we where out shopping this morning and as we where sitting outside at a cafe a man and woman sat near us witha  boxer puppy, we spoke and i just could not help but keep looking over to the pup, he said is he bothering you, no just surprised he has not got a tail, why should he , because there was a docking ban brought in, the mans face fell, what do you mean, so we had a very nice conversation about the ban, and he was shocked the breeder did not tell him about this the puppy was 16 weeks old, and what a cracker of a puppy, he said he felt stupid being duped into buying a puppy that should of had a tail and should of been aware of the facts, he said he was just a pet and they loved him, i told him there was nothing wrong with his puppy buy this time it was sitting on my lap giving me big sloppy kisses, we must of talked for over an hour and laughed at the things he got up to in the house etc, but still the same i never thought i would be staring at a docked dog the way i did and i really did not mean to stare just when you are getting used to seeing them with those wavy tails it does make you look twice
carolann

>i really did not mean to stare just when you are getting used to seeing them with those wavy tails it does make you look twice

It won't take long for tailed dogs to look 'normal' and docked ones to look strange.

The owner does sound genuiinely shocked and for that reason i so feel slightly sorry for him, but had he done his research before buying the puppy would he not know about the ban and the facts surrounding it?

I'd think most of the GP don't know about the docking ban. Many people didn't know that dogs were docked anyway; they thought some had naturally short tails! I expect his research was based on what the breed are like to live with as pets; nothing else really matters to most.

And if he read older books he would be none the wiser

> It won't take long for tailed dogs to look 'normal' and docked ones to look strange.

That depends on how many docked ones you are living with :-)

>That depends on how many docked ones you are living with

True. If you live with tailed dogs anyway, docked ones have always looked a bit odd! (And no doubt vice versa!)

Ahh but some Boxers are bought in from Ireland and it's still legal there to dock.
Althou I think there is talk it could be banned there next year.

Some puppies can be 'bobtailed' thus naturally short tailed.

So it may well be a genuine 'legal' short tailed pup. :)
But there are probably pet breeders that are unaware of the docking ban..

I have all three varieties at home - docked, bobtail and long tail :)

It won't take long for tailed dogs to look 'normal' and docked ones to look strange.

Not for 'dyed in the cloth' dog people of certain years it won't! :(

I have all three varieties of my breed now also, sorry but I really don't like them tailed, long whippet like tail with scraggly bits of fur coming off it.  The speed my youngster wags it too is amazing and how she's not injured it yet I don't know as the sound of it cracking against things really makes me jump, it does make me laugh though (the tail that is not her hitting it)!

I call my tailed Boxer who is 13 months old 'my little labrador' as it doesn't stop.
I wince everytime she bangs her tail, hers is thick like a labrador with a white tip.
So she looks quite symmetrical as she also has 4 white socks..:)

Her's doesn't really stop even when sleeping you can see the tip moving LOL.
The one real downside for me is she catches the others in the face with her tail and I've already had
one of my older bitches down with ulcerated eye due to being 'whipped' by the pups tail :(

Haven't had any tail damage yet to the tail.
But I don't strip it out either as I want as much protection there as possible.

As a breed I do think we will have to get the breed standard amended for tailset as traditionally
our breed standard called for a high tail set, obviously now that can cause some tails to go 'spitz' like
which in our breed standard now is considered a fault.

Also be interested to see in our breed if vets report more 'arthritis' or back problems in the years to come due to having full tails
as in Boxers the whole body goes when they wag...with or without full tails :)

Back problems, never thought about that, spaniels are known for the gay tail and they do suffer with their backs particularly the smaller varieties however I am not sure it would have anything to do with the length of tail.

The vigorous wagging of the tail is a bit odd when you think about it because as far as I know the wild dogs do not do so although they move them, of course, the vigorous movement seems to be reserved for the submissive attitude used to greet the higher rank animals. One would think this sort of use would not be gay or happy but more likely fear based.

Astra vigorous tail wagging certainly isn't fear - she wags when very happy.
When alert as at the moment (looking at doves that have landed on the bird table)
she's still as still can be, with tail down and no movement just watching.
When playing with toys on her own her tail wags and when playing with oher members the tail is held high
or wagging. She may well be lower ranking in the pack, still no sign of season and her litter sister
had one at 8 months old, they are now 13 months old.

But talk to her i.e. 'hello waggy tail' and it starts wagging, & she certainly has not had any nasty experiences from
this human being ;)

No, was not suggesting that it was fear in your dog or any other domesticated dog, just pointing out that in the wild dog it is. Strange that the tail in the domestic dog seems to be used totally differently to the few wild dogs that are still left.

Boxacrazy - have you seen them chase their tails?!?! :-D  My gosh it's funny! never had it happen with a docked one but Lily (tailed) must see her white tip and think "oohhh whats that" then does laps & laps round herself trying to catch it, bless the others they have no idea what she's doing! ha ha

The fun my poodle has chasing his tail which was a joy denied to our previous dogs with docked tails. Love to watch it.

