It's just been announced that Pedigree won't be at Crufts next year.

Gosh. That will leave some costing issues! To be honest, although won't miss them in any way myself, that seems utterly unprofessional at this stage.

M.

talk about jumping on the bandwagon!!!!!!!!!!!

Well they were not doing show side of things anyway so this doesn't really surprise me.  About time that the public stopped buying their food anyway!

> About time that the public stopped buying their food anyway!

I agree,and it seems a tad hypocritical of a company that's been on the BUAV list of food to avoid (because of their testing policies) for years.I don't even pick up the freebies(apart from anything else their food and treats are all full of ingredients that give one of my dogs colitis).

I take it the reason they are pulling out is the same as RSPCA etc?

I actually think that will leave a big hole in the middle of that floor.  My kids used to love going round while we were showing to see how much free food they could get :)

Article here..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/24/crufts-pedigree-sponsorship

It will be interesting to see if the entry fees and admission charges go up this year. £500,000 is a lot for the KC to lose. 

I can't see how it is over the BBC program, Pedigree as their name suggests have always promoted pedigree dogs, are they just going to target the crossbreed market now, somehow I think not.

It will be interesting to see if Pedigree lose a lot of business. It doesn't fill me with warm feeling for them (and what will they do about their name ;-))

I just orederd some puppy packs (the free ones) and they said they wont be doing them in the near future either

There will be other sponsors willing to step in. I wonder if they will still claim that the winners are all fed on their food ?

I think the only thing I'll miss about them is the free map you get on your way in, that has helped a few times when I first started going.

I think Pedigree's return from the sponsership of Crufts was already on the wain long before any programme was thought about to be honest and I think economics is also playing a very big part in this decision.  I wonder if they will also pull out of  presenting Westminster?

> I think Pedigree's return from the sponsership of Crufts was already on the wain long before any programme was thought about to be honest

I agree.  Many companies are severely cutting back on advertising and sponserships in the current climate and, in fact, Pedigree have been down sizing on this front for quite some time. 
What I can't work out is if they are capitalising on the programme to disguise a business move or whether it is merely the media who are cultivating that impression.  Has anyone read any specific statements anyway in which that actually point the finger at the show world?
Have just found their statement here
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5008996.ece
which certainly does not appear to be in anyway supporting the claims made in that programme.

i have not bought their food in over 18 month's and even then it was only the tin's of puppy food , i think it is a pity the likes of arden grange are not doing tinned puppy food , i have already asked them about it , and hopefully by the time i bred my own tt litter which wont be for another two years or so , that there wil be a replacement to pedigree

>It will be interesting to see if the entry fees and admission charges go up this year. £500,000 is a lot for the KC to lose

It may be a large chunk of cash to lose, but lets face it, there are other dog shows at the NEC which manage to carry on ;)   Perhaps Crufts will be a better show without all the hype of the BBC and Pedigree ;)

>Perhaps Crufts will be a better show without all the hype of the BBC and Pedigree 

You mean ... perhaps it will become a dog show again and not a shopping-fest? Perish the thought! ;) ;)

AWWW

JG don't spoil my dream!

I would LOVE Crufts to become a dog show again, there are another 361 days of the year to shop if people want to ;)

I think it would be wonderful to be a dog show again and not the Ideal home exhibition for dogs !!

Peanuts

I won't miss pedigree at cruft,don't feed there food, puppies &adults get fresh and nature diet, with a bit of luck the space they take can be given over to the dog's.
thats what the show is about.
maybe the kc can take into account the dogs and exibitor as if not for them the names that do all the winning would not have a show be at crufts or any other champ show.
its about tim it was the best dog on the day not who is on the end of the lead.

not sour grapes as have had bob twice and a group placing at crufts
just my opinion

ginastarr - there are plenty of good quality wet puppy foods around, naturediet/nature's harvest/nature's menu to name a few. I wouldn't go near PC with a barge pole.

I have been visiting Crufts since 1961.  When I think of Crufts I always think of Olympia and watching Best In Show leaning over the balcony.  I think in those days there was just the breed judging  and the obedience championships.  Last year I had a friend showing in Hall 1, my breed was in Hall 5.  I promised I would walk over to see her and decided that I could only do it if I took my dog with me, there is no way I would have left him benched.  We gave up, it was not safe to walk him through the halls after he got clouted on the head by someone rushing past.  I think it's  a shame that you cannot safely walk round a dog show with a dog, or am I expecting too much. 

>I think it's  a shame that you cannot safely walk round a dog show with a dog, or am I expecting too much.

