You seem to have it about right. I live with my OH run a business with him, walk dogs with him. BUT I would go stark staring mad if I could not get away to have a long bath, paint my toe nails, have a facial ect with him around. Plus he has daughters to go see, scouts, mates and the odd business thing that I would be bored rigid to go to.  I think the problem is TRUST she dont trust the b---er!!!

No we work on "if you dont want to go that does not mean I cant" agreement. Hence we have been together over 18 years now. And he is still the man I want to end my life with and still fancy like mad....

Ive been cheated on far too many times - 4 i think. One guy even got another girl pregnant while with me. I did have huge trust issues but now ive met the right person my worries have gone out the window.
If you dont trust someone you shouldnt be with them

Is it a little naive to say "I trust >insert name< 100%"? I don't think anyone is 100% trustful/foolproof..There's always a first time.
You can think/hope that the partner wouldn't cheat,but i don't know how any of us could be 100% certain.

well said Ktee- we are afterall, only human and mere mortals!

Ktee.. so in otherwords you are saying you never trust anyone?   I find that quite sad.. I have tended to find its those who I DO trust, that have never let me down.. and there are many people I would put my full trust in.. and they could do the same with me..

But thats really neither here nor there.. the whole issue I was questioning.. is.. If you dont trust a partner, to the extent that you demand they make promises.. just to not go to a party.. what is the point in staying in that type of relationship.. its a downward spiral..

There HAS to be trust to make a partnership (of any sort) work... surely?

> I think the problem is TRUST she dont trust the b---er!!!

indeed.

i trust my bf totally (except to do things i ask/ find things as he's rubbish at it :)) but i know he'd never betray my trust. he'd certainly never cheat as he is very much against that. and i know he trusts me to :)

Kayc i would just never say i would trust a partner 100% to never be unfaithful. And no, I've never been cheated on,so am not talking out of bitterness ,but as a previous poster said we are but mere mortals,men especially so :-p

I have been in this situation (sort of).  My ex OH left for a vacation to Chilli for 3 months without even telling me he was planning it, let alone he was going!!!! 
When he got back, I was mad for the longest time, as he would ask where I was going, who with, etc. Now we have broken up, but still sorta friends.  I get mad, though, as he still gets angry when I go on little trips to visit family and I am longer than what I said I was going to be (like last week, I was only supposed to go for the fair, but ended up staying the week). 
Why are men like that????  ARG

yes.. we may be all mortals.. to surely to be tarred with the same brush is wrong.. many of us mere mortals are trustworthy... ... but you have also put yourself in the untrustworthy category, since you lump yourself in with the mere mortal theory..

Oh.. and why 'men especially so'... if.. as we think men can be swayed so easily.. surely its the 'woman' who is encouraging it.. that in my book, would make the ' woman more especially so'... if men can be tempted, its woman that puts temptation their way ;-)

again.. neither here nor there..

back my original question.. again... Why.. do people stay with someone they so obviously distrust.. regardless of whether they are actually trustworthy or not... everyone is an individual.. and and has the right to make their own decisions.. no-one has the right to demand they do or dont do anything..

I think its habit sometimes. Many people of both sexes have a fear of being alone. I think everyone should try it. Until you accept who you are, until you like who you are, and enjoy your own company. Then you can freely engage in a relationship without the fear of being alone. I had a brother who would do anything not to be alone, now he's v. happily married but he would cling on to relationships to avoid waking up alone.

Time alone (with me) goes so quickly before I know it I have to get a meal, shop or walk the houndrills, I prefer being with OH but even he can get on my nerves if I have had a busy week and all I want is a bath, a facial and a book.

Then all systems back on track I can be the perfect partner again (well acceptable partner). But its taken my a long long time to relaise that time apart is a good thing, and we dont have to share every hobby, like ect.. It takes experiance as well to let them have a long rope and be satisfied in your own mind that he will not hang himself with it!!

