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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Will the worm turn?
- By Dogz Date 18.10.08 14:25 UTC
My bitch almost 8 months is now terrorising my boy almost 3 years.
He yelps and runs away..........a proper little woosie.
I cant help feeling she is taking over as top dog now, but when the chips are down he more than able to fend for himself, so why ndoes he allow this still.
The hardest thing is to see it happen and not interfere. There is no blood or major fighting at all.

Karen
- By Nikita [gb] Date 18.10.08 14:30 UTC
If she is bullying him and he is just running away, I would interfere - give her a time out, every time.  Believe me, bullying can very easily become a habit - Soli bullies River something chronic, and finds it immensely rewarding.  Which, of course, means that it's proving an incredibly difficult thing to break her of - much the same as ragging her lead at the start of the walk.  She finds it such fun.

River will tell her off (which makes it more fun, so she does it more, so on and so forth).  But Opi will not; before River came home, Soli used to do the same to her and it made her very distressed, to the point that she hated going in the garden (as that's where it usually happened).  She's just now happy about it, and Soli's been here nearly two years (River just over 1 year).

Putting him in his place is one thing, but bullying?  Not acceptable IMO.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 18.10.08 14:48 UTC
It is normal for the bitch to be the boss in a male x female household.

Once she is sure of her superior position she will see no need to make her point so much.
- By Dogz Date 18.10.08 15:16 UTC
That is sort of what I was hoping, Barbara, it isn't constant but I feel sorry for him and keep telling my daughter to back off and not worry as they will settle eventually. She and OH get bothered more than me, but I would hate to be wrong. I guess she is at her very testing adolescent stage! (not daughter although that is close too).

Karen :)
- By Brainless [gb] Date 18.10.08 15:55 UTC
I would distract her from her 'lording it' if you can, no need to show disapproval at this stage, so that she knows she can have her top spot but bullying isn't on.
- By Lindsay Date 19.10.08 16:29 UTC
It's such a balance act isn't it?

My view is that a dog being top bitch etc is fine, but a genuine top dog (or bitch!) would not need to keep on at other dogs - their presence, charisma, whatever prevents any real shenanigans. Bullying definitely isn't acceptable and ultimately in my view, both dogs should look to you - the one for safety if really necessary, and the other for guidance as to what is and isn't acceptable.

At the end of the day they live in your home and even the bitch needs boundaries and rules.

What is she doing exactly when she bullies the other dog? :)
- By Dogz Date 20.10.08 09:42 UTC
Well she isn't bullying him, not really my words. She wants to call the shots when it comes to playtime.
She will chase him nipping at him he squeals and yelps but justs runs to hide .
This is not constant and I do not really have any worries about her being 'a bully'.
However I would like him to stand up to her more......he is wiser perhaps knowing she is still testing boundaries.

Karen :)
- By Carrington Date 20.10.08 10:28 UTC
Can I just ask what breed the bitch is, is she a much larger breed?

I absolutely agree that she will be on her way to becoming top dog being the bitch, but I've never seen a male run away yelping, backing down to an Alpha is more of a respect issue, to start with a dog may stand up to a bitch especially if the dog is older and they may well do a little teeth snarling etc, occassionally if a dog will not back down a bitch will use force to get her point across, but your dog is running away and yelping, I think it is perfectly clear he has already submitted? Your bitch should have no issue with him.  And he should not be afraid of her. Perhaps she is being a little overly egotistical, which I agree will need you to take over as the authority figure.

Bitches are naturally rouger in play, some more so than others, it is part of their make up to becoming top bitch, this behaviour should stop completely by 12 months, your dog is showing no signs of challenge.

Just out of curiosity really due to his yelping and running away is she a larger more aggressive breed?
- By Gunner [gb] Date 20.10.08 11:02 UTC
Hi Karen
This sounds very similar to my own experience with my two!  I have a nearly five year old entire male and a two year old bitch who from day one has been very 'in your face'.  She is a play fanatic and discovered early on how to goad my boy in to play and if he ignored her would try and nip his rear.  He is naturally a wuz and also a bit lazy where things like this are concerned. Consequently, he would stand with his back end to me to protect his balls whilst she leapt and and pranced around him barking.  I interfered only if he showed signs of anxiety - tail between legs - and used to use my 'stop' whistle so they both put bums on floor.  This coupled with a stern 'enough' was my 'timeout';  the walk was then allowed to continue so long as she behaved, if not, she went on the leash. 

What I found with my two is that the male is still top dog with things that REALLY matter to him - who has pole position in front of the fire, who has pole position in the car, who has first pick of the bones and who controls the hunt etc.  Other things in life he really can't be arsed with so lets her ride roughshod.  Now that she is two, things have calmed down a lot and are a lot more even.  They still go through the same play pattern as before, but now he often initiates things. In some ways it has actually helped my training with him as it has made him a lot more play focussed which I am now able to use as a reward. 

I also used a friends older bitch from time to time whenever I thought 'madam' needed taking down a peg or two as my boy, like yours, wouldn't stand up to her or tell her off.  
- By Dogz Date 20.10.08 14:37 UTC
Same breed (aussie terriers).
She is considerably smaller, quieter and apparently well behaved in comparison! (I am not fooled).
I laughingly chose to have a bitch as second dog 'to teach him manners' little did I know what a sweet dog I already had....

Karen :)
- By Lindsay Date 21.10.08 07:19 UTC
If it's play then I agree bitches can be very strong players sometimes :)

One rule I have with dogs playing is that it must be fairly equal - for example if one dog is chasing, a few moments later the other dog needs to turn round and chase back IYSWIM. If the play is too much in one dog's ball park then it can be more difficult. I hope you get things sorted out between them :)
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Will the worm turn?

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