You can see the full story  Inside Out, BBC One South, 7.30pm, Wednesday 1 October 2008.

lets hope it gets even more viewers that the "other" programme.

Hi Sal

I'm in Scotland so won't be able to see it.  Wonder why they are keeping it low key?  The Pedigree Exposed thing was national (although shown in Scotland a few days later).

have pm'd you x

Sal,

Do you happen to know if this is a story that has already been shown on this programme a few years ago ?

I'd really like to see it but I am in the North West. I do have Sky though, should I still be able to watch it ?

It is on Sky 984.
Chris

Hope it's going to be on I-player!

I wonder too if it's been shown before, one I saw a few years ago related the story of the unhealthy and positively sick puppies that were being sold by puppy farmers and dealers, but featured a 'breeder' of designer pups who claimed to be a good breeder.   Strangely I have seen many pups of multiple and designer breeds advertised in the free-ads, 'as seen on TV' - you can draw your own conclusions :( :(

Think this 'breeder' was on this TV programme before for the same things...
They have revisited him in this one I believe

Yes it looks like the same one,says it will be on iplayer after..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/09_september/29/puppy.shtml

Looks like he was fined then started straight back up :(

Notes to Editors

  The RSPCA recommends the following:

1. Always see the puppy with its mother in the place where the puppy was bred.

2. Find out as much as you can about the puppy's background

3. Always ask to see a vaccination card - puppies should receive their first vaccinations before they leave their mother.

Other advice suggests contacting the relevant breed societies in order to find a reputable breeder. Most breeders will have the mother and litter within their own home. They also say people should be able to handle and play with the puppies in order to assess their character before buying.



What a pity it doesn't say "the Kennel Club recommends the following:" :(

>3. Always ask to see a vaccination card - puppies should receive their first vaccinations before they leave their mother.

This is also a concern... I certainly wouldnt allow puppy to have 1st vaccine before going to new home... another vet may not use same vaccines.. and would have to start a complete new regime... also.. while some vets, including my own.. do vaccinate at 8 & 10 weeks, some vets are still on the 10 & 12 week regime.

I agree about the vaccinations. I told people to take the pups to their own vets on the first working day after taking the puppy home. Some phoned to tell me their vets wouldn't vaccinate till 10 weeks, others were fine. The only pup I had to vaccinate other than my own was one that stayed an extra week but I gave them a card so that their vet knew which vaccine was used.

Don't think I saw this the first time round so will be watching it (hopefully) later.

>3. Always ask to see a vaccination card - puppies should receive their first vaccinations before they leave their mother.

I'd disagree with that. Veterinary advice is that pups shouldn't be homed within a week of their first vax - so if they're vaxed at 8 weeks while still with the breeder they shouldn't be homed until 9 weeks. Equally if they're homed before the first vax is given they should be at their new home for a week before their vax. This is to minimise the shock to their immature systems and helps ensure a good vaccine response.

Ooh i saw this in the news this morning about how the puppy farmer had his license revoked by the council and has continued to breed in squalid conditions. Will be watching with interest tonight in view that they have a whole programme on it.

Missed the first few mins but why can't That Woman concentrate her energy on places like this instead of hammering the (mostly) good guys.
Place was horrendous, that poor Shepherd bitch, she was terrified of him and what a load of squit he was spouting!
Chris

> This is also a concern... I certainly wouldnt allow puppy to have 1st vaccine before going to new home... another vet may not use same vaccines..

Ditto, I explain this to all my puppy buyers.

:-(
What a truly horrible man. I could have cried when the bitch ran to the corner when he went in her pen. One of the puppies appeared to scoot along the wall away from him too :-( Those poor dogs. The man was so vile as well. His behaviour was absolutely disgusting - but what can you expect from someone prepared to make their money by abusing animals. It seems outrageous that this man can still keep dogs - let alone breed them. Are the authorities really so powerless to do anything? He has lots of outstanding CCJ's against him - can't they lock him up?

:(  I can't find it on iplayer yet, is it me or is it just not there?

I didnt see this programme, but i remember watching a programme a while ago about an old woman who bred GSD's. she had been restricted (i think by law) to how many she kjept but she broke that rule and kept the animals in terrible conditions. At one point she was hitting the (thin) dogs over the back with her walking stick. It brought tears to my eyes :-(

Ah i missed it, maybe it will be repeated sometime, our vet will only vacinate at 10 & 12 weeks, she believes they should have immunity from mother until this time.