>Many people of both sexes have a fear of being alone. I think everyone should try it. Until you accept who you are, until you like who you are, and enjoy your own company. Then you can freely engage in a relationship without the fear of being alone

I think that has hit the nail firmly on the head Whisler.. very well put

> Kayc i would just never say i would trust a partner 100% to never be unfaithful. And no, I've never been cheated on,so am not talking out of bitterness ,but as a previous poster said we are but mere mortals,men especially so

Ktee.......It was me that said I trust my o/h 100% and I do untill I ever find out otherwise.
Then believe you me he would be out the door on the end of my boot with his packed suitcase,no second chances and I wouldnt shed a nights sleep over it....Game over job done,Goodnight vienna.

Call me harsh but thats just the way I would be,its called self preservation,stops me being hurt again.
We are together cos we chose to be.we are both happy and If one of us ever decides we dont want to be together,then we wont be simple as that.Dont ever stay where youre not happy is my motto

Ktee- i disagree. I can say hand on my heart, my chap would never cheat. I trust him 100% and would trust him with my life. I am the one who knows him best so only i can judge. I have been cheated on in the past and have been in relationships where there was little trust. Becuase of this i am even more certain my man would never do that.

Is it a little naive to say "I trust >insert name< 100%"? I don't think anyone is 100% trustful/foolproof..There's always a first time.
You can think/hope that the partner wouldn't cheat,but i don't know how any of us could be 100% certain

I wouldnt agree with that at all im afraid :)

I know for certain I would never cheat on someone, no offence to anyone here who has cheated as each to their own, but I couldnt rip someones heart out of their chest and stamp on it with my dirty feet after being in a loving relationship with them, I just cant bear the thought of hurting someone that much as in my own eyes cheating on someone is pure evil and cheaters when found out should be chucked out of the home straight away and no second chances at all.
Just my view of course and everyones different but Ive seen the devasting effects of people who have been cheated on and its terrible for all involved and breaks trust for their whole life possibly so I could never be liable for that, no way!!

If you feel your a possible cheat then dont start a relationship or if your in a relationsip and feeling tempted by someone then end the relationship your in so no one gets hurt and traumitised to the point of not trusting anyone ever again or even having more extreme endings like I have expieranced. :(

This is just my views :)
I know their extreme but its the way I feel and I dont expect anyone else to feel the same but what a happy world it would be if we all did!

As I mean pretty much do everything together- being going to the bar or parties stuff like that we do NOT go seperately- mind you he has gone to the pub which is not a bar atmosphere but just a bunch of blokes sitting around having a beer and maybe playing some pool or watching the game. He has gone fishing with out me but I was the one that went out and bought the dang fishing rod so he could go and I did say so since NO girls allowed which Iam fine with then I better not find out there where girls there cause I myself do enjoy fishing and well he can take his son with him, but he has only gone once... Poker well he has played poker with out me and he in return told me Iam not to play poker with out him cause its just the guys that play (which I understand)- then today he's mentioning playing poker at work to waste time and I said well then better be just the guys then and well he got mad-grrr!!! I just gave it back! Right now a lil bitchy cause just had a tiff with hubby lol and have not talked to him since I came home :-( think I will stay this way for awhile :-)

As for the trust issues, not sure if its to me, but thought would answer it...

I dont particulery have trust issues with my oh, i do trust him, but from my last relationship where i was made to trust, then finding out this trust meant nothing and was all a sack of lies, you always 100% after being treated so badly never have with anyone that 100% trust again... i think anyway is a mug if they trust there partner 100% as they should ALWAYS have there wits about them. People have been married to people for years and found they have dead bodies in their cellers! So things like that prove you can never really trust anyone 100% and recently, my sister proved that to me too, my own sister!!!

And with trust for me, because i am aware of how people can be such good liars, i just keep my wits about me and keep my eyes wide open at all times, as that hint of doubt now its been put there will always be there in any partner, but thankfully, i am not as bad with my oh because i know i can trust him deep down, but i still get scared because of the way i have been treated in the past, and its blooming horrible to be treated and knocked down so badly, really shatters your self confidence and any trust you have in anybody what so ever

> You say that you dont want him to go to raves.. fair enough... but he is a person in his own right, and should be able to make up his own mind .. so.. are you not being equally unfair, in making him promise ... who has the right to demand that another person gives up their personality...
>
> no it doesnt make sense.. why not just accept that this is the type of entertainment that he enjoys, while you do 'your thing'..&nbsp;
>
> forcing someone to lie to you is unfair.. we dont have the right to control another person...

