2 people getting pups from the litter and having problems is more than just coincidence.if this person is part of the local breed club i would expect them to be the best example possible. Yes i am sceptical but i think you have got to be

Yes we all have to be careful when buying puppies Fredsmum but I think also on the internet or verbally you nor anyone has a right to hang someone out to dry on limited information which really do not decide on the quality of the breeder and you did say a few things that did merit the breeder being labelled a bad breeder in yours eyes but not really valid reasons unless backed up with a load of other things for example;

Would a responsible breeder not start "interviewing" potential new owners before the pups were of leaving age?      Not always

but combined with the fact there were no papers (?!) it doesnt sound like an ideal situation nor an ideal breeder. Turns out suspicions were right as pup was later found to have ear mites and papers have not been forwarded on.

You said your suspicions were right because of ear mites and no papers " As yet".

I think the pups were not even from the same breeder nor same litter, they are two different litters and two different breeders.    3 weeks could have passed yes since collection but the person may have just went on holiday and only returned in the last 5-7 days hence the litter registered recently. The buyer knew the breeder was on holiday and that the papers were to follow.    Perhaps the buyer talked the breeder's freind into letting the pup go before the breeder returned. The bottom line is we don't know.

Yes it may well be a rotten egg of a breeder and for me it is certainly not an ideal transaction BUT BASED on the thread so far there is not enough to substantiate a title of a bad breeder in my opinion certainly not as this person seems to be the secretary of one of the breed clubs.

Sorry to pick at your post but sometimes I just don't like seeing assumptions over so little.

i didnt think that health tests had to show on kc reg papers? and as far as ear mites go- my first litter had them which i didnt discover untill they had 8 week vet check- i couldnt see a thing in their ears and parent dogs clear so couldnt tell

Blue: I think as this forum is read by first time dog buyers and people new to the doggy world it is important to point these things out. I learnt the hard way about bad breeders and i think it needs to be made clear what is protocol and what is not acceptable so people dont end up buying pups from the wrong hands. I have at no point said this person is a bad breeder, i just dont think theyve gone about things in the right way. as we have mentioned no names i am not harming anyone by airing my thoughts.

> Would a responsible breeder not start "interviewing" potential new owners before the pups were of leaving age?      Not always

Barring an extremely small litter (eg of one!) or severe debilitating illness on the part of the breeder etc could you elaborate further? In normal circumstances, in breeds such as mine where litter size tends to be 9+, would a responsible breeder not start interviewing potential owners before the pups were of leaving age?

To munrogirl76

>> Would a responsible breeder not start "interviewing" potential new owners before the pups were of leaving age?      Not always
> Barring an extremely small litter (eg of one!) or severe debilitating illness on the part of the breeder etc could you elaborate further? In normal circumstances, in breeds such as mine where litter size tends to be 9+, would a responsible breeder not start interviewing potential owners before the pups were of leaving age?

I think as Brainless has already said there are instances where you might have a high number of one sex in litter.  In a litter of 10 for example perhaps if 8 of them were boys the breeder may find some of their potential owners waiting for the next litter or going elsewhere.  Also if one of their potential puppy owners were to drop out (I think elsewhere on CD some breeders have reported people pulling out due to lack of finances or concern about job security).  In these instances you might find breeders operating on a different timescale to normal.

If a breed typically has long waiting lists a breeder might conceivably have names of interested people but not yet met them - particularly if they are expecting to wait a year or more or if the breeder is unsure about plans for the next litter.  However, if a breeder found themselves with a suddenly available puppy, they may ask to see if anyone is interested sooner?

Ideally in these circumstances efforts would be made to meet people before the pups were ready to leave but that might not always be possible, particularly when pups are ready during holiday times - prospective new owners, however pleased to be moved forward on the puppy list, may already have holiday plans.  Also if there is a question of determining quality for show owners there may be a longer wait and again, a suddenly available puppy.

All conjecture of course as I'm not a breeder but these circumstances are not unusual I'd imagine  :)

Yes dogs a babe - but if you have a waiting list then you have done some 'interviewing' haven't you? I didn't mean face to face - I meant having had an interest in the pups produced from the litter and had contact and discussion with the potential owners to determine their suitability. ;-)

My breed is numerically small, and when I get together my actual waiting list, rather than a list of people interested (once pregnancy confirmed) I don't like to take firm bookings for more than 3 of each sex to save disappointment for the potential owners.  The rest I would pass onto other breeders compiling a list.

So when pups born and there are more than 3 of each sex or an imbalance there will b e pups not allocated . 

In a breed like mine potential new owners don't come along to order, so occasionally there are older pups available, and at other times people have to wait as there are no pups.

In my present litter I had four bitches and the person Lucky enough to get the fourth bitch had lost out on a pup in two litters due to insufficient bitches and very nearly bought a GSD pup of 6 months even though they had owned the breed before, there is only so long someone will wait.

On the other hand I had all males booked, and someone got a pup from another breeder that became available.  Often a show  breeder will run one on and decide to sell, or conversely keep the most promising pup back hoping someone will show it (done that more than once).

There are about 15 to 20 litters a year so feast or famine is usual.

I am confused, if the owners still don't have papers how do we know that the health tests are not shown? Guess I must have missed something somewhere.