I think it beggars believe that people would want to buy a puppy from this man ??
I only caught the last 10 minutes or so of this short story and after reading about people that have brought pup's from this man moaning about the pups death a few days after bringing them home.. Well I can only say its there own fault for there stupidity in the first place. I have no sympathy for these people only the dogs involved.

Are the GP that much idiots not to see with their own eyes how these dogs / pups are being raised?? Then for them to hand over money- hundreds of pounds too, to these scum bag's, don't they realise by doing that they are keeping this trade alive and doing well !! and giving all dogs a life of misery !!

Makes me so mad if only people would wake up and realise if NO ONE brought these puppies there would be NO MARKET and they would stop this vile practice. 

I also believe the way forward in this country for good dog ownership is that there should be a license for people to earn before they can legally own a dog.  Just the same as a driving license.

>I also believe the way forward in this country for good dog ownership is that there should be a license for people to earn before they can legally own a dog.  Just the same as a driving license.

As has been pointed out on another forum, you don't need a licence to buy a car. You learn to drive (often in your own car) before you take your driving test to enable you to drive solo. It'd be more sensible to have to pass your KCGC tests to enable you to have a cheaper dog licence (if they were brought back) than those who didn't bother. But a dog ownership test based solely on theory and booklearning is of far less value than one based on real experience with dogs.

I managed to catch this on Sky - what a vile man !!

Magica I see your point, I was wondering myself why anyone would buy a pup from this guy. I think the majority of his customers are probably people who feel sorry for the pups and think they're rescuing them from the situation. If only people would consider what happens to the mother when they think they are doing good by 'rescuing' the pups - they dont realise that they just line the pockets of the puppy farmer. The programme did mention this which was good.

Would have liked to see this as a national programme rather than a regional one, and the 15 minutes coverage was way too short - we need a good, eye opening, well publicised national programme on now - maybe "Puppy Farmers Exposed" ??

> what a vile man

Made my flesh crawl !!

Me too. If he was that aggressive to the potential puppy buyers, I dread to think what he is like with the poor dogs. He should be banned from keeping dogs forever. If only it was that simple :-(

I missed it!! :(

Does anyone know if its going to be repeated or not??

Sounds a sick man from what i have read and i agree he should be locked up or something, dont understand why there cant be more done to him!!!

So with you AliceC....It does seem a shame that lots of people and organisations are bitching about the pedigree dog exposed programme on bbc 1 mainly the KC - when that horrific practice like you said gets such little air time only 15 minutes- so wrong.

Someone should do an hour long show on that... give the British public a better insight into buying a puppy from proper true breeders that love their chosen breed and not trying to make a couple of hundred quid and for the pup to die 48 hours later.

Make's my blood boil.

Yes you can buy a car but it still doesn't mean you can drive it well... same as a dog buy- still doesn't mean you can raise and handle it properly?? How many people don't realise that more than breeding/ temperament and care is exercise they just don't think that it is one of the most vital things in a dogs life ??
People who were told they had to go to dog training class to get a daft gold citizen certificate just would not bother or getting a licence in the first place either.
They have just past a new animal law I think in switzerland where you have to train your dog so it will not bite anyone a form of a training licence- anyone else heard of this?  good idea I think. 

Does that mean you should be licensed and tested when having children too?!!  :-)
the line has to be drawn somewhere

I didnt see this programme, but i remember watching a programme a while ago about an old woman who bred GSD's. she had been restricted (i think by law) to how many she kjept but she broke that rule and kept the animals in terrible conditions. At one point she was hitting the (thin) dogs over the back with her walking stick. It brought tears to my eyes 

I see that programme too, she had also been banned from breeding but the crew found a litter in an outside shed and she still had way too many GSDs then she was allowed.
Thats the problem in my eyes the RSPCA or whoever are so macho to begin with but they dont follow through! They honestly trust these people wont just start breeding again when they know the coast is clear????

I think they should show a documentry with full first half of it in a dedicated breeders home showing how their dogs and litters recive sp much love, praise, treats, warmth and daily walks etc and the 2nd half to be full on with showing the comparison of dogs kept with puppy farmers so people can see what differences there are :( The dirty dank conditions vs the bright and happy ones and if they still hate dedicated breeders then their a lost cause

> Does that mean you should be licensed and tested when having children too

I would say with some families yes lol I do! ;)

In reply to FReds MUm;
Are we all not on the same side here ? To better the control and well being of our canine friends?

