Did anyone see This Morning the woman who had her nose bitten off by a Greyhound she had had for about 6yrs, She was asleep on the bed when he had a go at her and there was really no explanation for it. Anyway they had Robert Alleyne for DB. His explanation for it could have has a bad dream about being attacked and attacked the lady in question but realised he had bitten her and ran downstairs on to his bed. Anyway she had the dog  pts two days after the the attack. But Robert Alleyne  made it qiute clear that Greyhounds usually make good pets. Not a lover of DB but what he said today made a lot of sense

Didn't see it - but I can think of plenty reasons - dogs are very sensitive to changes in our body chemicals and emotions, hence they can train dogs to detect when someone is going to have an epileptic fit etc - she could have been talking in her sleep\ dreaming which the dog found threatening or confusing, there could have been other underlying behaviour issues with the dog that maybe the owner didn't know about, the dog could have had a health issue eg a brain tumour - there wouldn't necessarily be any other signs - at that is just off the top of my head...

I turned over to it and was not really listening that closely but then i turned it up when she said that mainly she had come on to the programme to say that you should never have a dog sleeping on the bed with you.  She had had her dog 6 years and never had it showed any kind of aggression in all that time. But that one night it just attacked her face, new it had done wrong and ran off.  I have my BC which i have had for 8 weeks on the bed with me have done since day one. Makes you think though if i have done the right thing.  You can never really know with any animal though and its a risk i'm willing to take.

As I said I didn't hear the programme - but see no reason why a dog should not sleep on someone's bed, or how it would turn them into viscious psychopaths. I would also argue that dogs don't 'know they have done wrong' - they do not have a human concept of right and wrong, they are animals. It is probably just as well I didn't hear the programme I think. :-D

>but then i turned it up when she said that mainly she had come on to the programme to say that you should never have a dog sleeping on the bed with you.

What twit

>But that one night it just attacked her face, new it had done wrong and ran off.

What a load of tosh

Dog's do not have perception of doing wrong. She probably was screaming & the dog was frightened & ean to it's pace of safety

I often wake up to not one, not two but three dogs & two cats sleeping with me-they kepp you warm in winter, even if they do pin up down !

Umm I actually would be worrying about the owner myself.  Is she suffering from sleep apnoea and doesn't realise it and maybe she stopped breathing in one of the episodes the dog got worried and tried to help in the only way it could?

Nothing was said about her having any kind of illness. Just that the dog attacked her it actually bit of her nose and she has had to have alot of surgery.  So feel that dog was not  trying to help her. He did bite her.  As dog owners we know the difference from a play bite and a proper bite. Was mentioned that the dog could of been dreaming as they said that dogs dreams are like ours, how they know that for certain i do not know lol. Dog might of been dreaming that he was being attacked so thats why he attacked owner. Suppose we will never know. But when you think of the amount of people who have their pets on their beds then its a rare thing that happend.

I saw it too. Its one of the few attacks where I've felt sorry for the victim and can't see she was to blame, she obviously loved her dog and hasn't turned into a dog hater. The dream theory seems the most logical and its a shame he was PTS when it would probably never have happened again.

I've always had dogs on the bed and they'll be there tonight without the slightest worry, this was very rare. You're far more likely to be attacked and killed by your human bed sharers.

This is the link

http://www.itv.com/Lifestyle/ThisMorning/features/Dogattack123/default.html

The dog borstal trainer that was on there said he thinks the dog was reliving when he was attacked by dogs previously in his dream as dogs have same dreams as us as in moving pictures etc and when he awoke scared and startled he reacted and this happned to be in the way of lashing out and his owner was closest, he was also quick to stress it may have been a mental problem and his thryoids etc should have been checked.
The thing that got him and me also was the dog had shown no prior aggression what so ever and usually if a dog attacks there are warning signs, growling at people/dogs, not liking children etc but this dog showed nothing, zip, nadda which made it so confusing as to why it happend and quite sad too as she had the dog for 6 yrs on her bed after saving him from rescue.