I know that, but i am talking about when i first met him, i didnt want to be with someone who was into that, thats my personal choice, he had the choice at the time to say if he was going to be that person or not, he told me he would be... then i find he lied! I wasnt trying to change him, we only knew each other about a week, and that is when i said basically "will you do this or not" and if he said yes i would of gone! As thats my personal choice, but he said no, i didnt force him to make this choice or influence him in anyway, it was a simple answer, and thats why i got so annoyed because he wasnt truthful with me.... however if he had of been, looking back, i dont think i would be with him still, as it was only around a week anyway, so wouldnt of had any feelings, so wouldnt of realy mattered... make sense?

Ohhh and i am not married everyone btw!! lol!! Just my boyfriend... :)

so its not because he cant be trusted or has taken drugs. its simply because you dont like raves. i was wondering if that was so. thing is, he might have said he would not go again because he cared for/loved/was attracted to you very much. but secretly hoped that once you were a fixed item and you were with him for whom he is, you would overcome your prejudice against raves and whilst not relax about it, let him go. this obviously hasnt happened, so he feels no choice but to keep it quiet. im guessing he enjoys raves AND loves you, so didnt tell you to avoid jeopardising you being with him.
if you say that you couldnt go out with someone that loves raves, then surely you should just leave him now?
as its definitely not right to control someone that way, or force your opinions on another that way.
have you considered that you might actually love him very much and that this is more important than your dislike of his acceptable legal hobby? if so, you dont want to jepordise this yourself, as you might find that he can no longer be with someone that cant love him enough to respect him as a person in his own right.

why dont you try going with him?

People are also entitled to change their minds.. it doesn't make them liars or cheats..
;-)

I used to absolutely hate my late husband dissappearing off to sea for 3 or 4 days with his mates, deep sea fishing.. I was terrified something would happen to him.. but I knew how much he enjoyed his hobby.. and it was only 2 or 3 times a year he was able to do it.. and nothing did happen to him... but I would never have dreamed to telling/forcing/ or make him promise never to do it again...

Look on the bright side.. sooner or later he is going to become too old to go to raves ;-)

...It was me that said I trust my o/h 100% and I do untill I ever find out otherwise.
Then believe you me he would be out the door on the end of my boot with his packed suitcase,no second chances and I wouldnt shed a nights sleep over it....Game over job done,Goodnight vienna.

i cant believe the above statement!!  wouldnt you even try to ask why he did it? what happened to forgiving someone? what if he had a good reason like he felt you were treating him badly?   and if you wouldnt loose a nights sleep all i can say is, you cant really love him! life is not black and white, what happens to shades of grey? you are very blinkered (sp)

Nooooo you are not understanding me!!!

How could he love me after a week, seriously!! Love takes months to develop seriously and its not an over night thing!!

He never lied to me about going, i never said that, he has always been completely honest about going... what i am trying to say is, when we met, i asked him about it, as didnt want to be a part of his past and he told me he had changed etc... i beleived him... then when he tells me he is going to one last rave i felt betrayed and lied too... but i have now learnt to live with it, as he himself has even said he needs to grow up!

He has changed from what he used to be in his past but with being lied to a hell of a lot in the past, little things like that trigger big emotions... surly you understand that, however i am living with it and when he goes i am not saying one word... be just glad when he has been and is done with it all!!

If he had been honest i wouldnt of gone out with him in the first place, and its not just the fact about raves, there are other factors involved. you dont know the full story of our relationship, so makes it harder to explain to you

> have you considered that you might actually love him very much and that this is more important than your dislike of his acceptable legal hobby?

