A few days ago we recently got a new female Staffy pup, which we called Booger. I was a little worried about introducing her to my 17month old male Staffy named Wally.
First off we let Booger roam our house without Wally knowing, just so she could get comfortable in her new home, without being terrorised by Wally.
When we introduced them we first let him look at her through our glass door, whislt my partner was outside with Wally and I stayed in with Booger. Then Bren and I swapped and I went out with Wally while we looked at Booger through the glass.
At first he growled which I expected, but eventually he didn't care for her. He just wanted to run around the back yard with his toys, wanting to play.
Next step was to let them sniff each other through the screen door. He still growled a little, but to be honest he wasn't too bad.
Soon enough we let him in the house, but he was on a leash and was muzzled.
He did stand over her and just really try to dominate as he does.
From time to time he growled and her, and he went her once, no biting though.
The whole time we kept Wally muzzled and she was left to roam.
We made Booger sleep in the laundry while Wally still got his spot under our bed, just so he didn't feel disowned.
If anything, since we have had Booger, Wally has had more attention then ever.

Wally is generally fine with Booger. He has that continouse dominating stance all the time, but he still wasn't too bad with her.
I won't let her eat from his bowl, chew any of his bones, no matter how old they are. I wont let her play with his toys, anything thats Wally's she isn't allowed to touch.

One thing that worries me though is that when Booger will be playing with a piece of rubbish, or anything that ISN'T Wally's he will still get mad. Especially when she starts growling and barking and just getting really reved up.
She was attacking my slipper earlier and he just got so so angry and I had to put him out.

Before my partner had the pair of them in the lounge room with him. He was sitting on the floor with Booger on his lap, and Wally had his head leaning on Bren's lap also. Wally was totally fine with this, while they were sleeping.
Then Booger woke up and wanted to play. Wally was being ok with her, letting her jump on his face. If he didn't like her doing it, he would make a slight growl and turn his face away. But then Booger jumped off Bren's lap. Wally and Booger ended up behind Bren's back where Wally went her. He nipped her twice, not enough to draw blood, but it was still extremly frightning, and nasty.
Booger legged it strait under the couch, whole Bren grabbed Wally and held him by the throat against the wall.
Bren muzzled Wally then through him outside.

It's breaking our hearts to see Wally like this, because we brought him up with many different dogs, and he was always out with us where ever we went.

I just don't want to give Booger up, but I fear that he may get nastier.
When he's good, he's good, but when he's bad he's really really bad.

Bren and I have been talking about getting Wally desexed. We got Booger so they could eventually mate, but I don't care if they never do, I just don't want to give her up.

Please help. It's driving me insane.
I know Staffy's are not the nicest breed of dog, but still Wally hasn't been brought up to be nasty.

Thanks, Cassie

> I know Staffy's are not the nicest breed of dog

Eh?

Bit confused by that comment if you're an owner of two?  Do you mean their temperament toward other dogs? 

I know people can and do keep two males together but it's often not workable.

We introduced our 2 staffords very very carefully and slowly.
I held onto pup whilst my first stafford was allowed to sniff the pup.  It was a really really slow introduction.. weeks.
Poor Wally will probably feel that his place is being challenged and whilst you sound like you have done your utmost to socialise him, you must also remember he is a Stafford.
To muzzle him and throw him outside is punishment for natural behaviour.
If it's going to work it's going to take patience.
Have you sought professional advice?  Have you spoken to Boogers breeder for some advice?
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Best of luck.

> He nipped her twice, not enough to draw blood, but it was still extremly frightning, and nasty.

If Wally was being 'nasty' then these 2 nips would have done damage, I'n not saying that it's safe to leave these 2 dogs together but dogs use thier teeth to tell the puppy when enough is enough.

From Wally's point of view a new dog has been brought into his home, been allowed to raom around his territory while his owners shut him in the garden. When Wally tries to tell the puppy that he is the boss he is met with this:

>Bren grabbed Wally and held him by the throat against the wall.

Bren is trying to teach Wally that aggression is wrong by using agression???? Completely confusing for poor Wally, this will break any trust he has with you both and leave him with no alternative but to feel the need to fight for himself. Wally needs to be shown that the pup is a good thing, a valuble member of the family, not the thing that gets him throttled.

