Hi,

Are any of you putting of breeding untill after the credit crunch!!

Denese

I breed in line with what I need and based on what age and stage in their show careers/lives the girls are at.

My girls will have no more than 3 litters in their lives depending on what they produce.

> Are any of you putting of breeding untill after the credit crunch!!
>

No I'm not as I dont feel that it ( the credit crunch) has any bearing on my breeding programme.
I wont be having any puppies, however, until I find suitable, healthy studs for my girls and that problem could take more than the average amount of research and the challenge of the  'political climate' in my breed.

We only breed when we want something for ourselves!
So we plan to have a litter next year, if we can find a suitable dog!

I could have breed 3 litters this year, only had 1 in april kept 2, 1 living here and 1 with a friend in partnership the other 3 went out of the uk.
this was her second and last litter she will now be spayed, i am planning a litter next year from my 6 yr old girl her second and last litter, if i had gotten what i wanted 1st time round these girls would have only had 1 litter each as i did not breed them untill they where 4 and just under 4.

I bred for me but have to sell what i can't keep if i could arrange it for my girls to have just 1pup  and for it be just what i wanted i would but nature dose not work tha way.

Sue

Of course though one litter and one pup would not give you a very clear picture of what traits your bitches are producing to which male lines to aid you with your breeding program, though I can understand the sent=ment as rearing and especially homing and keeping an eye on pups after is worrying and tiring.

I love having the new owners visit and keep in touch through whelping rearing and after they leave, but it can take an awful lot of time.

One of my new owners visited four times before picking their pup up, and they lived a good way away from me so stayed for a good while each time.

Some of the others also came more than once before pick up time.

Good question! :-)

I've finished breeding my bitch, however I am still helping with breeding programmes in my breed and will be having a bitch next year at my home for whelping and raising of the litter so will not loose touch, at present nothing appears to be changing at the moment, but the litter already has a waiting list and all homes will be accounted for.

With the way things are, credit crunch and the programme, I think it unwise for anyone to breed for just pet homes especially without a full list, I think many may be stuck with older pups or even some without homes, I definitely would not chance it.

But am being watchful of all breeds myself to see any effect.

I do hope that no-one gets caught out.

if any new owners are looking to buy a puppy then it would hopefully have been a long term decision to buy one with lots of thought & time gone into making this big decision & therefore if they are serious about the pup they would have looked into the cost beforehand and so i don't think the 'credit crunch' would have an effect.

> therefore if they are serious about the pup they would have looked into the cost beforehand and so i don't think the 'credit crunch' would have an effect.

Good point. So in that case it hopefully shouldn't affect genuinely responsible breeders who are breeding to enhance their lines and have waiting lists of committed people for puppies, but hopefully it will have an effect on bybs\ puppy farmers who are breeding for gain. ;-)

yes so it can be a positive thing!!

I agree, i love making new friends from the people who buy my babies,
i have only had 2 returned, re homed 1 and kept the other as she was an older girl.
my girls have has other litters, i was just saying that 1 pup is easier at this time as finding good home's can be a nightmare, some people come over very nice, but are good at pulling the wool over people's eyes, i have had that.

Yes some people only tell you what you want to hear, we have only had 1 female returned and we rehomed her to a friend within 2 weeks, they adore her, she was rehomed within 2 weeks, i dont think the credit crunch is having an effect on selling puppies, mine are all reserved and ready to go next week. we are keeping a female, very excited.

we have 2 puppies booked for our next litter, but the timing has tb be right for me.
I am hoping to keep a puppy for myself, if she dose not have an all male litter again.

hi carrington yes i agree with you,  i do not think that i would risk a litter at the moment even with a waiting list, with all the best intentions from breeders and buyers no one knows how bad this credit crunch shall get, or if some of there jobs are even safe worrying times for most a lot of people just dont need the extra worry or expence, until things become more settled in the financial climate.

We've cancelled our planned litter and advised all buyers why we've decided to wait a while, out of 8 of them 7 have said 'oh we forgot we were on your waiting list and would have to have pulled out anyway!'

Am so glad we have opted to wait now.

I think that everyone having to be alot tighter and careful with their money is better for anyone that has a good quality litter... it means that anyone thats interested are serious about having a puppy and are prepared to pay for a decent and properly bred puppy.... when they could just get bobs mutt from down the road

i still think that it is worth breeding good quality healthy puppies from health tested parents.  I sold all of mine to really lovely new homes, and they are leaving in 2 weeks time, so i am making the most of the little time left with them beforehand.  If responsible people have decided to have a new member of the family then they will still go ahead. Also, of the few people that were on my list it is ironic that they all did drop out or couldn't wait a couple more months! but the response and enquiries for the pups has been quite high.  At the end of the day if no one carried on breeding what would happen??

Would just like to point out I breed quality pups from health tested animals, despite schipperkes not having any health tests required!