I had a similar experience last year :(

Was going to have a look at the Elkhounds in the hall furthest from our breed (I think Hall5 from Hall1) decided that there was NO way I could take the dog - too dangerous for her :( so OH stayed with her and I went walkabout.  It took 3/4 of an hour and I left before 9am and by the time I got there it was time to get back for the Bedlington judging :(  No time to look at the Elkhounds, no time to say hello to Brainless - couldn't even find her :(

At one point I was going to shout FIRE! - only the thought of being arrested stopped me ;)

At one point I was going to shout FIRE! - only the thought of being arrested stopped me 

LOL I haven't shown at Crufts before (qualified but didn't go ) We are on Thurs this year and with RSPCA,Dogs Trust and now pedigree dropping out, I will be entering and hopefully will be able to get around with my dog at a dog show without some brat 2 year old mauling my dog! :-( as happened to someone I know last year (before anyone starts- I have kids who know how to behave around dogs).

> No time to look at the Elkhounds, no time to say hello to Brainless - couldn't even find her :(
>
> At one point I was going to shout FIRE! - only the thought of being arrested stopped me ;)

Well I had arranged to have a dog I bred eye tested as my girl who was booked in had come in season.

It was so crowded that I ended up standing in front and very loudly and officiously proclaiming to the crowds 'Excuse me, Show dogs coming through' and we got through no problem.

I have no idea what the crowds thought of me (not nice things I am sure) but we got through.

I was red to the ear roots, but thought what the hell it is a dog show and the dogs should take precedence.

> It was so crowded that I ended up standing in front and very loudly and officiously proclaiming to the crowds 'Excuse me, Show dogs coming through' and we got through no problem.
>

I just walk through with my elbows out at right angles to me and to hell with anyone that gets in my way!   I hate crowds, I hate shopping & the Crufts crowds seem to be the most dawdling shoppers ever!

>I hate shopping & the Crufts crowds seem to be the most dawdling shoppers ever!

That's so true.  At one point while I was trying to get to hall5 I thought I'd started walking backwards   At that point even the shops were moving faster than I was!

Oh I'm Hoping this year Pedigree's space will be passed over to the YKC being able to have a slightly larger ring again! 

And then mayby, just possibly, slightly more space to move round so I can easilly access Hall 1, 3 and 5 which typically are the 3 halls I was in last year with two breeds and YKC!

I wouldn't mind if costs were cut due to lack of sponsorship.  I wouldn't mind maybe having the place cards abit smaller, not so much fancy lighting in the main ring etc.

I don't want pedigree prizes and freebies, I want to go to a dog show which is seen as the show of the year that most people make an effort to attend from all over the world.  Not a flouncy craft fair with lots fo stalls selling stuff!  That to me is more what DD is about :)

I agree with everyone about hopefully a bit more spce will benefit everyone, do feel sorry for those who were expecting to collect the various Pedigree "bits of crystal" awards, whcih usually happens on the Pedigree main stand, with pics taken.  Maybe the  prizes will just be posted out, which is a bit of a let down for the last year the comps. will be run by Pedigree.

Having read the press release in the Mail it does look as if the press have just taken a huge jump and are linking this pull out with the RSPCA?TV programme thing, the press release just sounds like it is a continutation of the general abandonment of hte show scene.  Was interested to read they are planning on giving full support ot the online breeder service, wonder how many breeders will actually carry on and use it?

> Having read the press release in the Mail it does look as if the press have just taken a huge jump and are linking this pull out with the RSPCA?TV programme thing, the press release just sounds like it is a continutation of the general abandonment of hte show scene.

I agree, the timing is appalling :( TBH I'm disgusted with Pedigree. Pulling out of the "regular" show scene was bad enough, but to continually reassure everyone that they would be supporting Crufts as usual and then pull out less than five months before the show is disgraceful. Not to mention by pulling out now it was obvious this move would be lumped in with the RSPCA/Dog Wardens/Dogs Trust/"that programme" and so adding more fuel to the fire.

I think Pedigree have made a pure marketing decision and nothing to do with 'that programme'.
IMO It had already decided that there were too many premium dog foods aimed at the pedigree dog market and saw a niche in the non- pedigree one.
I would not be at all suprised if they change their name and profile to come in line with non show people. Clever if they can pull it off and the 'programme' helped them in aligning themself with hybrid vigour, something it would appear, the general public think is exclusive to mongrels :-(  A very lucrative market now.

> I think Pedigree have made a pure marketing decision and nothing to do with 'that programme'.

I totally agree as the first moves towards this, which also cost people their jobs, were before the programme was screened and  I don't think they were given inside information.