I am not an expert atall but I can see things spiraling out of control here and pup ending up getting hurt, when there is no need to. It seems as if the pup has been forced onto wally rather than allowing for a gradual introduction of pup into the family, this takes time, thought, planning, comitmet and a basic understanding of canine behaviour. I think you need to get expert help ASAP or rehome both of the dogs, because pinning a dog to a wall is out of order and if that is how the adult dog is taught to behave the pup has no chance of avoiding injury and no chance of growing up to be a sociable dog :(

To be perfectly honest I would say you've went about the whole introduction the wrong way. By putting your older dog outside and letting the puppy roam around the house, then letting him see her through doors etc would wind any dog up. I know it's too late now but for others reading this the correct way to introduce a new dog/pup is in neutral territory, or at least the garden. Your boy must have thought that this newcomer was taking over his house.

When I bring a new pup home I plonk it down in the middle of the garden and let the other dogs out, and from that moment on they are only separated when I'm not there - and really that's just because the puppy is confined to the kitchen for house training purposes. I've never had an adult dog that would want to harm a pup, yes they've nipped them and told them off but never drawn blood. I've never once interfered in rough play, and all my dogs have survived this :-)

What to do now though with your two....

I suspect your boy was simply teaching the pup manners, if he didn't draw blood then he probably wasn't serious. Pups have razor sharp teeth and can get carried away, they learn manners from older dogs disciplining them. If that sort of situation happens again, pick the pup up and put her in the laundry room for some time out - don't punish your boy...and never hit him or hold him up by the throat.

I haven't read anything in your post to suggest that your boy would actually harm the pup but am hesitant to say that you just leave them to get on with it as I can't actually see them. I strongly suggest you get a behaviourist in now to sort all this out. Having someone there who can read dog body language will help immensely and hopefully nip any problems in the bud.

Just to pick up on another point, keeping an entire dog and bitch together doesn't work for most households so you should certainly consider getting your girl neutered in a few months. Either that or you have to be prepared to kennel one of them for 3 weeks or so twice a year while she's in season and your boy will be upset, off his food and howling.

I just don't want to let myself trust him too much with somthing so small and fragile. He's a complete boof head, and Booger is so little still. He always stands tall, ears pinned back with quick sharp movements. I know this is him dominating, and these movements are the ones making very very worried. When I have hold of her and she's asleep I always call Wally over and tell him he's a good boy and I always let him have a good sniff of her.

Alot of the time I have them both inside and let them both roam freely, but 90% of the time he is muzzled, just so it makes it easier for me to do house hold chores and not have to keep looking behind myself.

I understand it's going to be difficult for Wally to accept her strait away, it's his home and now he's having to share everything.

The things I don't understand though, are when she's crying he's crying as well and just wants to go near her. But then he won't look at her. As well as he doesn't want to come sit near her either. I always try and sit on the floor with the pair of them patting them both and sharing the attention.

I just worry so much. I've seen him when he gets mad and she's so little, that he could cause lots of damage.
I know in time they will get used to each other, but I can't get it out the back of my mind that we may have to give her up.

I'm still considering getting him de sexed. As much as I don't want to I know it will calm him down a bit. I also know that he's still really a baby himself and he hasn't quite matured. I'm just stressing myself over if they will ever get along or not.

> He always stands tall, ears pinned back with quick sharp movements. I know this is him dominating

ears pinned back, quick movement doesn't sound like dominating to me - it sounds like playing. What's his tail doing, are his hackles up (the hair on the back of his neck and back)?

> Alot of the time I have them both inside and let them both roam freely, but 90% of the time he is muzzled, just so it makes it easier for me to do house hold chores and not have to keep looking behind myself

I would ditch the muzzle, keep pup in the laundry room when you can't watch them and when you can just let them play.

> he doesn't want to come sit near her either

why would he? Pups are a pain in the neck :-)

> I'm still considering getting him de sexed

Won't do any harm, but I wouldn't do it at the moment. The last thing you want just now is for him to be tender and have stitches in which the pup might pull!

He just worries me alot because he isn't the nicest at times. We can't walk him down the beach because he just wants to tear apart other dogs. I'm also wondering, does he even know exactly what she is yet. He's getting better, and I'm going to take the advice on. I wouldn't get him de sexed just yet, just a thought if all else fails.