The problem for us in the breed is pretty much standard regardless of economics - you're walking a dog down the street and manage about 4 paces before you get - oh whats that? - A schipperke - A what?  You spend the next 20 mins explaining the breed and how little we bred them ie 23 registered last year (makes the save our native breeds dogs look positively rampant lol).. You get the phone calls saying we're interested in the breed would be able to meet some before we decided, so you have them come to the house meet all the dogs a couple of times, lots of chat and vet referrences both ways etc.  Never do a breeding unless you've got 12 folk on the waiting list, purely based on experience we know by the time the litter is born all 3 - 4 of them, most of those prospective homes have gone for 'a less active dog'

Its not like we're not responsible or we're puppy farmers or that schipperkes are an unpleasant, unhealthy or difficult dog people just change their minds or indeed just can't wait.  5 of our puppy list people have lost their jobs so I'm not in the least bit surprised they've pulled out a dog at the end of the day is a non necessity even if we don't agree with that statement lol.

hi wendy  no i still would not risk having a litter, i am glad that your puppies have all found good homes, in my worst night mare i would not even consider breeding from sub standard stock, i know this happens, all our dogs have had and do have all the necessary tests required for the breed if we are breeding them or not so as we know what to expect for the future of our dogs and we can prepare ourselves, i have noted that some of the well known kennel names and some accredited breeder are cancelling there breeding plans for a few months to see how things  improve.there  still are plenty  good quality well bred health tested dogs out there and there are a lot of responsible people that have put months of thought into buying a puppy but sometimes needs must and they have to cancel ,these people probably have good jobs mortgages and children  and at the moment  with this credit crunch  no one is going to take any  risks quite rightly,  even though a lot  may have a contract s to say that the puppy can be returned if circumstances change a lot of new owners  are to embaresed  to adhere to this especially if the problem is financial it may not be for a few months that they find there selves in a dilema and i would hate the thought of any of my pups ending up in a rescue home or with some undesirable person, and of course its very expensive for the breeders thats the ones that do everything correctly, this is just my opinion i am sure the rescue homes and shelters would be happy if no one carried on breeding for a while, molly

>Would just like to point out I breed quality pups from health tested animals, despite schipperkes not having any health tests required!<

Schip - are there not hereditary eye problems with your breed?

Margot

i think ive been very lucky this time i had 6 on my waiting list and all 6 have picked there dogs i only have to advertise 1 dog and my sister as had him lol so for me all has been very good but i must admit wasnt sure if all was going to have then at 1st because of the state of the counrty at the moment ...all my pups go today and tomorrow :( :(

awwww your going to miss them.

I am guessing the people who can afford to buy puppies can afford to keep them.  If they are returned they will be found good homes or kept by us if we are good breeders.  Surely if the good breeders stop producing the puppy farmers will have a field day. 

Sad to say, and again just a guess, but the puppy farmers will hopefuly find they have no outlet for thier animals and stop breeding - sad because that means a lot of sick and frightend breeding animals will just be left to die like so many puppies who are sold in a sorry state.  It make may the public at large look more closely at what they are buying if money for a luxury item, ie dog, becomes scarce.

No. Those of us with American bloodlines do test for MPS IIIB a lysomal storage disease that's shown up in most American bloodlines. 

Turns out a lot of the cluster epilepsy in schips over there were down to this disease which is fatal but thankfully the mode of transmission is recessive, the schip test has now been used to develop one for humans, terrible disease for families to suffer as the cerebalum atrophies until the child dies. This will never be part of a kc scheme purely because by the time its discussed and sorted with a request for the kc to include it we will have bred it out as any of us who have carrier animals are breeding to eliminate it with the help of DNA testing to ensure we don't produce any carrier animals - for me that's the responsible way forward rather than removing carrier animals from the gene pool.

We are now collecting swabs and bloods for the Helsinki research teams who are investigating canine epilepsy.

A little off topic but closely related. My girl was just in whelp when 'that' program aired. I must admit it did make me worry about the timing etc and whether it would have put people off. I neednt have worried luckily but I do think it has affected a few breeds.

> The problem for us in the breed is pretty much standard regardless of economics - you're walking a dog down the street and manage about 4 paces before you get - oh whats that?

Y'know what?  I drive through an area of Dundee quite a few times & I've seen a woman walking 2 Schipperke, obviously I know what they are, but I wonder when Joe Public see's them what obsurd suggestions she gets because I know I get the usual spaniel/setter/retriever comments with my breed.

You'd be amazed I've had folk say is that a pomeranian? Which is a bit of a worry as I've normally got my daughters pom with us so I tend to say - NO that's a pom!

Have had one lovely woman who does 'healthy desigener breeds' say ohh what a horrible boring black mongrel!  My reply is well at least when I mate my Pedigree dogs I know what they're going to look like and how big they're going to get - how about your's love, the REAL mongrel?