I think personally the dog was dreaming and reacted how dogs do as he ran off knowing he had down wrong and immediatly stopped the 'attack' or mistake and ran off to hide knowing what he had done was terribly wrong where as an aggressive dog would pursue the attack until he had won.
Im not sure I would have been so quick to have him pts before having him checked out for mental illness or thyroid problems etc.

The dog borstal bloke also said he had seen a massive increase in aggressive dogs in the last 15 yrs and he puts this down to people treating dogs like people and not dogs which is what they are and how they should be treated like a dog to keep that pack stability and I have to say I do agree with him as so many people nanny their dogs and dont bother to train them and then wonder why they lash out or challenge the 'leader' of the pack so to say as why not if your not being told otherwise!!

Such a sad story in my eyes as it was obviously out of character and such a shame it had such serious consquences for her and the dog :( :(

> As I said I didn't hear the programme - but see no reason why a dog should not sleep on someone's bed, or how it would turn them into viscious psychopaths. <IMG alt=confused src="/images/confused.gif"> I would also argue that dogs don't 'know they have done wrong' - they do not have a human concept of right and wrong, they are animals. It is probably just as well I didn't hear the programme I think.

Perhaps you should have watched it, it was actually very good compared to most dog attack interviews.

They did not say that it turns dogs into vicious psychopaths.

As for the knowing he'd done wrong, that came across as the dog realised after he'd bitten that it was his owner and went downstairs. My dogs react that way if they accidentally catch me when playing with toys. They know they've hurt me and I won't be happy about it and they get out the way.

The dog borstal bloke also said he had seen a massive increase in aggressive dogs in the last 15 yrs and he puts this down to people treating dogs like people and not dogs which is what they are and how they should be treated like a dog to keep that pack stability and I have to say I do agree with him as so many people nanny their dogs and dont bother to train them and then wonder why they lash out or challenge the 'leader' of the pack so to say as why not if your not being told otherwise!!

This is where Dog Borstal is SO wrong and SO behind with the times! Most of the dogs you see on the programme have only been bullied into behaving better, they've not really learnt anything.......

> This is where Dog Borstal is SO wrong and SO behind with the times! Most of the dogs you see on the programme have only been bullied into behaving better, they've not really learnt anything.......

Not at all, even the trainer we use from the APDT said she has seen a massive increase in aggressive dogs, people need to remember yeah its a cuddly pet but it is a dog with a dog mentality, not a child or a subsititue for anything, its a dog, so even trainers who are well respected and have been around for much longer then dog borstal are saying the numbers have increased, come on,  you only have to walk into a park to compare it to 10 yrs ago, how many dogs did you encounter for a start 10 yrs ago? Not many im guessing, but now you cant be off running into someone on every walk and often they are aggressive and untrained, so I think they are 100% accurate in saying aggressive dogs have increased IMHO as no one bothers to train hardly anymore!!

> Not at all, even the trainer we use from the APDT said she has seen a massive increase in aggressive dogs, people need to remember yeah its a cuddly pet but it is a dog with a dog mentality, not a child or a subsititue for anything, its a dog, so even trainers who are well respected and have been around for much longer then dog borstal are saying the numbers have increased, come on,&nbsp; you only have to walk into a park to compare it to 10 yrs ago, how many dogs did you encounter for a start 10 yrs ago? Not many im guessing, but now you cant be off running into someone on every walk and often they are aggressive and untrained, so I think they are 100% accurate in saying aggressive dogs have increased IMHO as no one bothers to train hardly anymore!!

Are you saying more people own dogs or less people train them than 10 years ago? I can't say that I've noticed an increase in actual dogs and I've been a dog owner in the same area for 15 years.Perhaps one reason for the perceived increase is the availability of help these days with the internet,there may have been the same amount of dogs with problems but people just lived with it rather than seeking help from trainers and forums etc?

> Are you saying more people own dogs or less people train them than 10 years ago?

