I retired from work a while ago and thought aha!  I will buy a show dog and that will my new hobby - dogs have been my passion but never had the chance of having a puppy before,  have always had rescues!  So paid quite a good price for my sheltie bitch puppy who is (I think) sooo pretty.  I had people stop me many times out on our walks exclaiming at lovely she is.  She is not quite 5 months old.

However I joined a local breed club and have entered a couple of little puppy shows.  To my disappointment she wasn't even picked to be in the line up at all, twice.  She did come fourth though in prettiest bitch!  I am beginning to see though that showing is very frustrating.  Most of the people in the club are breeders it seems with lots of dogs and I suppose I now realise that to be successful you probably have to breed your own pups.  Breeders are always going to keep their best bitches.

My girl is quite fine boned and dainty and will never be large although we think now she will reach the required height.  She is a shaded sable and her coat is coming through beautifully.  Her eyes though are apparently a  bit rounder than they should be (they should be almond shaped) but that  makes her look so pretty.

The thing is I have been taking her to ringcraft classes which she loves as she is such a showoff.  Am I daft and expecting too much?  I am really enjoying the classes and the little shows we have done.  I am soon starting obedience with her as she is quick and bright.

What are others' experiences of showing when they first started out (I think I expect instant success LOL)

Snowflake

Hi Snowflake,
Wecome to the world of dog showing, if like me you have her for a pet first and foremost then hey what the h**l just enjoy her and have fun, go to the odd shows but treat them as fun and games with your lovely dog. If it were so easy to obtain a great show dog then we could all do it and the fun and suspence would be gone from showing...I have been breeding and showing first GSD's and now BMD's for over 30 years all told and have just this year produced my first Champion Whoop Whoop!! Plenty of nice dogs have shared thier lives with me and  I have loved every one of them, we have shown with varying ammounts of succses and failure but they have all been the best dogs in the world to me...and that is all that matters in the greater picture. Enjoy your lovely girl and let the rossettes be a bonus.
Aileen and the Girlies xx

I agree with Merlot just enjoy it and over the next couple of years you will learn so much more about the breed and the people involved that will stand you in good stead should you wish to obtain a puppy that would place you more firmly in competition if that is what you decide you might wish.
If you think about it, showing and picking the best examples of the breed would be a rum old thing if the placings were given not necessarily on merit because but because they were new, had a pretty dog or were just plain old nice :-) 

Most people show for years and years and are perhaps on their 4th or 5th show dogs before they become (if they ever become) really successful. It's all about choosing the right puppy. I think you'd have to be extremely lucky indeed to get a great pup first time out with no research into lines at all.

I was lucky when I started showing. I'd always wanted a borzoi,l but wasn't allowed one so this gave me a few years to go to all the shows I could and watch the zoi judging. I soon realised that there were different types, and that I preferred some kennels dogs and that some kennels were more successful than others. I asked masses and masses of questions and some very tolerant people let me go over their dogs and explained what I should be looking for. I fell in love with one dog Ch Vronsky Zapata and when I could have a zoi puppy I chose one of his sons, to a line bred bitch. I left it up to the breeder to choose my actual puppy though as I had absolutely no experience of choosing pups. Despite his very new handler that dog went on to be a champion, a champ show group winner, and he won at Crufts, beating the breed record holder. Other successful dogs followed, another champion and ticket winners but I still think that he was the best dog I ever had. Interestingly though he was never very successful at open shows. I think at open shows, under judges who are not generally breed specialists, then handling, confidence and demeanour count for a lot. My second champion done very well at open shows, winning BIS at all the biggest open shows in Scotland - yet he wasn't a patch on my first dog :-)

As long as you're enjoying showing, then that's the most important thing. if you want to know honestly how good your little girl is I think you do have to do a few champ shows rather than local club shows, get her out in classes with her own breed and age group under breed specialist judges. Remember though that every judge interprets the standard differently - no dog wins under every judge....and at the end of the day you still take the best dog (in your eyes) home.

