My daughter has recently had her teeth examined by an orthadonist, as her dentist says she needs braces to correct her bite.  The O (can't be bothered to type it again) said she was only a '3' on a scale of 1 to 5 (being the worst), and therefore doesn't qualify for NHS treatment.  They said the total cost would be just over £3K!!!  My son will need looking at by an O as well, so when he has been seen, we may well have a total bill of £6.5K to foot!  I can't believe this.  New regulations came in about a year again apparently, and the government is trying to cut costs in dental treatment.  Probably needs it to fund the banks (sorry, blood boiling).  Is anyone else in this predicament?

My sons teeth was measured and he was JUST within the guidelines, so has braces.
Considering he had one tooth sticking out that looked AWFUL and he was only just in the regs then I find the regs DISGUSTING :( :( :(
He is allowed 3 warnings for breakages, or dirt teeth then they are taken off!!! But as yet,he has had them on since since April time he has had no warnings.
Ijust hope, when Sam gets al his adult teeth, he will be within the regs as he has 'rabbit' teeth!!!
I really feel for you as if I have to pay for Sam, I really couldnt afford to :(
Lea :)

Gosh!!

Don't children get free treatment anymore?

( you can tell I haven't been for a while....can't afford to! )

they still get free treatment, but the 'powers that be' have decided if the teeth arnt So many millimeters out then they shouldnt get treatment on the NHS, and the millimeters are quite alot in the sceme of things!!!
Lea :)

Thats awful to hear of this. I needed braces and had them fitted when i was 13. All free on the NHS. Though i'm sure from what you've said i would be outside of the guidelines and would have to pay for it now..

It's embarrassing because the receptionist has phoned me about 4 times in the last week, asking if we were going ahead, and trying to tie us into a 10% APR loan to cover treatment costs.  Thing is, I have to wait until our son has been examined, because I think his teeth are a lot worse, and if he doesn't qualify, we would have to put his treatment ahead of our daughter's (we can't afford both unfortunately, we are desperately trying to save for possible uni fees).  This is an absolute nightmare.  If our dentist had thought of referring her two years ago (she is 14 now), she would have had free treatment.

My daughter had awful teeth and we paid for her Orthodontic treatment, well not exactly us but MIL did.  It was around 2500 but she had her brace off just over a year ago and the results are stunning, I'm so pleased.  She's 15 now and it's given her confidence that I could only dream of having.  Well worth it for her.

On the back of what craigles said, I have had ALOT of orthdontic treatment (including having a major op on my jaw as well) and that made my confidence go from rock bottom to ALOT higher!!!!!
This cost the NHS about £20,000 at the least, but to me it was priceless as I am confident enough now to go out there.
You cannot put a cost on confidence, and the first thing you see of people are their eyes and teeth, so to cut the funds to sort out the teeth is awful.
They should cut costs else where before that!!! (and nope I am not going to say which ones should be cut LOL)
Lea :)

It is the same here! The funding for school dentists was 90% withdrawn a couple of years ago. Not only is it orthodontic but everything else too! No check up's, fillings extractions...........
I have to agree though, the confidence factor is pricless.

Karen :(

I'm really sorry for all you Mum's whose children aren't getting free orthodentic treatment because mine did many years ago, but it has always been for the worst cases and not just for cosmetic reasons.
Unfortunately, there is just not enough money to pay for what everybody wants.  I'd be more than happy to contribute to your childrens' teeth if there was enough money in the purse but just like running the country is just like runing a home - everyone can only have what money there is to spend if the family is not going to get into debt!  At the moment in this country, there are more people taking out of the pot, both health service and social security system, than are putting in, and until there is a radical change, there will always be some who feel hard done by. :(
I'd like to see both the health service and social security systems set up just for basic needs and if people want more, then they have to fund it themselves and not expect everyone else to provide for them.  I'd like to drive a nice new Volvo Estate because it would give me the space and comfort that I deserve and think that I should be entitled to :) but I can only afford an Astra and so have to make do with that! :)

