I have worked really hard on my boys behaviour but I have been confused by all the methods of training available.
Having spoken to a "Dog Listener" I wanted to find out more about this method so signed up for a weekend "Foundation Course".  During the weekend I did not feel that they were teaching the method as much as telling us how it came about and what the basic principles are which I had already read about in the books! I have ordered the DVD to see if that will help which considering the cost of the course is disappointing as was the fact that following the course I was told that I would not be invited back for the next level of training which allows you to become an official "Dog Listener" as it was "very demanding". I was not aware that I had to "impress" them enough to be "invited" back!!?? I am annoyed as I thought it was up to me to make that choice!

2 Points here..............Firstly has anyone else been on this course and had the same experience i.e. found it unfulfilling and not been invited back? What was your reaction?

Secondly does anyone have an opinion on this method and are there any other similar styles out there I could learn with a view to career change to Dog Training....if training is the right word.....to help people with doggy behaviour problems in a gentle way.

If you do a search here on CD you will find a LOT of posts on the subject.........and probably not one positive one.

http://www.learningaboutdogs.com/

Would recommend this place as offering good advice - haven't been on any of the courses personally, but I have heard only good, and what I have read looked good too. I was thinking about trying some except my dog's broke. :-(

I've always found the 'qualifications' of dog behaviourists interesting!

After reading your post, I Googled and came up with
'The first step is to attend the 2 day Foundation Course. On successfull completion of the Foundation Course, participants are invited at Jan Fennell's discretion to attend the 3 day Advance Course. Once you have successfully completed the Advance Course you can start working with owners to teach them how to communicate with their dog/s through Amichien Bonding ® as a Preliminary Dog Listener.'

Maybe if you question the methods or just ask too many questions rather than accept it in an evangelical way, then you're not invited back!  It would appear that anyway, after only 5 days training, you can be let loose on the public, so probably not the sort of trainer that I would look to for advice. :(

Obviously I interpreted the bit about being invited back that because I had attended this course you could then go on to the next level if you wanted....not just go straight to the advanced from scratch. I did not see the part about...."at Jan Fennells discretion" anywhere.
I am afraid I have to agree about not accepting it in evangelical way being a possible cause of my "failure". I was not there on the "Oh, yes I will do everything you say and your way". I was a bit more reticent as I could not be sure until it was clear in my head that I could follow all the principles.

My initial reason for this is to work with my own lad primarily but I would like to take it further with regards to Dog Psychology/ behaviour/ training.

Have you heard of Turid Rugass....yes that is her name.......I saw a link from here for her?

Thanks. I have added it to my reading list.............................

after going to a Jan Fennell lecture once
i can say i was not impressed at all
nor were the people i went with
the impression i got was her way was the only right way
and all other ways were wrong

I have read her books and found that you end up ignoring them half the time :( not much fun.

Beware dogma (excuse the pun). Anyone who claims to have exclusive access to the truth is not being honest or helpful. But in order to claim to train someone in five days, or even five months, to a standard high enough to go out as a so called "dog Listener", you have to claim some kind of religious insight.

All the various branches of behaviourism are part of the young and evolving science of psychology, so noone should be claiming all the answers. And it is a science, not a religion. Those who require unthinking and slavish adherence to their views are, in my view, no better than religious fundamentalists. Evidence is all.

Take what you can from the course and do more exploring. Don't expect to find all the answers in one place. In my view no amount of courses or degrees are a substitute for years of hands on experience with dogs. A three day course in Amichien Bonding may prove enlightening but the theory won't necessarily help the first time you are cornered by a highly aggressive dog.

So have YOU been cornered by an aggressive dog? If so what did you do.....or what would you do?
Add to my learning curve...........

One thing I am doing is to be more calm with my boy who is very hyper. I take control of more situations by either ignoring them so he does, or asking him to stay by me whilst someone passes as he has a tendency to rush over to say "Hello" to people with an abundance of enthusiasm into their legs (not good with a wet or muddy dog) and mouthing their hands if they put them down to greet him!

At the end of the day I guess I need to use what works with him.

As I have said before in a thread like this - I read this book when my old setter was getting towards the end of his life - he had always been an independant sort of dog and I really thought this was the answer to everything I had been looking for!  It sounded such an easy formula to follow and hey presto the perfect dog.  However it was a big mistake - it gave me the false confidence to look for something more demanding but my little collie turned out to be far more complex.  I have nearly given up on her twice in the 3 years I have had her.  I have learnt far more from reading on here then I ever learnt by reading that book. 

You might be interested in reading Turid's work on Calming Signals. You can read some her work on this here. The behaviourists and trainers that have impressed me the most are the ones that admit to not knowing all the answers, confessing how much we don't understand and have presented methods as 'one way to achieve...' acknowledging that there are as many ways to train and treat dogs as there are dogs and people.

I have had one of her behaviourists in thinking it would be good after reading her books.
Boy was i wrong, she wouldn't demonstrate anything on my dogs, only went through it verbally. She didn't care for what problems we had. Said what to do which is the same for any dog and exactly whats in the book.

I called her back after not having any luck and was told that i should keep up with it and it'll work. Basically this was the only way and it WOULD and DOES work. Never called back and what a load of wasted money on my part. Most of what they suggested is what we do anyway and have always done.

I personally don't believe that you only have to do small things in order to get the desired results. I have worked alongside another behaviourist who was good and if one thing didn't work she would suggest other things we could do.
I think that a good behaviourist will keep an open mind and will be willing to adopt and try different things.
There is no one good way of training a dog, you have to adapt to each dog and its problems.

lyndob,

yes, I have dealt with aggressive dogs and although I could tell you how I dealt with each instance and what I thought was going on, I would only be commenting on a particular dog in a particular situation and it would be rather long!. Not really that useful unless you see it for yourself and I certainly wouldn't want to say here is the formula for dealing with an aggressive dog. That would be irresponsible. And, as you know, there are many types of aggression with many causes.

What I meant was that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.  There are some fine theorists out there and some excellent behaviourists, but, like others here have said, they don't claim to have all the answers or quick fixes. I think the only way to learn is to supplement intensive, long term, hands on experience of all kinds of dogs, of different breed types and exhibiting a range of problems, with loads of theory. Not a tall order LOL!

I think you are to be congratulated on your scepticism. An open mind is the best mind.

 

I respect your response!!

After I had been on the course I had my doubts as to wether or not take it further and do the Advanced course to become a "Dog Listener" . However that choice was not given to me when they told me I could not go on the Advanced Course. At the time I was upset as I wanted to be the one to decide and I was left feeling the course was a waste of my time and money!! I appealed and the reply came back  that the decision is made with...."the future welfare of the....team...in mind, and would ask that you respect the decision made"  Now having reflected on it and read the posts on here I think it has done me a favour. I am well out of it. I dont think now it was a waste of time but something to take with me and beyond their ideas!!

I still dont think I would recommend the Foundation course as I think you get as much from the books and DVD.

Thanks.

No learning is ever a waste of time - even if you only bring home with you what you don't want to do! :)