I also wanted to say don't obsess about her eyes, there is no such thing as a perfect dog. They all have faults, some judges will excuse different faults. Personally I think movement and construction are far more important than eye shape ;-)

I think that if we're honest, we all expected the same as you when we started!  But after a while, we get things into perspective. :)

I think that you are generally right that a breeder will keep the best bitch for themselves - that doesn't mean that your bitch isn't nice - just not the best. :)  But as long as you and she enjoy your training and your days out, then you'll continue to learn more about your breed, you'll have fun while your out and you'll have the best companion while you're at home! :)

You may in time come across older breeders (like me!) who don't have the energy anymore to campaign dogs all over the country like they used to but are still producing the occasional litter of quality pups and are only too pleased to let a keen newcomer with a bit of experience, have their best bitch to campaign for them.

PS  Many Shelties have a rounder eye than their breeder would like! :)

Thank you for your sensible comments.  You are all quite right and it will take some time to get a bit more experience and "eye" too I suspect.

My girlie's breeder is pretty successful and she came from a little of four quite stunning pups (all bitches).  She was the smallest but in fact is now a bit bigger than one of the ones the breeder kept. The breeder is lovely and has been really helpful and we keep in touch.  I think she is quite impressed with my keenness so one day perhaps she will let me have one of her best bitches now she knows me!

I will just enjoy it all and see how it all goes, meanwhile learning a lot.  Already in the few weeks I have been "involved" I think I have learned quite a lot!  Isla my puppy has the most fabulous temperament which is so important, she loves everyone and is happy and confident.  I do now see that if you want to show you just have to start with the best you can and at least that way you begin to learn your craft.

Isla - as with my two other dogs (Westie and JRT) will always be predominantly a pet.  But a bit of success one of these days would be luverly!

Snowflake

Snowflake

I noticed one thing I haven't seen anyone else pick up on yet -you mention "puppy shows" but your girl is only 5 months old yet? Hence you cannot have been to any actual REAL shows, as pups have to be 6 months old to enter them. I wouldn't really pay any attention to any fun show like this as it tells you little or nothing -go for an open show once she is old enough and see how you get on then -you might be pleasantly surprised! :)

> Isla my puppy has the most fabulous temperament

And that alone is worth it's weight in gold.

Don't forget it's not just the dog that wins but the way it's handled which shows it off in the right way.  I'm sure when you get out and about and showing that you could do quite well.  The eye shape in the Sheltie is quite important though, so having the wrong eye shape would be one area where she may lose out.

Just enjoy and get out there. One of my Spanish is to big but he loves showing and in other ways is a nice example of the breed. Some days I'll go to shows and get chucked out, then others he'll win a massive class of gundogs, you just never know what a judge will pick.

When you go to a show, you always come back with the best dog!!

I agree with Marianne, at 5 months it's far too early to make any decisions. I would try lots of open and companion shows - and don't listen too seriously to what anyone says about whether or not you should show her. Lots of people would not show my bitch as she's a bit big and plain headed, but the judges who judge for movement etc love her. It's a very subjective thing, judging. And so what if you never win a class, you can still enjoy yourself, make friends, have a day out - and at the companion shows there's always the 'waggiest tail' or 'prettiest bitch' classes!

Oh I'll definitely give it a go as I have enjoyed the bit I have done.  Isla just loves it and really moves well.  When we get to ringcraft she busily bustles in and walks really well on her lead.

In December (when she will be 6 months old) we are going in for show but it is not all Shelties, it is A.V. pastoral/working group, gundogs/terriers etc.  It is a Members Limited show under KC Rules and is local.  Thought we would have a go at the AV Minor Puppy and the AV Puppy Bitch for a  bit of experience and fun.  Being Christmas there will be mince pies etc and grandson will be there for support me!