Both I suppose!
There are people owning dogswho really shouldnt due to exactly like you say the internet and way to easier access to puppies with no hinders or words of warning IE BYB and also people deffo arent training their dogs as much as they should, Im not saying make them perfect to everything but a basic recall wouldnt go amiss would it when they insist on letting their dogs of lead?! lol

> there may have been the same amount of dogs with problems but people just lived with it rather than seeking help from trainers and forums etc?

Forums do help but nothing subsitutes a good training class which so many dont bother with :(

> Forums do help but nothing subsitutes a good training class which so many dont bother with :-(

I apreciate that,I meant people seeking advice and getting advised to find a good trainer.It's much easier to find one now with various websites etc.I think there have always been good and bad owners and there's certainly always been ways to easily buy a puppy if you look in the wrong places :(

>The dog borstal bloke also said he had seen a massive increase in aggressive dogs in the last 15 yrs and he puts >this down to people treating dogs like people and not dogs which is what they are and how they should be treated >like a dog to keep that pack stability

Actually what he said was that people were treating dogs like children or people or cuddly toys and then expecting them to behave and react like people or children and that this was impossible as dogs can only think, react and behave like dogs.  If the dog was treated like a dog - as the family dog used to be many years ago, and knew it's boundaries then fewer of these attacks would happen.  Can't help thinking there's a lot of sense to that ;)

Re the attack, I couldn't help wondering, in the absence of a medical problem, if the woman had suddenly started snoring loudly.  A Half-awake dog who has experienced attacks by other dogs might then react as if being threatened.

FWIW Rach85 I don't think there are either more dogs/owners or more serious behaviour problems (pro rata at any rate) today than in the decade or so before.  I've lived in the same home for over 20 years and face onto open parkland and bridlepaths - the local dog walking population doesn't seem to have risen in that time, even in the spring and summer months when there are increased visitors to the area.

I think aggression & behaviourists is akin to the chicken and egg scenario ...... 
personally I think the clue is ££££s ;)

regards, Teri

I was actually going to watch it, until I heard the preview, that the woman was going to state that dogs should not now be allowed on beds, I just walked away form the tv and went back into my office, deciding it was going to be a typical over-reaction.

It's a shame that the dog was pts, if the outcome is most probably a dream gone wrong. :-(

I don't actually agree with dogs on the bed myself, (main reason hairs, dog breathe, and they take up too much room :-D ) have never done it, but have no views on what others do, if they enjoy their dog/s cuddled up to them on the bed then so be it, now cats a different story they have always been at the bottom of the bed and personally I would be a lot more worried at a scratch or nip from a cat than ever a dog, I can fall asleep on the sofa with my girl snuggled up and never worry, whereas the cats generally like to have a good paw and 'bread nead' before they settle, not caring if your body is under their claws. :-D

I used to have a cat who if you slept in (Sunday etc) and wanted feeding would walk up to my sleeping body and bite my finger. The Little...........darling! :-D

But dogs, I don't know why anyone should use this terribly sad event as a reason to kick their dogs off the bed. I'm sure we will not be reading anymore stories of this happening in the near future.

Some dogs can suffer from sleep aggression, but it doesn't mean they are aggressive :)

Humans can also have this problem as far as I am aware. We don't put our other halves to sleep over this.

I do understand though that this woman had quite a serious bite to her face (she's had a fair bit of surgery done) and that she was very sad she felt the only option was to put her dog to sleep; also that she has another dog. I don't put her down as a dog hater or anything like that - I think she was just trying to warn others, perhaps though they did need someone to mention sleep aggression as if it was that it could put it into perspective..the trainer's view the dog coud have been dreaming is valid (although I don't usually agree with those trainers, in this case he made a good point).

