Hi Everyone,

We have a 15 month old Westie who very recently started scratching a lot and had bald patches appearing on his back end round the base of his tail, on the sides of his back legs and in between his back legs. I took him to the vet who gave him a course of steroids for about 10 days which appeared to help. We were told that if this didn't clear it up to bring him back and they would look into something else, medicated shampoos etc. Well after the initial feeling that it seemed to be working and after the tablets were finished, low and behold a few days later he started scratching again and we discovered he had fleas, so treated him with frontline but he was still scratching. After another trip to the vets and a lower dose of steroids, which again appeared to help for the duration he was on them, he is still scratching so some medicated shampoo was prescribed (Malaseb shampoo). We bathed him in this, left it for 3 days then did it again (as recommended by our vet) then flea treated him again with frontline, again as recommended, but he appeared to be worse than ever! My husband and I concluded that he is actually allergic to frontline and he still had fleas.  By now I am feeling highly frustrated and feeling really sorry for our dog! My husband took him back to the vet who gave him an injection of antibiotics and some more steroids, again a low dose.

Now the poor little fella had to go in for his castration operation last week, which was a fairly major thing as his testicles hadn't descended and so had to have the full abdominal op. So we thought let him get over that before we get going on getting his skin sorted again. Well it has been 10 days since his op, he is healing nicely and coping well with a lampshade on his head but he is scratching like mad again. When I took him in for his check up after his op, I asked our vet about some different flea treatment which we have since dosed him with but guess what, he is STILL scratching!!!!!!  I really feel our vet doesn't have a clue, so we are actually going to take him somewhere else for a second opinion. We've kept the lampshade on his head to try and prevent him from making himself sore but he is just scratching where he can reach! I've checked for fleas and i can't appear to find any now altho he is still irritated, his coat is greasy and he smells a bit sweaty. We don't want to bath him yet as this will get rid of the flea treatment.

I would really appreciate any ones input on this, does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions we can try before this really gets out of hand! I have seen a previous post from a few years back saying about changing his diet, anyone got any good recommendations for this? Also heard about giving him garlic tablets, evening primrose tablets - do these help? What about bathing him without shampoo? Should we change his bedding?  Please, please help!

All suggestions much appreciated!

Karen J

Hi Karen,

sorry your little guy has been having such a time of it but glad he's on the recovery road after his op :)

Re fleas - fleas do not live on dogs.  They jump on, feed, and take themselves off again.  If there was visible evidence of fleas on your boy before and following treatment it is (don't panic!) a sign that you have very probably got a flea infestation at home as these little critters will live in the carpets, furnishings, cracks against skirting boards etc and of course any dog bedding around.

Thoroughly vacuum the entire house - one room at a time, emptying cylinder/bag between rooms, re-do each room and use upholstery crevice tools in every visible area.  If you have a steam cleaner I'd recommend that you then go over everything again with that to kill off eggs.  There are sprays which you can get for use around the home to kill off the little horrors but TBH the most important thing is keeping on top of areas regularly where there could be uninvited house guests lurking ;)

I add a small amount of garlic to my dogs' meals regularly and have never had a flea problem.  I don't approve of using chemical where there are alternatives so haven't gone down the route of sprays, potions and lotions in nearly 20 years with multiple dogs.

If your lad's skin condition is solely down to the flea problem then the masaleb shampoo will help cleanse and heal his skin and getting the family to add lots of hard labour with the washing machine, vacuum and steam cleaner should sort out the rest.  With central heating being required indoors of an evening (in my area anyway!) this is a prime time for flea infestation to peak.

Should removal of fleas not improve his condition ask your vet to do a skin scrape and also look into changing his diet as many skin conditions are the result of an allergy or intolerance to certain ingredients, most comonly (but not exclusively) beef, chicken, wheat, maize/corn and any form of gluten.

