The National Dog Warden Association has joined the boycott of Crufts.
It is pleasing that major dog organisations are piling on the pressure for the UK KC to follow in the good footsteps their Scandinavian cousins in becoming a socially acceptable organisation that is concerned with canine welfare.

Lets hope more follow suit.

> Lets hope more follow suit

I certainly hope not - I'd rather these organisations supported the KC while stressing in the strongest possible terms that giant leaps must be taken by them (KC) to ensure only healthy animals are bred from and only progeny of those animals are registered. 

By abandoning and/or standing against the KC all they serve to do is bring closer the possibility of government intervention and look what a mess they make of running the country without dipping their toes in the waters of breeding dogs - remember the DDA?  Made a shambles of that didn't they!

I personally disagree with boycotting Crufts. Where else can you target  such a large number of the general public with an interest in dogs. I think that the organisations who are now pulling out would be far better staying in attendance and pushing education and endorsing the good practice of health testing in all breeds. By pulling out they are tarring all breeders with the same brush and are doing responsible dog ownership no favours at all.

IMHO they should all be promoting buying a dog from a reputable source that only breeds from health tested parents of good temperament. Boycotting would appear to be saying to everyone "forget pedigree dogs buying a pup from an accidental mating, or a couldn't-be-bothered-to-prevent-it mating, a puppy farm or a BYB is the way to go". Now how can that be viewed as a responsible caring attitude.

I think the boycotting is rediculous!  These "charitable organisations" are going to cause the downfall of the KC if they don't start supporting them!  Education NOT legislation!  The charities should be involved to educate people where to buy "safe" puppies from and what health checks should be done.

> By abandoning and/or standing against the KC all they serve to do is bring closer the possibility of government intervention

This does not just apply to organisations ;-)  There are many people who feel like Krusewalker and, after all, these organisations are also saying they will come back when everything is just how they like it.  It may be too late by the time everyone feels it is just so.

I can see Crufts completely falling on its a**e. People have been on about it for years and its always had controversy surrounding it and the ethics. Now organisations are starting to do something about it and voting with their feet.

> I can see Crufts completely falling on its a**e

I don't.  It's a dog show that breeder aspire to qualify to.  I'm sure it will continue as all Championship shows will.  Maybe it will downsize but then maybe not they seem to have no lack of commerical enterprises taking up the space left by these organisation.  It is the control of the KC over breeding matters that I fear for.

>These "charitable organisations" are going to cause the downfall of the KC if they don't start supporting them!

I rather think that's the whole point :(  However misguided the organisations responsible :( 

have a look here if you doubt that this is what others wish to happen

http://www.petparliament.com/viewarticle.php?sid=135&aid=89

IMHO if the KC don't get off their backsides and do something radical and fast they could well be history and we'll be left with the likes of DEFRA and the RSPCA to govern us - and what a shambles that would be!

> IMHO if the KC don't get off their backsides and do something radical and fast

I don't want radical and fast.  I want the measured steps they have been taking over the last couple of years.  If we don't support them I don't think it would be at all fair to turn round and pile all the blame on them.

> IMHO they should all be promoting buying a dog from a reputable source that only breeds from health tested parents of good temperament. Boycotting would appear to be saying to everyone "forget pedigree dogs buying a pup from an accidental mating, or a couldn't-be-bothered-to-prevent-it mating, a puppy farm or a BYB is the way to go". Now how can that be viewed as a responsible caring attitude.

