http://www.pestpro.co.uk/portal/images/msds/phostoxin.pdf

Its authorised by Rentokil.

There is no antidote for it and my dog has ingested some somehow, maybe through a small animal which had it in its system.
It takes around 30 hours after ingestion by a small animal to die. Is this a humane of killing and dealing with rodents and the like. I think not.
I myself will be onto Rentokil tomorrow and also DEFRA.
Its sickening that there is no antidote....

To add to this i have briefly looked at DEFRA website and searched Phostoxin and it states that Cyanide is more humane for a rabbit than this stuff. That is very worrying.

Just read it :( :(

And to think... Foxhunting with dogs was banned because it was cruel - but this is allowed!!!!! :( :( :(  This is appalling!

Just spoken to a friend who used to work in pest control and they banned cyanide a while back due to it being inhumane on animals.

All it takes for this,is to rain and then this can saturate the ground. Pellets or fumigation, this can affect puddles around the areas etc.

I cant open this can someone please put it on this thread.

If you google Phostoxin and then go down to the data summary sheet its all there from Rentokil.

The link works for me..

Scary reading

There are much quicker and more humane methods of killing vermin than poisoning or gassing   I can't believe that they are still allowed.  Must be because other methods are more labour intensive :(

My friend said for moles they would lay traps and then the mole would go in and it would snap its back and kill it instantly.

I'm not one for killing animals, but some see them as pests and i think the most humane way is instantly. In my eyes is torture otherwise.

Totally agree ;)

My dogs' parents are working ratters (as well as showdogs! )  and they do the job quickly and efficiently.  No half measures, they arrive at a farm and the rats are located and then dealt with.  The rats die instantly, no messing around, no taking hours/days to die in agony.

Can't believe such torture is legal :(  not to mention indescriminate :( :(

Is it possible this stuff could have been used on the golf course to kill moles? presumably, if it's been raining and gets into puddles it's easy for any mammal to ingest the poison? It says on the site that it is dangerous for humans too.

This reminds me of a spate of cat deaths in, I think, the Sussex area recently. They reckon it was anti-freeze used in domestic ponds etc.. the cats were drinking from the pond water.

Where in Sussex were these cats? This is where i am, would be helpful to know.
They have said its not anti-freeze in my boy body but all the same my Bernese jumps into all kinds of puddles, streams and ponds.

Thanks

Hi,
sorry, my mistake, not Sussex but Somerset and also in Cowes, Isle of Wight. In Somerset 18 cats killed in a very short space of time. Still, given that anti freeze is so lethal it's as well to be aware. Seems that there is now a risk drinking from puddles too. I really think that legislation on use of these poisons needs to be tightened up.

Round my way people use rat and mice poison regularly. I live in a street of victorian terrace houses where rodents do spread quickly and I always worry that my dog will catch one that's had a dose of something.

Still hoping all going well for your boy.

The vets are now saying that there is no toxin test for this so actually no way of finding out for definate and being able to put any blame anywhere.

So no test to confirm and no antidote

Why would anyone put antifreeeze in a pond??  It would kill all life in the pond very quickly   all you'd be left with is an unfrozen pool of lifeless water  

I have read of people putting a spot of antifreeze in birdbaths to stop the water for the birds freezing - no-one sees the birds that fly away die of poisoning :( :(  don't know if its dome anymore tho

i've emailed the company who sell this and use it for any helpful guidance.. Just waiting now for a response from them.

I wouldnt hold out much hope of getting a proper reply
As they will not reply anything that may make them liable!!!!!
As long as they have followed Defra rules then they are covered. If you want to know more about using chemicals I have a licence, but only a Pa1 and Pa6 for herbicides and pasticides. Not the one for killing rabbits etc.
But if you need the number to talk to defra i can find it in all my paper work at the office.
I hope it isnt the chemicalk, but if someone has been using it not to the rules and regs I hope they are dealt with.
Keeping everything crossed that your pup gets better
Lea
xxx

Anti freeze in bird baths?? My Mum always used glicerine as I remember.

Glycerine is perfectly safe.