ETA: If his skin condition still seems likely to be a reaction/allergy, then also look into what household products may be affecting him.  Things such as the washing powder for his bedding, shake & vac type products, flash or similar on vinyl and tiled areas, air fresheners etc can all cause skin problems to our pets.

best wishes, Teri :)

A good soothing cream to use on the skin is good old Sudacrem used for babies nappy rash, I also have westies, but, luckily have not had skin probs. I do know someone who has used Sudacrem on her westie who has a grass allergy and bites his back end she used this and its now stopped the scratching, so I would try this.  Think about it, if it works on a babies tender skin then it should work on a dogs.

But also bear in mind that babies don't tend to lick it off and ingest it. ;-)

Usually when skin is irritated and broken (humand and canine) it's more important to keep the area dry as moisture breeds bacteria, so a relatively simple skin problem could go on to become something requiring ABs if inappropriately using creams, potions or even using a bandage for eg.

It depends on the actual cause, location and severity of a condition how it's best treated and I think this poster needs to at least keep in contact with the vet if deciding to use a topical treatment of any form.

All any of us can do is guess how best to proceed on the info provided -  IMO treatment specifically pertaining to the dog is best recommended by experts having already examined the patient ;)

I wouldn't use Sudacrem as I had a westie bitch (with very bad skin/allergies) who licked it off and then was very badly sick.

Vets can give you cream that doesn't matter if they lick it - sorry can't rememeber the name of it.

Ultimately you are probably looking at allergy testing which costs in the region of £500 so hopefully your dog is insured.

Ailsa

> All any of us can do is guess how best to proceed on the info provided -  IMO treatment specifically pertaining to the dog is best recommended by experts having already examined the patient 

Certainly - not sure if your post was intended in response to mine - but mine was intended to point out that applying potions to your animal was not necessarily a wise move. ;-) I believe tea tree oil can be toxic if applied to broken skin - not that the latter had anything to do with the original question, but was something  I was just reminded of and thought was worth passing on. :-)

> Ultimately you are probably looking at allergy testing which costs in the region of £500 so hopefully your dog is insured.

TBF Ailsa the OP's dog is only recently causing concern and is already 15 months old so is not necessarily suffering from anything which can't be entirely cleared up and fairly rapidly at that - best not give the owner palpitations with worrying over possible huge costs ;)   It's easy to jump to conclusions when we have personal experience with a negative situation but the OPs vet is aware there is an underlying problem which I'm she s/he will help the owner identify.

Unfortunately some Westies do suffer from ongoing skin conditions, often allergy based, but these tend to be those less well bred.  Small and popular breeds of this type are the typical BYB/PFs bread and butter - hence why an otherwise healthy, robust and very endearing little breed such as this suffers the backlash in the veterinary professions eyes and those of the public too :(

Hopefully this little chap is reacting to either the initial flea bites (and/or treatment given to remedy them) or contact with a household product which can be identified and replaced with something more doggy friendly - and wont cost the owner, insured or not, an arm and a leg!

I hope your own dog is well now :)
regards, Teri

Just hit the next reply button munrogirl - it was a general musing rather than a direct response to you :)
regards, Teri

Personally I would stop changing the flea treatments just stick with one and if possible stop for a while as sometimes the flea treatments can cause problems.
In the mean time Quistel products are good at soothing and cooling the skin down here is the link: http://www.quistel.com/information/index.php?page=groom-dog If you get the spray when itch starts give a good spray.

Sometimes in can be the most simple/unexpected thing that causes problems so let's start at the beginning to see if we can help you just now :)

How long has he been scratching?
Have you made any changes in your house e.g. different soap powder, changed his diet etc?
Has the manufacture recently changed food ingredients?
Has he had an upset stomach, gastroenteritis, hemorrhagic gastroenteritis before the itching started? I ask this as sometimes allergies can start after this due to the stomach wall lining leaking proteins.

For Westie's simple ingredients (a food with fewer ingredients in) with out additives, colours or preservatives, soya, maize etc work best for them, a lot of westies also have problems with beef - what food do you feed?