I try to use the muzzle at times as a punishment thing. Occasionally his hair just around his bum, on his tail will stand up.

> I try to use the muzzle at times as a punishment thing

Please don't. Dogs neither understand nor need punishing. The poor boy must be feeling very put out, not only does he have to cope with the new puppy but his owners have completely changed. He must be struggling to understand why you are suddenly shouting at him, grabbing his throat, muzzling him.

I really would recommend putting pup in another room while you're busy but letting Wally wander the house with you. Let pup out of laundry room when you have time to watch them - at this stage the pup will be needing watched all the time anyway for house training. Tell Wally what a good dog he is when he's tolerant of the pup, and try and ignore anything else.

> I'm also wondering, does he even know exactly what she is yet

Of course he does, he's a dog with an excellent sense of smell. He can recognise his own type. I've never met an adult dog who would harm a young pup.

> he isn't the nicest at times. We can't walk him down the beach because he just wants to tear apart other dogs

makes me wonder why you wanted another one, and why you mentioned breeding from him. I would definitely have him neutered, but not at the moment - let things settle down at home first.

He has a great temprement towards us, as well as with children. The other day we took him too a dog beach where there were many dogs and he just went crazy.
Normally we walk him just down our street where you will see the occasional dog. He will have a bark and a snarl but move on.

He just worries me because of his quick sharp movements. I know I'm probably letting it get to me and worrying a little too much.

We also normally muzzle him when we walk him. He's not the kind of dog you can just let roam on a beach or at a park where other dogs are roaming.

When I put her in the laundry she carries on and screams and yelps, and then Wally starts carrying on as well. I know I need to put my foot down with that though. We have only had her a few days, so she's still adapting and so am I.

One thing I ALWAYS ALWAYS do is praise Wally when he's doing the right thing. I don't often yell at him, it's more a stern voice telling him no. He's normally pretty good at listening as well. It's just the way he is sometimes I don't trust him. I also don't want to give him that trust, so I'm always aware.

I think that his nips were not intending on hurting her, I believe it was more a 'Leave me alone' thing. It's just the noises he makes, scare the absolute poo out of me.
I'm starting to stop grabbing his collar everytime he walks near her and letting him go outside and play with her.

Just to add to what Tigger2 has said, all of which I agree with -if you have ever used the muzzle to punish him with, then being muzzled around the pup will mean being near the pup is unpleasant so will definitely make matters worse. For a dog that needs muzzling they need to learn to LOVE the muzzle.  The easiest way to do this is feed him lots of nice treats using the muzzle as a food bowl, and only have pleasant things happening with the muzzle on.

Also wanted to add that if he is aggressive towards other dogs at walks etc, to the point of needing to be muzzled, he definitely is NOT the sort of dog you'd ever want to consider breeding from, so you would be far better off neutering him later on. It won't help with anything else but preventing pups being born, can if you're lucky have a slight effect on aggression towards other male dogs, but it will make life so much easier for you not having to worry about keeping dog and bitch separate when she is in season (that is a NIGHTMARE!), and not having any accidental litters.

> think that his nips were not intending on hurting her, I believe it was more a 'Leave me alone' thing.

thats perfectly natural and indeed needed to teach pup doggy manners.

consider this, he's an adult male staff, if he wanted to hurt the puppy he could have done. (i mean this to reassure, not breed complacancy)

always watch them but don't jump in straight away if there is a scary noise (sort of bark/growl type thing? hard to describe) as often times that can mean "ah! you little *** thats my ear! don't eat ears".

he may be a bit rough if he's not used to pups, and from the sounds of it he's not used to other dogs either so might not know the right thing to do himself. if he's confused already and you are being harsh with him he'll get more upset.

I know Staffy's are not the nicest breed of dog, but still Wally hasn't been brought up to be nasty.

Then why do you own 2 of them????

Staffords are the one of the best breeds in my eyes and I know as I own 2 of them.

First off Pinning a dog against the wall by its throat???????!!!!!!! That is flat out animal cruelty and I would bite you if you did that to me so dont be surprised if your OH gets a nasty bite one day but please stop that abuse straight away as that is downright cruel and abusive.

