I am hoping that someone can shed some light on how realistically can a judge award a RCC to a minor puppy when it is so immature and has in no way finished growing let alone developing.

I was under the impression that a minor puppy can only go as far as junior warrant award and then progress up to SHCM and the likes of CC's and RCC

An experienced judge can recognise exceptional promise. It's not often a puppy gets a CC or RCC, but it's not impossible. It's a bit damning for the rest of the exhibits ...

They are supposed to judge the dog in front of them on the day. A puppy that gets the CC or RCC may be very good at that age, but far too mature for its age. That way it will look good in the line-up so will be placed highly. In a couple of years time it may have 'gone over' so you won't see it in the ring as it won't be able to compete against much slower maturing puppies that will be correct for its age. There are one or two judges that seem to be able to find good ones as very young minor puppies and place them because of the potential that they see.

I recieved a RCC for my puppy  at 11m in classes of 10 in puppy and junior from a breed specialist judge with many years experience she beat many champions that day we have massive entries in our breed  and I imagine a few noses were put out of joint.I bred my girl myself , dont enter many shows in fact quite new as have only been showing for just over 3 years I believe she was judged on her merits has been consistently placed since, I have taken her out for a few months to let her jacket mature.

Our current top winning dog got his first CC in the puppy class at Crufts.

He has just at 6 years of age had his latest Group win at Midland counties, and has equalled or improved on the male breed record which is quite some feet as we only have 19 sets of CC's and judges coming around again within 18 months.  In the past we had up to 28 sets.

Why not?  If he/she is everything a pup at the age should be in the breed or more then they deserve to win.  There's been quite a few times when to me a pup in a breed has looked the most exceptional there but has not been pulled for BB or BD when myself and other have thought that they should have.

I was under the impression that a minor puppy can only go as far as junior warrant award and then progress up to SHCM and the likes of CC's and RCC

Why?

Angela

There are only limits on how far a pup can win under the FCI system, though a puppy winning 3 CC's cannot become a champion until it wins another over the age of 12 months..

Although it can become a Youth Champion. It requires five CC's to be a champion as an adult and these must be awarded by at least three different judges. :). At least that is how it is in Germany.

> In a couple of years time it may have 'gone over' so you won't see it in the ring as it won't be able to compete against much slower maturing puppies that will be correct for its age.

Can't say I agree with you there Linda.   Mia won a RCC as a puppy, she was titled by the age of 3 years and 10 months, then still went on to win another RCC & CC after that but I feel that there's no point in over campaigning a dog, it doesn't make it's title any better.  The proof to me of it's greatness, is what it gives to the future of the beed in it's progeny.

> I was under the impression that a minor puppy can only go as far as junior warrant award and then progress up to SHCM and the likes of CC's and RCC

A ShCM has nothing to do with championship show wins.  The only way you can win it is by campaigning a dog at open shows and any age of dog can win a ShCM.

>Although it can become a Youth Champion. It requires five CC's to be a champion as an adult and these must be awarded by at least three different judges. . At least that is how it is in Germany.

We don't have 'Youth Champions' in the UK. Three CCs, from three different judges, are required to become a Champion here, and at least one of those CCs must have been won when the dog was over 12 months.

In Germany do existing Champions also compete for the available CCs as they do here?

> In a couple of years time it may have 'gone over' so you won't see it in the ring as it won't be able to compete against much slower maturing puppies that will be correct for its age.

Christine, I did say may have gone over, it depends on the dog/bitch ;-)

I don't think there is anything wrong in giving it to a puppy, if it deserves it. It's when everyone looks at it and wonders why it got top honours that you start thinking something funny is going on :-)

Hi Jan,

The Champions also compete for the CC's as in the UK, but there are also champion classes, so there should be a fair chance of a Champion in the making making it to the BOB line up.:) Indeed my slowly maturing youngest bitch was in this position as a pup against two champions, needless to say the CC went to the Bitch Ch.

Although she was the best on the day, I had my eye on her when we had gotten ringside before judging had started LOL

> I don't think there is anything wrong in giving it to a puppy, if it deserves it

Then your opinion would have to be better than the judges on the day wouldn't it? If the judge thought that it was an exceptional specimen and perfect for it's age, then why not give it top honours?

The breed record holder in boxers - Black Magic 54CCs won green cards as a puppy as did the previous record holder Glory Lass. Although many ringside critics may have disagreed and thought 'something funny is going on' over 50 other judges agreed with them.