Hi, i have just joined this fourm, i live in Spain, i have two rescue dogs, one being a gsd x husky, when we got her from the rescue she had two sores on two of her pads, they said at the rescue centre it would heal up in a couple of weeks, a year later, we are still treating her for this, we are told its Bumble foot, has anyone on this site ever had a dog with this, if so any tips on a cure, if any, im at my wits end with this, its cost me a fourtune in vet fees, plus i have to wash dress the wound twice a day, put a boot on her foot before she can put her foot to the ground, please help Tina

Hi Tina!

Welcome to Champdogs :)
Just wanted to clarify... (I know you've said you've spent a fortune in vets fees..I can imagine and miserable for you both)
Were skin scrapes,bloods taken and or a Biopsy done?
(to clarify on pododermatitis)
What are you washing with?

Liv.

Hi, yes we have had all biopsys for everything, even blood tests to make sure she isnt lacking anything, we have had a number of treatments, but right now she has her foot bathed in an iodine water mix, then an ointment called Menaderm Simple, she is on corrtisone tablets, at first she was on 50 ml g per day, now the vet has uped it to 100 ml g per day, i hve asked the vet if it maybe poss to remove the two pads, he isnt keen, to be honest i have now taken her to 3 diffrent vets, none of which seem to understand this complaint, Kiki is such a lovley dog, she is missing out of normal dogie life, her walks are short, if only i could get on top of this.

Don't know which part of Spain you live in but believe Southern Spain has been extremely hot again this year.  Could it be that they are burning when she's out so that isn't allowing them to heal?  I wouldn't cut the pads off as I would think that would cause more problems and take longer to heal.

Well yes it has been really hot here this year as every year, but we picked up Kiki from the pound in September 2007, we had all winter to get this thing healed up, plus she dosnt go out side without a boot on, she always has a babys sock on plus a dressing, so her foot is well protected, i phoned the rescue where we got her, and was told that she had come into the rescue  with this problem 6 months before we took her, so we know she has had this for over 1year 6 months, thats a long time.
                                     Im just hoping someone out there can throw me a life line, i have tried so may things, ive even given Manuka honey a try, but sadly it didnt work.

Hi
I have never had a dog with bumblefoot but it is very common in rats.  Caused by a cut or scrape having constant access to unhygenic area and then the foot becomes inflammed.  Usually to treat this the first thing that happens in a course of antibiotics to make sure no infection has taken hold then they have a foot bathed in salted water.  Kept on super clean surface with no extra bedding.  Once the initial swelling has gone down they heal in about a week but rats have a very quick healing rate.

For a dog I would suggest almost the exact same thing.  I would quit with the iodine and bath with salted water then pat until completely dry (must be dry) and the boot should be clean, have a sterile pad in and be kept on nearly all the time, even in the house.  I would expect if you kept up this routine for 2 - 3 weeks you should see an improvement. Same thing for most doggy wounds, keep clean, keep dry, keep the dog away from it.

Hope it helps

Emma

Hi Emma, i have done the salt water bathing, and her foot is always covered, she has been on antibiotics for almost a year, i think in her past life, before living with us, she had been neglected, even when she was in the rescue pound she was paddling about in other dogs pee, so she diddnt really stand a chance, but now for the past year we have kept very clean, it almost heals, you yhink YES but then it goes nasty again, im told this is what happens with bumblefoot.

Have you tried the Holistic approach using colloidal silver ?

No Moonmaiden, tell me what i do with it and where i can get it and we will give it ago

In that case if it is flaring up have you look into diet as I have known many re-occurances.  I know that with bumblefoot it can be a vitamin A (good sources are egg, oily fish and yogurt) defiency or a Zinc defiency or even sometimes an overly high fat content diet seems to make it worse.  Have a look at this link - http://www.provet.co.uk/health/diseases/pododermatitis.htm
I also noticed someone mention colloidal silver, which is also worth a try.

How old is she now?  Is it a case of her age not helping it heal?

Do you know which type she has?  Its fancy name is pododermatitis but their are different sorts.  It maybe that she has the worst type which is an immune disorder meaning it wont heal.  A vet should at least be able to tell you that.

On a more personal opinion, I think your vet has no understanding of the issue, maybe time to look for a new vet or just a different vet in the same practice.  Or even a specialist, they may cost more but in the long run you will probably save money.