This is something my friend said to me at the time, this all happened around a month back now you see... and it actually made me think, and you are right!! I thought... is what we have worth jeapodising for one last rave... answer NO... just wish i had the honesty about it in the first place... and i wouldnt of bothered... but from coming from a relationship where lies are a common occurance i have my eyes peeled wide open and even lying about what colour socks he put on would arise suspicion from me, and thats only because of the way i have been treated... however i am glad in a way i was treated so bad, as it opened my eyes and made me less neive!

Hope this makes sense to you now lol :)

> ...It was me that said I trust my o/h 100% and I do untill I ever find out otherwise.
> Then believe you me he would be out the door on the end of my boot with his packed suitcase,no second chances and I wouldnt shed a nights sleep over it....Game over job done,Goodnight vienna.
>
> i cant believe the above statement!!&nbsp; wouldnt you even try to ask why he did it? what happened to forgiving someone? what if he had a good reason like he felt you were treating him badly?&nbsp;&nbsp; and if you wouldnt loose a nights sleep all i can say is, you cant really love him! life is not black and white, what happens to shades of grey? you are very blinkered (sp)

If this happened to me, i agree kind of with the boot out the door, but i would stop to ask why and get answers... they would of course be meaningless as anger would take over, but i would definately loose sleep over it! However much someone hurts you, if you truly love them, you will still care, and its sad how you do, because thats what happened with my ex, i still wanted him and bent over backwards for him, even tho he treated me so bad, its so hard to let go of someone even when they do treat you bad, but how could you be so cold? surely you didnt mean it that way lol? :) < dont mean that horrid btw!! :)

> ...It was me that said I trust my o/h 100% and I do untill I ever find out otherwise.
> Then believe you me he would be out the door on the end of my boot with his packed suitcase,no second chances and I wouldnt shed a nights sleep over it....Game over job done,Goodnight vienna.
>
> i cant believe the above statement!!&nbsp; wouldnt you even try to ask why he did it? what happened to forgiving someone? what if he had a good reason like he felt you were treating him badly?&nbsp;&nbsp; and if you wouldnt loose a nights sleep all i can say is, you cant really love him! life is not black and white, what happens to shades of grey? you are very blinkered (sp)

Then you obviously chose to ignore the last part of "my statement"

My o/h and I have total respect for each other and we are happy to be together,neither of us will cheat on the other and to my knowledge he hasn't cheated on me and I certainly havent cheated on him.
I am just the way I am,I will not give anyone the satisfaction of thinking they can hurt me....yes I would kick him out if he did cheat and no I wouldnt forgive,just as If i chose to do it to him(which I wont ever) I would fully understand if he chucked me out no second chances.....One a cheat and been forgiven always will be tempted to chance their arm again...why not if O/h forgives and forgets ????
And no I wouldnt ask why he did it because it would be done and I wouldnt be able to turn back time to change it would I,whatever his reason wouldnt be a good enough excuse.

My  o/h are together because we choose to be and we ARE very happy thank you very much , how dare you suggest I dont love him...I find that appalling as you dont me so who are you to make a statement like that ???
I am not blinkered and I agree life is not black and white but if something suits us as a couple why change it?

> what if he had a good reason like he felt you were treating him badly?

thats not a good reason to cheat! if you accept a reason like that i'd suggest you have a good look at your self esteem... there is never a good reason to cheat- if your having problems you don't cheat, you TALK and deal with things.

what if he had a good reason like he felt you were treating him badly?   and if you wouldnt loose a nights sleep all i can say is, you cant really love him! life is not black and white, what happens to shades of grey? you are very blinkered (sp)

Sometimes cheating is just black and white, if someone is being treated badly it is no excuse to cheat, you leave the relationship or talk about it, what good does cheating do? That is the worst excuse on the planet, and anyone that uses it doesn't deserve the time of day IMO.

I think when it comes to cheating you have to know yourself, everyone is different some people can forgive, some can't.

Speaking only for myself in the situation that happened to me when I was young, actually walking in on my fiance and best friend in our bed, it didn't really matter if I forgave, it was more to do with that image was imprinted, I knew it would always pop up, I knew it would ruin any chance of starting again, my finance and friend at the time did a lot of begging and please forgive us etc, my heart wanted to, but I just saw them together the picture was there and I knew things would never be the same, the people I loved and knew were somehow now strangers to me, so why put yourself and partner through trying when it is a dead loss, in my heart and head I knew I wouldn't get over it.

