before the breeder will lift this clause). This was just before Christmas!

They brought her back to my home where they sold her to her new owner at about £100 less than puppy price, and even had the cheek to count the money. Which was quite generous of them, as a rescue would have set them back just a donation.

Good grief, I cant believe that!!!. Not really to compare a living thing with furniture but did they take their daughters bed, wardrobe etc back to the shops as she didn't need them anymore?

Wow I have never heard of such a thing. I am thinking oh so long and hard about this puppy adopting as I know that once the choice is made that is it. I never considered giving back one of my daughters after they were born no matter what!!! That is how it should be looked at.

Sounds like these people were trying to take advantage of your good breeders nature.

Never ceasing to be amazed.......

Jackie Dallover

Dallover, since your first post mentioning your dillon, and how you felt one outlet was a puppy farm, you have endeared yourself to me, and could have one of my pups any day!!!

You would need to shave them, straighten their tails and paint on the spots though :P :D :)

Just be yourself, and I am sure your love for your dog, your well thought out preperations will engender a breeders trust. Tell them how nervous you are.

Aww brainless, how could I shave a wee dog and paint spots on it just for looks. Now a human is different.

If I have a things for spots perhaps I should get into the company of people with measles, but will they fetch the ball back as well....or lie upsidedown near the fire and let the cat sit on them? :)

Mind you its a thought...........naaaaaaaaaaaaaa gimmie a doggie anyday.

Big grins and I will take your advice, be myself.......ooooh dear.......:)

Jackie

Great minds thinking alike yet again Phil, I did exactly the same last year pups ready to go 2 days before Xmas, everyone was told right from the start that none would be available until after New Year, luckily nobody objected, but if they had they would not have got a pup from me.

well said brainless
we already decided that our pups would stay untill after x-masss if we could not find for them proper perants
before X-Mas

kartl

Yes Karl, that was what we said, keep till after if you cannot find proper (as you call it) prior. Making that distinction is the hard bit. How does one know?

regards
Jackie Dallover

Well I would always err on the side of cution, the pup is better off an extra two weeks in the familiar surroundings of it's birth home, than possibly having added stress by going to it's new home when things are unusually busy, as it is best for them to make the adjustment into a routine. Even if I were more than happy with the new home I would still prefer for the benefit of all concerned to keep th pups until after the festivities. :D

The idea of an optimum time doesn't really enter into it if the breeder is doing things properly. though I would find it shattering to give the4 indidividual attention to all of a large litter, but it rarely happens that all pups stay to an advanced age, or that all go at once. It is much less traumatic for Mum too when her babies leave over a spoace of two or three weeks.

Another good point brainless, or perhaps we should call me that. I never thought of the mum, how could I forget her? She has to see her babies disappear and yes I suppose it is far better to see them go bit by bit rather than all in one go.

See, we live and learn and I am certainly learning here, thankyou.

regards
Jackie Dallover

Hi Jackie
I agree with your comments, and sympathize with you and how you must be feeling as a *genuine* home. :(
However, I must say that IMHO puppies are equally happy and settle as well into their new homes at 10wks as 8wks. In fact I will go further and say that IF the pup were 8wks before christmas then it would be in the pup's best interests to stay with the breeder until AFTER christmas, as settling a puppy takes a lot of love & patience and needs to happen in quiet, calm surroundings. :) Christmas is NOT a quiet & calm time and IMO puppies could be greatly disturbed by being introduced to a strange enviroment at this time, no matter how genuine or loving you are.
You also mention that 8wks is the optimum bonding time, while this may be true there is also a lot of evidence that pup's go through a distinct *fear period* between 7 & 10 weeks and anything that upsets them during this time could have an adverse effect on their development. :(
I'm not getting at you at all so please don't take this the wrong way I'm just trying to explain why I think that ANY responsible breeder would not part with a pup before christmas no matter how excellent your home.
Nicky
P.S. Good luck in your search for your little spotty friend! ;)

Hi

No no I do not think you are getting at me , not at all.

Is there such a thing as too much research. Some sites say this is the best time, some books say other, what does one do with so much information and all conflicting.