Sorry but when someone bad mouths Staffords and is being physically abusive and they own 2 of them I get very worried indeed
Your post and way you word it makes me worry for your 2 dogs, saying he wasnt brought up to be nasty?? Goes without saying doesnt it?
Also if he has a muzzle, was he really dog friendly enough to warrant introducing a second puppy?

> I know Staffy's are not the nicest breed of dog, but still Wally hasn't been brought up to be nasty.
>
> Then why do you own 2 of them????
>
> Staffords are the one of the best breeds in my eyes and I know as I own 2 of them.
>

I agree with what almost everyone else has said on here, please don't muzzle your dog as a punishment!

Going on my own experience with my two, I'll say again, it can take one heck of a lot of patience to introduce 2 staffords to each other - sometimes.
My own bitch of 6 years was and is not particularly dog friendly, despite good socialisation at an early age.  One fearful incident put paid to that.
It was something I was very fearful of, but I was desperate for a 2nd Stafford, and I knew that Tess's aggression was based mostly on fear.
It took perseverence and some very very close supervision, BUT, she has accepted Alf and they are good together now and have found their own pace and how to deal with each other.
A meeting with a 'new' dog in a public place is very different to introducing a new dog / pup to your home.
Hope you didn't think I was having a pop at Staffords Rach :-)

> Hope you didn't think I was having a pop at Staffords Rach

lol Of course not babe :)

All of my post was in reference to the original poster hun!

> lol Of course not babe :-)
>
> All of my post was in reference to the poster hun!

I know!!! :-D  Sorry hun, have just re-read and realised you hadn't quoted me at all... duh - it's been a long day!
Just went back and edited my post a bit!! Apologies for that!

lol its late on a monday night, were allowed a mind lapse from time to time lol
All Ive got on my mind is cheesy chips after work when I finish at 9pm lol :)

> I think that his nips were not intending on hurting her, I believe it was more a 'Leave me alone' thing. It's just the noises he makes, scare the absolute poo out of me.
>

To listen to most Stafford's when excited or playing sounds like they are being scalded or skinned alive, it is the noise staffs make.

Have you had any support from your boys breeder or learnt about the breed before you got it as you don't appear to understand his actions or intentions??

Am I missing something here? Why on earth do you go out & get a puppy, when your dog hates other dogs & looks at strange dogs as if he wants to tear them to pieces? You constantly have to take him out in a muzzle too? How did you think he would react?

May I ask why you go a puppy when acording to you, your adult dog does not get on with other dogs, enough that you think he hates them and looks at strange dogs as if he wants to tear them to peices. And you have him on a muzzle outside the house always.............

May I ask how old he was when you got him?
How old he is now?
Why did you choose a Stafford?
Have you any contact with either breeder?
And why dd you choose to get a pup when you seem to have little "control" over your present dog othr than via physical restraint?

We got Booger so they could eventually mate

I think that's the answer to at least two of your questions :(  I hope anyone reading this and is thinking of doing the same has a serious rethink.

> but 90% of the time he is muzzled

I've just reread all of the posts on here... I'm still so puzzled myself why you would get a second Stafford if the first is kept as you have described as above Cassie.
Have you, as I have asked before, spoken to the breeder of the pup?  Has your breeder offered you any advice?
It's not unusual for a stafford to be aggressive, but it does need to be controlled, and quite honestly it doesn't sound as though you trust yourself with him let alone Booger himself.
I don't mean to sound harsh, and I hope I don't come across that way, but as Staffords are the love of my life they are my number one concern, you do sound as though you need some sound solid direction with Booger to start with and I think you'll find that quite difficult with a new pup being around.
I'm am glad that you have said that you don't care if they never mate, and quite frankly I think you're right - that is that last thing you should be thinking about.  A whole other thread I think really.
I do hope that you can get some more advice and get some basic behavioural practices put into place to get your problem sorted.

Booger is the 9 week old bitch and Wally the 17 month old male, an adolescent.

Also you bought this pup in to breed with your male?  would you really want to breed from a dog, who is as aggressive as this?  I own three staffords and bring them up to respective members of my family who respect dogs and humans alike, i would never breed from a dog with a bad temperment, please also make sure if you are adament that you are going to breed them, you get them BOTH  tested for L2 and Hc which are health tests staffords need to be tested for.

sorry just also wanted to say i agree with above poster, breeding them is the last thing you should be worried about.