Hi toolz

Sorry to quibble, but surely hybrid vigour is the preserve of mongrels, cross and mix breeds in reality as well as the public mind? :)

While obviously not all crosses or mixes will necessarily be healthier than pedigrees, purebreds may be healthy, but can't possess hybrid vigour. Here's what wikipedia has to say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosis 

Or am I missing something? Julie

>but surely hybrid vigour is the preserve of mongrels, cross and mix breeds in reality as well as the public mind? 

Maybe in the public mind, but not in reality. As a hybrid is a cross between two closely-related species (such as horse and donkey), crossbreeds and mongrels aren't hybrids! True hybrids are usually sterile (like mules).

If the article that was posted on another thread is to be believed then some vigour can be achieved by mating dogs of the same breed but that are total outcrosses as far as lines go.

> I totally agree as the first moves towards this, which also cost people their jobs, were before the programme was screened and  I don't think they were given inside information.

As do I, which is why the timing was so lousy ;)

In our breed, going back over many generations, it has been said that out crossed litters are generally more robust and healthier than their inbred counterparts.  Many German breeders have out crossed successfully and certainly we are at the stage now in show lines in the UK where we need to bring in unrelated blood.  As unrelated as it can be in the same breed but through unrelated lines.  Many breeders in the UK are doing this now and certainly to be fair, many GSD breeders, worldwide are aware of the dangers of bottlenecks in the gene pool.   Some vigour can be achieved by outcrossing and bringing in unrelated blood, and also by bringing in blood from another breed.

BTW, That does not mean that I am saying that mongrels, cross and mix breeds are generally healthy than pedigrees as a rule.  In most cases, these are 2 lines mated together with no thought, knowledge or regard as to what is carried in the linage. 

My husband was listening to a radio chat show on Saturday morning and it said that they are pulling out of Crufts as a direct result of the programme.  Not sure who they were talking to though and he was driving home from nights so not firing on all cylinders. ;)

> My husband was listening to a radio chat show on Saturday morning and it said that they are pulling out of Crufts as a direct result of the programme.

Several newspapers have made it sound the same but I have not seen anything from Pedigree to suggest that was the reason and I have also heard Caroline Kisco this weekend on the radio pointing out that this notion is erroneous and that Pedigree have been redirecting their marketing for some time and that their sister companies have not withdrawn from Crufts.

This was definately someone speaking from pedigree who said it.  Who knows could have been the tea boy giving the interview. :)

If they have stated that I would have expected it will be more broadly reported.  Certainly at Saturday teatime on Radio 4 Caroline was still being broadcast stating this was not the reason and there was no such comment from Pedigree at that time.

I don't think it will matter much who says what unfortunately - the timing with which this has occurred will ensure that the GP will make a direct link to the documentary and the RSPCA / DT withdrawing already.  In fact, chances are it will have an even greater impact on the public's suspicions of the dog show scene because of the brand name, years of TV ads and high profile which this company has enjoyed for decades in the pet food industry.

The documentary flagged the 'no smoke without fire' fears and, like it or not, post doc events have ensured spontaneous combustion!

I'm amazed the KC and Pedigree did not have some sort of contract to ensure that this kind of thing couldn't happen at this late stage, to be honest.

I can't believe that many organisations would have a £0.5 million 'order' with any company without some sort of contract around compensation for termination where it will affect the organisation, particularly as this appears to come under the termination for convenience banner.

For what it's worth, I think Pedigree are using the current climate as an excuse myself.

M.

Although most exhibitors I think do not use their products on a day to day basis some have used the breeder facilities and the porridge etc etc   A lot of people do use pedigree on puppies and then change over etc. It is time for all that to stop.  Stop using their products at all.    I think in the long run Pedigree will still get a shock at how their inappropriate timng may back fire on them.

I think it was very sad they used this opportunity to boost their own business , it was free marketing really.

I agree.  I bait on gravy bones and it is costing a lot more to get them from the supermarket plus if you ran out there was always a stall there with them on.

I usually do start my puppies on canned pedigree puppy until they get their teeth.

Yesterday on BBC2 they stated in the news Pedigree had pulled from Crufts and pedigree claim it's not related to the BBC program recently viewed.

I cant understand why the KC allowed them the chance to stay in Crufts when they pulled out of the rest of the shows. Does anyone know if they are still sponsoring shows in other countries? I know they used to sponsor in the USA? 

Seems Hills have pulled out too, anther food mine never got on with.

Why not it means the floorspace is being paid for but also can be used to point out that Pedigree is not against Crufts, just that they can't finacially justify the expence of sponsership anymore.

> Or am I missing something?

yes, as already stated by others a cross is not a hybrid. also i would take anything you read on wiki with a pinch of salt, its not an accurate reference.