People know themselves and how we would be with a new puppy no matter what time of year it is. OK some people may not be quite as responsible at xmas as others but that makes a bad buyer and should be spotted no matter what time of year it is.

Take the point of good people, they have organised their home, thought about it a long time, checked out the breeders, done some research and eventually telephoned a breeder. Viewed the puppy, checked out their vets, made appointments for a checkup. Go to pick up the pup and is then refused because of the time of year. Now please tell me that they should not feel insulted. What made the breeder do this? If there is an instinct not to allow the pup to go at that time then he should not allow the pup to go to these people at any time.

As appose to people who make a quick phonecall and state they want the pup. They are refused because of the time of year, get insulted and go elsewhere.

Big difference between the scenarios. So it is up to the breeder to find out which one the buyer is and he should know this no matter what time of year it is.

You could start to make breeders feel they are unworthy if they let a pup go christmas week to people he trusts 100% (or as good as it gets) Principles are a good thing but sometimes barking about them does more harm.

I have been at this since August and thought it would all be done by end of Sept. But because I am trying to do it right, learn, read, make sure, the time has rushed past and now is near xmas. Perhaps one should start to buy a new pup in the first three months of the year if they are going to do it right or its too late.

regards
Jackie

Hi Dallover, NO reputable breeder will let purchasers turn up at Xmas and THEN tell them they cant take the pup on Xmas day. It is all discussed and agreed beforehand. If you ever decide to breed, you will find out that people are not always as they seem, and its not always very easy to pick out the good from the bad. Sometimes even really experienced breeders have been fooled and pups have been purchased under false pretences, and then passed on to third parties.

Hello again phillipa

I was not thinking of the actual day at christmas, I was talking about the month of December which seems to be a no go area for purchasing a pup.

As I said, I have vetted people and homes before but that was whilst doing voluntary work for the CPL. I suppose its more nerve racking when you have your hearts in the puppies best interests.

I would not dream of picking up a pup christmas day, does anybody really expect that?

regards
Jackie

Afraid there are some who do, and some who will deliberately breed (commercial puppy farmers) to satisfy this whim. You personally wouldn't dream of such a thing, but there are those who want the puppy under the tree with a box and a bow!

Did you see the first live disney Dalmation film, sweet WHICKER basket of puppies, not sign of containing pen, paper and piddles and poos, just the little whizz from whizzer for comic effect! :P

There are actually people who haven't even considered a pups physical processes, feeding schedule etc!

When pups are due to be ready around Christmas, most breeders will advertise their pups as not ready until after Christmas, even if that means they will be 10 or 12 weeks old, and if they can't or don't want to run them all on as long as that in the breeds with huge litters, then they will wait until the bitch's next season to breed.

yes I see that now. I do not want a pup for christmas, I want it last August but never mind. I will keep going till I find the right one.

thanks again

Jackie

And on t6hat fron, how are we doing??? Did you contact the breed clubs??

Hi brainless, sorry to take so long to reply. I did indeed. Spent most of Sunday chatting to one lady who sadly had no pups left but we had a right old chat about her dogs and ours. That was most fun.

Chatted to another who was quite local, found her via the kennel club but again we had missed the litter.

Trying again tomorrow to another one in Milton Keynes which is only about 120 miles away so fingers crossed.

Found a few older dogs (rescue) and was quite happy to rehome one, but they were all in scotland, all four of them. BUT if this Milton Keynes one doesn't show fruition then off to bonny scotland it is for me. Never been there so that should be nice. Just grab a B&B for the night and come back next day.