Angela.

I agree with the rest as temperament can be passed onto offspring, i have no idea why you would go get a second dog when your first wants to rip apart every dog it sees. Sounds like you havent got pup from a reputable place as a breeder would have never sold a pup to you if you allready had a dog aggressive male. It sounds like a lack of social skills on wallys behalf due to band handling so again why go get another (stubborn) breed when you have no idea how to train the first. Money springs to mind as a reason, you wanted to mate them. DO you have any idea how many staffords are already packing the rescue, they have a bad rep atm and noone will look at them twice, why oh why would you want to make this problem worse with possible questionable temperaments due to sire??? GAH

Rant over, but whats done is done you cant erase it. I suggest you start from scratch with your male, socialisation classes with a muzzle on get him used to other dogs. take your pup as well as you dont want to make the same mistake twice. Seek the help of a good trainer behaviourist (and a shrink for your other half if he is pining your dog to the wall with his throat, violence is the way to stop and aggressive dog?????? NOT) Absolutely rediculous, and i think you should be ashamed of yourself for allowing this sort of abuse. Would you allow it of your child if they started fighting with each other? no, so you shouldnt with your dogs. Start with wally again and once he accepts other dogs he wont be such a threat, and he will calm down then get him castrated and your bitch done after her first season. As you are not suitable to be a stafford breeder, leave it to the one interested in the dogs welfare and the breed as a whole.

Louise

Booger legged it strait under the couch, whole Bren grabbed Wally and held him by the throat against the wall.
Bren muzzled Wally then through him outside.

Oh dear - unfortunatley you and your OH are doing things totally wrongly. Sorry to be blunt but there are times when nothing else will do.

There is so much you both need to learn about dogs and how to bring them up, how to help them understand and behave appropriately.
I'm not sure where to start, because you both dont seem to understand body language either, so can't really read your dogs. Your OHs actions
concern me, although I understand he assumes pinning the older dog will help. It won't, it will only associate the pup with horriblethings happening to
the older dog, and owners who seem angry all the time :( :(

Sadly, my advice would be to find your pup a good new home, whilst she's still young.

> Sadly, my advice would be to find your pup a good new home, whilst she's still young

sadly, I would agree.. OR Cassie needs to go back and speak to her breeder... Cassie still hasn't answered this particular question which has been asked a couple of times now..

i agree, rehome pup
i can not believe you got a pup with a dog aggresive male,
and as for breeding
please do not do it
there are enough unwanted dogs in rescues already

You want to breed your dogs???????
Typical BACK YARD BREEDER here then isnt it, breed for the cash and nothing else

Someone else to add to the already bursting stafford population with staffords with bad temperaments why dont people understand the stafford has enough bad press without stupid people breeding them willy nilly and getting second ones when they cant even control the first, makes me sick and angry

Im so so so fed up with my own breed being abused by these people and constantly coming off worse off, being beaten and pinned against walls????? Bred for money???? is there anything worse you can do to a dog? :(

Erm I have a feeling we may find that the OP has got the reaction they were looking for here ;-)

got to agree staffords are such wonderful dogs and pinning any dog to a wall is wrong and i cant believe u got another dog if you knew your first didnt like other dogs, just like to add my stafford gets on well with all dogs and please dont BREED!

> pinning any dog to a wall is wrong

Its animal cruelty is what it is and nothing less

> just like to add my stafford gets on well with all dogs

Same here, I have 2 staffords, one male and one female and they are both super with other dogs so its not the stafford whos 'not nice' as you (The poster) put it, its downright bad ownership on your (The posters) part and you need to accept responsibility and rehome your puppy before she is mauled by a dog which knows no better and she can have a chance at a happy life where she wont be beaten up or pinned against walls
I would report anyone to the rspca if I see them doing that to their dog

Satincollie are you saying we have trolls again?

Dont get me wrong I'm not 100% certain but the post follows the lines of the things most likely to wind everyone up and the OP has now disappeared.

At least anyone else reading this will get the message were trying to get across!

Why would someone just post to wind people up?
Shows some people really have no IQ lol

Either that or they are (going on the username) just 17/18 and very naive,seems a bit young to have your own home and dog though.