The list is normally, the show offs with oh a german spitz mittel/klein both sizes which is too funny coz they've well and truely hung themselves before I even reply lol.  A pom, a bearded collie (gulp!) a spaniel - name any and we've had it, smooth coated shiz?

Schip, it's only ignorance with people but it is really, really annoying when they presume it is a certain breed and they haven't got a clue.. mine are often mistaken for springer spaniels although they are cocker's and it does wind me up!!

I hate how authoritatively some people say to their companion/child that mien are Husky/Akita/Chow/Dutch Barge Dog, and when I point out they are Norwegian Elkhounds the attitude is how dare I contradict them as of course I can't possibly know what they really are.

The not being able to walk far without being stopped is something I am well used to especially when we have a new puppy out.

> all my pups go today and tomorrow :-( :-(

Goodness! The time has flown by hasn't it. I bet it will be strange without them to begin with.
Good luck pupsters! :-)

The 'healthy designer breeder' knew exactly what the dogs were as she show's a toy breed tooo!!!!!!!!! 

Think she was just on her high horse out in the street drumming up business to be honest but unfortunately for her my breeding partner and I had just been featured in The Derbyshire glossy magazine as Crufts winners etc!  We did have a bit of a crowd around us out walking the dogs in our scruffs as folk had recognised the dogs, made such a refreshing change to hear ohhhh schipperkes!! Even if it was followed by they're the ones in that magazine they must be really famous, erm no just KC sending some reporter to visit and ask about the dogs.

I like to educate folk but sometimes you just want to walk them in peace don't you lol

Flat coated retriever has been long haired Labrador and GSP has been greyhound (!!!) when we've been out - as well as being a liver & white weimaraner....the mind boggles....

> how dare I contradict them as of course I can't possibly know what they really are.

How about when you tell someone the breed of your dog and they then say 'No it isn't'  !!??  I wasn't entirely sure what I was supposed to say to that... :)

yup had that when my ridgeback boy was 4months old, a woman came over with a great dane to see MY great dane pup. when i explained that he wasnt a GD but a RR, she looked at me and said are you sure?? because he looks exactly how he did as a pup, pointing to her dog. i pointed out his lovely ridge and said, ummmm no hes definetly a ridgeback lol. the mind boggles :)

I had a gardener in when my boy was a pup and he said what a lovely Beagle (obvously I have Dobes so nothing like a beagle ) when I told him he saiid he was a bit small....saw him a few months later and he said that is never that same dog, and what a lovely beagle he has grown into ;-)

One of my sisters bought as a present a book on Springer Spaniels for me, although I have always had for the last 18 years Cocker Spaniels!!  I give up!!

We were at our training class a few weeks ago and a man asked if our Dalmatian was a Pointer! and we thougth everone could recognise a Dalmatian thanks to Disney!! Just made us laugh.
Paula

I was impressed yesterday by a woman with a Lab who knew what our American cocker was!! Only met about 5 people in 6.5 years who got his breed right. They usually think he's a Cavalier as I have 2 of them as well, a Cav cross, or sometimes a Clumber - grr!! Mind you everyone thinks the Cavs are King Charles as they don't realise there's a difference. Can't believe anyone wouldn't know a Dally!! My Dad once came to a show and said 'ooh what a big Dalmatian' pointing to my friend's harlequin Great Dane!!

> My Dad once came to a show and said 'ooh what a big Dalmatian' pointing to my friend's harlequin Great Dane!!

He's not the first person I have come across to make the exact same mistake.  Nobody ever knew what my Dandie was but I can't say it ever bothered me after all how many of us can identify more than a couple of breeds of sheep, if that? :-)

And here's me chuffed to bits when I recognised a Lagatto at a show, first one I'd seen in the flesh, his owner was quite impressed too hmm wonder why, I'm always the same when folk recognise my schips lol

It's always a great delight to meet someone who does know your breed but what I mean is I don't hold it against anyone who doesn't.

> I don't hold it against anyone who doesn't.

I don't either it is the ones who insist on mis-identifying it that annoys no end, and they get so huffy when corrected.

I love to be asked, rarely does anyone know otherwise.
Most often people assume my boy is a Yorkie....he is far to big but his colouring is similar.
I haven't had much comment on the girl as she is red it throws people more.
Karen :)

The other one I get is "ohh is HE her dad?" .....aimed at my show bred bitch who is twice the size of my field trial bred bitch!  LOL

I'm always correcting people when they call my girls "he".  Even my mother in law and she knows them!!! LOL :-)

My favourite is someone I know who had a fawn pug and a fawn bullmastiff...... she couldn't go anywhere without people saying

"Awwww is that her puppy?"

my foxred labs: cross/mix with belgian shephard (malinois)
my chessie= cross of  choc labrador/poodle or they mention "first time seen a choc curly"
i dont even  comment on it or correct it .. just say: 'isn't she/ he just beautiful" ?