So I did walk, heartbroken but I did, and I know I made the right decision, I don't like deceit, I can't live with it, others may. :-)

So, many people are quite right to say it is black and white if someone cheats, because some of us know we won't get over it, I know I wouldn't, so does my hubby now, who I trust implicitley, he knows if he cheats he is gone, because I wouldn't be able to let it go, it would always sour the future, who wants to be in a relationship that is tainted so badly, some people might, but those of us who say we can't and don't wish to look at the grey, it is not blinkered, just knowing ourselves and what we can live with. :-)

Nooooo you are not understanding me!!!

How could he love me after a week, seriously!! Love takes months to develop seriously and its not an over night thing!!

Hi yorkies - but i said he might have either cared for, loved you, or been very attracted to you

He never lied to me about going, i never said that, he has always been completely honest about going... what i am trying to say is, when we met, i asked him about it, as didnt want to be a part of his past and he told me he had changed etc... i beleived him... then when he tells me he is going to one last rave i felt betrayed and lied too... but i have now learnt to live with it

Ah, i thought you said he went without you knowing?

Going to one last rave doesnt mean he has lied to you about changing.. change doesn't always come straight away, its gradual......sometimes you need to phase away from things in stages...so its quite possible that this rave was his swansong. Maybe it was a special event or had some particular significance?


as he himself has even said he needs to grow up!

that's a good thing, but going to raves doesnt automatically equal not growing up...its just one social activity out of hundreds. its whether or not it is the be all obsession of his life. doesnt sound like thats the case?

He has changed from what he used to be in his past but with being lied to a hell of a lot in the past, little things like that trigger big emotions... surly you understand that, however i am living with it and when he goes i am not saying one word... be just glad when he has been and is done with it all!!

thats understandable and full respects to you for accepting his desire to go. i would say that as you have indicated that you have been effected in the past, then its more of a case of how you perceive things due to previous bad experience. understandably, you have triggers... but this means that when other people do things that trigger bad memories, this means you define there actions and intentions according to this other guy, when they aren't this other guy, so the actions and intentions of this new guy can mean completely different things.

If he had been honest i wouldnt of gone out with him in the first place, and its not just the fact about raves, there are other factors involved. you dont know the full story of our relationship, so makes it harder to explain to you

fair enough. does that mean you shouldnt be with him now then?

however i am glad in a way i was treated so bad, as it opened my eyes and made me less neive!

umm, not to sure if i can agree with your logic there?

Can someone explain what a rave is?
I think i know,but not sure... Is it a place with 'doof doof" music,held underground and a bit hush hush.Mostly frequented by teenagers popping ecstasies and waving glow sticks around?

pretty much.

Can someone explain what a rave is?
I think i know,but not sure... Is it a place with 'doof doof" music,held underground and a bit hush hush.Mostly frequented by teenagers popping ecstasies and waving glow sticks around?

not quite correct. its not hush hush. its a completely legal and hugely advertised activity inside hundreds of legal nightclubs throughout the UK, whereby people dance to DJ's playing techno or house music.
they have been going since about 1990 - age group roughly teens to late 20's.
glow sticks were out of fashion for some time but made a small comeback recently.
some people take drugs. but the drugs scene amongst young people occurs in many different types of social settings. pubs, for example.

> not quite correct. its not hush hush. its a completely legal and hugely advertised activity inside hundreds of legal nightclubs throughout the UK, whereby people dance to DJ's playing techno or house music.
> they have been going since about 1990 - age group roughly teens to late 20's.
> glow sticks were out of fashion for some time but made a small comeback recently.
> some people take drugs. but the drugs scene amongst young people occurs in many different types of social settings. pubs, for example.