Exactly how I feel Harley. I'm appalled frankly, as the tunnel vision these organizations are operating with. I've been taken aback by some of the venomous comments I've seen on forums about "breeders, those horrible people, what I'd like to do to them...". Hmm, so where do dogs come from them. Do people who feel this way think the domestic dog should go extinct? If not we're left with those you mentioned - the accidents, puppy farmers etc. And now, thanks to these organizations, the new designer puppy farmers that breed crosses and give them cuddly names so they can charge outrageous prices have been handed a free marketing tool. So which is better for the dog's welfare - coming from a breeder that health tests, looks closely at the genetics behind a mating to avoid health and temperament issues, carefully raises a litter during such a crucial development stage, supports owners and takes any unwanted dog back. Or, someone who has bred their dog willy-nilly to whatever happens to be up the road, has no idea how to raise a litter, vetting means finding someone with an open wallet and once the dog is gone they wash their hands of it. Honestly, I do despair at the blind ignorance and stupidity of human masses at times.

Sorry Isabel, I think the time for measured steps is long past, it's time they stepped things up a gear, they have to be conspicuously seen to be making progress which they clearly haven't been up to now :(  There is room for this without losing the plot. 

I'm talking "radical and fast" in comparison with the KC's current speed of doing things LOL not yours or my version of radical and fast ;)

However, it must be remembered by all agencies concerned and the BBC and RSPCA in particular, that DNA tests for some inherited problems can take many years to perfect to the stage where they are reliable and useful to breeders and any half-baked reaction to pressure could result in more problems rather than fewer ;)  

ETA - Well said Lori :-)

> have a look here if you doubt that this is what others wish to happen
>
> [url=http://www.petparliament.com/viewarticle.php?sid=135&aid=89" rel=nofollow]http://www.petparliament.com/viewarticle.php?sid=135&aid=89[/url]
>
>

well that guys a total moron isn't he?

has he even perhaps opened a book or a web page about health testing? about genetic studies? he genuinely needs to sit in a corner and feel ashamed of himself.

sickened at the writing of morons in the world.

So am I but it's out there on the web and there's no telling how many people have copied and sent the letter he supplied :( :(

There's only one thig worse than ignorance and that's vociferous, blind ignorance :( :( :(

I'm sure they are stepping up a gear.  They certainly seem to be getting more on the backs of the Breed Clubs to push them in their role but I think we all need to step up a gear in supporting them too.

> there's no telling how many people have copied and sent the letter he supplied

True, but we can write our own letters of complaint to the BBC - he did after all provide the LINK and I sugest we get writing :)

>I can see Crufts completely falling on its a**e.

I don't. I can see it reverting back to a 'proper' dog show, with dogs as the main event, rather than the media and marketing circus it's become. This could be a blessing!

>"In my view, Crufts is not a positive portrayal of dogs in the media."

Gosh yes, I can see how people might come to that conclusion. Thousands of dogs mingling with dogs and people with barely a cross word, buckletloads of agility, obedience, HTM, flyball ... lots of children being encouraged to work with dogs ... showcasing of Pets As Therapy ... the "Friends for Life" competition which had even hard-hearted me sniffling.

I can entirely see how the odd glimpse of a dog with less than ideal conformation could over-shadow all that. Gah.

M.

> They certainly seem to be getting more on the backs of the Breed Clubs to push them in their role

The role of the Breed Clubs is limited - many have a code of best practice rather than a code of ethics, many make "recommendations" re testing and husbandry but don't make these rules.  Many members of their committees do not abide by their "recommendations"; some members of some breed clubs are pretty green about the gills in dogdom having inherited their position on committees more or less by default because long standing followers of the breed don't have the inclination, time, energy or whatever other excuses to be involved in club business :(

Beyond that not all respected breeders are members of their own breed club(s) for a variety of reasons - often political ones.

We, breeders and breed clubs, pay our monies to the KC; we have to follow their rules; we dance to their tune and jump their hurdles - in return they have to take responsibility for things going wrong.  They have evidence of when, who, where and what at their fingertips - they only need use it :)

>> I can see Crufts completely falling on its a**e.

> I don't. I can see it reverting back to a 'proper' dog show, with dogs as the main event, rather than the media and marketing circus it's become. This could be a blessing!

JG for Prime Minister ... ;-)

M.

> I can see Crufts completely falling on its a**e.