Your comments have really made me feel better (as lots of you started off like me with rather high hopes LOL)and now I feel I will just chill out and see what happens - and let isla be a puppy bless her!  She is sitting on my foot as I sit here on the computer.

Snowflake

Snowflake, my dear, don't worry, be happy!! Showing is really a ermm 'specialised sport'!!! I mean that in the nicest possible way!

Even when you have a cracking dog/bitch if it isn't the right person on the end of the lead then some days you will never win! Just enjoy it, learn lots, watch and listen, go to some of the Champ shows as an observer, without the doggy, and you can learn a lot! If you continue to enjoy it and decide you need serious advice and guidance and if your Breeder will help you...use her as a Mentor, ask for help and if she has a decent bitch she will sell to you, it is in her interests to have her shown successfully! There is no better advert than having sound, quality dogs winning at Champ shows!

Treat it as a hobby initially and as your knowledge grows and you develop you can decide whether to go 'full blown' into Showing!

Good luck, Dawn

You can start off with the pick of the litter and still find it hard to get placed if you are both novices ;) 

I know, I've been there!   Chucked at so many open shows in the first 18 months it was becoming a joke ( all right we were known as the entertainment :-D )  By 18 months I sort of knew what was required of me, so pup's breeder persuaded me to enter a Championship show.  I was like a hick from the sticks, so nervous I couldn't remember how old my dog was, could hardly remember to walk in the right direction... and we got placed 3rd!! and qualified for Crufts too   the rest, as they say, is history :-D 

I takes a lot of practise to be able to show your dog to its best advantage ;)  just walking the dog around at exactly the right pace can be tricky ;)  and standing them correctly is another art ;)

Showing isn't just about presenting your dog on the day either, correct feeding as a pup, to ensure pup grows right, the right amount and kind of exercise,  the right grooming and coat preparation - it all goes into getting the dog into tip-top condition for the show ring ;)

Above all, remember you ALWAYS take the best dog home with you :-D :-D

Good Luck with your new venture and try to remember to have FUN :) :)

snowflake

When I wrote my post I ommited to notice that your pup was only 5 months and, as stated by another poster, cant have been to any 'proper' shows yet.

I never get a chance to take my pups to ringcraft (too busy teaching others) but I did take this latest pup to a local club for a little outing. Unknown to me they were having a match and did have a 'most promising pup' class so I duly entered her for practice-  she had a breed championship show the following week.
Out in the first round or it's affectionatly called 'out with the rubbish' :-(
The folowing week at the breed club she won her class of 30 and went on to best puppy bitch in show, this pup has gone on to be placed in the top 3 at all her shows nationaly this year, in massive classes and several Best of Breeds at open shows -still as a baby.

It is often real novice judges ( I've even been judged by the local vicar with his pet dog), with limited experience of breeds other than their own, judging these little 'pretty puppy' classes so it's early days for you and your pup to be sure. Just enjoy it for what it is a day out with your beloved dog.

I agree with Toolz-my first show dog never won anything at Open shows or club matches and was known to be "chucked out with the rubbish" but champ shows were a different story and she became a Champion.You really won't know how good she is till you show her under breed specialists.
Hope you have lots of fun showing her,good luck and she sounds like a lovely character,you always take the best dog home anyway!

Oh I have enjoyed reading your replies and feel so much more positive (or what I really feel is that I will enjoy it but if we never win anything I shall shrug it off - I know that Isla is such a gorgous girlie).

I would love to know what your breeds are eg Perrodeagua and Lucydogs, Dill  and all of you - out of interest?

Snowflake

I agree I got Whistler thinking I would show him, but, he grew, and grew and grew a bit more. So I have a big cocker. I still harbour a wish to buy another cocker one day, but, I visit crufts shows and can get a better idea of what a show dog really is. Whistler is my practice dog, I groom him, strip him and get his coat right. One day I may try again but as I sit here in my office with toastie feet and the warm smell of pony pooh drifting up Im happy to be with my friend and I would not change him for a "proper show dog" ever.

