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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Good Dog training book
- By kboyle111 [gb] Date 22.10.08 08:27 UTC
I've had Bess - a patterdale terrier - now for a year, she's a wonderful dog in the house great with kids etc, no problems. I've spent the last 12 months just getting to know her, and laying down house rules etc which she is very good at obeying and she knows how to sit on command.  However apart from that she's has the typical terrier traits, selective hearing, stubborness when out walking etc.  So now I want to try and train her myself at home, can anybody recommend any good dog training books for the beginner, mainly to do with walking her.  I am firm and consistent with her but I feel as though she tries to take me for a walk rather than the other way round.  Last night for instance she saw a cat on the other side of the road, if she weren't on a lead she would have ran to chase it regardless of the cars.  I kept pulling her towards me saying firmly Bess no, over and over again, but she ignored me.  When I try the stop start method when she pulls she thinks that she has to sit so she sits until I start walking and then pulls again.  I don't have the time to go to dog training classes but feel that with the help of a good book we could both benefit from this.
- By tooolz Date 22.10.08 08:53 UTC
If I had a pound for every client who says " He does it at home" when pup won't do it in the company of other dogs at classes, I'd have a fair few bob. :-)

A good Training class is the best place to train where many of the distractions of everyday life will occur. The book stuff and training at home is like homework from school, not a replacement for going to school - in your situation IMHO.
- By Isabel Date 22.10.08 08:53 UTC
I'm sure someone with a lot more ability at training that me will be along in a while but meantime I would say that rather than the stop start method the constantly changing of direction method might be worth a try. I have to say terriers are pretty tricky and the cat and anything small and furry problem may never really be resolved but there is hope of getting them to walk better generally :-) 
- By Goldmali Date 22.10.08 09:21 UTC
I kept pulling her towards me saying firmly Bess no, over and over again, but she ignored me.  When I try the stop start method when she pulls she thinks that she has to sit so she sits until I start walking and then pulls again.  I don't have the time to go to dog training classes but feel that with the help of a good book we could both benefit from this.

I agree with the others you need training classes -in fact I'd say it's a must for every dog for at least some time in their life, no matter how experienced the owner.

Do you walk her on the harness that is in your avatar? If so I'd change to a headcollar. I've always found that to be the easiest way of getting a dog to stop pulling -it requires little effort, is very effective, and with my own dogs, they have always been able to stop using the headcollar after some time as they have got used to walking nicely.  I also agree with Isabel about changing directions a lot. Finally don't use her name when you're telling her to NOT do something -her name needs to mean really nice things only or you will ruin the recall. :)
- By LouiseDDB [gb] Date 22.10.08 09:29 UTC
I would say classes too, if you dont have the time how can you have the time to walk her and train her at home??? they are only 1-2 hours long in an evening but it varies from place to place. You could have done with watching dog borstal last night a JRT with similar issues. I can recommend a book, breaking bad habits in dogs google it, cant remember the author but its a good book for beginners plenty of pictures and easy to understands training methods. ''Leave'' would be your best tool at this point but do try to get to classes it does a world of benefit for the dog in terms of social skills.

Louise
- By kboyle111 [gb] Date 22.10.08 10:21 UTC
I walk her with a head collar, my husband uses the harness.  I don't have time to attend classes as my 9 year old son goes to clubs a few evenings a week which fall at the times the lessons are, also I work school hours so in between my morning dog walk, work, coming home from school, evening dog walk juggling other household stuff and taking my son out on the nights his clubs fall on I value my spare nights in at home.   However I am at home from 3.30pm so can spare the time in the garden. I was chatting to another dog owner last night who told me that she had trained her dog at home (who was exceptionally well trained) and gave me a few tips, so I though a good book will help me further.
- By MarkSurrey [gb] Date 22.10.08 11:58 UTC
I'm afraid to say, I would agree with the others. Many training classes are run on Saturday or Sunday mornings, and it is something your son could go along to as well, which would be fun for him and good for the dog.

To my mind, the problem with training from a book is that every dog is different, and if you try to apply a method that doesn't work in your case you could end up doing more harm than good, reinforcing a negative behaviour rather than the one you want. A good teacher will watch your dog and advise you how to adapt your training to what your dog needs.

Also, training from a book I think you are likely to concentrate only on the things you think are important now, whereas a training class will equip you will the skills that they know you will need in the future. I think books are really useful supplements to a training course, but are definitely not a replacement.

If you are determined to go down the book route, I would recommend something like Karen Pryor's Clicker Training for Dogs, and really take the time to understand what you are trying to achieve with the clicker, but I would stress that I would really recommend that you do this in conjunction with a basic course in clicker training, rather than just on your own.
- By Tenaj [gb] Date 22.10.08 13:02 UTC Edited 22.10.08 13:08 UTC
Just bob down to Boarders or Smiths. They tend to have lots of books.

Books like:

Gwen Bailey 'Puppy School'
JacQui O'Brien 'Train Your Dog'

to name just a couple are clear and well illustrated with step by step instructions and clear progression tracking to help you know what to aim towards and assess your achievements. And some books include good troubleshooting tips.

