I know we have often discussed the pros and cons of microchiping pups before they leave to go to new homes, but does anyone DNA profile litters, or just the parents?  Am busy organising to have my lot profiled, and it occurred to me that it could be very useful to profile the pups too.  The person I spoke to at the KC to order the profile stuff said there was no reason why the pups could not be done, but did not know if it was ever done (if you see waht I mean).  Any thoughts?

I just tried to answer this and I have no idea where my reply went, so here goes again ;-)

I microchip my litters before they go but with the thought of the chip being painfully removed I have started to think about doing the DNA tests too. However, I haven't gone any further yet about finding out any more. It is something I would consider with my next litter though.

I will be DNA profiling all my dogs & as they are all tattooed & chipped. Puppies can be DNA profiled as it is done with a mouth swab, but they do need to be weaned I think to prevent cross contamination of the swabs by the mother's milk

We chip and profile all our dogs and I feel it should be compulsary before any litter is registered to stop the false pedigree syndrome we all hear/know about.

All our dogs can have their pedigree's proven by DNA and their personal identity the same so no matter what lengths people go to I can prove which dogs I bred and which my male sired.  Have a friend attempting to do exactly that, even other breeders recognise her progeny and have asked when she 'allowed' X person to use her dog at stud - her reply NEVER!  X has a dog out at present that others thought was from friends lines, she won a court case last year and got her dogs back with a court ordering the remaining male to be neutered as part of the agreement for said dog to remain in the 'pet home', now to prove that Court Order has not been enforced.

i have Micro chipped all my puppies before they leave for a while now. but the last 3 litters i have has (in 3 years)from 3 dam's have all been dna profiled, all my dogs are profiled i feel it is anothe way of identifcation.
Also can confirm most of the pedigree as i now have 4 gens done.

I know that for DNA sampling for Optigen they say pups need to be fully weaned and also separated from Mum and each other for at least two hours, as it is important that they don't contaminate each others DNA when playing or nursing.

> I know that for DNA sampling for Optigen they say pups need to be fully weaned and also separated from Mum and each other for at least two hours, as it is important that they don't contaminate each others DNA when playing or nursing.

That sounds tricky and to be honest I can't see the need.  By having the parents DNA profiled the breeder's integrity is assured surely as the information is there if ever a puppy buyer wished to challenge it and any puppies that are bred themselves will also be DNA profiled so anomolies would soon be revealed if the breeders practices were not up to scratch.

> I know that for DNA sampling for Optigen they say pups need to be fully weaned and also separated from Mum and each other for at least two hours, as it is important that they don't contaminate each others DNA when playing or nursing.

It does sound tricky, but surely the idea of an otigen testing is to check that each individual is free from problems, whereas the DNA test is basically proving who the parents are, though each puppy will have its own DNA. Surely they would need the same information. Do please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just starting to look at the DNA profiling.

I agree with Schip, i think that all dogs should be DNA profiled to stop people registering puppies from the wrong paperwork, it's one of the only ways to keep track of whats going on.

Peanuts

All mine are done!

> It does sound tricky, but surely the idea of an otigen testing is to check that each individual is free from problems, whereas the DNA test is basically proving who the parents are, though each puppy will have its own DNA. Surely they would need the same information. Do please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just starting to look at the DNA profiling.

Yes but testing in that way can be done later on, certainly before considering a dog for breeding but trying to get an uncontaminated sample whilst still in the breeders home and effectively isolating the puppy from other genetic material sounds rather tricking that is all.  I think if both parents have been identified there is enough security there to discourage any jiggery pockery from disreputable breeders as they can be caught up on more easily at a later date.

>Yes but testing in that way can be done later on,

Ah, but will the new owners actually do it? I think that is the problem a lot of breeders are worried about. You spend all your time and effort in bringing a new life into the world and let someone else have the care of it for (hopefully) the rest of its life. But how many are eventually registered in the new owners names? How many actually end up getting tested for anything? So why would they spend the money to DNA profile a dog? I know of one dog that went to its new home as an adult with the strict instructions that the dog was to be neutered. It still hasn't been done over a year later. People have the best of intentions, but for whatever reason, they never get round to actually doing what they say they will. I would much rather get it done prior to the pup leaving home, than expect the new owners to do it. For my own peace of mind. :-)

> For my own peace of mind.

If the parents have been DNA tested for genetic conditions you will know that the puppy is a carrier at most because you would not have used affected parents so you will already have that peace of mind.  The puppy buyers will also have inspected the parents results so will be on the same understanding.
The DNA profiling is a seperate issue and I don't see why that is a breeders worry. They will know which dogs produced the puppy and the information is tracable if the puppy buyer ever doubts it.

> I would much rather get it done prior to the pup leaving home, than expect the new owners to do it. For my own peace of mind. :-)

But why would the pet dog whose owner doesn't even transfer the ownership need to be done?

Surely it is only stock that is bred from that need be profiled (unless there is a chance that the pup will be affected by a genetic problem that is being tested for).

People buying pups from people we consider less than reputable are not really going to be concerned as to it's actual; parentage like someone who is going to get involved in the breed and needs to be sure that what they have is as is made out to be.

This is why I love this site, you learn things every time you come on :-)

I thought that DNA profiling was to identify a dog, not necessarily any problems it may have/carry.

Think I might be confusing myself here :-D

Hi Lindy Lou, we are now discussing 2 seperate types of DNA testing here, as someone very sensibly pointed out that for the Optigen tests dogs need to be speerated form each other to maintain the integrity of the test.  The DNA profiling is purely for ID/proof of pedigree (if taken that step further)  The tests by Optigen ( and any other approved source) are for certain hereditary conditons for which the genetic markers have been found.

Thanks to everyone who has replied, lots of food fro thought here.  Got the forms this morning to apply for the test kits, so will work thorugh them and post back over the weekend.  Still undecided about doing the pups, but as they are only 12 days old I odn't suppose I have to rush into anything!

Makes sense now. Can I take my dunces cap off yet?.............please..... ;-)

So from a practical point of view, i.e. the pups or breeders point of view having the pups DNA profiled is of no real use.  Most of the pups will end in pet homes where their profile won't be used for anything, and to be honest proving I am honest doesn't come into it.

I am interested in my pups having permanent ID that can be easily picked up on should they get lost or stolen to prove they are bred by me so I can help them if the need arises.

For me the visible tattoo fits the bill best, followed by a chip which can be read by a Vet or official.  the DNA needs time to be taken and sent off for analysis to compare it.

The DNA test for identification purposes is done with a cheek swab. I think the Optigen testing is done from blood as the two things as somebody else has already mentioned are totally different.

Testing puppies has already been done in cases where parentage is in dispute, for example where the bitch may have been mated accidently by two different dogs.

> Testing puppies has already been done in cases where parentage is in dispute, for example where the bitch may have been mated accidently by two different dogs.

That is usually the breeder doing the testing so they kdnow, it is not of use to the puppy or it's new owner as such.

DNA tesign for health issues can be doen by cheek swabs, and is the route usually used for puppies, but blood is more reliable, but more difficult, more rules round it's storage etc.