A bit of basic info.
We currently have a Lab(entire 5yrs) and Bernese(entire 18mnths) living in the house. They get on fine.
My sister has 2 Jacks 1 male(entire 7yrs) and 1 bitch(neutered 5yrs). They used to live with us until she moved out recently.
These Jacks often get thrown into our house when my sister is out, which is a common occurance.

Male Jack was stolen when he was 2yrs old and was missing for 1yr. In that time Female jack came into house.
Male Jack found by Police and returned to us. Male Jack then gets stolen by same lady for second time, missing 6 months. In that time Lab comes into house.

Male Jack is very highly strung. If he is in the house and Lab walks in he will walk up to Lab and growl and sometimes snarl. This has lead to some nasty attacks on the Jack by the Lab who is always gentle natured until pushed too far by the Jack.
Today this all errupted again while i was out of the room. Managed to split them up but the other 2 dogs were trying to get involved as well.
Jack is fine bar a couple of puncture wounds.

Jack also growls at me if i walk up the stairs and he is sitting at the top of them. Often snarling at me. Occasionaly does this to my father as well.

I have paid for and had in 3 different behaviourists. I have followed each ones advice and got no where. my father and sister say there is nothing wrong with the Jack and thats him talking(what the ???)
Jack had bitten me twice when i have been in training with him.

Any ideas of what i can do to alleviate these issues and the fact that neither my sister or father reckon there is a problem...Its frustrating as i dont want the Jack to get hurt anymore, nor do i and i just wish he would calm down, this may assist him in not being so highly strung(or not as the case maybe).

I have recently started squirting water at the Jack when he growls at me which stops him then, but he'll do it the next day etc.

Apologies for the bad spelling and grammer, am very tired.

Also the house is very calm when the male Jack isn't around, all others get on fine together. Its bliss.

My dad also has a habit of in the mornings of winding the Jack up and getting him in a highly strung manner first thing. This i don't think bodes well, but father knows best and thinks things are fine as they are and i shouldn't be messing about with the dogs.
The Jack is not balanced and needs us as the humans to be trained and work something out.

The Jack is fine with strangers and strange dogs, so that isn't a worry.

Sorry to read of the problems in your home relating to the Jack russell.

Can I ask, what sort of advice did the behaviourists give, where did you find them, and how long did you follow the advice for in each instance?

Do you know what the trigger is, for the male Jack to disagree with the lab?

What training methods do you tend to use? I'd not advise punishing  a dog for growling as you really need to find out why he is doing it in the first place, if you see what I mean. That way you can get to the root of the problem :)

It may be that if the male Jack doesn't get on with the other dogs then perhaps rehoming could be a good idea?

It's interesting he was stolen twice by the same person - she had some gall! Did she give any reasons for it? Just curious as to her motives!! :)

Poor dog has had a very unsettled life hasn't he?

JR's are spunky little dogs at the best of times, my grandfather has 3, they back down at nothing other than a controlled owner giving controlled commands. The dog needs this, you seem to be doing the training with this dog, can I ask why your sister isn't? Does this dog have one person training him or is it a bit of a free for all, does your father and sister let him get away with things and you are trying your best to give him some authority?

JR's are fun dogs but they are clever and bossy if you let them get away with it, it is no wonder that he thinks he can take on your Lab. I agree with Lindsay and would not use any negative training methods, you need reward based training, but more importantly one authority figure, before you start any other training sessions you need to talk to your father and sister about who is in charge of this dog and will spend time with him and give him a master to take commands from.  It is fine for other family members to take the lead once he is put in his place.

No dog should ever bite it's owner, even looking at it on the least important level it is a lack of respect, whether it is fear based I guess only someone watching the dog can tell.

For now, you simply can not leave the JR unsupervised with your Lab, you have two ego's bashing heads here, it will end in disaster. Get a dog gate or a crate to seperate them. Living with 2 larger entire dogs, personally (others may not agree) I would have the JR neutered and then begin a full training programme with him as his master.