What are having children to do with anything to do with owning a dog?
Maybe that's the problem in this county you either are a sap who treat their dogs like children [which leads to mixed up pets i9n my mind] and then the other extreme people who treat their kids like animals ?
I'm just having a moan about puppy farmer's here. 

It bugs the heck out of me when people who rush out and buy a dog on impulse from some no-mark. I know of a neighbour who has had 3 boxer's and 3 staffords in her life all one after the other... surely people need educating before getting a dog to only 18 months later get rid of it because the dog is out of control.

> surely people need educating before getting a dog to only 18 months later get rid of it because the dog is out of control

That is one of my biggest gripes in life Its takes nothing just to sit on your hands and wait to get a dog, why is it when people think I want a dog they have to have one there and then no books are brought, no breeders advice sought, poor animals deserve so much better then they are given.... :(

Ive just watched the programe online, what a vile man !! :( couldnt belive what he said about not allowing them to touch the puppy because the mother would kill it! and the way she cowered away from him, I hope they fling the book at him this time

I was refering to the comment "I also believe the way forward in this country for good dog ownership is that there should be a license for people to earn before they can legally own a dog.  Just the same as a driving license"
what im saying is its a great idea to have licences to own a dog, but to get things into context anyone can have responsibility of another life without any tests, licenses etc etc. When you put that into perspective i cant see dog licensing happening when motherhood isnt :-)

> Other advice suggests contacting the relevant breed societies in order to find a reputable breeder. <

Mmmm and there was me thinking the RSPCA thought we were the bad guys......

What happens is the puppy farmer or dog dealer gets banned, so he then transfers his or her business to another family member who is not banned, and so these places carry on and legally! Once the ban expires, the puppy farmer or dealer takes back the licence from the family member and "starts up again" even though he/she never stopped in the first place.

It's a loophole but how can you ban somebody who is supposedly innocent of ill treating dogs just because a relative is obviously bad? That is how the law works.

hi polly your right what you are saying re licences and changing them around to other members of the family, just to be allowed to carry on as buissiness as usual,it has happened in my area and it makes me barking mad , they need to make sure these loopholes dont apply. the way i see it the ban should be put on the property until every one that lives there have been properly vetted and everything is found to be above board,  they do it with most other things in life e.g if children were being mistreated or neglected they would be taken into care,  and everyone in the household would be scrutinised if the authorities were satisfied that there were innocent people there all well and good but the guilty ones to be kept away i find it very hard to beileve that people are running puppy mills from there own homes normally and other members of the family dont know about it, they are just as guilty as far as i am concerned even if they are not directly involved, my opinion. when you think about it you could have your home black listed you may not have anything to do with this but you shall stay on the black list until everything is cleared up i remember years ago going for the first time in my life i went  to get a washing machine on h.p i had never ever been in debt to anyone before i had never had anything on h.p before and  what an embaressement to be told in front of all the other customers i could not have it because our address was black listed, i could not work out why then it came to light the year before we had rented out one of our bedrooms for a few months and this person got a lot of stuff on credit using our address obviously ,then cleared off without paying the companies. so thats what it was, to our horror, fortunately for us it did eventually get sorted.i think any adult living in a house hold that is puppy farming should be treated in the same way as the puppy farmers until they can satisfactorily prove there selves innocent up until then all licences should be revoked and they and there property should be  carefully watched  for any futher activities. i am glad i got that out these people turn my stomache.molly, they are even trying to pull one over on the insurace companies, and k.c reg.

we could not get to see the programme regarding the surrey puppy farmer, but i did hear about it and reading your comments on here it beggars belief,  he has the right surname of lowe as in my opinion how low can he get , oh he would get aggressive if he thought he had lost a sale, why  the authorities can not remove the bitch and puppies as there was obviously cruelness  and severe neglect with the puppies shown on the programme.

Can't find it on iplayer or youtube at all :-(

It's here, but you need to download realplayer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/ondemand/england/realmedia/insideout/south/081001_io_south_john_lowe_puppies?bgc=C0C0C0&nbram=1&lang=en&nbwm=1&bbram=1&ms3=4&ms_javascript=false&bbcws=6&size=16x9&b[url=][/url]