Thankfully no chance of that Freds Mum :)  The exhibitors will be delighted if the public gate falls - our dogs will have more freedom of movement and more freedom to arrive later and leave earlier.  They wont be hassled on their benches by constant trails of JP and 'weans' wanting to disturb their sleep/relaxation.  We, the exhibitors, might even get the opportunity to sit ringside and enjoy the judging whereas up until now it's been no mean feat to get anywhere near the rings except when squeazing through crowds to get into our entered class.

If that's the worst outcome to befall Crufts then personally I'm all for it :)  I rarely go, despite all my dogs being life qualified, and on the odd occasion I do go I've more times than not gone without dogs.  Less crowds of spectators means better conditions for my dogs and that would cause me to rethink my view on entering my own :)

well i am not pulling out of crufts, love it or hate it people still go every year, many do not go to shop or to the stalls etc, they go to watch their breeds being shown,
if they do not want to associate them selves with crufts, and want to pull out it is up to them, but honestly how many people will realise they are not there, there is so much going on and so much to watch and do, will they honestly be missed,
and if they wanted to put their points of view over you would think that they would go to crufts and have their say, but now how many people will read what the rspca etc say in newspapers or mags etc, not as many people as they would of been able to give information out to if they had set up their stall at crufts,

if anybody thinks that because two orginizations have pulled out of crufts this will stop people going so be it, more room for us to move our dogs around, move easy between stalls to move and shop,

but it will not make any difference to crufts at all, there are plenty of other stalls can fill there spaces.

carolann

"Dear Sir/Madam

I have felt the need to write to since the release of the program "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" as produced by Passionate Productions. I must say that I was stunned and shocked that the BBC, an organisation who's programming I have had enormous admiration and respect for until now, would resort to such tabaloid and hypocrytical journalism simply to acquire viewing figures.

This program was biased and over dramatised against the the world of dog breeding and showing, something I am certain you are aware of since your channel covers the greatest of all dog shows, Crufts (though I understand this may not be the case for much longer). Given your coverage of Crufts I am certain that your channel is more than aware of the increadibly effort made by thousands of dedicated breeders and exhibiters to give their dogs a high quality of life, one need only look at last years Best in Show, indeed every dog in the final line up, to see the health and vitality these dogs have. You meet these people and their stunning animals each year- if there is so large a problem it has taken you a while to notice.

To so cavalierly allow a trumped up charge of general ill health to be displayed in such a way to the public is tantamount to slander. It undermines the work of breeders across the world who spend a fortune in time and money health testing their breeding stock to ensure the next generation of our beloved animals are as healthy as nature will allow.

May I also say that the suggestion that the dedicated, loving and hard working breeders I know are comparable to Nazi's is appaling and deeply offensive.

While I and those that I know within the world of breeding and exhibiting do agree that more work needs to be done by the KC to ensure that each and every dog assigned their mark is as healthy as possible, it is wrong to suggest that dog breeding produces "mutants and freaks". Any such breed that in the past has had a feature that has been so exaggerated it has damaged the animals health have seen changes to their breed standard to resolve this problem. Obviously when we are discussing the progress of any living animal this takes time to filter through the generations. It is also worth mentioning that of the over 200 different breeds available such problems are found in a rare few.

Your allowing this program to come to air on your channel has offended and hurt many of your loyal viewers, and in such a way that they will be distressed by your attitude long after the general public forget this program. You have also weakend the world of health tested, quality, happy and socialised dogs in favour if ill considered and unpredictable puppy farmed dogs- many of whome will suffer far greater ills than those this show displayed.

I do so hope that you found the one nights elevated viewing good compensation for the probable loss of the lucrative Crufts contract, the now absent support of a massive number of your viewers and the terrible lives of many poor animals that will now suffer at the hands of puppy farmers.

Well done BBC

Yours, ..."

Any suggestions to improve it?