You seem to be paying for his behaviourists so I think you need to take charge. Lindsay will no doubt be able to point you in the right direction for a good behaviourist, but firstly sort out your father and sister otherwise the dog will have to be re-homed as it will get worse not better without a solid authority figure.

I agree that i need my father and sister on side, but they don't think there is a problem and that they will all sort themselves out.
I have said it would be helpful to get him neutered and also the Lab but they are not my dogs. They disagree and think he should remain as the world intended(so to speak). As for re-homing they wouldn't even entertain that idea either.
They don't put any boundaries in place and that is what i was trying to do with the Jack when i got bitten by him.
He is very possessive over balls and won't even hand them back to us unless its on his terms.

With the behaviourists i worked with one for a year, another one for 6 months and the last i wasn't impressed by the techniques(most expensive one) and she thought her way was the only way and there is no adapting different techniques to different dogs. One way and thats it.
I do continue with training and often train them all together as in sit, down and stay and they get rewarded for this.

He is also a wanderer and does as he pleases which my father thinks is right for any canine, my dog is kept in an enclosed garden which i got put up, so he doesn't go anywhere unless its with me. The Jack can get out of this garden and hence why he was stolen by the same lady. She found him and kept him. All other persons call us to collect him. He is an accident waiting to happen. He is not insured and if he caused any road accident then my sister would be liable.
He does get on with the Lab at other times, its mainly within the house. There are gates up and this can assist in splitting them up, so the Jack goes upstairs and Lab remains downstairs.

I would never get a Jack, too much like hard work, but he is in the house and i need help. The fact that my father and sister won't assist or think anything is wrong doesn't help in the slightest and actually goes against my morals.

Male Jack then gets stolen by same lady for second time, missing 6 months.


Also wondering of the motives for stealing this dog twice, was he by chance being used as a stud? 

Further to this about the lady who stole him, she also had many other dogs which had gone missing. She is on the list for the Police and dog wardens if any dogs go missing in the area now. Have no idea what she was thinking of, guess she thought that even thought these dogs had collars and tags on, even ours is chipped that she would keep him and others she found.
I'd really like to find this woman and see what she thought she was doing. There were no charges brought against her, like theft of how many dogs??? Maybe she had MHA issues.

The Jack has been used at stud a couple of times, to the female Jack(who is now done) and also a friend of the family. Again i am against studding out if a dog has problems or hasn't been health checked. IMO

I feel very sorry for you, you want to do the right things but have no help.

This is your sister's dog and you are the only one who wishes to train him and offer him security.  The family home seems to be where there is a road and neighbours, your dad's 'a dog should roam free attitude' would be fine if he lived on a farm with open land for miles and the JR could go out and roam his territory.

I really don't know what to say or what help to give when your all alone here, any help given will just be undermined and when your sister takes her dogs home all your good work will be undone.

I guess all that you can do is be watchful for any future fights and do the little training that you can, unfortunately it is out of your hands if the others are against all helpful advice given. Feel so sorry for you.  (((hug)))

We do live on a farm with loads of open land but its an area which is very popular so have a very busy road at the top of our drive.

I have just taken my dog out for a walk and on the way i saw the Jack out and about. I couldn't stop due to being too dangerous on a bend. I went looking for him but he'd moved on.
Grrrr!!!!

A friend of my father who is very up to date on dogs and behaviour has offered advice and basically told my father he is doing wrong by the Jack and allowing him to wander as he likes, including off our land is not what a domestic canine should be doing.
I thought he would of listened, he did but did not heed this advice.

We do live on a farm with loads of open land but its an area which is very popular so have a very busy road at the top of our drive.


***Slaps forehead*** :-D

What can I say :-D  When I was a child our Rough Collies had the freedom to roam our land, but the difference is they were very obediant and actually didn't wander far, but different decade, different time.

