Hi not sure which board this would go on

As some of you might know, i am thinking of a career change, i have come across dog handlers, in security.. i.e a german shepherd and being in airports, or something along those lines, and even maybe training dogs for guide dogs for the blind!

I also came across an Assistant Dog Handler and the money for both these careers isnt too bad either to say its working with animals in a sense...

Seems immese and such fun and a great career.

Does anyone work in this line of work? Or can anyone give some advice?

x

As some of you might know, i am thinking of a career change, i have come across dog handlers, in security.. i.e a german shepherd

I've not much advice but just wanted to say a lot of these are now turning to Malinois so it's not just GSDs. :) In fact I've sold Malinois for these sort of purposes. My husband has been looking at security work and the first thing needed is an SIA license -I'm sure you can Google and find some info?

I was researching about these licenses early today, i might have another read, and i only said gsd's because they are very recognised in my eyes and we have them at home, i really like the breed and would enjoy working with a gsd for this line of work... thats all :)

Just had a look and these licenses cost £245, is this correct??

How come they are so much, didnt see where it said they are valid from, does anyone know how long they last for?

x

The £245 is for doing the lessons which you need to obtain your license and also for registering for the SIA (Security .... ......) then you have to pay a further £245 to actully buy your license when you have taken the tests but some companies will take the whole amount or they will take it off your wages every week/month.

My friends boyfriend does this and absolutly loves it and thats how I know so much lol!
Im going to be doing this next year when I have my driving license, Ill be training alsations/Rotties and a few other breeds to be attack dogs and I cant wait as its my ideal job :)

Ohh Rach thanks for that!!!
Thats very helpful!!!

The wage seems to be pretty good doesnt it tho for this sort of job and i love german shepherds so much!!!

What sort of companies can you work for and is the job you would search for called "Dog handler"? Its hard to find jobs on google that have this title you see.... also would you get this SIA thing before you applied for the job or does the company when you start get you signed up for one etc??

Thanks so much for your help :) :)

They last for 3 years. then you have to sit a revision course to renew your licence. You don't have to provide your details again e.g. passport. birth/marriage licence, utility bill, drivers licence etc the second time around unless any of your details have changed. Copies are not allowed, only originals.

The course is usually held over a 3 day period, through your security company or 'off your own back- find your own venue' if you want. If you do it yourself, you have to pay the whole fee in one lump but if you go through your security company, it is taken in instalments.

All types of security require this licence ( bouncers, front of house, key jobs, shops, offices etc)- if you don't pass ,you can't guard.

Although a good idea to actually regulate the security industry at long last, sadly, a lot of good guards who have been working for years found it too difficult to pass the test even though they knew their jobs inside out :) Many of my OH's colleagues lost out like this through lack of understanding enough of the written english language and its nuances or through not being able to pass in a test environment.

edit to add - you have to have your licence first usually( your security comp. should arrange it ) but this is where working with the public are concerned - would think it is the same for dog handlers though too

Rach:Attack dogs???

I just asked my friend and her boyfriends job title is 'Dog Handler' they teach Alsations/Rotties etc to attack on command and train them using the thing on your arm etc so you can be on either end at time which I think is fab :)

My friends boyfriend found out about the job through being a doorman so I reckon if you send an email to some doorman agencies they may be able to point you in the right direction as they are all connected :)

Good Luck with finding out as I can not wait to start next year, Its my dream job!

Freds mum - Attack dogs means to dogs trained to attack for police/doorstaff etc
My mates company has a well known attack dog who is used for lOndon nightclubs and guess what they never have any trouble lol!
Also they have one Rottie who can fend off 2 people at one time, now that is impressive :)

Nope, tried to sit on my hands ...

Whilst I am very pleased indeed to see people finding a way to combine a career and a love of animals, I very much hope that there is strict legislation in place to ensure that general doormen or someone who knows enough about canine security work to refer to 'attack dogs' and 'things on arms' has an AWFUL lot of research and planning (i.e. many many years) before they would be allowed to delve in to this work.

M.