As I understand it the KC are wishing to speed up the Breed Clubs is deciding just what health screening is appropriate so they may tighten down the requirements of the ABS, Teri.  I don't think they are particularly focusing on how the Breed Club police their own.

>we have to follow their rules; we dance to their tune and jump their hurdles

I think we have to do more than that now, we have to support their efforts. 

> I think we have to do more than that now, we have to support their efforts

They have to get rid of the puppy farmers on the ABS first Isabel

> I think we have to do more than that now, we have to support their efforts

when their efforts are seen to be made, i.e. puting things into action (as yet they're just talking about them) I don't doubt for a second they will get support.  As it stands the ABS is a shambles and they need to have something in place which genuinely identifies responsible breeders instead of offering a service which directly promotes many undesirables.

The KC ought to listen to it's non-voting, grass roots support rather than protect the old school tie brigade and embrace PFs and BYBs :(

> They have to get rid of the puppy farmers on the ABS first Isabel
>
>> I think we have to do more than that now, we have to support their efforts
> when their efforts are seen to be made, i.e. puting things into action (as yet they're just talking about them) I don't doubt for a second they will get support.  As it stands the ABS is a shambles and they need to have something in place which genuinely identifies responsible breeders instead of offering a service which directly promotes many undesirables.
>

bravo!

I may sound a bit thick here.........what does BYB stand for?

You do make some excellent posts Teri.

With the organisations dropping out of crufts next it will be the sponsorship deals too. Wihtout that and the revenue it supplies things will take a dive, especially financially. I dont think this is the last weve heard of people dropping out, many more wil jump on the bandwagon

Back Yard Breeder :)

BYB...back yard breeder. Expression started many moons ago (according to a book I read) in the back yards of the Welsh miners, breeding dogs to try and supliment their pittance of earnings. Its meaning has blured somewhat over the years.

> With the organisations dropping out of crufts next it will be the sponsorship deals too.

no it won't Pedigree have written to the KC in support, its on the website.

> With the organisations dropping out of crufts next it will be the sponsorship deals too

Sponsorship as in :-

(a) Pedigree - they've put in print they will continue to support Crufts (despite dropping the rest of the show world like a hot potato, of course no cameras and advertising opportunities there LOL)

(b) A TV manufacturer for the plasma screens - plenty more of them out there :)

Crufts is only successful and indeed only EXISTS because of pedigree breeders and their pedigree stock - the KC need to look after them or they will have serious cash flow across the board, not just at a one off show :)

> I may sound a bit thick here.........what does BYB stand for?

http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/byb.htm

I stand corrected. Do think things may get worse before they get better. Theres always negative contraversy surrounding crufts. This will just add fuel to the fire

Do the KC engage in or have any plans to engage in any constructive discussion with pedigree dog people or breed clubs in order to hear our views and involve us on how things can be taken forward?

> Do think things may get worse before they get better

It's hard to imagine they could get much worse but I fully expect they shall :( 

Hi Mini,

the KC engage in constructive discussions regularly - whether or not they put sufficient emphasis on views obtained and action plans discussed is a matter of opinion (in part) and it seems open to debate .....

you have that right
the ABS is the first place they should start
anyone can join it, i have heard even people who have never bred a litter
how can that be a recommended breeder
some people on it in both my breeds i would not buy a stuffed toy from, never mind a puppy

>> It's hard to imagine they could get much worse but I fully expect they shall :-( 

we shall overcome. there is always controversy from those who see it as an elitist hobby, look at the dangerous dogs business in the 80's and 90's. we'll get through it.

How can we be involved?  It may fall on deaf ears, but we are their bread and butter so to speak!

> You do make some excellent posts

thank you calmstorm :)

Hello all, I think that some of the big companies/charities/organisations dropping out will not affect Crufts.  If any of you are as old as I am and remember when it was down in london then you will know how far removed the modern crufts is from the true show it started out as.

Think how many other champ shows are out there that dont have all the glam of crufts but they still mean CC's and enjoyment.

