We have a small dog who has recently begun to pull dreadfully on the lead. We are considering using a head halter but are concerned about the posibility of her backing out of it. Are there any ones which are escape proof or do they all have to be used along with a conventional collar ? We do know that we shall have to go back to basic heelwork training to get her out of this habit but for walks which have to be from A to B in a set time eg the walk to school and back the head collar could make things less fraught. Which headcollar is safest in your opinion ?
Denise

Hi Denise
Head Collars are very useful. I use one called *Dogmatic* with my Wolfhounds sometimes. It is made of leather and once it is fitted on the dog can't wriggle out or pull it off. :)
However you say your dog is small, I wonder how small.
Besides my IW's I also have a Black & Tan Terrier, she is 10" at the shoulder and for her I use a harness that goes over her head and round her front legs it is called *Lupi*, again once on it can't come off. :)
Dogmatic is only available by mail order (I think) so try a search on Google as I know they have a web site. Lupi harnesses are available in any good pet shop.
HTH
Nicky

Denise
I use a halti ,which can be backed out of so I also either attach it to another collar or have another collar and lead on the dog as backup .I also have a gentle leader but the halti seems to fit better for my dog but each to there own :)
HTH
Liz:)

I use a Dogmatic for my Malamute ....they are a very good firm and will help you fit the head collar ...and will try and try again until you have the right size. I attach his lead to his head collar AND to his ordinary collar so if he gets out I still have hold of him ;)

Melody

Hi guest

I use haltis for my sibes, they did not like them at first but I made them where them around the house for a short while till they got the feel of them abit better.

They do pull out of them sometimes when they feel like playing up (quite often) So I use another collar as back up so I can just clip the lead on.

Well, Denise, I also have a small dog who pulls like crazy. I have tried everything - halti, lupi, walkezee, but nothing works on him, he still manages to pull. Consequently I get really angry with him and walks are just not enjoyable anymore.

I can get him to walk quite well in the garden or up and down the drive but, as you say it's the getting from A to B that's the problem. I'm afraid I've got to the point where I've given up on us ever walking together without tension (physical and mental !! :) )

Best of luck !!
Joyce

I use a haltie on my hybrid, he walks very good at heal and now lags behind so short walks. I use a prong on 2 of my bostons and a choke colar (the chain link ones) on my other boston. My one boston does great on a buckle. We tried to go back to a buckle with the haltie but no go, but are slowly getting there with the prong. I use to use a harness on my bostons but all they did was pull.

A prong and a choke collar on Bostons? Dear god, whatever would you use on a big dog?. Sorry, but Im horrified.!!!!! :(

Boston Terriers? Can't be, thought they were even smaller than Staffies. Dont even the large ones weigh in at under 25lb? Ja:)kie

Out of curiosity Dollface- what would you use on my German Shep?

Stacey x x x

A prong collar if fitted properly does not hurt the dog. I had them on other training collars that did not work, my obedience trainer suggested this and it works like a charm. My dog is no longer hurting himself and corrects himself with out choking. With a haltie you can not go back to a buckle, but with a prong you can. We are slowly getting back to a buckle collar. Yes I would use a prong on a shepherd if nothing else worked. If the person does not know how to fit a prong you will hurt your dog. (there was a lady in a pet store putting a prong on her lab cross and the employes didn't even know how to fit it, it was way to loose on the neck, so I showed her and the one she was buying was to big. If the store people don't know how to fit it they shouldn't be selling it same with any correcting collar). As for a choker chain if that is not used properly could really hurt your dog. IMOP I find the prong a lot more safer than a choker chain. The choke chain should be corrected with a pop to the side, most people don't do that and they can really injure their dogs neck and back. The haltie is a side ways down (I was shown) to or you can hurt your dog. The prong well the dog corrects them self and no chance of hurting anything. Most people just go out and buy these corection collars and think thats it but don't know how to use, fit or put on properly. I think before people get mad and criticize other people they should really check into it themselves. Yes Bostons are 25 pounds and under (mine 19 to 25 pounds), I would never do anything to be cruel or hurt my animals or any other animal. I thought the prong was mean in the beginning until shown different. I even used it on my arm (short sleeve, as well as my husnand and gave a pop) it never hurt, I never have to give my dog a pop.

Thank you eoghania you probable explained what I was trying to say much better :)
It isn't cruel at all, having to give pops, and the dog choking themself is a lot crueler.

Dollface, if it does not hurt the dog, how does it work?

The dog just feels the pressure on their neck and they stop pulling, dogs don't like the pressure when they pull thats why they stop. You should never have to give a pop. If the prong is loose around the neck then it slides around and that is how it can hurt the dog, of course to tight will hurt them also thats why they must be fitted properly. To go back to a buckle you use both prong and buckle and a leash on both. Start with the prong leash and slowly use the buckle leash more. This is were I'm at, when he starts to pull I loosen up on the buckle leash and use the prong once he feels the pressure then he stops. For fitting the prong the links can be taken apart, I have two links taken out on Junior or it was to big.
The chain collar it is the side snap and the noise that has the effect, but I never had a chance to do the correction he just pulled. I was told that the harness was useless to train a dog because you cannot correct them. If they are always pulling with any collar you are just do more damage then good. I hope this made some sense :)

Having not seen the collar I can't comment but would have thought if a dog is pulling hard enough to damage themself, why would they stop with this collar if it does not hurt.