You can go down the route of allergy testing for food, flea's and pollens etc, it is costly but sometimes it can be the quicker route to find out what maybe causing the problem. Some vets say they don't believe in allergy testing for animals others do.

I must say I am so surprised that your vet has not done skin tests or any other number of test before starting on these treatements...  Steroids do lower the immune system also surprised that your vet used them first, antibiotics can hide the symptoms lower the immune system then more often the problem returns, seems to be what has happened in your dog case.

You said you may seek a second opinion, If I was you I would find a vet that has an open mind and up-to-date in new science and technology, one that doesn't throw out antibiotics and steroids all the time.

Hi there, we've only changed the flea treatment once as he did seem to react badly after using front line. also my vet said that a lot of fleas are actually immune to front line because it has been on the market for so long! Seems weird that they keep recommending it though!!  Anyway in response to your other questions we've not changed his diet recently, we feed him Hills sensitive feed as when he was small he had a delicate tummy this was recommended by our vet, we also give him a wet food called Natures diet which we mix in. He has been on this for about 4 months.
He didn't suffer with an upset stomach before the itching started, not had any of the problems you suggested. the only thing i can think of as far as household products are concerned is that my husband has started washing the floors with disinfectant and i wonder whether this has irritated our pup.

I have vacuumed through out the house today and have flea treated the house too. We have wooden floors through out down stairs and I've given everywhere a thorough going over.

I'm not very happy with our vet at all, it does appear they just want to shove pills down his neck before doing any of the other tests, so we are still going to get that second opinion. I am glad we have him insured as it is costly but he is worth it, he's a lovely dog, i just hate to see him distressed!

Thanks for your input so far any advice is gladly received.

Karen

WestieTed Naturediet has recently changed the ingredients.
Hills sensitive could have changed ingredients sometimes the manufacture doesnt tell you.

The disinfectant can cause reactions, try not using it for a few weeks to see what happens :)

Just realised its not hills sensitive diet its actually royal canin, sensitive control sc24.

Karen

> Just realised its not hills sensitive diet its actually royal canin, sensitive control sc24.
>
> Karen

Have you ever fed just naturediet alone westieted I ask as naturediet is specialy made for sensitive tums.

Seeing a few Westies with bed skin, I would advise a complete raw diet, no kibble or cereals in the diet, get  abook on BARF, or speak to someone who feeds raw and natural, have a friend who feeds her terriers on raw, and what a difference to there coat, skin.

good luck!

Hi Everyone, just wanted to say thanks for all the advice so far, it is much appreciated! interestingly my hubby came home on Monday with a host of various herbal remedies for dogs coats. Garlic tablets, evening primrose and some cod liver oil based supplement to which we have given to our little fella over the last couple of days and he seems to have improved. he is still scratching a little but not as much, his coat already feels less greasy and he generally appears a bit happier. We also got rid of all his beds and bought him a couple of new ones. I've stopped giving him any treats which could also be contributing to the wheat thing that people are saying.

So we're trying lots of options and shall do to help the poor fella get sorted out. His skin isn't actually raw which is a good thing, just patchy and bald in places. If it continues then the raw food option is next!

thanks again

Karen

Hi,
I'm pleased to hear that he seems to be on the mend at last, but here's a couple tips to add to the list already posted that may or may not help. Some dogs are allergic to their plastic beds and that can cause skin problems. Also, try not to use air fresheners/re-freshers or any of that horrible talcom powder stuff that you sprinkle on the carpet and hoover up, that's lethal.
Here's hopeing that now you've decided less is more, when using chemicals, you've found the cure already.

Hi :)

My pup had the same thing recently and heres the thread I started which has loads of healpful advice

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/108757.html

Our boy has now been given an spray and some tabs and its healed litrally over night, I will find the names and maybe ask your vet if there any good, I had the same thing with our vet wanting to try loads before I stopped him and said one thing at a time!

Hope he feels better soon xx