Lily MC you read my mind.  dog used by doorstaff or police would be completely different surely in terms of the type of training and assessments?

> I very much hope that there is strict legislation in place to ensure that general doormen or someone who knows enough about canine security work to refer to 'attack dogs' and 'things on arms' has an AWFUL lot of research and planning (i.e. many many years) before they would be allowed to delve in to this work

LOL I have only just found out I can even get a job with this firm and that they exist w so how on earth would I know all the jargon already?
Thats the problem you see, in this PC world you cant call a dog which is trained to attack on command a attack dog, shall I call it a fluffy dog which wouldnt hurt a fly so I keep everyone happy? No, its an attack dog and is trained to save peoples lives if they become in mortal danger from violence or if criminals (which Im sure you want caught) try to run away they are sought out and brought back to justice, whats wrong with calling them attack dogs when thats what they are?

> strict legislation

That goes without saying doesnt it for the dogs and trainers safety ?

> I have only just found out I can even get a job with this firm and that they exist w so how on earth would I know all the jargon already?>

The jargon isn't really my concern, to be honest - it's the whole concept of someone with so little knowledge of dog psychology and true dog security work being in charge of a security (NOT attack) trained 'Alsation' or 'Rottie'. However, I suppose companies that employ doormen and pet owners to handle their dogs may indeed think they have attack dogs. I hope they're well insured.

M.

> it's the whole concept of someone with so little knowledge of dog psychology and true dog security work being in charge of a security (NOT attack) trained 'Alsation' or 'Rottie'.

Who are you talking about?  
I seem to have missed something?

Calling an alsation (GSD) or rottie an "attack dog" isnt going to help the bad image theyve got through bad press in media etc. I've never heard police use the term attack dog

Im sorry but I have evidence here to suggest they are called attack dogs, and its even what the Army call their dogs too, look at this link and you will see what I mean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_dog

I believe the pic to the right shows how the military use 'Attack'' dogs and also call them that too, so there you go! :)

Freds mum have you actully been around police dogs to hear what terms they use?
I am using the correct term for the dog being used, I am in no way saying they are dogs which attack at random, Im talking about dogs when trained to attack, please dont make it like I am blackening the name of dogs when I own staffords myself and would never ever do something like that.

I probably think all people are saying is that "Attack" is possibly a harsh name and the term "Attack" can be taken into all different types of accounts... to me attack means attack without training, like just attacking for no reason.. whereas the GSDS etc do attack, but they do it on command.. thats the difference...

However thankyou for all your comments!!! Its something i would LOVE to do, its just tricky getting into it really isnt it!! Well i think it is... i currently work in admin, so would i need to do any night classes etc on this type of work, or shall i just do as you all say "get in touch wtih the door people etc " and find out companies that could want a "Dog Trainer" to me, it is an amazing career and to bond wtih a dog like that and it obey you to such an extreme, whilst helping the world solve crime it just seems a dream job to me!! :)

> shall i just do as you all say "get in touch wtih the door people etc "

Any security company should be able to help you hun as they all have to do a course, just get stuck in and see what people have to say!
My mates boyfriend did a week course I think and went from there so I think you would have to leave your current job and do the course with an aim of becoming an employee at the end of it :) But I dont know exactly so best just to get on the phone/email and have a ganders, Ill look too as Ill need to do this one day!

I know what people mean about calling a dog an attack dog, but thats what it is, same as a sniffer dog, drugs dog they are simply named to match their career and the link I showed proved I wasnt making it up lol I think its scarier and more intimidating for the criminals too when they know they have an attack dog on their trail so I think thats why the term Attack dog is used too cause thats what they do when they obey a command and thats attack.
I will always personally call them attack dogs but since it causes offence on here I wont use the term anymore lol!

Yorkies4eva,

Have you done a google search for "security dog handler" ? There should be loads of info on there for you to look at.

I don't think it would hurt to have a look online for some security dog handling companies and perhaps contact them introducing yourself and asking what steps you would need to take to become a handler. From my limited experience (we hire security dog firms for some of the buildings we manage at work) the training required is very comprehensive. If you do contact some companies, make sure they are approved by the Security Industry Authority (SIA) and that they appear reputable.

