As most of you know, I have only just started showing dogs and done two shows so far, albeit Champ. ones. (thought I might aswell throw myself in at the deep end, and we don't get many shows nearish to here!)

First show was a KC one, and we got 4th out of 5, so not as bad as I had hoped. Last one was this weekend (IKC) just gone and we came 3rd out of three and puppy was graded 'promising'. The judge was kind enough to comment and said that her tail was a bit low set and her expression could be better. I do agree with both, although her expression is improving as she gets older, I am guessing her tail set is there to stay! She is also not that mature (or fat?!) compared ot other pups in the ring and is still a little nervous, as am I, which I doubt helps.

I do not want to sound like a bad loser, as I am not. I know it will take a long time to get 'established' and that I can't expect to do well right away. It is so hard not to get your hopes up though, and although getting feedback from the judge is good, it is also slightly disheartening in a way. I am determined to stick at it though, and keep going, not least as I feel it is a good way to learn.

So, can someone please kick me up the bum and tell me to stop being so silly? Also, stories of how everyone started out will no doubt help, so feel free to post them.

Thankyou, sorry for being such an idiot and moaning about what is probably nothing!

Hi Jackson,

Here comes that kick ;)

don't be disheartened ...........................
that should take years :-D

Not every promising pup makes the grade, equally not every plainish pup doesn't.  By virtue of the fact that this is a pup we're talking about, remember that things change and it will be a while yet before you're able to know whether or not this pup is likely to enjoy some ring success or not :) 

It's rare but of course not unheard of for anyone beginning in the show scene to have been lucky enough to get hold of a puppy that has a flourishing show career ahead of it.  Usually the best pups in the best litters are booked well in advance by others established in a breed.  First or sometimes even 2nd and 3rd dogs which are not going to blaze any trails give exhibitors the opportunity to learn much about their breed - type, construction, grooming, muscle tone, presentation and of course hone handling skills and gain greater self confidence :)

Win or lose your dog is to you what the others are to their owners - the BEST, ever!

Enjoy, don't take things too seriously and keep yourself open to always learning whether through direct advice or vigilant observation :)

Onwards and upwards! Teri

Our youngest champion was frequently thrown as a puppy.  In fact she only had one first and one best puppy at champ show level.  She only qualifed for Crufts by the skin of her teeth.  Since then she has got her title been placed in group and got her show certificate of merit.  Try not to worry.

This might also make you feel better.  A puppy I bred went to its first show last week.  Got thrown in the breed class so I pushed them in to going in to the stakes class as they were disheartened.  Guess what they came 2nd in a huge class beating the dog CC winner!!!! Every judge will have different things they dont like ;)

I was once told by the person who owned the stud dog to our first champion there is nothing wrong with the dog just bad judges.  ;)

> Here comes that kick ;-)
>
> don't be disheartened ...........................
> that should take years :-D

PMSL at that one Teri :)

I think you've done really well - you got placed at your first champ show! Well done! I started showing 6 months ago and have done 2 general champ shows and 1 breed champ show and got nowhere in any of them LOL. My confidence started to take a dive, so I've decided to concentrate on the open shows at the moment, get lots of practice in, and not feel overwhelmed by the 'bigness' of champ shows :)

And whereas we used to come last in open shows (I KNOW we were last, entry levels are so low at the moment that I've been coming 3rd of of 3, or 2nd out of 2 etc), at the last couple of  shows we haven't come last, and it's really given me a lift!

I think you're feeling how I was feeling - I am enjoying the whole showing lark SO much that I don't want to have to admit defeat at any time in the future.
Good luck, and well done so far - keep it up, you're doing great ! :)
Jo

Please keep going!
Go for the day out, and meeting other dog mad people.:)
Maybe do some smaller open shows as well as Champ shows. (that's what we're going to do)
Remember, lots of the people at Champ shows have been campaigning their dogs for years with highs and lows, and they still show.
There is someone in another post with a dog called Callum (sorry can't remember their name) who has just got his 3rd CC, which is fantastic, but they have been showing for 20 years and now have a Champion!
That could still be you, maybe not with your first ever show dog but who will know if you give up.
Keep your chin up!
Paula 

I think sometimes this is the best time to decide if you want to get your teeth in a slog it out or run whilst the going is good ;-)  Often once you get that good win there is NO going back :-)

It is very few people that have done wonderous things with their first show puppy ( I know there are some of course) but it gets the person trained,  handling, presentation, trimming if you have a trimmed breed. It is the making of you for when the time comes you have that fantastic puppy. It will come with hard work.