I have my dogs on the bed sometimes I have to say (and this won't stop me) :)

Marianne B

Whilst dog borstal has the 'front' of being a tough programme just for the sake of making it more 'interesting' for the GP, the dogs are never bullied into anything. Owners maybe :) but never the dogs - have you actually watched many? I often watch it, mainly to wonder at some of the dog owners out there!  I know Robert Alleyne too, and he is a very caring empathetic person towards dogs and people, and a very good trainer. I thoroughly agree with his assessment of people treating dogs like babies/children, and this is frequently with toy/terrier breeds, though not exclusively, which certainly will result in disaster (a certain little Pom at our agility club springs immediately to mind).

I didn't see the programme, and it sounds so very, very sad. Maybe the owner maybe did something very frightening (to the dog) in her sleep. I have actually sat up in bed (asleep) and hit my OH really hard in the chest, because of a dream I was having (yes I really was asleep :)) Sadly we will never know. I do hope this doesn't damage the Greyhounds image, they have a tough enough time as it is.
Kat

I have owned dogs in this area for 20 years, now.
Around here, there hasn't been any increase or decrease that i can see in dog ownership, nor in badly behaved dogs.
What has increased is paranoia in dog owners and parents of young children in that time.
Many dog owners now pick up their small dog, or put their big dog on lead and walk away when they see another dog approaching (any dog, on lead or not). I also hear lots of parents say to their child, watch out there's a dog behind you, or be careful that dog will bite you if you don't watch out, or tell them they can't go over and stroke the dog in case it's not friendly (even though I always explain that he is friendly) etc. Whereas most people are still happy with dogs, and behave as everyone did in the past (letting their dogs interact with others, and letting their children stroke dogs if the owner agreed), I think all the bad publicity has made others very wary, so they are scared. My current dog is a lab/collie cross, so not the kind of dog to be intimidated by.

ChinaBlue

Agree with your comments about Dog Borstal training.  All of the dogs that I've seen have become completely immune to their owners inept and counterproductive attempts at training them.  Their owner's voice means nothing to them - they are either used to constant shouting or continual sweet talk - and most all of them are pampered with all sorts of treats and toys.   A squirt bottle or a shaker can or a spray collar is necessary to get them to pay attention and I don't consider that bullying.   Especially in many cases where its to the point where the owners are so frustrated that they are either ready to rehome the dog or have it PTS.

We'll never know what caused the greyhound to attack its owner.   A dream.  A health problem, like a brain tumour.   The shame of it is that this one in a billion instance makes it to the news.   My husband's daughter came for a visit this week with her 4-month old daughter.  My two dogs are very friendly and one in particular adores babies and young children.  All he wants to do is give them a couple of licks and then he lays right next to them, never leaves them until they go home.   This is daughter's first baby so she's a bit obsessive about germs and such - but what's the first thing she mentions this visit?  The greyhound.   I could just see her mind whirling around wondering what body part was at risk.  And then we were quizzed about how often the dogs were wormed, etc.  :-)  (Meanwhile, she does have a cat.)

My two dogs sleep on my bed and will continue to do so.  

> I also hear lots of parents say to their child, watch out there's a dog behind you, or be careful that dog will bite you if you don't watch out, or tell them they can't go over and stroke the dog in case it's not friendly (even though I always explain that he is friendly) etc.

I am a parent who has always told my children to NEVER approach somebody elses dog unless the owner is with it, and never stroke somebody elses dog without asking. My kids have grown up with dogs and are used to being able to kiss their faces and give them great big bear hugs but they should know that not all dogs are used to this and even if they are - not all dogs will be comfortable with strangers kids. I little bit of 'dog savvy' could save a lot of people from gettng bitten :)

>Many dog owners now pick up their small dog, or put their big dog on lead and walk away when they see another dog approaching

I think the DDA may be partly responsible for this, I keep my Mastiff on a long-line and call him in to sit when I see other dogs - partly because I want to be responsible and not allow my boitrous 'teenager' to pester people and partly because I worry about people taking his exited behaviour the wrong way and reporting him as a dangerous dog (a huge dog doing play-bows can look frightening if you're not used to it) :(

Back to the topic - what an awfull thing to happen, but heres a thought, my OH often fidgets in his sleep and many times I have been woken by his elbow cracking me full force in the side of the head, he denys any recolection of it and never even noticed the time when I woke my self up by responding to a elbow in the nose by walloping my arm accross his face. Completely possible that the woman accidently hurt the dog, she wouldn't remember doing it. Whatever happened, it must have been awful for her, to be woken by her beloved dog biting her nose :(

so I think they are 100% accurate in saying aggressive dogs have increased IMHO as no one bothers to train hardly anymore!!