The whole first post makes my blood boil and want to smack my head against the wall...this is my beloved breed.........and sometimes I wish I culd scoop them all up and handpick the people allowed to have them.............Please will those those numpties out there leave my breed alone. Thank you.

> The whole first post makes my blood boil and want to smack my head against the wall...this is my beloved breed.........and sometimes I wish I culd scoop them all up and handpick the people allowed to have them.............Please will those those numpties out there leave my breed alone. Thank you.

Absolutly 100% agree with you :)
Stafford owners do need to be hand picked as some people dont have a clue

He just worries me alot because he isn't the nicest at times. We can't walk him down the beach because he just wants to tear apart other dogs.

just want to add i cant believe the above sentance! sounds like he may need to be pts before he damages someone. as for pinning the poor dog against the wall, i would get rid of OH first, then sort out the dogs!

I do wonder if this young dog little more than a puppy is being totally misunderstood and his reaction to other dogs is frustration and over excitement which from a staff can sound horrendous.

It seems this owner has assumed from the offset that her dog will 'not be nice' and therefore has assumed negative reactions which have become a self fulfilling prophesy.

There has been alot of really negative stuff said to the op, who may, after all, have been genuinely asking for some help. No wonder she has gone offline.
I think this sounds like a very inexperienced dog owner in great need of help, so wouldn't it be better to be kind and offer help as some have done rather than getting on to a high horse and telling her off as some others have done, as now she may never get advice.

> I think this sounds like a very inexperienced dog owner in great need of help, so wouldn't it be better to be kind and offer help as some have done rather than getting on to a high horse and telling her off as some others have done, as now she may never get advice.

Well said. If we don't agree with the way other people treat their dogs we have two options. Option 1 - education, explain why their way might not work and suggest an alternative or Option 2 - go off on the deep end, accuse them of being BYBs, cruelty to animals, just plain stupid, tell them to rehome or pts their dogs.

Option 1 is more likely to be listened to, and is therefore the better option for the dogs, and any future dogs these people may get.

>> Well said. If we don't agree with the way other people treat their dogs we have two options. Option 1 - education, explain why their way might not work and suggest an alternative or Option 2 - go off on the deep end, accuse them of being BYBs, cruelty to animals, just plain stupid, tell them to rehome or pts their dogs.
>
> Option 1 is more likely to be listened to, and is therefore the better option for the dogs, and any future dogs these people may get.

I completely agree Tigger2, all that has happened is that the poster concerned has gone taking with her a possible tragedy that could have  been avoided with the help and guidance of this forum. Yes OK the poster has made a mistake but berating her will not help the dogs and I thought this forum was all about the health and wellfare of dogs.

i agree with some of the posts on this topic, especially the latest ones,i beileve the op motives for coming on here were not to wind people up but a genuine cry for help,it would seem that she could be a teenager, her o.h may not be and is taking control of what he beileves  is best for his dogs, she may not have any say, no one to turn to and it could be the o.h does not even know that she is asking for help and good advice on this forum, as obviously she is not getting any help or advice  from the so called breeders, i beileve she wants to do the best she can by her dogs re socialising them etc, in my opinion she is scared not only of her dog but the  fact of not being able to cope, albeit she is going about things the wrong way and its probably due to the bad advice she has been given in the past and she knows thats not working so has come here for the help and advice from  experianced dog owners, but instead i.m.o  found her self in a witch hunt for b.y.b.

I don't agree, i feel that the orginal post was from someone just trying to wind everyone up, it certainly worked.

Goes without saying that if you post the things that were said people are going to get upset.  Also if the post was genuine why has the poster not replied.  They were quite happy to write what they did so they should be ok with putting people straight if they have got it wrong.

mspoppy

Please could you enlighten me as to how you can tell a wind up from a genuine post with only print on a screen to go by.

How do I know that you're not just on a wind up?

When shes quoting that staffords arent that nice and she now ownws two it relaly makes me wonder if she should own dogs at all.
I believe in constructive critisism but also believe someone should be pulled up when they have done something obviously wrong as well espcially when it involves a animals welbeing which seems to be at risk from both dog and owner.

Staffords are a breed which have a strong following of people absolutly dedicated to the breed (Not including hoodies and the 'hard' men obviously) so she should have known when she came on with the problems she did it explaining the way she treats her dog etc it would cause uproar.