You are also in a numerally strong breed so it can, I believe take that bit more self determination to see some return for the effort. In these high entry breeds you can often go unplaced you have to dust yourself down and plough on.

please keep going, and remember all puppys and dogs mature at different stages, i have a friend who has kept two brothers back to run on, i show one for her she the other in the ring they are so different one week bum high, then the next week one looks like all legs and no body, one has a brilliant head the other at the moment looks like his head has been squashed by two hands either side of it , but then their sire she let go as a pet only at 8 months old due to unforseen circumstances he came back to her at 3 and she watched him running around the paddocks and thought he is quite nice so decided to give him a go in the breed ring, he is now a champion, and she says herself she learnt a valuable lesson you just never know what an ugly duckling will turn into.
so do not give up just enjoy it have fun meet friends and if you get placed well then that is a bonus
carolann

> I think sometimes this is the best time to decide if you want to get your teeth in a slog it out or run whilst the going is good ;-)  Often once you get that good win there is NO going back :-)
>

How true is that:)  Our friends after they got their good placing rushed straight round the stands for more bedding a new lead and everything else.

We all stood there and said that is the most expensive win you will ever have:)

Hi Jackson,

I know how you feel, I show at IKC shows some times and my first time last year with my first show puppy he was gradded promising placed 4th out of 5 & the judge told me why which I also knew about, then when he moved out of puppy in to junior for the first time, he was graded very good and not placed & again the judge told me why, well now almost a year on he's been gradded excellent at every Irish show we've been to (about 12 shows) & either won his class or been second or third out of big entries & even has a Reserve Green Star.

Some puppies are like the ugly duckling, give them time and they'll grow into beautiful swans (or dogs lol) well in my opinion he's always been beautiful but i guess i am biast :-D

Thankyou all. I know I am just being silly, and I am going to keep it up, because despite feeling stupid most of the time I do really enjoy it and have met some lovely people who have been very kind to me.

Gemma86, do you mind if I ask what the reasons the judges gave for your placings/gradings were? Were they always the same things? PM me if you prefer.

They both said it was because his eye's weren't tight enough, which then ruined his expression but he was young and teething and now thats finished with his eyes are ok and his expression is lovely

Good luck for your next shows x

>It is so hard not to get your hopes up though,

I've been showing for only 8 years and my first pup was unplaced or last place in breed classes of about 4 or 5 at open shows until 18 months old, sometimes we'd get a 1st if solo in a class LOL.  We were known as the entertainment :-D :-D  I wouldn't even enter a Champ Show until she was 18 months as she only ever kept one foot on the floor     Then her breeder persuaded me to enter a Ch Show and she got a 3rd (out of 15) in Junior and qualified for Crufts!!!!  BOB and CC at the second Ch Show and Champion in 12 shows - unplaced in only one show!  Not bad considering we did so badly at first :-)

I learned to expect to do badly, from having so much practise :-D   and then any placing was great :-D

These days I still expect the worst and hope for the best, at least I'm rarely disappointed ;) 

You are being placed, and you have been told your pup is promising by a judge :-D  Doesn't sound too shabby to me ;)      Don't forget your pup will change and mature, you will have some influence on how your pup matures by the food you give her and the exercise she gets.  Let her enjoy the shows - and enjoy them yourself, if she loves it now then she'll show well for you when she's older :-D

> I know it will take a long time to get 'established' and that I can't expect to do well right away.

Right you've had all these lovely people giving the positives but there is the possibility that your pup is not very good and you would just have to except that fact. The reason I've responded is your use of the word 'established'..... it read as if you thought that your placement was in some way influenced by your 'newness'.
I was talking to a close friend last night (she has bred 7 champions in a numerically very strong breed) and she was talking about reading the breed standard when she got her first show dog. "My dog was perfect, every word described her to a tee.......funny looking back isn't it?"
Everyone is right when they say keep on going... but if this one proves not to be the perfect specimen ......the next one might be ...BUT please don't  think that is because you are new and the judging in someway isn't fair or that only the best handlers win.
In many cases this may be the case..... but good judges find the good dogs and your handling  and presentation will improve. 
When you look back it might be funny too.
Good luck

Sorry, Toolz, I didn't mean 'established' in that way (although I don't doubt faciness goes on and in fact have seen it happen first hand sadly) I meant more that I got to know what I was doing more and more confident etc etc.