The antifreeze that animals sometimes drink is spilled antifreeze from when motorists have prepared their cars for winter. Antifreeze is very sweet (there was a scandal some years ago when it was added to Austrian wine as a cheap sweetener, and many people became ill - I think there were even fatalities) so dogs and cats lap up any spillages.

I have been doing a lot of research into this Phostoxin. It appears in America there is some form of test to confirm if a person has been poisoned by this, though again no antidote out there.
There is also the fact i have read that secondary poisoning can take place if a dog eats enough of an infected carcus/or live rabbit.

I have found a link of what occurs in humans when infected and to be honest many of the symptoms Bentley had.
It comes under acute poisoning..

Do we have such a thing over here like they do in the States called Poison control?
I'm not sure who are the best people to talk to first about this without causing too much of a stir as this would upset my father immensely. Defra i know are the last people as they would go full steam aboard.
I was thinking about the BVA on the first instance, what do you guys reckon?
I need to do something in order to prevent other people and pets coming to harm.

> Do we have such a thing over here like they do in the States called Poison control?
>

I believe there is. When I was a toddler, i manadged to get into my dads oil paints and eat some Cadmium Yellow (very toxic paint), the tube was taken with me to hospital and the hospital phoned poisen control (or whatever they are called) to get relevent details for treatment. Luckily, allthough I apparently turned some funny colours I was right as rain after a short stay in hospitll!

I've found a list of European poison centres, I hope this is of some help to you.

You should contact the HSE in the first instance.

Hi,

I think your first port of call should be the Wildlife Incident Investigation Scheme. This is a government sponsored organisation ,based at the Central Science Laboratory. They investigate all reported incidents of wildlife and pet deaths, where there is suspected use of pesticide. They use a combination of fieldwork, vet examination and chemical analysis to determine what has happened and culprits, if any. They produce quarterly reports and can advise on legal proceedings.

Suspected incidents can be reported to freephone:0800 321600 and look up website www.pesticides.gov.uk for WIIS.

If your vet doesn't know about them then tell them, in case they have others cases from your area.

It may be too late now but try them anyway, they seem like the best people to advise you and to get your local area investigated and to answer other questions you may have. In adddition, phostoxin is fatal to humans too, so any misuse needs to be nailed down sooner rather than later.

I hope this helps you.   

Just spoken to my dad and he has spoken to the vets who have contacted poison control over here and liaised with other organisations about this. They are very concerned about what has happened and they want to know how this can be avoided if it happens to another animal.

Apparently Rentokil had nothing to do with this it was privately put down, so no pest control company did this.. Hmmm.
Apparently it is very easy to get hold of through agriculteral companies. My dad said its always advertised in farming magazines, you call up and order it.

I think i may just leave it for now and see what the vets come up with, they have more clout than me alone.

Though found some interesting reading on it through some American websites, many with lots of backed up research.

Good, I'm glad poison control etc.. have been contacted and I'm sure your vet will follow through.

Just make sure though that they are in touch with the WIIS, because they are the organisation that will properly investigate what has gone on, including a thorough examination of the local environment. The abuse of pesticides and poisons is solely what they were set up for.

I think it is shocking that something so lethal is so freely available and ,clearly, so open to misuse. Seems it might be time to lobby for new leglisation and increased controls around this stuff.

I know it must be horrible for you and your father to have to go through all this so close to Bentley's death, but some real good may come of it.

If no pest control company put it down, andthe person that did didnt have the relevant cerificates they should be able to prosecute the person that and maybe the Golf course. As that chemical you MUST have a licence to use it!!!! Even if you can buy it from agricultural supplies, you are acting illegally if you use it without a licence!
If it was someone with a licence, then they should ask too see all the paper work that you MUST fill n every time you use chemicals and make sure it was all done correctly to Defra Specification, if not again they can get up to a £20,000 fine per rule breaking!!!!
But as it has been reported to the organisations they will be looking into this anyway.
I hope they can get to the bottom of it all.
Lea :)

As a bird keeper and breeder of many parrots and parakeets I can say that on no account should any chemical based products be put into birds water to prevent freezing. Glycerine is not safe or salt.