Also there are several trick books - like  Mary Ray 'Dog Tricks'  etc etc... which are more then just 'tricks' and again are basically step by step instructions of the methods you need to train your dog.

Any book shop will stock a decent selection of basic good puppy training books. Just look through them and select the one that is the most user friendly for your own taste.

Ideally I agree with using the books alongside attendance at a training class.  Kids are welcome at most clubs and are even encouraged to help with the responsibility of owning a dog and to participate in the  training.  Most clases are pay as you go so you can attend a few clases and then go once a month. Normally several venues have classes so it should unless you are really somewhere remote  it should be possible to find different days. Not all classes are well advertised but if you can't make the nights for the club sessions that you are aware of they might be able to point you towards classes run by a different club on another night. Because to train a dog you need the right distractions and good behaviour is really is more about socialisation then teaching sit heel and so on.

End of the day it is fun to go to class  and we mums have just as much right to have a night out at a club as our kids do!  And that is a lesson our children need to learn too. Give yourself some 'me time' and take your little friend out for the evening. If you join one now you will just be in time for the Christmas parties!
- By freelancerukuk [hu] Date 22.10.08 13:15 UTC
A terrier won't respond that well to "no's". Remember what they are bred for: to hunt and to kill small furry things on their own initiative. You need to offer her a better prize and distract her from things she wants to do. Terriers respond best to persuasion that doing a certain thing ie what you want, benefits them more than another thing, what they want.

You have a real working terrier type, so training will require patience and persistance on your part, much more than for most other breeds. But, it is possible! Do go to a class because a book, however good, cannot cover every eventuality and the training of every dog requires little tweaks here and there. Dogs, like us, are individuals after all. Once in your class don't be put off because x's Border Collie or y's labrador learns and does everything in five seconds flat. A good class will take on board your type of dog and encourage you accordingly.

Consider training your Patterdale to retrieve a ball. A tennis ball is good because it's a bit furry too. Make the ball a really high status possession that belongs to YOU, not her, and is only taken out for walks and for training. If she doesn't already retrieve then you'll have to start from scratch and teach her. Use the swap method, trading treats for the ball, and the "come" command, using the treat as a lure, to get her to bring the ball back to you and release it. Start with very small distances and build up.  Once she gets the hang of it, chasing the ball should become a self rewarding exercise and, with luck, she'll be begging you to throw it for her. Once she has sufficient interest in the ball you can start to use it, as well as treats, as distraction when she's on the lead. Try tossing the ball gently to her as you walk along- a terrier worth its salt should be a fast and accurate catcher. Toss the ball up and down yourself, so her attention is fixed on it as you walk. Even let her carry the ball for short distances. Most importantly make sure that you always take final possession of the ball and let her see you put it away. She needs to view it as the ultimate thing and intensely desirable- a bit like gollum with his "precious". But always make it a fair trade initially, so she gets something tasty for giving it up to you. This way you avoid potential possession issues on her side.

You can also alternate distraction with a ball with really high value, smelly treats (liver, chicken, cheese). Hold the treat up close to your eye and teach her the "watch me" command. Praise and reward the millisecond her eyes meet yours, however momentary. Timing is vital. Then slowly extend the time she has to watch the treat before she gets it.

It may sound difficult to do all this when walking her on lead, and although it is possible, I would urge you to learn all of the above at a training class. They will also have lots of other tips.

I own a terrier breed and I always incorporate the ball: retrieving, catching, walking to heel, waits etc.. into daily training, this way training is fun and not a chore. Terriers don't do chores, believe you me.

Again, do go to a class. A book will just leave you frustrated and out of your depth very quickly. In dog training timing and subtleties are all, as well as the personality and drive of the dog and its owner! Finally, please don't try to use this note as I cannot hope to cover every tiny detail and step you need to employ to get things right. I just want to indicate the kind of techniques you might learn to use in a class.

Hope this is of some help.
- By Tenaj [gb] Date 22.10.08 13:20 UTC
If you are determined to go down the book route, I would recommend something like Karen Pryor's Clicker Training for Dogs, and really take the time to understand what you are trying to achieve with the clicker, but I would stress that I would really recommend that you do this in conjunction with a basic course in clicker training, rather than just on your own.

oh clickers are my real pet hate!  I am so irritated by the amount of clickers arriving in class and the absolute total lack of understanding in how they work how to use them or the most basic concept of when or what to reawd. click click click! I try patiently to give these people some one to one alongside running the class but they don't listen and in the end I have to tell them to leave their clicker at home. At which point they most probably won't come back. But I've no patience once I've given an unfair amount of time over to helping them for that to worry me much.

I don't know what is so difficult about using a clicker! But so far I've only seen one person arriving at pet class with the remotest ability to use one correctly. It's hard enough for them to hold the lead and watch the dog and think about what they are doing why they are doing it ad how to do it and when to reward the dog without fumbling around with a clicker. Can't stand the things unless people really do know what they are doing and why they are doing it, when how and so on!  They have become a meaningless irritating gimmick.  But well used they are really good.

So a really big yes to:

I would really recommend that you do this in conjunction with a basic course in clicker training,
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Good Dog training book

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