Couple of points one you can get a smile savers account. The orthodontist agrees an amount that is fixed, you pay into a savings type account and it pays out as and when needed. 2. I went for a second opinion to the hospital (referred by our "ordinary" dentist") they said leave him alone (he was about 6 or 7) and they kept an eye on him for about 3 years and his teeth sorted themselves apart from 1 extraction to give the others more space. He's 21 now lovely straight smile.
Sam had about 8 out as a v. small child (first aged 18 months) his bite was so tight it wore away the back of the top teeth and he kept getting abcesses. Last ones out (6) he was about 5. Then orthodontist and finally hospital again and no more treatment on his adult teeth. Always go for a National Health second opinion.
The money we had put into his smile saver plan was refunded when he did not require treatment.

I think this is correct.........We have to be prepared to pay up and that is that.
There is a mentality that 'these things should be covered', it's us who should be pro-active in looking after our own!
Why indeed should the tax payer be responsible for our childrens teeth, especially when it is to do with cosmetic issues.
Karen ;)

It's called the NHS system and that is what myself and my husband are paying our national insurance contributions for.  Children have always been entitled to free dentistry.  If it was purely cosmetic purposes, then fair enough.  But if your dentist insists they need treatment - then the NHS should pay.

> It's called the NHS system and that is what myself and my husband are paying our national insurance contributions for

No your NI contributions are for your Retirement Pension, Job Seekers & Incapacity benefits. The NHS funding comes from Taxes the government collects. The NHS has never been funded from NI Contributions.

We do need to take resposibility.
It is up to us to pay for and look after our own, anything else I think is a bonus not always a right.

Karen

We lost the NHS Dentist when she went private in about 1990's so I have been paying Denplan since then. Sam was covered by NHS as he had a problem when his milk teeth came through. But even so I pay tax at about (two of us £850) a month and we dont get a lot for it. We have private medical, Denplan and I even pay s/orders for the boys contact lens. I know there adult but 1 is a student and 1 does not get a lot of money as a Mountainbiker, and I prefer that he can see where he is going.
If a child has a bite/tooth problem I dont see that its purly cosmetic and I think dentist treatment for kids in school should be on NHS. Personal view (you can have some of our tax money on it).

> I think this is correct.........We have to be prepared to pay up and that is that.
> There is a mentality that 'these things should be covered', it's us who should be pro-active in looking after our own!
> Why indeed should the tax payer be responsible for our childrens teeth, especially when it is to do with cosmetic issues.
>

So cruel an attitude poloaussie and all others that think like wise.
It would entail only the children of financially secure parents having the benefit of a 'nice smile', and all of the other poor little sods would grow up covering their mouths when they talk and not smiling due to lack of self confidence even developing speech defects due to the low self esteem.

I, for one would be more than happy for some of my NI, NHS,Taxes or whatever going into a pot for the less privileged children so they like me could have the benefit of good teeth.

I had my teeth corrected years ago when there was such a thing as complete and free treatment for children, if my parents had had to pay it would not have been done and not only would I have had to suffer years of teasing and low self esteem I would have grown up with a gob full of teeth that were basically crap.

Perhaps if this govenment adopted the 'charity begins at home' ethos then maybe less parents would have the terrible worry that the OP will face as she tries to 'find the money'

It would entail only the children of financially secure parents having the benefit of .........

That is true of absolutely everything in this life Nicola! :)  In an ideal world, every child should have a lovely home, beautiful clothes, the best toys, all the activity classes that they want, and the best medical and dental care that money can buy and two perfect parents too! 

If only ... but this is the real work and life's just not like that and hard decisions have to be made!

