Hello everyone.  This may have been covered previously so I apologise for any redundancies....

I notice there are quite a few food additives/preservatives in dog food and treats.  Looking them up in my Chemical Additive book (for humans), there are some pretty nasty things in quite a few of the dog foods/treats.  Is it safe to assume that these preservatives/additives are harmful to the dogs (if they are to humans)?

I am really careful about what I feed my son.  He has an additive/preservative free diet.  The minute I feed him food with funny things in it, he goes nuts.  Would additives/preservatives have the same effect on dogs?

Thanks.

vetiver

I found a great treat called 'Barking Mad' . I bought on the internet, I think it is available in pet shops barkingmadlife.com

I always avoid treats with loads of additives and also sugar!!  It really annoys me to see sugar in dog food!! 

My guys just love fish jerky and also dried liver and tripe sticks.

I haven't read any studies to say it is harmful but for me it's just common sense not to give my dogs rubbish, after all you get out what you put in:) IMO :)

they do the same thing to many dogs as they do to kids (hyper mentals), but there are a lot of healthy treats and foods that you can buy. if you fancy making a treat for the doggies then liver cake is great, my boy goes wild for it :)

I find that if you stick to the more "raw" foods i.e bones from butchers, chicken wings, hide, etc etc you cant go wrong.

Thrive treats are really good, simply dried liver and it smells good enought to get their attention.

> Would additives/preservatives have the same effect on dogs?

Some puppies seem to be affected by certain additives in the way that some children are but I don't know many adults humans that are affected by these things, infact I don't know any, so I have no reason to suppose it would not be the same with fully grown dogs.

I am allergic to sunset yellow. :-D I would be, wouldn't I? ;-)

But I agree it does seem to be more youngsters with the problems.

I know adults that go loopy with coke and chocolate etc, all the things with lots of sugar / e numbers / additives. My cousin is the worst, she eats something she shouldnt and within minutes its like a heroin addict having a fix, the change in her behaviour is almost instant.
Whehter it affects adult dogs (or even humans) i think where possible its best to avoid additives and preservatives

So you avoid coke and chocolate? :-) 

The point i was making is lots of food contain sugar, e numbers, additives and preservatives. Coke and chocolate are on the higer end of the scale so the effects are a lot more noticeable in my cousin. It doesnt affect me.
Lots more people are now aware of what they are eating and check packaging to avoid the food full of the above.
If we are aware of this in humans, why not let our animals eat a healthy diet too?!

Fred's Mum I agree with you, it is far better to give natural treats to dogs than treats that contain lots of additives.  I feed my dogs raw, but for treats I give them home cooked liver treats or liver cake, bananas, low fat edam cheese and most fruits, occasionally they get a dried pigs ear, or natural fish treats, but that is very occasionally.

Foods with some additives affect my skin quite badly, one of the reasons I've stopped drinking some wines!

> It doesnt affect me.
>

That's the point I am making.  Of course we should eat a healthy diets, so sugar and fats must be considered as we know an excess will affect anyones health.  The quantities of additives and preservatives permitted in foods have not been shown to be detrimental to peoples health so, unless you show an adverse reaction to them, they should not worry us.  Many of the E numbers that you refer to are perfectly naturally occuring chemicals found in common foods that we could eat in ample quantities without any worries at all.  People should consider what they eat but they should not get alarmed about things that are safe and useful to our foods in order to provide a good diet either.

Isabel:E numbers are not a  natural occurance and research in America has shown that some are so bad they have banned the use of them!!!

Additives and preservatives etc are not "useful to our foods in order to provide a good diet". The only thing they are useful for is un-naturally extending the shelf life of a product so the shop makes more money and the consumer in the 21st century can do a weekly or fortnightly shop and the food will last.

> E numbers are not a  natural occurance

Oh yes they are. When they occur naturally they are not required to be labelled but if you use them as an additive you do.

> The only thing they are useful for is un-naturally extending the shelf life of a product so the shop makes more money and the consumer in the 21st century can do a weekly or fortnightly shop and the food will last.

Well that is modern life.  Would you prefer we all eat badly deteriorating food?

Hi vetiver,

I'm very careful about what I feed my dogs too. The only treats mine have are Feelwells - having looked at the ingredients they dont appear to have any 'nasties' in them. My friend feeds their dog the Bakers treats which are a very odd colour and seem to be full of E numbers - his dogs do seem to be quite hyperactive after having these treats, I'd never give mine anything that didn't seem natural in colour or ingredients.

JW crackerjacks and Burns treats seem to be some of the better ones that are fairly easily available.
Chris

>E numbers are not a  natural occurance

Many of them are. The 'E' simply stands for 'European' and the number is the one allocated to a particular chemical, whether natural or manmade.

Vitamin C (aka ascorbic acid) - is E300
Chlorophyll - the naturally occurring substance that makes grass green - is E140.
Lutein - the yellow colour that remains when cabbage leaves (for example) fade - is E161b
Carotene - the chemical that makes carrots orange - is E160a.
Pectin - the naturally-occurring chemical that, combined with sugar, makes jam set - is E440

I'm sure you'll find this article of great interest.

And another from the Food Standards Ahgency.

Thank you everyone for your responses.

My usually mellow puppy was getting very aggressive to my dismay.  He would go through these "episodes" that seemed really out of character.  Last week, I noticed rashes on his belly.  I noticed it again this week. These rashes came hand-in-hand with his very bad moods.   And then I made the connection - his "special" treats were making him break out and act mental (and mind you, he's a english springer spaniel, a breed known for their exuberance).  I have a great book called "The Chemical Maze" which is a staple in my handbag.  (http://www.possibility.com.au).  After having referenced the dog treat ingredients against the book, I was shocked!  No wonder my little puppy was acting like a psycho! 

Gosh....I can go on and on about food additives as I come from a family of nutritionists but probably not the right forum to do it  :)

Many thanks to everyone.

Vetiver

Gosh....I can go on and on about food additives as I come from a family of nutritionists but probably not the right forum to do it

I think it would be refreshing for comments to come from someone active in their knowledge of such things, rather than just what can be found and read with a google search. it could be of benefit to us all.

Please can we all keep on topic that being additives and preservatives in dog treats and their possible side effects.

I have edited and returned this thread for those that wish to discuss the topic in the heading

I give Air Dried Hollings Pigs Ears or chicken wings or pigs trotters or other bones or the Fish 4 Dogs treats

I tend to now use sandwich meat as treats, its cuts up small and I now have a 99.99% recall with the pup.

or pieces of cooked meat / sausages etc are great too.

Sausages contain a wide range of additives (as well as high levels of fat), not sure about cooked meat but I would imagine the packaged sort do.  If such things bother you what would be the point?

Depends what you buy. Quality sausages arent like that at all.
Chicken off the carcass from a sunday roast (for example) is a great treat for training and very lean and healthy.

I don't agree, of course, that additive free defines quality,   Many good quality, well reciped sausages will have additives but yes, using fresh meat is one alternative if these things trouble you.