I'm going to agree with you upto a certain extent there, I wouldn't necessarily say there are more aggressive dogs, but I will back you up with there are more untrained dogs around, just let loose to run up to other dogs and people with no recall training etc, sometimes leading to dog fights too.

I think the attitute towards this greatly depends on where you live, where I live now, (country location) I meet well trained dogs and not anything unusual in numbers.

Where I lived previously on a new housing estate, which grew and grew and grew, over the years I lived there, there was a tendancy to have cats, not too many dogs around really, by the time I left there were dogs everywhere, walking around the fields and woodlands there became a nightmare as loose unruly dogs were always causing a problem, for dogs and people. I still have many friends on the estate and go visit there and I won't take my girl now as we do tend to meet quite a few dog aggressive dogs and there are so many dogs in one area too it is not enjoyable.

So views on this will greatly depend on area.  If I still lived there I would think the dog population was through the roof, along with aggression, but I know that is only down to bad ownership and lack of training, many people on the estate are out at work most of the day and obviously dogs are not being trained when home and just left to the odd bit of weekend work, or even as happens, think a dog will just train itself. **rolleyes**

> I've lived in the same home for over 20 years and face onto open parkland and bridlepaths - the local dog walking population doesn't seem to have risen in that time, even in the spring and summer months when there are increased visitors to the area.

It think this may well be so in the country, but I'm not sure the same can be said in the city.  More people having dogs, more working full time, leaving them all day and wondering why they have problems..... before I get lynched I'm not saying it's not possible to work and have a pet - just that we seem to live in a must have society where people do or get what they want, without thinking whether or not they can provide the right environment or care for the animal.

It's a very sad story and I think it is a tragedy that the dog was PTS, but to be honest it was probably inevitable.

If a dog bites your hand, you can probably get over it, but to actually take your nose off would be traumatic beyond belief. The woman would have required tons of surgery and I would imagine counselling, and will be scarred for life. In the emotional state she would have been in for the weeks and months after the bite, she wouldn't have been able to take care of the dog herself, and I cannot imagine many shelters, let alone families, would be willing to take in or rehome a dog who had bitten the nose off its last owner's face.

Our dogs sleep on the bed, but I'm sure I'll be having my face tucked well under my pillow for the next few nights!

I live in a City and I would say that the opposite is true, I see fewer and fewer dogs being walked on the streets than I did when I first moved here 20 years ago, and when I lived in London.

Dogs taken everywhere with their owners like mine (because I don't drive) get a lot of socialisation and of course being on lead this is controlled exposure.

It seems that these days with everyone driving and being busy walking the dog consists of putting them in the car,a nd getting to a walking area by which time the dogs are really excited.  when let off the lead they are thoroughly wound up and takes a bit of time to run that off.

If they then meet people and other dogs they are in a heightened state of excitement less conducive to listening to any training they have had.

I now have a boyfreind/partner/lover (come on ladies what do you call them when your over 40, boyfreind sounds juvenile, partner sounds like business, adn lover sounds like boasting!) and must admit over the last few months have been driving to some of our walks, and will have to make a conscious effort to keep taking the gang out on errands (instead of being driven) and the shopping centre as I used to especially with the new pup, so my dogs stay as bomb proof as ever.

> A squirt bottle or a shaker can or a spray collar is necessary to get them to pay attention

I disagree. That is bullying. And there are other - positive - ways to get a dog to want to pay attention; I have watched the programmes, though not all - I have never once seen a clicker used.