I have just emailed one company as we have been speaking!! LOL So wish me luck!! I hope they come back to me with something.

With what was said before about leaving my current job, i am not sure that would be an option as i wouldnt want to leave a permanent job with an incoming wage as of yet for something that may not get me a job at the end of it, does that make sense, its a bit scary.. however if i could do the training etc whilst still in work then was offered a position, i would willing leave... :)

I am going to have a search for some more security companies now and see what information etc i can get from them!

Is anyone able to give me any names of any reputable companies, i live close to Rochdale and not far from Manchester... if that is any help? Not sure if this is allowed, but would really help! lol :)

Thankyou so much for everyones views, it means a lot to me everyone helping and being so supportive!!  And i have learnt so much in one day!! And with you Rach wanting to become one yourself, thats even cooler!! :)

p.s if anyone wants to call me by my real name, its Emma-Louise :)

x

Hey Emma Im Racheal lol ;)

Its got to be my dream job, Im watch the training every saturday and its brilliant fun, the dogs are so focused and are soft and soppy but give them one command and all hell breaks loose but on the flip they have a one word command to stop the 'attack' and then its dead calm, amazing!!
Let me know how you get on and who kows if your still looking in a years time roundabout you can come and work with me lol!!

I am confused here :( Can just anyone become a security dog handler by attending a course for a week? Are the handlers chosen from people who have an extensive knowledge of training dogs? Surely it would take months to learn how to train and handle a dog that is used for all aspects of security work but it would seem from the information given in this thread that anyone can, and does, qualify if they pass an exceedingly short test?

If that is true then words fail me :(

Oh Racheal!!! It sounds so amazing!!! I have just emailed a few more security companies, so i hope to get some information etc from them now!! Fingers crossed!! Seems an amazing career and so much fun bonding with a dog like that etc...

Might sound stupid... but do you live with the dog... is it your own dog you would use? Hope that isnt a stupid question hahaha :)

Thanks for that offer!! How do you get to watch the dogs in action like that?? Is it through your mates boyfriend and you just sneak along? I would love to view something like that, i have seen it on the television and the obedience is immense and so amazing how these dogs work!! :)

By the way, if you dont hear anything off me for the rest of today, i leave work at 5pm so that will be why, but ill be back tomorrow!! :)

Harley, I very much doubt it - I'm not sure where someone has heard this but as I said in my post, from my very basic knowledge on the subject, the training is very comprehensive and would certainly not be done in the course of one week !!

My mates boyfriend did a week course I think and went from there

Key point was he went from having a weeks course just to get his license from the SIA and then had to go with the company and he did some away from home training for a while too, so no it aint easy street by any means and you ahve to be the sort of person who can handle that sort of dog.
Anyone can think Oh Im macho and I could do it, but my mate said many have tried and failed and thats just the SIA application!!

Its a long course, the hours are unsociable, there travelling to different places to take differnt dogs to people who need them so it aint easy street at all Harley believe me.

> Surely it would take months to learn how to train and handle a dog that is used for all aspects of security work

It does and you feel drained and slightly bruised I would imagine too lol
my friends boyfriend has been doing this for about 6 months now and is only now being allowed to handle the dogs when their being trained so he has waited a long time and not counting the endless trips back and from training.
All worth it in my eyes tho and if you want it bad enough you will work the unsociable training and work hours to do it!

Might sound stupid... but do you live with the dog... is it your own dog you would use? Hope that isnt a stupid question hahaha

No you dont live with it lolol!!!
You have one dog you train from the start (Not hands on just yet!) and he is your dog you work with or you take him where he needs to go, you travel with him and your his guardian in a sense until the roles are reversed but no you dont take him home!!!

Is it through your mates boyfriend and you just sneak along? I would love to view something like that, i have seen it on the television and the obedience is immense and so amazing how these dogs work

I wouldnt be able to sneak in lol
They let me come and see the dogs training as the owner doesnt mind, he likes the added distraction for the dogs while training and my friend plays with their pups (IE Young dogs not proper pups) too that they have ready for training, these dogs sell for thousands of pounds after being trained up here so its not a laugh it off job as there alot of money and dedication put in!