> It would entail only the children of financially secure parents having the benefit of a 'nice smile', and all of the other poor little sods would grow up covering their mouths when they talk and not smiling due to lack of self confidence even developing speech defects due to the low self esteem.
>

When I was a child it was pretty rare for anyone to have braces but we were not all crippled by confidence issues over it :-) 
I don't know when this drive for perfection developed, via American TV programmes perhaps, and I can understand that mothers will always want the best for their children but I think they ought to understand that the rest of the world will not judge their child on the basis of their perfect smile.  Just bringing them up to be smilers will do :-)
Of course I am not talking about children that have severe abnormalities or health issues as a consequence of a bad alignment but just all those children that have normal mouths that fall short of Hollywood ideals.  The NHS has to ration its funds and I believe there are greater calls on them than this.
Having a system of degree determined by measurements seems like a reasonable way to go to determine those at the severe end that should be helped and I think it is perfectly fair to then say the others are of only cosmetic significance and up to the individual to decide if they feel they want to fund an improvement.
Now, where is my NHS face lift aplication form? :-D

When I was a child it was pretty rare for anyone to have braces but we were not all crippled by confidence issues over it
That's a very good point!  Me too.

But those were also the days when it was very rare for people to be unemployed.  I worked with a girl who was severely crippled with polio.  She had calipers on both legs and walked with crutches.  She was also given a little blue battery 'invalid carriage' which she drove to work.  When she arrived, one of the lads carried one of her crutches and her bag up 2 flights of metal stairs while Sue pulled herself up as best she could.  Once upstairs, she sat in a chair and was a perfect receptionist/switchboard operator.  She had confidence and self respect at earning her own living and a good social life, joining in with all the things that us able bodied (?) girls would do.  None of that would happen now.  Things have changed so much and not always for the best!  People were accepted the way that they were and that's something that parents can teach their children and not aim at perfection all the time.

Golly you've brought back some memories! :)

> That is true of absolutely everything in this life Nicola! :-) In an ideal world, every child should have a lovely home, beautiful clothes, the best toys, all the activity classes that they want, and the best medical and dental care that money can buy and two perfect parents too! 
>
> If only ... but this is the real work and life's just not like that and hard decisions have to be made!

And that would be utopia but we don't live in utopia, we live with starving children in the 3rd world, children that die from simple childhood illnesses, old ladies that sit in freezing houses for fear of putting on the heating, soldiers that fight for democratic rights, animals that are badly treated, and there but for the grace of god go I.

That's why the Beveridge Report was initiated, which in turn brought about the Wellfare State and the need to erradicate the 'five evils'
'want, disease, ignorance, squalor and idleness.

If we all took the attitude that 'I can pay for mine but as you can't that's tough', we would be living in a very sad and sorry world.

> People were accepted the way that they were and that's something that parents can teach their children and not aim at perfection all the time.
>

Do we not 'aim for perfection' when we breed dogs?
Why then should we not aim for perfection in our children?

'want, disease, ignorance, squalor and idleness
I can't see that any of those have been sorted, especially want, ignorance and idleness! :(  Disease, is work in progress and some people choose to live in squalor.

There's enough in the pot for everyone's need but not for everyone's selfish greed - with no reference to anyone here! :)

> Why then should we not aim for perfection in our children?

Because they are not dogs and we do not practice selective breeding and should then accept that natures variations are normal.

> When I was a child it was pretty rare for anyone to have braces but we were not all crippled by confidence issues over it :-)

If we went back to 'how things used to be, and 'when I was a girl' etc etc there would be no advancement or delopment in any field.
My god on that basis we'd never have invented the wheel :(

> If we went back to 'how things used to be, and 'when I was a girl' etc etc there would be no advancement or delopment in any field.
>

In this case I would question whether the quest for perfection is an advancement.

>Why then should we not aim for perfection in our children?

In dogs we aim for 'natural' perfection; those which undergo procedures to alter their natural conformation are banned from the show ring. ;)

Having an imperfect mouth didn't do Freddie Mercury any harm ...

If perfection is 'blue eyes and blond hair for all' then no it is not an advancement
If perfection is healthy, even, regular teeth I would say it was an advancement

> If perfection is healthy, even, regular teeth I would say it was an advancement

I wouldn't argue with the healthy :-) but it is no advancement if the pursuit of these cosmetic improvements can actually make children insecure and unhappy.  Far better that they grow up to appreciate that variety is normal as we did.