Everyone seems to be telling your dad to train this dog, even down to his friend. Not taking heed is putting this dog in danger not just from a fatal injury from the lab when they bang heads again, but from being run over, taken again or killed by a larger dog whom he wishes to take on whilst running free, he is entire has been put to stud and is obviously going to be looking out for little girlies too, which many well also get him into trouble. I think you perhaps need to concentrate on your sister this is her dog after all, before you can do anymore good, you need to get her completely on side.

I do feel sorry for your predicament. By what you have said.

Until you make your family realise that the male jack might be killed then there is not much you can do to solve the problems. Either by a car or by your other dog.
Having him upstairs is elevating his position in the home also with him biting you & growling on the stairs he is feeling top man.
To have a harmonious home maybe treat him as the top man- fed him first, talk to him first and let all the others realise he is top- then there might not be challenges from the 5 yr old lab.  The lab by the sounds of it is not really the aggressive one and will react when jack provokes him. If you castrated the jack and left the lab entire might not solve the problem for you.

You should try to build up your relationship with him. I expect due to treating him differently [not intentional] because of the trouble he is causing- you & him are at logger heads  resulting in you being bitten. If he goes for you over toys don't let him have anything like that. Then walk him alone and play with him take the ball / toy along with you. The better relationship you have with him the more he will listen to you and calm down when told. I can realise it will be difficult due to him doing your head in but try and make him the apple of your eye for a while a see if he improves. Terriers will always be difficult for someone when they realise there is resentment in the air.

I hear what your saying, my only concern is that the Lab who is top canine, would treating the Jack and basically putting him that top canine position cause more problems??

I have said about the DDA sooo many times and that if the Jack causes an accident they would be liable. Also said about the Jack being killed or stolen again. I have said to them recall how they felt when he was stolen, would they really want to go through all that again or for it to be a permanent thing??
Behaviourists have spoken to them as well and nothing is getting through to them.
I am prepared to try different things, but they are stuck in their ways and their way is the only way as far as they are concerned.
Basically my family say i don't know what i;m doing and all this stuff with behaviourists is all mumbo jumbo and in my fathers time they never had anything like this and never the need for it.
He won't accept times have changed and we have a problem.
Even when the Jack nearly died from his injuries a few years back(when i was out of the country) when the Lab attacked him.
I almost feel like giving up, i won;t though.
Its difficult as the Bernese is the apple in my eyes, being my dog and all.

Sadly by the sounds of it you are the only one actually caring about this dog...

If you've seen that the lab is top canine then it makes more sense why jacky boy is running about on his own. He has become semi feral in his life. I can sort of understand now why this woman nicked him-  if she sees him on his own all the time and nearly getting killed on the road she is concern with his welfare.

The only option is to muzzle the boys so if they do have a fight they can't do much damage.

The only option is to muzzle the boys so if they do have a fight they can't do much damage.

I think I already know what the father would say about that magica. ;-)

Actually, in-between doing a little work :-) I thought of a new angle you could try suejaw. I think the problem here apart from the dog being allowed to be his own boss and Jack the Lad, is the way your Father and Sister view the dog.

I guess because he is small they are seeing him as harmless.

How about trying a little psycology on them i.e

If this dog were a much larger dog for instance a Rotti or a Dobe would they still allow him to wander free?
Would it still be ok for him to bite you?
Have behavioural problems?
Do as he pleases with no authority?
Would it still be nothing if he got into fights with the other dog?
Would it still be ok for him to wander around un-neutered and un-checked perhaps turning up at neighbours houses of in-season bitches, harrassing other dogs and owners?
Would it still be ok for him to run near roads?

Jack Russells may well be small dogs but most have characters bigger than a larger dog and more than anything need control.

If your dad allows the same routines with your Lab too, then I guess it will make little difference to say any of it, but it might be worth a try. :-)

To be quite honest I would be telling your sister that until the dog is taught to behave in an acceptable manner it can't come into YOUR house. If she can't or won't train it then why should you and your dogs take the brunt of its bad behaviour? Do you have a local dog warden  - maybe a visit from them (or the local police officer) to your father and sister would make them think about their attitude to letting the dog run free. You won't train this dog until everyone is consistent with him because he will never get the message while others let him do as he pleases.