I don't expect to end up with a 'world beater' as my first show dog, and I do know her lines are slow to mature, so no doubt that is a factor. Also, on both occasions, the dogs that were placed first were of totally different type to her, and obviously judging is always going to be subjective.

I am determined to keep at it, regardless. Any placing above last would be nice though, or even a bigger class so I could get more of an idea how good she may or may not be. (after all, being last in a class of 20 is far worse than being last in a class of 3!) LOL

Whatever her future holds, she is beautiful to me and I am learning a lot having her. Plus, she is another member of our family and we couldn't love her more. :-)

Thanks once again to everyone who has been kind enought o reply when I am aware I am being silly!

Hi Kirstie, I just wanted to say I am glad you have decided to keep at it - you definitely should, you've only been to 2 shows and you've done well enough in them - don't let it put you off. I have been involved in showing now for nearly 5 years and although I have been attending shows without a dog, I have been lucky enough to pick up a wonderful mentor in that time who has let me show her dogs on occasions, but I also have some great friends that I have met through showing. I have a puppy on the way and I can't wait to get out there and show my own dog.

As long as you and Poppy are having fun, I wouldn't worry - showing should be an enjoyable hobby for the dog and owner at the end of the day. I have to say I don't know the first thing about Goldies but some lines in my breed are slow to mature too and some of these dogs are rarely placed in puppy and junior classes, but do really well as adults. Similarly we have some dogs who look lovely as pups but grow up to be very average...I would definitely stick at it, as long as you enjoy it, a win should be a nice bonus :-)

Keep going, it sounds like you have a promising puppy, and you need loads more opinions than just 2 shows. My girl was awful as a puppy, she is a bit big even now but matured early and as a minor puppy was bigger than most of the Open bitches! She also had a long snipey nose like an English cocker - not good if you're a Cavalier! But it improved gradually, and though her head is still not her best feature, she gets placed at pretty much every open show and has even picked up 5 BOBs!! If your puppy's expression is already improving you will probably get better and better results, also as you get more confident she will be happier. Also make some friends to meet up with at the shows, I don't mind coming away with just a 5th place when my friends have either done well, or at least we can have a little moan together after over lunch! :-)

(although I don't doubt faciness goes on and in fact have seen it happen first hand sadly)   Believing that from the beginning can often be the start of a slippery slope. I don't believe a novice has enough experience to know when a facey place has been carried out. I mean that in the nicest way honestly.

When I first started I used to hear the same old folk moaning about this one and that one ( I am still a novice by the way big time) , I even heard someone say once that there wasn't a good enough dog in the country.. I would have gave my right arm for some of they dogs !!!!!!!!!!!!!   You will always get that "group" of people at shows both open and champs. Just dont turn into one if you can . :-) :-) 

You have to have believe that that statement isn't true and you have to believe "One day" you will get past "them"   ,  "them" NOT being the faces but those who bring out the top drawer stock year after year because they do understand how to run a kennel and produce consistantly good stock.

Honestly as Toolz has said you need a starter dog, it may not be the best nor the worst , maybe just a good overall average quality dog BUT it will be that dog that gets you on your feet and ready for when that top drawer one appears.

One thing always to remember is dont look who is above you all the time, stop and look who was placed or unplaced behind you. :-)

If you can get your hands on a copy of " reaching for the stars"    read it now and then read it again in a few years. Brilliant book..

http://www.4mdogbooks.com/Reaching_for_the_Stars_P450.cfm

(although I don't doubt faciness goes on and in fact have seen it happen first hand sadly)   Believing that from the beginning can often be the start of a slippery slope. I don't believe a novice has enough experience to know when a facey place has been carried out. I mean that in the nicest way honestly.

I don't want to go into too much detail, as it might be obvious who I am talking about, but at the time I assumed the dog was placed where it was because the judge liked that type or it was a good example of the breed. (I didn't get to look at it closely anyway). However, since then, several people, all extremely experienced and successful in my breed, and only one of those was at the same show, and so have noting to prove or lose by saying it, have told me the dog isn't a good example and has been beaten every other time it has been in the ring.