My first champion was my fourth dog, third generation home bred.

I have also sold pick of litter who have become champions for other people as I can only keep a  limited number of dogs, but still need to advance my breeding program.

My first bitch was a quality bitch whose litter brother became a champion (I was offered him but wanted a girl).  My first home bred girl was a one step forward one step back, and in hindsight I realise I kept the wrong pup, with what I have learnt I would have kept one of the others.

Her daughter I would say was my first real show dog, but unfortunately she was a terror for not eating and was always light of coat and body while young and by the time she had matured nicely she was being beaten by her own daughter,( who was a champion before the age of two) but did win a RCC and one more win would have her out of Limit, but she had so many second places in strong classes.

Breeders don't always keep the best bitches for themselves, sometimes they keep one just for the bloodlines, or to keep a trait they wanted to bring in, even if the litter mate who didn't posses this was better.

Hi Snowflake, my breed is Cavaliers - we bought a Cav and an American cocker, I'd thought 'that looks fun' while flicking through breed books at the show pics and as well as looking for health & temperament had asked for help picking a puppy which wouldn't embarrass me at the odd open show. My Cavalier then went on to win a CC, 2 Firsts at Crufts, a ShCM, a BIS at a club show, and so on and so on. He's now coming up to 7, watch out the Veteran classes!! My other Cav, my girl, is the one I referred to earlier, she is a bit big and plain headed as I said, but her shape and movement are superb, she usually gets chucked out at Champ shows but has 5 BOB at open shows. So just persevere - I bet you do perfect well with your girl, and as long as you make sure you and she enjoy it you will be fine. Keep us posted about the results when you start showing her!

Gosh what success you have had Lucydogs!!  (I have a Westie called Lucy!).  Cavs are popular so yours must be very good to have done so well.  I love American Cockers, sooo glamorous, very showy!

I will keep you posted as to how we do but I must say Isla moves really well on the lead and looks as if she is enjoying it all which is good in one so young.  Oh dear,  at the moment if she were human I think she would she would be one of the "terrible twos", she is driving the other two dogs mad jumping on them and yap yap yapping and chewing everything in sight!

When you say your othe Cav is plain headed what did you mean - Cavs have rather cute little faces - is her head a bit big??

Snowflake

Hi Snowflake
I would just like to add that unless you get judged by someone who knows your breed you are unlikely to get a true answer of how good she is...puppy shows,companion shows etc are unlikely to give you much of a clue .What has her breeder said about her?
If you are serious take the plunge and enter some champ shows.....but remember that she may not be everyones cup of tea so don't be disheartened.It will also give YOU chance to compare her to some other pups in her breed
Nikki

To be honest she looks fine to me, but rose tinted glass and all that. I'm told she looks more like a dog than a bitch, both from her size and her head. She's still my girl though! :-)

We had a saying in the USA (I am back in the UK now, but showed over there for 5.5 yrs).... if your dog wins at a puppy match, it's no good!!  Their puppy match's are much the same as our ringcraft matches here, only held on a 'group' system as a show would normally be.  They are also usually held as part of a proper show, but in the evening!  It's fantastic practice for babies!

Anyway....... I kept a puppy from my first litter of Kees, the dog I really wanted to keep I sent to Ireland, and I ended up keeping the one that the American's said I should (as they have a rather diffent type over there compared to here!).  So... my little man (Chaos, yes that was his name), went to a puppy match up in Michigan and won Best Puppy in Match!  I was thrilled!!!  But guess what... he didn't turn out so good, and when we came back to the UK, he went to a lovely pet home where he has the time of his life playing with their two children.  His brother that I should have kept is now and American, Irish and International Champion... go figure!!! :0)

I guess that saying really could be true!  So, perhaps you are better off not winning at the puppy shows! LOLOLOLOL!