> In dogs we aim for 'natural' perfection; those which undergo procedures to alter their natural conformation are banned from the show ring. ;-)
>

I could have sworn I'd seen dogs with docked tails at Crufts, but maybe I'm wrong ;)

>I could have sworn I'd seen dogs with docked tails at Crufts, but maybe I'm wrong

'The removal of tails on traditionally-docked breeds' has always been an exception in the regulations. You won't have seen docked examples of non-traditionally docked breeds; and, of course, as the years go by there'll be fewer and fewer docked dogs there at all.

Oh so there are exceptions to the rules, maybe we could apply these to people that can't afford Orthodontics.

I really feel for you nicola and is it possible for you to fight with the authorities on this one, have you got a teaching dental hospital by you, we have one in birmingham. good luck darlin im with you on this one, we work and pay taxes etc, if our children need nessasary dental treatment then they shoud get it with question,

> Far better that they grow up to appreciate that variety is normal as we did.

'As we did'! For whom do you speak?

Can I ask you Isabel (please decline to answer if you wish) but how old are you?
I am 51 years and am fortunate to have had my perfectly healthy but horrendously mis-aligned teeth 'fixed' by the NHS when I was 12 years.
I'm relieved that there have been advancements in dentistry to cater for the cosmetic if not all those with falsies would still be wearing Victorian style wooden ones.

> I am 51 years and am fortunate to have had my perfectly healthy but horrendously mis-aligned teeth 'fixed' by the NHS when I was 12 years.
>

I am a similar age :-) and have very imperfect teeth but they cause me no trouble and have not caused me any lack of love, or lack of job opportunities and certainly no lack of confidence I would say ;-).
As I understand it "horrendously mis-aligned teeth" would probably still come under the NHS now as they would surely be up the scale when measured by the orthodontist.

>I'm relieved that there have been advancements in dentistry to cater for the cosmetic if not all those with falsies would still be wearing Victorian style wooden ones.

So am I :-)

Thank-you for that tessisbest, I was beginning to think that a lot of people out there would see children go without the treatment required to correct badly aligned teeth and give them a happy smile :)

Do these women enhance their looks by wearing make-up I wonder? If so, why? Surely, taking their arguement on board they should be satisfied with 'au naturel'

> I am a similar age :-) and have very imperfect teeth but they cause me no trouble and have not caused me any lack of love, or lack of job opportunities and certainly no lack of confidence I would say ;-).
>

I am pleased that all has worked out for you Isabel, we were lucky enough to grow up in a time when a person's appearance was not scutinised so much and to be honest we have lost 'something' now that appearance has become such an issue.

It is because appearance is such an issue that when and if 'help' is needed to make these kids feel that they fit in I feel it must be attended to. On a scale of 1 to 5 for mis-alignment I would think that 3 would have to mean that the teeth are pretty irregular, for a girl these days that can create quite a lot of distress due to teasing/bullying etc, people are not as forgiving these days.

> and to be honest we have lost 'something' now that appearance has become such an issue.

That is my point.  It is a downward spiral if we continue to drive the push towards the perfect looks.  Young people could all look like Katie Price in 50 years

It is a sad enditement on society today that looks have become so very important but unfortunately they are, of course there has to be a cut off line and I would not endorse boob jobs (unless for after mastectomy) or willy jobs on the NHS :)

I still feel that when teeth are very crooked the NHS should pay, my youngest son has a very prominant 'eye' tooth that he finds embaressing but it is no where near bad enough to warrant NHS funding to correct. Instead it has been left and now that he is working if he wishes to have something done to it he can pay.

One thing I must take serious issue with you Isabel is:-

How the 'chucking hell' can you use the term 'perfect looks' and Katie Price in the same context :) :) :) :) :) :)

I had braces over 25 years ago and my class at the time had about 5 others with braces so it isn't certainly isn't a new thing. I think the bleaching and full sets of new crowns are probably more the new thing but not general realignments.