It is the way the collar is made. The prongs when pulled on go out and causes a little feeling of pressure all around the neck. Where the choker is just a tighting and chokes the dog. It doesn't cause pain or choking just pressure all over when they pull.

Hi Jackie, not sure which is which. Could you or anyone tell me where I could look at these collars so I can know which ones are being talked about please.
Christine, Spain

Not seen one in the flesh, Christine, but they appear to be a wide leather collar with long studs on the inside, how they are used I don't know. Ja:)kie

Hi Jackie, I was offered the use of one once for a very strong Wolfie I had( no thank you!!!!)
It was like a welded double chain collar with "L" shaped prongs on the inside. When pulled against, they stuck into the dogs neck. Not nice at all!!!

OK thanks Jackie, just like to know what they look like cos have a dog boarding with me at the mo & he came in with what I thought was a chain collar & when I went to take it off I got my fingers trapped & then it came off in one piece but when I hung it up a bit fell off!
Phillipa maybe if I take a photo of it & send it you you can tell me if it is one please?
Christine, Spain

Hi Christine, yes, of course you can...sighthounds@hotmail.com

It all seems quite strange to me too I can't help but think that if I owned Bostons rather than the G-Shep I'd be laughing:rolleyes: I don't use anything on Kass other than the usual choke - that I clip back on itself so it's never on choke (big links). Through training, hard work and perseverance (Sp?) she just about walks to heel now 90% of the time at 7 months old. If I didn't want her to walk to heel I still wouldn't use anything such as what you're talking about I'd just let her rip my arm off every time- since it would be my fault for not teaching her to walk to heel.

Stacey x x x

Hi Stacey,
I can understand what your saying.... The problem with many dogs, especially the smaller breeds, they're not just "ripping the owner's arm off" by pulling too hard. They're causing injury to themselves. :(

--(Although, I do get upset when an owner is pulled over by the dog to 'see' me and mine and subsequent problems ensue due to lack of control :rolleyes: )

When a lot of dogs pull hard, it's worse than just annoying the owner. The dog is actually choking itself against the collar. I've seen this with regular buckle collars AND training collars (aka "choke chains"). It's terrible for the health of the dog and can actually collapse a trachea. That's where a lot of these dogs sound so hoarse when they're older. They've permanently wrecked their own breathing :(

It can be very hard to use any type of pressure collars with smaller dogs. Always have to be aware of using too much strength for their size :( I think sometimes the heavier weight of the collar lets the dog realize easier where it's supposed to be... don't know. Just that they do work and without pain/stress for the dog and owner.

I don't advocate prong collars for everyone. Many times they're quite unecessary and run the risk of being easily abused. But those who use it correctly have better control over their dog who probably would not respond to the slighter pull of a regular collar. And size really doesn't matter then :)

I saw a very small German woman "catch" her 120+ pound rottie after he lunged in surprise when I biked past him with my dogs. She was using a prong collar and had this dog under complete control and at a sit within seconds. I was impressed :) I don't think he would have noticed the fly on his neck if she was just using a buckle collar ;)

If you type prong collar on the net it will tell you all about them. With a dog pulling all the time on a buckle, choker ect can damage their trech., neck, and back. The prongs are dull not sharp and don't come staight out, it gives kinda like a pinching feeling all around, which the dog doesn't like the feeling and to avoid it, the dog doesn't pull. It causes no pain or injury, unless not on properly. Where a buckle or choker will cause pain and choking. The prong was advised by my obedience trainer since the other ones never worked and I was just hurting and choking my dog. Like I said I thought they were the cruelest things in the world until shown other wise. I do have a boston that walks great on a buckle, and another on a choker. Just the clink noise of the choker puts him back in heal, I never have to use the side pop, just the noise on that one. It really depends on the dog on the training collar you can use. With my boston I have done training with heal and class and we are in agility. He just loves to pull and we are now slowly getting it under control. Everytime he would pull I would turn around and walk the other way, that would work but I find with the prong he is learning much faster and is actually listening to me now. Check it out on the net. I was reading were they did a study with dogs on different training collars and found that the choke chain and buckle caused more damage when the dog pulled. I tried it on my arm first before my dog and it doesn't hurt. You can even get rubber tipped ones as well. But please check out the prongs on the net, then you will know what we are talking about. thank you :)

Size doesn't matter, unfortunately :( My mom finally ended up using a prong collar for her 13 pound Mini Schnauzer bitch years ago after a training collar just would not work. Haltis didn't exist then and I really don't think it would have mattered much.
She would not stop pulling on the lead even when choking herself :(

Mom's trainer finally suggested this style of collar after 4-5 weeks of class work and she herself couldn't get the dog to stop pulling. (it was a very experienced trainer and this was the 3rd schnauzer my mom had obedience trained)

My mom put a properly fitting prong collar on her. After 15 feet of walking Schatzi stopped this bad behavior and heeled properly for the first time in her life. Anytime we tried switching back, the pulling returned. It never had to be used in force at all, it just seemed that she'd notice the pressure quicker when she stepped out of her 'zone' and correct herself without any pain. Majority of the time, the leash was loose on her :)

If this sounds cruel, it wasn't. At least in all of our opinions it was much better than her putting pressure on her own throat to not be able to breathe.... :rolleyes: Stubborn terrier cusses ;) :)