Wish me luck, can't wait. Got all the things ready. I say, Brainless, what do you think of this 'crate' idea. My husband thinks it sounds cruel, what do you think as I have come to trust your judgement.

regards
your friend
Jackie

Hi Jackie,

Sorry to butt int your message to Brainless but I thought I'd tell you my experience of using a crate and what happened when some friends of mine didn't use a crate :(

We've got 3 children, aged between 2 and nearly 7, and a 11mth old Cocker spaniel puppy. We've had a crate for Holly since we brought her home as we've got lots of childrens toys and cables in the lounge and we wanted to keep Holly safe. We've never had any problems with her chewing the childrens toys, unless we've not picked them up off the floor and she's snatched them whilst running past!! She's never chewed any electric cables and the furniture remains teeth mark free :)

My friend, who also has a Cocker spaniel, declared crates to be cruel and never used one. Within 6wks the puppy had pulled the wallpaper off the walls behind the sofa, chewed the bottom of a beautiful writing desk and eaten through the TV aerial 3 times. Unfortunately the puppy chewed through the kitchen door when she was 6mths old and had to be pts as she'd suffered terrible internal injuries from the wooden shards she'd swallowed.

We put our puppy in her crate overnight, when we're going out and when we/she are eating. She also uses it as a safe place to retire to when we have children visiting as she can get a bit frightened by 15pairs of dancing feet and 30 squealing voices :D

Crates have many uses and I wouldn't be without mine.

HTH,

Fiona
x x x

I didn't have one for years, but finally succumed to getting one at a dog show, as I wanted the loo, and the dogs weren't allowed. (I had been toying eith the idea of having one).

Mine now sits permanently in the corner of the kitchen. It is open at all times, and the dogs take turns using it as a den, in preference to the dog basket that is next to it under the kitchen table.

They are invaluable when travelling, especially if staying in a hotel or B&B as you have somewhere safe to put the dog when you leave the room. This means there is no danger of dog escaping when staff clean the room, and also no chance of the dog causing damage. Many places that wouldn't take the dog in the room will allow one in a crate. The same goes if you are camping, as the crated dog is much safer in the tent or awning, as can't chew it's wayout, and can be left in Fresh air, rather than in the Caravan, while you wash and have breakfast etc.

I have never routinely shut my dogs in one, but when I went to Holland, I bought a larger crate that would take too in comfort, and was pleased to find on returning from breakfast that they were good as gold, didn't even bark when the chambermaids came in to tidy up!

It is best to train the puppy/dog that the crate is a nice place by feeding it in there, and only shutting the door for a few minuted, say when pup ready to sleep anyway. Chances are a puppy will be used to a crate or puppy pen at the breeders, and it wohn't be that new an experience.

Also if you are decorating, having a delivery, or having visiting children (who might pester or be frightened of the dog) it is somewhere safe for the dog to be.

You can even buy the folding crates now with one side sloping, so that it better fits in a car (important with the larger size crate).

Stock Nutrition do this type. Worth measuring the height and width of the narrowest part of your estate/hatch! You may find the straight one fits fine. Minimum size for a Dally in my opinion would be the 36inch long x 24wide x 27 high, and I advise the two dor model, with door in long side and short end. there will be some situations where it is convenient to have it in short end, and in the boot of an estate, maybe in the long end.

Barbara,
I will vigorously agree with you about the wonderful benefits of crating for travel and especially camping :D :D :D :D
The first few times that we camped with our dogs, it was a relief to be able to place them safely in their crate together, 'lock' the zippers to the tent, and tramp to the bath-house. I'd hate to have returned to a hole in the tent side because Samma smelled a squirrel on the other side :D :D :D As the 'girls' got older, I became more relaxed. :)

Also with our first 'cabin' tent, Samma learned to open the zippers. They were in a T-formation with a Center zipper coming down meeting two other zippers on the bottom. She could stick her nose in and wiggle the three loose from one another :rolleyes: I woke up one night, feeling something 'wrong'. When I called Chienne, she came bounding in the door (hole) eagerly happy to see me. Hubby had to go find Samma. She honestly got lost and couldn't find her way back in the dark :P

She didn't do anymore exploricating after that due to crating her at night. Before we went camping again, we got a new tent that was 'samma-proof'. The old one was having 'troubles' not leaking on hubby's head :D :D :D

exploricating ?

Is this typo or a cross between exploring and investigating ...I haven't seen it before and couldnt find it on dictionary.com

Apologies if it IS a typo ...put it down to curiosity on my part

:)

Melody