Yes you go the the US and Canada and most people have lovely teeth BUT not necessarily thorough corrective treatment but by well cared for teeth. Sometimes little corrections done when the children are small stop bigger misalignments later but dental groups seem to in the UK just leave everything till late teens now.

I think it is up to the individual, some are maybe happy with their squint teeth, some are not. I personally would be having them fixed. 

Someone earlier said "we should be prepared to pay up" perhaps 2 adults are working full time in the OP house, earning good money and have put plenty in the pot already.

Sorry that you think I haver a cruel attitude Nicola,
I stand by what I say though.
Cosmetic dentistry is just that, cosmetic dentistry. There is always provision for the very poorest financially as we do live in a reasonably civilised society, unlike some of the third world areas of the world.
Also if we choose to raise children then we should take on the responsibilities that go with that and not expect others to be obliged to pay.
I am charitable but I am not a fool.
Karen :)

eta;
I live in a non nhs area of the UK, we have no free dental cover for children unless very low income....or suffering with a certain minimum of dental problems. For the first time in 3/4 years a free check up was done this week within the school my daughter is attending. So I am I feel qualified to understand.

I'm sure that there are many children around at the moment that have braces purely for cosmetic reasons. If there is a problem, or the teeth are worse than average then I agree with free treatment. Funnily enough, I was out with friends recently and all four of them have daughters who apparently need braces !. I find that very hard to believe - need or want - not sure. I'm sure many parents could afford it - but maybe Sky TV or buying the latest Wii etc takes priority.
On the other hand, why did my very elderly parents have to pay £2000 for false teeth ?. They were on basic pensions at the time and just because they'd put aside a little savings they had to pay. Their need for teeth was far greater than the need for every child to have 'perfect' teeth. Typically my Dad lost his top set (thrown away by accident !). He had to pay an extra £500 to have it replaced. He passed away recently but was always worrying about losing them again.

> On the other hand, why did my very elderly parents have to pay £2000 for false teeth ?

Now, that does seem harsh.  Does the NHS cover any sort of dentures?

Does the NHS cover any sort of dentures?

Nope!  Not once you are an adult. :)  Maybe the generation who have paid their taxes all of their lives and have lost all their teeth through osteoporosis due to poor diets when they were children, should all walk around gummy and unable to eat while children should have beautiful teeth because they haven't been taught that we are all born with 'differences'? :)

I'm sure that "horrendously mis-aligned teeth 'fixed' " are still fixed under the NHS as we would all agree should be done.

Can you all not see the point that I am making.

There should be free dentistry for all, and if that means re-aligning a childs teeth then so be it, (I must point out I believe that badly aligned teeth wear down more quickly due to a 'bad bite' thus giving rise to the need for more treatment that could have been avoided if re-alignment had been done).

The NHS should also cover the cost of a good quality set of dentures for the elderly and not what I understand is to only fund the NHS quality jobs (remember the old NHS style glasses, ooops there goes another kettle of fish!!!). ;)

It's funny because the state of the nations teeth is far worse now than it was after the war. Maybe rationing sweets would help some of the decay problems.

>There should be free dentistry for all,

With the huge increase in procedures that are now available the amount of tax everyone would have to pay to cover it would rise astronomically. With limited resources there has to be rationing, and it's only fair (IMO) that the most essential candidates for treatment get priority.

There should be free dentistry for all
The NHS should also cover the cost of a good quality set of dentures for the elderly
remember the old NHS style glasses

There just isn't enough money in the pot to pay for everything and so decisions have to be made or everyone's contributions increased to the point that the few people who are working couldn't afford to pay their contributions! 
Everyone wants the best of everything these days instead of accepting what is adequate.  Basic economics are to reduce outgoings or increase incomings - there is no other way of doing it.

> Nope!  Not once you are an adult.

I have done a bit of Googling and no, they are not free but they do have a ceiling cost of £198.