in an open show where there are no breed classes if you enter puppy AVNSC and are placed first where do you go from there?

not a class I enter been asked the question...

now who can tell me??

Roni :)

Have never entered AVNSC - but I think they would do the same as normal - ie class winners back in for best AVNSC, and if they are best puppy AVNSC they would go into the puppy group - but I may be wrong.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/511/opengroupsyssched.pdf

As far as I can see at top of page 4 if unbeaten by any other puppy go on to group etc. Doesn't exclude AV or AVNSC looking at that.

Exactly so the AVNSC is same as breed classes.

Yes in AVNSC the BOB goes forward to the group like any other breed, same with BP.

NOT the A.V. classes, they cannot compete for Groups only A.V.N.S.C. At non Group shows, A.V. CAN compete for B.P. in Show etc. if unbeaten by another puppy.Ditto BOB 's

so how far can you go with av pastoral??

whats the point of the class?

I've often wondered what the point of AV is! You can't go any further because breeds that HAVE breed classes can be in it.

Av  puppy can go in the puppy group so long as it is an unbeaten puppy.
It is the only case where two puppies of the same breed can end up in the puppy group.

But only if the AV Puppy class is judged before the group. It can vary, so you need to refer to the schedule for the particular show. In fact, in my experience, the AV classes are most often judged after the group. As I said though, it can vary.

Dawn R.

Just to clarify although most of it you will know if not all.
AVNSC is for breeds with no breed classes and for a group show a best AVNSC and a best AVNSC puppy will be declared.
Puppies do not have to enter breed classes unless there is a puppy class for the breed and so if a show schedules say a post graduate class and an Open class puppies can go in these and compete and be declared best puppy in breed however a puppy from this breed can also go in AV Puppy and still be an unbeaten puppy if they win the class and so are still eligible for the puppy group.
Adult dogs have to enter the breed classes so it doesn't apply to them.
Edited to add yes of course the av puppy class has to be scheduled before the group.

Av classes quite often give you the chance to show under the group judge when your breed judge may have been different and are useful for extra training and practice and to get a second judges opinion.

Think the point of AV classes and Stakes classes it to give exhibitors the opportunity of entering their dog under different judges and to have a full days entertainment. At least that is why I make sure all my exhibitors have to opportunity to enter their hounds under at least 3 judges, a breed judge, and two all round hound breed specialists.

Not sure that all if many only go to a show to progress into the BIS ring, nice if you do but most enter for the pleasure of a day out at a dog show don't they? Or am I naive and the only reason for entering is to win.

In answer to the AV and AVNSC question any puppy that has competed and remains unbeaten can go forward to group and/or BIS - this does not apply to adults when only the dog declared best AVNSC can go forward into group and/or BIS.