Keep trying things and coming back to us all, we are never short of ideas

Emma

Hi Emma, i agree, i have taken her to 3 diffrent vets now, the one we are seeing at the moment is 1hour and 30mins drive from here, i have gone to him as he is a skin specilist, he also did extensive blood tests to see if she is lacking in anything, its come back clear, we had a biopsy done which has confirmed she has pododermatitis cronic active, we could try giving her the zinc suplement, she is about 6 years old, she is now on diet food as she is over weight, i have read some stories on the net about this condition and im worried, some never heal, and it looks like Kikis wont either

I can see why their were so many antibiotics now as they are obviously trying to stop it becoming osteomyelitis with it still being active (where an infection can get to the bones, rare so dont panic)
I would have a quick look down the ingredients to see if all the vitamins are still included or ask your new vet to double check.  Getting the weight down always helps.
I am a human nurse by day so I will ask at work what we would do if someone had the human eqiuvalent to see if I can get anymore suggestions they always like tricky cases and most are animal lovers too.  Try not to get to disheartened as the net always shows the horror stories and not as many success stories.

Let us know of anymore developments

Emma

When I read your post it reminded me of one i made for a friend recently..

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/108846.html

This turned out to be a rare GSD condition called Metatarsal fistulation of the GSD,link here..

http://www.mckeevervetderm.com/documents/diseases/Metatarsal%20Fistulation%20of%20the%20German%20Shepherd%20Dog.pdf

He had been tested for everything before they found this and apparently it mostly affects GSD's and  their crosses.There's more info here ,it's about 1/2 way down the pdf with photos..

http://www.dlab.colostate.edu/webdocs/general/2007SpringSummer.pdf

I hope you can get a solution,I just wanted to mention this as I know it's very rare and alot of vets have not come accross it before.

> I think your vet has no understanding of the issue

I would find it very hard to believe that some one with the training, biopsy,bloods, skin scrape and histological results could be less informed than people on the internet that have seen neither those nor the dog itself!! (tsk!)

Tina if you are going to take advice re: Zinc I'd urge you to read this article first!:Siberian Husky Health Foundation - Zinc Deficiency  You will see that this must be done in consultation with your vet :)
Rehards the above link, Has she presented 'Mange' like symptoms elsewhere?
Has a Demodex cause been ruled out? (Im sure given Vet history it must have been, but it is often the common cause in persistent resistant pododermatitis... and that would be a vicious circle as the steroids of Mendarem & cortisone act as an immune suppressant)

This must be such a frustration and upset for you both, hopefully someone will come along soon with experience of this.
Best of luck.

Thank you everyone who has taken the time to give me your valued advice, i am taking it all on board, apart from the two affected pads Kiki is in really good health, her coat is as long as a rough collies, its in beautiful condition, her eyes are bright, always clear, i will see if i can work out how to post a photo of her, and the sore feet, the blood testing was surposed to cover everything, but i will ask the vet, it would be such a lovley thing for Kiki to get this sorted, fingers crossed someone out there will have the answer. nite nite all Tina

You can get it from good health stores or from the Internet, it's a natural antibiotic. you need to soak your dogs paw in it three times a day, dry & then cover as you are doing now

hi
im new to this forum, and have a bitch who has gone off food and drink, had 6 pups a week ago, have tried everything, she is drained, any top-tips? Vet ruled out various probs, thinks she has anorexia , her muscle mass has diminished, feeds pups frequently.
many thanks (this worries me CONSTANTLY!)
deb

I would find it very hard to believe that some one with the training, biopsy,bloods, skin scrape and histological results could be less informed than people on the internet that have seen neither those nor the dog itself!! (tsk!)

Sorry but I think you took that the wrong way, when I said vet had no understanding I ment they are a general vet.  Not bothered about this dogs treatment as it is something that they dont specialise in or have an active interest in.  As I am a nurse in real life and have been for many years I like many other peoples opinions are very valid on things like this.  Just because we are not vets doesnt mean we are not right.