I have to agree with Dakkobear here.  If this dog is consistently clashing heads with your dog - in your home - then it should not be allowed in.  Period.

My brother has an older dog who, although she is fab with people, has horrendous canine skills (much worse now she lives with no other dogs and only meets one through a fence) and as a result last time I saw her (with one of mine in tow, her previous best friend), she was an overbearing, WAY OTT bully and frightened the life out of my poor girl.  So wwhen my brother does eventually decide he'll make good on his promise to come and visit, I will be stating in no uncertain terms that Tia is not welcome - I have spent too long working on Soli's dog-aimed fear problems to have her set as far back as Tia would put her.  She simply wouldn't cope, and it's her house - why should she?

I'm afraid I feel the same about your lab and this JRT - it's your lab's house, not his, so why should he have to undergo the stress?

You've all made valid points and i have tried many angles in speaking to them. They are thick as thieves and nothing i can say is going to be right. I have to find someway of them thinking the idea was theirs.
If the Jack was say a Rotti or similar then i think they may see it from a different angle as i'm sure that we'd have a few more visits and seizures of the dog. But they would say he is not a Rotti or anything like therefore don't compare.

He has been picked up by Dog Wardens who have spoken to them and charged them for the inconvenience.
Also my colleagues who are handlers have said something, this has made no difference.
Muzzles, well that would be a great idea but they wouldn't go with this.

I live with my father as i can't afford to move out of home, which would be a great idea so i wouldn't have to see it, but the problem would still be there. My father thinks its great to have all the dogs together. I could put my foot down but this would not get me anywhere apart from creating logger heads with my family once again.

Since this attack the Jack has made his own choice of staying away with my sister. It is so much calmer without him around and would love it for my sister for just once to take responsibility for her own dogs. She doesn't pay for any of their food or vets bills, yet she works full time, rents and drinks loads.

If the Jack was mine and the same situation was occuring, they would be the first to say there was a problem and that i needed to do something about it.
My dog loves to dig and dig he does, this in my fathers mind is a HUGE problem. Well no, not in the big scheme of things its not.

Further to this my dad allows the Lab to do as he likes also. Though the Lab stays around the house or follows my father around, only has wandered when someone has walked an in season bitch near us, which has been only a few times and he never got hold of her thank god.
There are so many consequences of bringing up dogs in this way and its not the right way.
I almost feel and wish the Jack would cause an accident and that the person sued her, so she would learn a lesson.
Though not wishing anything bad would happen to the dog.

Just been advised of another behaviouist who is good in the area and sent him an email to see if this is something he could help me with.
My extra worry is this may have some form of effect on my Bernese as i would never want him to behave in this way or retaliate to it.

I'll just have to wait now and see is this guy can help.

suejaw,

I never thought I would say this, but please do not waste anymore money on behaviourists, you've had 3, one for a year and two others, your fathers friend is involved in dog behaviour the previous behaviourists have also tried to advise them (dad and sister) on giving boundaries, the dog is what? Approx 8 years old now? This isn't your dog, your not in control of him, he lives with your sister for most of the time, no-one else cares to give him any authority, your wasting your money and your time without help from the other residents of the house and help from your sister, I'm very sure that by now you know exactly what techniques need to be used to train this little dog, with all the will in the world you can't do it if he is allowed to do as he pleases with the other household members, your wasting your money on bringing in another behaviourist, honestly, some battles are lost. The dog doesn't need the behaviourist your family members do. (sorry)

Use what you know, (you must have learnt a lot by now) keep him away from the other dog and save your money for your own dog.

Your doing a great job with your own dog, the JR by all means you can look out for and protect the other dogs from him, but please don't spend another penny, it will be wasted.

Sorry, just my opinion. xx