Yeah youre right krusewalker about Raves being legal now...when I went to a few in the late 80's however they ones i attended were illegal and very secret,usually in  a field in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night lol.The joy of tramping through fields to get to them in the pitch black with only the sound of the music to guide you lol....fun fun fun!
I had great fun although rave music isnt something ive been into but a friend of mine was at the time so I went with him.
I never took drugs and never actually saw anyone taking them but could tell a few people were on something by their eyes .

Drugs and raves were connected by people who didnt understand them,but no m ore so than what goes on in all different social settings as
krusewalker says

Hi philly, i had some good times as well.
Yes, you are right, illegal raves havent really existed since around 1993.
Simply because the government changed the law and allowed nightclubs to open all night - practically 24/7 - and licensed outdoor raves sprang up. Its all been big mainstream business for about 15 years now.

> Yes, you are right, illegal raves havent really existed since around 1993.
> Simply because the government changed the law and allowed nightclubs to open all night - practically 24/7 - and licensed outdoor raves sprang up. Its all been big mainstream business for about 15 years now.

Kinda took all the fun out of it for me im afaid lol....
Much preffered the old days, oh the memories of them  muddy fields lol

> Much preffered the old days, oh the memories of them&nbsp; muddy fields lol

Ahh the memories!!

I never go to organised dance parties and stuff, its always the 'illegal' raves for me where you have to know where to go to get there :)
Its the only way in my eyes as there seems to be a much better atmosphere then in any club as people arent jammed in together drinking heavily and I never witnessed any violence in the places (or fields) lol I went too and people looked out for each other just in general, plus you could speak to anyone and there was none of that attitude or ' you looking at me' kinda rubbish :)

Yeah youre right krusewalker about Raves being legal now

Raves are legal now lol?
Well when their held in a old abandoned london factory their not which is the only kind I go to lol

Raves will always be around, raves are not the organised dance parties or clubs extended drinking hours and never will be, raves as I know the word are a bunch of mashed people dancing to drum n base/hardcore/extreme hardcore/gabba etc and doing all manners of things either in a muddy field or in abandoned factories, nothing legal about these raves whatsoever!!!
Im not saying that raves arent dying out as they are, but its the lac of people whos killing it and the new crowds moving in abd bringing the different attitude to it, raves arent what they were and to call a dance party a rave to me is an insult when youve been to a proper rave!! :)

> Raves are legal now lol?
> Well when their held in a old abandoned london factory their not which is the only kind I go to lol
>

Rach85....like i said ive not been to any in years so I wouldnt know now as Im not involved with the people who I went with all them years ago  so am out of touch....the only ones ive heard of are the legal kind Krusewalker refers too and they wouldnt be what i would want to be involved with..hence me saying  i prefer the good old days...muddy fields etc.

I always went to illegal ones but I never saw any drug taking and i didnt take owt myself ,but I knew it went on like I said i could tell by peoples eyes lol.
I never witnessed any violence either,everyone was always friendly to each other and just wanted to dance,not fight and mash each others head in like they seem to want to do now.
Give me a choice..old rave or the new kind of dance party thats not really a rave and I pick the good old fashion illegal one any day :)

> I always went to illegal ones but I never saw any drug taking and i didnt take owt myself

I expiramented a plenty at these raves, pupils like saucers ;) ;) LOL

> I never witnessed any violence either,everyone was always friendly to each other and just wanted to dance,not fight and mash each others head in like they seem to want to do now.
>

Exactly babe, thats the reason I would never even entertain the thought if these nightclubs where you can get stabbed as soon as look at someone wrong or these 'legal' raves where trouble is always starting :rolleyes:
Its mad how at these unpoliced illegal raves you feel so much safer and secure then you do at policed organised dance parties, I never so much as had a bad word with someone at my kind of rave, but the minute you step into a club you feel somone sizing you up almost!!

> Give me a choice..old rave or the new kind of dance party thats not really a rave and I pick the good old fashion illegal one any day

After my own heart :)
I wish I was still going but I lost touch with the circuit and if you dont go to the one before, you dont know where the next one is!!
Brilliant times and if they came round again I would be there even if I was a wrinkly 90 yr old tripping out to hardcore lol :-D