Daughter used to have a full tail Rott, when she was a pup at class an adult Rott, Polly, used to go up and ALWAYS have a good sniff at the tail, end NOT root, and then look at her Mum and at her own back end as if to say 'Wheres mine'

Other thing we noticed... if you held the very tip of the tail down near the root the whole loop wagged twice as fast as the extended tail. tried it on 2 diff x/breeds with waggy tails and it made no difference so wonder if it only applies to 'traditionally docked' breeds that wag the whole of their bumas well as the short docked tail.

Be interested if someone else could try that and see if they get the same or if she was just a one-off.

Chris

my rotties tail, goes over onto his back when excited and the whole of it wags including the bum, and when we are waiting our turn in the agility queue his tail is over is back and wags from side to side nearly touching his thigh
it is a joy to see
carolann

> Also be interested to see in our breed if vets report more 'arthritis' or back problems in the years to come due to having full tails
> as in Boxers the whole body goes when they wag...with or without full tails

ROFL !!!!!

In the vets today a Young English Springer bitch with shaved tail that she had had to have part removed due to repeated injury. 

The owner told me she had always been anti docking but has now changed her mind and feels is should still be done.

Why so funny??

I am genuinely interested in what medical/heath issues may be on the horizon due to my breed living with long tails where once they did not.
My breed has been 'around' only 128 years for the majority of that time the breed has been docked.

Myself I have been involved in my breed for almost 20 years now, my mentor 60 years.
This is the first year that I have experience of living with Boxers with tails (my mentor doesn't have Boxers with long tails).
So therefore my knowledge is limited, is it so bad to want to know if my long tailed Boxer has a higher incidence for eg of spondylosis because she has a tail?

Should I be ridiculed because I dare to ask a question instead of sticking my head in the sand?

The Dog World is currently being hit with sensational journalism because some within it chose to stick heads in the sand rather than ask questions
or try to learn and correct or minimize impact of health problems within their chosen breeds.
So the whole of our 'world' gets tarred with the same brush..in the eyes of 'jo public'
We are all guardians of our chosen breeds it's upto the individual whether they choose to step up and try to make a positive impact for their breed,
but they shouldn't be ridiculed for choosing to ask what they consider valid questions especially when they don't have any experience in such matters
or any experienced mentor to call upon..in the Dog World we should all try to pull together as ultimately we all have the same desires for our dogs.

Health, Longevity and Excellent Temperaments (not necessarily in any order).

I for one never stop learning no matter how long I've been in dogs, the world constantly evolves, it's up to you if you want to evolve with it.

Boxacrazy
I was a bit confused then I re read yours and re read my own post.

I hi lited too much text I meant only to hi lite the bit about the whole body moving when the tail is wagged.(the problem with sneaking looks while working)!!
I do not agree with docking but that is only my opninion and my research etc has led me to that conclusion.
I am sorry if you were offended I was merely laughing at the comment on the whole body wagging. Boxers are so bouncey I just had a picture of this tail going every which way. Fabulous dogs.
I respect the fact that you are genuinely concerned and would never belittle that. Knee jerk reactions are the worst are they not. The more research the better. The more informed the opninon the better the choice.

> Ahh but some Boxers are bought in from Ireland and it's still legal there to dock.
> Althou I think there is talk it could be banned there next year.
> Some puppies can be 'bobtailed' thus naturally short tailed.
> So it may well be a genuine 'legal' short tailed pup.

If breeders are docking the tails when it has been banned... I know it still happens and stuff... but can they not get into trouble... as going off the dogs age you would know it was done after the ban? Or could you say the above, such as "i got it from Ireland" or "it was born that way" etc? Could anything be done to these breeders?
Just a question I have wondered for a while, i have yorkies and their tails are docked and i personally think they look so much better without a long tail!

The one real downside for me is she catches the others in the face with her tail and I've already had
one of my older bitches down with ulcerated eye due to being 'whipped' by the pups tail

Same happened to my old girly, Digger whipped her in the eye with his tail resulting in an eye ulcer, poor love. I too cringe when he wags it and crashes it into things - no damage to him though, only cups & flying glasses !!

Boxacrazy, I know some in our breed are worried about arthritis and spongelosis occurring with tailed boxers when they re older, do you know why? Thinking of my boy in the future 

thanks, Aimi

have you seen them chase their tails?!?!   My gosh it's funny! never had it happen with a docked one

My old boy (docked) chases his tail all the time, god knows why he is never going to catch it.........LOL!!

[tt know some in our breed are worried about arthritis and spongelosis occurring with tailed boxers when they re older, do you know why? Thinking of my boy in the future  ]

I wondered that also, not sure why having a tail may be a factor with  Spondylosis and arthritis  in Boxers, 

My boy(9yrs) old,  is docked, and suffers from both HD and Spondylosis... spondylosis was diagnosed when he was 5

I know in some European countries spondylosis is one of the things they test for in Boxers, along with HD and  Thyroid.

It has been a problem in our breed before docking was banned, some I would assume it will continue to be so!!, same with HD, and Thyroid problems.