I have hated some of the big garish stands they have now and the fact that you cant step more than a couple of steps without being stuck behind a load of people.  Maybe this year especially as I am on a thursday this time that I will be able to walk freely.  And actually enjoy it, which I can safely say I did not last year.

Emma

All I can see this action doing is turning more people into BYB's as let's face it a lot of the GP who don't know anything about health testing etc. go there anyway.

I think these organisations may find that they fall flat on their face when they end up with more rescue dogs and they won't be able to cope with the pressures.  Let's hope this doesn't happen!

It will be wonderful being at Crufts without people standing on your dogs and looking at them in disgust as though they shouldn't even be there!

> these organisations may find that they fall flat on their face when they end up with more rescue dogs

On the flipside of that, playing DA here, perhaps they feel they will manage to home significantly more dogs from their centres if the public is now very suspicious of pedigree breeders ...... just a thought

I think it would be just as well if Crufts got a bit smaller - more emphasis on the dog show and less on the ridiculous number of trade stands.

I'd also be very relieved to find that Crufts had become a dog show again instead of the circus it usually is :)  to me it's about the dogs, not the shopping!

What we do not know is the conversations these organisations have had previously with the KC before taking the stance they have. It could be that after having much talks with the KC that the KC where not wishing to implement requests faster or refused or in denial. We are not privy to these talks so I will wait to see what comes out in the media before commenting to much on this.

The problem with the KC just now that I see is with all the denial and complaints they are making along with them promoting the Accredited Breeder Scheme they could get them in hot water again. It takes for one news organisations film company to research into the Accredited Breeder Scheme, and we all know that some in the ACB are undesirables be they BYB, puppy farmers etc hiding behind the ABS. The KC are digging there own hole in my opinion if they don't be careful they will do themselfs more damage than good

I do think the KC needs pushing to make change as the health of the animals should be their first concerns  jointly with getting rid off puppy farmers/BYB off their books the sooner the better, if it takes organisations along with sponsors walking away from the KC I am all for it.

The KC, breed clubs and good breeders all have a good opportunity here to make change now if they all come together and agree and enforce change now. If they did they would have no problems with the public, animal organisations, sponsors and media. The KC would then be the badge of Health, quality, guarantee a respected organisation.

> a dog show again instead of the circus it usually is :-)  to me it's about the dogs, not the shopping!

In my opinion Crufts should be about Healthy happy dogs having a good time :)

>> a dog show again instead of the circus it usually is :-)  to me it's about the dogs, not the shopping!
> In my opinion Crufts should be about Healthy happy dogs having a good time :-)

it was my first visit to crufts this year and i went simply to observe but my god was it packed! now my simply going to watch, and yes do some shopping- there were some good things available, might annoy some of you :) but then i planned the trip for months, did a ton of overtime to save up for it, planned when i wanted to be in certain ring areas etc...in essence i went as a dogless enthusiast. despite 'my' group (working) and my partners favorite group (pastoral) being on the satuarday it was the day i enjoyed least- packed with people who clearly were just bored and turned up and yes, were actually getting uppity at the dogs! i couldn't believe that, i made a point of making way for dogs and their owners as its their day, i was just lucky to get to watch them! it was so different from other shows, so mobbed and uncomfortably claustrophobic :( if that reduced then yay!

> In my opinion Crufts should be about Healthy happy dogs having a good time

That is what Crufts is about katt - admittedly a (very) few breeds represent this to a lesser degree than others but they are thankfully in a minority and hopefully already getting their house in order :) 

Dogs which are either unhealthy or unhappy do not make successful show dogs and all successful show dogs come from the same litters as pet ones do.  The pedigree dog world, as represented at shows nationwide in addition to Crufts, is full to bursting with well raised, health tested, intensely socialised and physically fit and active dogs with outstanding characters - the majority of which are owned by folks like me and live 365 days a year as family pets, running on beaches, fields, forests and curling up to share the sofa with us :)

regards, Teri