It was merely an offhand comment. I do not consider it when I am in the ring, or going to shows, and it really has no bearing on me if it does exist. It is not 'sour grapes' on my part and I accept that my pup may well not be (and probably isn't!) the best pup I will ever have (by show standards only, of course! :-)) I am actually also a lot more relaxed about it now than I was when I first posted and have just put it down to experience and am looking forward to the next show.

I'd love to look at who was placed behind me, if anyone was! LOL But on a more serious note, I would be amazingly thrilled if I even beat one dog. (which I already have and which was far more than I expected to do on the day!)

Many Thanks for the book reccomendation, I will have a look at it, and probably buy it. :-)

Excellent post Blue.

I had already been a bit negative with Jackson and didn't pick up on the 'facey' experience but you are so right.....someone must have told her this was the case, a novce wouldn't have known which dog should have won. It's just amazing how quickly these poison-drippers get to work on newbies.

> However, since then, several people, all extremely experienced and successful in my breed, and only one of those was at the same show, and so have noting to prove or lose by saying it, have told me the dog isn't a good example and has been beaten every other time it has been in the ring.
>

Sorry Jackson.... even if this were right..just think of the poor person who won. When you've got your high flyer.. these kind people will be saying this about you. Sad but true.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reaching-Stars-Pure-Roslin-Williams/dp/0944875645

Just saw it on the UK Amazon Jackson. Honestly if one thing you buy this year buy that.  I can't recommend it highly enough. Although Labrador breeder it applies to anyone truely interesting in making a go of it it any breed. :-)  good luck.

I've just bought a copy on ebay cheaper and there are still more for sale.

> I'd love to look at who was placed behind me

I get so anxious before I go in the ring, then I'm concentrating so hard on pointing in the right direction when I am in that I often haven't noticed who I'm in there with til I come out, or come home and check the results!!  One day I'm hoping that the boy and I might be relaxed enough for me to take a proper look around  :)

My first show dog was always last or thrown out through puppy and junior classes...and we did quite a few LOL.In his first post grad class he won!He was always one of those 'marmite' dogs...the judges loved him or hated him. He is now in semi retirement having won 2 RCCS(not much by many peoples standards I know but means the world to me).
So in my opinion...carry on.2 shows is nothing...at least give your dog the chance to mature and in the mean time have some fun and get seen in the ring!
Nikki

>I get so anxious before I go in the ring, then I'm concentrating so hard on pointing in the right direction when I am >in that I often haven't noticed who I'm in there with til I come out, or come home and check the results!!  One day >I'm hoping that the boy and I might be relaxed enough for me to take a proper look around

So do I !!!

On the weekend I was talking a very successful breeder/owner in our breed.  I was astonished to hear that he is just as nervous as I am before going in the ring   We were both having our breakfast at 3pm after being in the breed ring LOL  (I'd been up since 4.30am :( )  neither of us could swallow any food until then :(

I just wanted to add to this thread that I am totally over myself now, and quite embarrassed I even posted it!

I am just going to enjoy myself from now on! :-) and hopefully stop worrying.....

Just to say i have seen many tricks in the ring and picked up on them myself, just be aware of you is either side of you and that your dog can be seen and is not being hidden by another dog or that someone is not running their dog too closely behind yours. Many more i know but these are the ones i have personally experienced.

Another show i was at a well established breeder was standing next to me and mentioned how nervous she still gets, even though she has had a top winning bitch. That made me feel a lot better and we even got placed above her dog(who personally i thought was lovely and a great example of the breed). She didn't get placed and my friend said he face was a picture. The judge wasn't a breed judge, so goes to show that it's not always the same people winning and getting placed and to some people faces don't mean a thing.

Keep going and i may see you at some shows. Going to start getting back into them now my boy had bulked out a bit, shame we have missed most Junior classes and going up again to the bigger boys..

i think what keeps us going is that little chance of doing well. Like every so often you may not come last and get a sniff of "doing well"- it spurs you onto continue. like a bad addition!

At the Wales Champ show we got thrown out of our class, i nearly cried!- he was the most mature pup and deserved a place! The next show, he goes and gets 2nd and the judge is full of complements- so i went from wanting to quit, to being more determined than ever in one weekend!

I have to say i do Obedience too, so every time i do badly in one of the sports i always think to myself, "well at least i have the other to fall back on"!

I think the world of competition is about how well you can take the heart ake when your dream is falling apart around you.

Least you've managed to qualify for Crufts!- were still working on that. Sad but there always 2010!! ha ha!