> (come on ladies what do you call them when your over 40, boyfreind sounds juvenile, partner sounds like business, adn lover sounds like boasting!) Definately lover :-) nothing wrong with boasting... :-)  I've been single for so long, I think I'd be shouting it from the rooftops :-)

I can see your point.  Most round here do drive to the parks (so from quite a distance as we are lucky to have some wonderful parks), but the number who have ever been near a training class, or who take their puppys out and about socialising is very few.

Oh B - bad language and a luvvvvver   Methinks the lady is doing goooood!

Call him what you like kiddo (and who cares if that sounds boastful ;) )

Be happy, Teri x

> I have never once seen a clicker used

I have never used a clicker but dont believe that it is neccesary in positive reinforcement training in animals.
When 'shaping' a behaviour in dogs the bridge does not have to be a click it can be any signal -even the most subtle of non verbal/audible type. Mine at the moment is a big wide open-eyed stare. Many good empathetic dog owners are bridging without even knowing it...they just think they have a great dog :-)

Rach85...put your fingers in your ears.......

In my experience, the only increase in aggressive dogs is in the Staff/staff - type/staff-cross population of which there is a bit of a population explosion.
So ..... using my own observations of the owners of these type of owners, I dont feel that it is treating them as human baby substitutes that is the problem.
Yes yet again I agree with that alround smarty pants (aka twin) Teri  - it is mass breeding for the mighty dollar. :-(

Many dog owners now pick up their small dog, or put their big dog on lead and walk away when they see another dog approaching

I always put my dog back on a lead when i see anyone or another dog approaching. I think it is polite. and in the worst case scenario if you come across a nasty dog, you know yours is on a lead and you have control of it.
I dont like spiders and wouldnt appreciate one on me, same as some people dont like dogs and wouldnt like one jumping up at them.

I would say that there are actually more people training today, but maybe in different fields of dog sports.

The only difference today from 20 years ago is that it is reported on more, I don't think incidences have gone up more, just that TV, newspapers, internet etc. are reporting on it more frequently and that actually these days people report incidences more to the police etc.  I never see stray dogs these days like you used to 20 years or so ago.

I put my dog on a lead when another approaches as he was attacked by one and he now attacks first even if the dog is friendly!  I hate people who just leave their dogs off the lead to annoy mine!

Not at all, even the trainer we use from the APDT said she has seen a massive increase in aggressive dogs

Not at all what? My comment was that DB is stuck in the past with their dominance and pack theories -what has that got to do with numbers of aggressive dogs? Absolutely nothing  -especially as they (DB) are not helping, only scaring dogs which can make things worse. Certainly in this week's episode they could easily have taught one of the dogs to be MORE aggressive towards other dogs...... I also noticed they allowed choke chains on 2 dogs, which makes it clear the DB people can't be APDT members. So I don't see the relevance of your APDT remark.

come on,  you only have to walk into a park to compare it to 10 yrs ago, how many dogs did you encounter for a start 10 yrs ago? Not many im guessing, but now you cant be off running into someone on every walk and often they are aggressive and untrained, so I think they are 100% accurate in saying aggressive dogs have increased IMHO as no one bothers to train hardly anymore!!

Compared to 10 years ago, I'd say I see roughly HALF as many dogs being walked as then. (When looking at the same area. If I looked at the area I lived in then compared to where I live now, it'd be 95 % less.) If we go back 20 or 30 years I still see less dogs now than then. And more are trained.

I don't actually agree with dogs on the bed myself, (main reason hairs, dog breathe, and they take up too much room :-D ) have never done it, but have no views on what others do,

That's exactly like me! So many people think I'm horrible when I say I could never have a dog on my bed -it would drive me insane. The hairs and dirt being the main reason. :) But I don't mind at all if OTHER people do. It's up to them!

Whilst dog borstal has the 'front' of being a tough programme just for the sake of making it more 'interesting' for the GP, the dogs are never bullied into anything.