Haha sorry, i just wondered, because i thought in police dog handling you took the dog home etc and cared for it as your own, so wasnt sure if you did the same in this role!! Worth an ask!! haha

Dont worry I asked too lol! ;)

Rach any article found on the web has to be considered on its merits and any article found on Wikipedia can be called suspect as it could be written by you or I and published as fact. It isnt always a factually sound source.
The picture does in fact show a handler dressed in US milatary fatigues so it suggests that the auther was infact American which may well mean that the terminology may be used in certain circles in  America it doesnt mean that the term  is applicable in all circles or at all worldwide. In fact Police dogs, patrol dogs and secruity dogs in this country are not commonly know as attack dogs even if they are trained to hold the sleeve (that arm thingy)

I know what people mean about calling a dog an attack dog, but thats what it is, same as a sniffer dog, drugs dog they are simply named to match their career and the link I showed proved I wasnt making it up lol I

It certainly is NOT. A dog trained to do MAN WORK is trained to APPREHEND a person, keep it still, stop it from escaping, it is NOT attacking the person -ever! At first the dog will simply warn the person, if it has to be sent out after somebody it usually launches itself at the person to stop them -and if needs be will then grab with the teeth, but will let go the moment a command is given, and the job is then to watch the person. I could give you a gazillion links to youtube films showing this as of course my breed is one of the ones most used and indeed I have bred a dog that has been trained to do sleeve work (or should that be "the arm thing"?). Wikipedia is not by any means a definitive guide -it consists of material uploaded by whoever felt like uploading it!

You should also be interested to know that many dogs used by security firms are NOT trained to do man work at all, they are a visual deterrent only.

I've sold dogs to policemen, I've spoken to a lot of people in the police, in security companies etc etc due to having the breed that I do, and not ONE has EVER referred to any of their dogs as "attack dogs".

No you dont live with it lolol!!!
You have one dog you train from the start (Not hands on just yet!) and he is your dog you work with or you take him where he needs to go, you travel with him and your his guardian in a sense until the roles are reversed but no you dont take him home!!!

Funny that as the ones I've sold to security people certainly DO live with them at home......just like police dogs do!

i use to work for a company that trained security dogs and they were NEVER taught to attack! they were taught to be gobby! all mouth no action! and ive never heard them be called an attack dog before

Just an update, i have had a read receipt from one of my emails i sent, so i am just waiting a reply, hope i get some information or something!!

x

Yes i have been around Police dogs. I trained with the PSU so have first hand experience as well as knowing police dog handlers and going out with a police man. Never have i heard the word Attack dog used and as i said before i would be careful throwing around such a tag when these kinds of dogs dont have the best of reputations anyway

I'd be worried that if these dogs described in this thread don't live with the handler they might not build up a bond and as such 'attack' the wrong person!!  It sounds quite terrifying to me if these dogs are out and about but maybe got loose...accidents do happen.
What happens to the dogs that fail the course as in the police (correct me if I'm wrong!) they are rehomed up to a certain point in their training but I'm not sure what happens once they have been trained to hold the sleeve?  I saw a prog about RAF dogs and those that had been trained to hold but then failed the subsequent training had to be PTS as they were classed as dangerous dogs.

"Attack dog" seems to be a US term, not one used by professionals over here. It certainly gives totally the wrong impression, feeds the fire of anti-dog sentiment and gives strength to anti-dog legislation.

I had a reply and they dont do the dog handling at that specific company i applied for, so going to send an email to a few more

Not sure now and having doubts, only because i dont want to fork out almost 500 quid to find i either dont like the job role itself and things, or i cant get a job at the end of it because they all want experience... does that make sense... its quite a big step and i cant afford to leave my current permanent job for a job that might not happen...