If she really wanted help she would have been strong and come back accepting her wrong doing and seeking help but she hasnt so she couldnt have been seeking help that frantically.

I believe in constructive critisism but also believe someone should be pulled up when they have done something obviously wrong as well espcially when it involves a animals welbeing which seems to be at risk from both dog and owner.

To be fair though it isn't in the animals best interests to write posts in such a way that is likely to offend because all that is likely to do is put the persons back up and then they aren't likely to take the advice they so clearly need.  Then the only ones that lose out are the dogs and if you love your breed that much there are more constructive ways to get your point across that would help the dogs.

I hope the op gets a reward based behaviourist involved to help them assess the dogs concerned.  I also wander if Brainless is right in saying that this could be pent up frustration rather than a nasty dog.  If the pup was jumping all over the older dogs face while they were both sat with their owner then I think the older dog was very restrained.  My girl who is pretty good with dogs in the main certainly wouldn't tolerate that very well.

As others have said please do not use any physical punishment on your dog, not only will he likely associate the horrible and frightening experience of being pinned with the puppy he will also loose faith in you.  It is very sad that he felt the need to do that to him.  Maybe you could find some reward based training classes so that you could take both dogs seperately and hopefully learn a bit more about behaviour and how to get what you want from your dogs.

> To be fair though it isn't in the animals best interests to write posts in such a way that is likely to offend because all that is likely to do is put the persons back up and then they aren't likely to take the advice they so clearly need.  Then the only ones that lose out are the dogs and if you love your breed that much there are more constructive ways to get your point across that would help the dogs.
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Generally I would agree :)
But when someone is being that physicaly abusive with their dog (I mean pinning a dog by its throat to a wall???) then they need to be told it aint right and if they dont like it then tough its the truth.
No one should ever raise their hand to their dog, let alone pin it to walls whcih must have been absolutly terrifying for the poor thing

I know she may take offence and thats unfortunate but Im not gonna let anyone think its ok to pin their dog against a wall, no way.

> if you love your breed that much there are more constructive ways to get your point across that would help the dogs.
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I adore my breed probably more then most as Im also up for trying to rehabilitate fighting dogs which some arent but thats another matter :)
Point is there are constructive ways but with something this serious theres no time for beating round the bush is there? or else she would continue letting her OH abuse their dogs not thinking it was so drastically wrong.
People need to be told when their doing this wrong, all this softening the blow doesnt get a very valid point across :)

People need to be told when their doing this wrong, all this softening the blow doesnt get a very valid point across 

I agree people need to be told but clearly the way things have been done hasn't worked other wise she would have posted again.  I think there is a time and place to put your point across angrily and telling someone they are not better or the same as a back yard breeder really isn't going to help the situation.  I really think education is better than accusation.  I meet clients that I could gladly hurl a ton of abuse at when I hear of the way they treat their dogs but that would get me or them orthe dogs no where, so I try and educate them and show them better ways to deal with the problem an usually it works :-).

There are some people that you can't help and won't take your advice but they aren't the kind of people that are going to listen to angry responses either.  This may be a wind up in which case it is sad but if it is genuine then it seems we may have lost the chance to help these dogs just because we need to get our feelings on the matter across.

Rach85
I fully understand and expect you to have strong feelings for your favoured breed, I also except what you say in that they have a very strong following and unfortunately for the breed that following is not always in the best interest of the breed. I personally have yet to meet an unpleasant Stafford and always find them to be extremely lively, affectionate and although strong minded, in the right hands they are easily handled.

There is however such a thing as 'destructive criticism'.
The OP is obviosly not a person that has had your years of experience of the breed, therefore for the sake of the two dogs that she has it would have been the decent thing to do to pass on some of your experience.
If you love all Staffords and would wish to 'scoop them all up' then please put aside your personal feelings on how the OP or anybody for that matter is treating the dogs and offer to help.

As for her not 'coming back and excepting her wrong doing', do you not think that by the sheer fact that she has come on to this forum to seek advice means that she realises that she 'got it wrong

It is possible that due to the reaction the OP received that she has gone away thinking and feeling that there is no hope and may possibly 'ditch the dogs' in whatever form that may take.

Put the brain into gear before pressing the accelerator on the mouth.