I would CERTAINLY call a rattle bottle and shouting bullying.

I now have a boyfreind/partner/lover (come on ladies what do you call them when your over 40, boyfreind sounds juvenile, partner sounds like business, adn lover sounds like boasting!)

You tell them it's such a big problem to know what to call them, they have to make sure you can call them HUSBAND in future! That's exactly what I did, LOL!!

I have never used a clicker but dont believe that it is neccesary in positive reinforcement training in animals.
When 'shaping' a behaviour in dogs the bridge does not have to be a click it can be any signal -even the most subtle of non verbal/audible type. Mine at the moment is a big wide open-eyed stare. Many good empathetic dog owners are bridging without even knowing it...they just think they have a great dog

Thanks toolz - I was beginning to think that I was the only one who didn't see the point of using a clicker. You have to phase it out anyway! 9 of mine have passed their Gold GCDS tests without a single "click".  What's wrong with words, hand signals and titbits?

Lots of people use clicker training without a clicker! I never use clickers but all my dogs are clicker trained. It's not the CLICKER that makes the training, it's the type of training. A click can just as easily be a word, a sound or a signal.

>So many people think I'm horrible when I say I could never have a dog on my bed -it would drive me insane.

You're absolutely right - it's horrible. But since Clover died (and even more so since her recent stroke) it's been the only place Beattie will sleep. If she's left downstairs she barks randomly throughout the night. If she's shut away from us anywhere she barks and howls and self-mutilates. So, if anyone's to get any sleep at all, she has to be on the bed with us ... and it's a nightmare. After about an hour's sleep she starts to fidget, and gets up, shakes, walks around the bed stomping on Ned & me before settling down again, only to repeat the process in another quarter of an hour. If she was a young dog I couldn't bear it, but at her age it won't be forever.

OMG!!! I didnt see it no, but thats really bad!! Poor woman and poor dog! He probably didnt even know he was doing it if he was dreaming and then realised. What a sad story

Then greyhounds i have come across have always been friendly and loved people so its very strange!!

I now have a boyfreind/partner/lover

Brainless, sooooooo HAPPY for you, I've obviously missed out on some juicy gossip. :-D

I think I would call him my partner. Glad that you finally let someone in.

Good luck! ;-)

>I now have a boyfreind/partner/lover

Woot! :)

I think I'd say partner too.

Your chap? Your fella?

I know its not true but whenever i hear people say partner it makes me think of same sex couples as otherwise they would be boyfriend/girlfriend, although obviously i do reslise its different as you get older :-)

partner sounds like business, adn lover sounds like boasting!

hey, if he's worth boasting about, you go for it!

> It's not the CLICKER that makes the training, it's the type of training. A click can just as easily be a word, a sound or a signal.

Call me pedantic,

but can we, for the sake of Joe Public at least, call it what it is then...... positive reinforcement, shaping, operant conditioning or something to discourage the belief that you can only train by using that infernal click :-)

Sorry I'm taking the original subject off at a tangent :-(

Sorry Tooolz but can't quite agree. I go to clicker classes, for a clicker trainer, she's the first person in the UK who attended courses on clicker training in the US decades ago, and we do NOT use a clicker in class. But it IS still clicker training. :) But my click is the word "Good". When my trainer says "click!" I say "Good". :)

Well my breed love the infernal clicker, they really take to it and enjoy hearing the click.  Some well trained Spanish using this method!

> Perhaps you should have watched it

Why?

> They did not say that it turns dogs into vicious psychopaths.

I didn't say that they did use those words - I hardly could have since I didn't see the programme and have no idea what words they used, now could I? ;-) I was responding to remarks that had been made about dogs being allowed to sleep on peoples beds and dogs 'knowing they have done wrong' using my own expressions - not directly to the programme. But that would appear to be what some people have come away from it thinking, wouldn't it.... and as facts I would say that it being dangerous to have a dog sleeping on your bed in case it attacks you is inaccurate and to say a dog knows it has done wrong is inaccurate....