Has anyone been in this situation??

x

> I'd be worried that if these dogs described in this thread don't live with the handler they might not build up a bond and as such 'attack' the wrong person!! It sounds quite terrifying to me if these dogs are out and about but maybe got loose...accidents do happen.
>

I agree about the bond thing, because i didnt understand how you would bond with the dog and get it to really like you and listen to you... although... my boyfriends dog, i dont live there and she loves me and has bonded with me in the time i have been with him, more than him! She gives me more attention, comes to me, gets excited when i arrive, does tricks for me and doesnt always do them for him!! And i came into the dogs life really late on, she is about 10 year old now! lol

So not sure really, works differently i guess for different dogs...

> I'd be worried that if these dogs described in this thread don't live with the handler they might not build up a bond and as such 'attack' the wrong person!!

These dogs are I believe highly and intensively trained - hence the ones that fail are not of suitable temperament etc. All the behaviours are cued - so the dog is not going to wander about rendomly attacking people - it would respond specifically to whatever word or gesture has been used to train that. Schutzhund trained dogs don't wander about attacking all and sundry either. A highly trained dog with the bite on cue is actually much safer than your average untrained pet IMO. ;-)

hmmm anyone remember "rosebud"???!!! :0

I think there is a big difference between 'military' and 'police' dogs, military dogs live in a kennel block and work with different handlers as dogs tend not to get 'posted' after 2-3 years to a different base but the handlers do, especially on a base overseas. Police dogs have one handler as they both work for one police force/area, as in the 'Met'.
Military dogs also work inside a Military base and have little contact with Joe Public whereas Police dogs spend most of their working life with the public ie airports, crowd control etc.
Dogs that do 'Security' work, ie factory yards, building sites etc are not about that much when JP is around as I think they usually work 'out of hours' when premises are effectivly closed to the public.
Chris

> Schutzhund trained dogs don't wander about attacking all and sundry either

Oh no I completely agree.  Bad wording.  It just seems that from what has been posted on this thread that it doesn't take much training on the handlers part to get such a dog.  I am probably completely wrong though.

I suspect (and certainly hope!) that there is a lot more training of the handler than the impression being given on here. :-) Am going to have to make use of Google now. :-D

http://careersadvice.direct.gov.uk/helpwithyourcareer/jobprofiles/profiles/profile644/

Found this - and would seem to be relevant for the OP too. :-)

'"Attack dog" seems to be a US term'...does it?  I live in the States and was sat open-mouthed reading this thread.    In the professional realm, 'attack dog' most certainly is not a US term.

Our K9's at the department are trained in bite work.  Bite...not attack.  Other dogs are trained as drug dogs or bomb dogs...not 'sniffer' dogs.  Still others are trained in search and rescue.  'Attack' and 'sniffer' are very generic, unused professionally, terms.  There are also dual-purpose K9's...those trained in both bite work and drug detection.

After a very intensive training course, the K9's are sent to live with their human partner.  At retirement (of the K9)...the partner gets first choice in keeping the animal.  Training continues weekly...our handlers receive 32 hours of training a month.

I'm very surprised, and taken aback, to read that bouncers and doormen are permitted trained dogs?  I don't live in a large metropolitan area so can't say if it's permitted here, but I've not seen it.  I don't know of a course I can attend that would allow me to train with a bite dog and then gain employment as a doorman.  That's shocking.  Are there no liability issues?

> hmmm anyone remember "rosebud"???!!! :0

I do!

I'm very surprised, and taken aback, to read that bouncers and doormen are permitted trained dogs?

I live in the UK and totally agree with this statement. I have never seen or heard of any person employed in those capacities that have dogs to assist them in their jobs so would be interested to know more about this. It surprised me as well.

> hmmm anyone remember "rosebud"???!!! :0

I remember that...it was Columbo...and 2 conditioned dobes

Would anyone like to elaborate on this 'Rosebud' thing, cos it means nothing to me? :-D

Anyone who is an avid 'Columbo' viewer will recognise the two Dobes... Laurel and Hardy... this particular show was hilarious

synopsis here

http://www.columbo-site.freeuk.com/dialm2.htm

Brilliant - thanks Kay. :-)

Have never watched Columbo. :-o