Emma

You could try B Sorb. It's an appetite stimuler as well as containing essential food ingredients

Hi Emma,  i cant tell you how frustrated i feel, the people on this fourm have more info on this complaint than the vets have given me, in fact i have had to tell two of them what it is, and had to advise them to look it up on the internet, the dog rescue where we got Kiki from hadnt heard of it, i have phoned them to let them know about Kikis on going problem, they said they would send a copy of the bloods and biopsys that i sent them, to thier vet, that was weeks ago, i havent heard anything from them scince, and dont expect i will. tina

Hi Tina, I feel I am often adding bits of knowledge from my own research to what my vet thinks.
I asked at work for you, they loved thinking up solutions.  Their are too many to remember or list but here what my slightly frazzled brain can remember.
First part to do with stopping infection.
Firstly they would need to stop the infection so antibiotics like you have had, told them that hadnt worked and this is where the differences are.  In human you have about 3 levels of anti's you can use.  Apparantly after reading some general info on dog anti's they are not as strong and it appears that may not change soon.  So if the infection can not be stopped then they would remove a the worst affected section give anti's again to see if the infection would stop.  If that didnt work then if it was a toe then the toe could be removed.  I stress this is in human doctors talking not vets and it is all worst case scenario.

Second part if the infection could be cleared up so the wound was non active
First step to keep it clean, dry, etc.  Which you have done.  Then allow time to heal, again you have done.  If it didnt close then trim edges of the wound and stitch if practical.  If the wound was too wide then skin graft to close.

So putting a more doggy spin on it now.  Have they considered or tried stitching the wound when the infection isn't active or present?  Is it on the main pad or the toes, how practical is it to repair?

Sorry for the long winded reply but better to have too much info than not enough, plus you have all the other suggestions to have a go at from us all, you now have enough info to keep you going for a year!!! :-D

Last question as most rescues usually rehome in good health and any existing conditions will be treated by the rescue centre until healthy again, will they not contribute to costs?  Or get their vet to actually see the dog?

Emma

Hi Emma, thank you for reply, the wound is almost covering the main pad, very open very raw, also wound on smallest pad, this heals up almost from time, but turns around again almost over night, one vet i went to see said he would try to stich it if it was poss, but said it wasnt, another vet used to get a scalpel and slightly injure the wound around the edeges,to see if it would trigger off healing, that didnt work, i wish i knew how to post photos onto this fourm cos i got some that i have to send to this new vet, and as for the rescue, when i spoke to them i told them of all the trouble id had,and the fact it up to now had cost me an arm and a leg, plus they had just written to me asking me for a donation as my year was up scince my last donation to the rescue, they said they were a charity and hadnt got a lot of money, buy the next week a local paper was writing an artical on the rescue centre, they said that all dogs that they sent out went out in good state of health, id like to know what happened to Kiki then, anyway they said they would get back to me, but they never did, i dont know how long she can take these Corrtisone tablets, they are making her drink like a fish, she has me up at least twice in the night for a pee. We used to have a really good Danish vet round here, but he has moved away, im sure he would have known what todo with this. Oh by the way the vets here give a perscription to get antibotics they are for humans, so all the medication she has had has been for humans,  Tina

Hmmm, I think you have one of those strange cases where everything that should work doesn't, but keep trying maybe soon you will get a vet that goes "yes I know exactly how to solve this and it will only take a couple of weeks" we can dream.

As for the antibiotics, is that the strongest but safest dose they can recommend for a dog?  Might be worth asking next time you have to go for some reason.

Chin up and keep us all posted if anything suggested works.

Emma

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1350714

Is it worth asking your vets about either a skin graft or a collagen type mesh to try and promote healing of the pads if the wound is clean? Do you have any specialists in Spain that you can get your girl referred to?

Bad news today, Kiki started bleeding from the nose, we phoned the vet whos treating her, he is a long drive away from here, it was getting late, he told us to take her to the nearest vet, which we did, we got there just before they closed, we didnt get very far, i was thinking it was the medication she was on causeing the bleeding, she says no, but its strange but last week the vet told me to double the dose of corrtisone, two days later i noticed a few drops of blood on the floor, i thorght it was the sores on her feet bleeding, then today it was noticable, bleeding from the nose, i can tell you it was very scarery, anyway i still think this has something to do with the medication, tomorrow i have to take her back to this vet and she is going to do some tests, trouble is she wants to do tests for things ive already had done, total waste of time and money,  i have sent an email to the people at the rescue centre, i think they should know the extent of the problems im haveing, if she was still with them, it would be them trying to sort this out, im thinking of asking for the contact number of her prevouis owners, they may hold the answers, really worried Tina

Took Kiki to see vet with the guy who runs rescue centre, the vet has kept Kiki to run some tests, we will speak with them tomorrow, to find outcome, i hope i will be brining her home Tina