i have 2 main concerns (over the obvious ones here!)
1) the vet didnt know about the jab??? Have i rea that correctly??? I would be changing vets!!!!
2) if you work and are out during the day how are you going to rear a litter???

The breed has already been removed from the original post :)

site wont let me put up breed of dog but have photo up now,was picture of robbin taken yesterday so you will be able to tell from that father was of the same breed

have that sorted my dad is doing part of our garden up so here every day keeping an eye on robbin to,my partner and i work diff shifts so one of us is always here apart from 1 hour when my dad is here anyway i would be afraid to leave her alone incase she went earlyer than expected and for her litter,and have started setting alarm for 3in morning to check on her in case we wouldnt here her so were fairly organised that way i think but if you have any other sugestions or think i forgot something would be happy to hear, and it was us that didnt no of injecton not vet sorry if i said that wrong only found out about it with 2 weeks to go

Hi,   yeah just been told by the powers that be...:)
Really it is of no concern what they breed are.. only me mentioning to let you know that any dog or bitch that want/need  desperately to mate- will somehow find someone ready to mate with!¬ hence my Tinkerbell coming into the world ! Hope it all goes well for you and remember to not to find homes until the puppies are 8 weeks old, even though they might seem ready to go at 6 or 7 weeks as a lot of people do. Start collecting as many old newspapers as you can now- your going to need them. Make sure mum is kept in a very safe/ quiet corner away from noise and everyone in your bedroom preferablly to have her litter. 
all the best.

Hello Niamh

if you have an approximate date for your girl being full term, i.e. in a planned mating this would be 63 days post mating, then work around that allowing 2/3 days either side :)  Don't leave her unattended at any point during this period - even for toilet breaks in the garden - as she may go off and have a pup (or more) of which you'd be unaware.

In the mean time decide where you are best able to give round the clock care to your bitch and any pups during whelping and for a minimum of two weeks after the birth - probably your bedroom or maybe move into a spare bedroom if that is more practical.  If you buy or build a whelping box (disposable ones are available on-line) then try and get your girl used to being in there or at least its presence for about a week before she's due so that she has the minimum of stress when the time comes.

Others have pointed you in the direction of sourcing essential supplies pre-whelping and getting the Book of the Bitch :)

regards, Teri

Isabel - i dont see why you are confused.
"The laws, and indeed ethics, covering the unborn human child is very different to those of animals.  We euthanase adult animals all the time if it is to prevent suffering and find nothing unethical about it I don't se why it would be ethically different to euthanase the unborn"..............my response was it depends how far gone they were - the same as in humans. It is more humane to do this when pups or baby are in the early stages of pregnancy. If it a week before the due date it would be more stressful and more to deal with whether it be an animal or human pregnany

I would imagine it will be stressful at any stage but the bitch will quickly get over it as they do if they lose a litter and the owner will have the, perhaps greater, stress of the puppies future removed together with all the stresses of rearing a litter for owner and young dam.  In a situation like this you are looking for the lesser of two evils.  The different stages of development may affect the practicalities but I still don't see where the ethics change.

Can we all try and keep on topic here please :)

IF you have helpful advise for the OP then please offer it. This is not the place to get into the ethics of euthanasia

I know you have not directed your post to me but I don't think it is off topic is people what to question my suggestion, Mel.  As it is, I think it is a helpful suggestion so I don't mind justifying it at all if it helps the OP decide if it is appropriate for them.

It was at everyone participating in the thread ..please stay on topic :)

hi Teri will have holidays at time of birth finish up friday for 2weeks:-] so i can be here for her we have got a whelping box from our local pet store ,we gave our vet the dates last friday that she went into heat and told us to be ready in the next ten days so has been all systems go since then so that brings us to next tuesday at the earlyist or next friday at latest were also going to bring her for another check up friday just to to keep an eye on her rather be safe than sorry as iam learning quickly from my past mistakes or should i say ignorance we only bought our house last december so she has a very comfortable box room next to oursto sleep in all to her self we havent even put furniture in it yet so she has plenty of room and its cosey for her and she sleeps in the whelping box now the last two nights  i have been leaveing water with her and she is be'n well fed but should i leave food with her?  iam afraid to over feed her as she gets fed first thing in the morning anyway

> I would imagine it will be stressful at any stage but the bitch will quickly get over it as they do if they lose a litter and the owner will have the, perhaps greater, stress of the puppies future removed together with all the stresses of rearing a litter for owner and young dam.  In a situation like this you are looking for the lesser of two evils.  The different stages of development may affect the practicalities but I still don't see where the ethics change.

I don't see that it is any of the above. I took on a rescue bitch (approx 9 months old) that proved to be pregnant. Having never bred a bitch I was completely ignorant of canine pregnancy at that time. When I realised that the bitch was 'swelling under her belly' and asking for extra food I took her to the vet who said that she was approx 7 weeks pregnant and it was too late to terminate the pregnancy at that stage as it was not safe for the bitch. Far better to let her have the puppies and then spay her 3 months later which is what I did. She had 12 puppies, all survived. She was too young to look after them but managed to nurse for 14 days when she did reject them but I was able to take over at that point with round the clock feeding for another week or so, but we did get by.

When the owner saw the vet they did offer to abort the pups but my friend would not have that done, as she did not know the father or fathers to these puppies (qouted from magica)

I think that is a rediculous comment, surely that would be even more of a reason to have the injection? and not only that the bitch was still a puppy.....so if given the chance to have the injection it should never have been refused!

> She was too young to look after them but managed to nurse for 14 days when she did reject them

I think that demonstrates it can be too difficult for a young dam. 

you should feed her little and often, you want to keep her eating for as long as possible if she turns a little fussy keep trying different things!...

thanks Em have been feeding her 3 times  2 times mother and puppy food and one time a day scrambled eggs to the point i dont think ill ever eat it again iam tired looking at it but she cant get enough...

hi niamh she may soon need 4/5 meals a day as she will be to big to eat much ....i know what u say about eggs lol ;)

> i dont think ill ever eat it again iam tired looking at it but she cant get enough...

thats good though, a lot of bitches go right off their food (i suppose its like a lot of heavily pregnant women i have known- just can't fit any more in lol) and its a nightmare for their owners trying to feed them.

your doing well, you've just got a limited time to do the studying in before it all kicks off given the circs. its a nightmare situation but for the inexperienced it can happen pretty easily- i don't think many peole realise just how determined a dog can be to get to a bitch :)

best of luck with everything and keep us posted :)

In reply to EM.....  She was offered to abort the unborn litter due to not knowing the sire of the pups, the vet explained the dangers of big pups getting stuck in the birth canal etc also it was a RSPCA vet. Maybe I wrote it out wrong... I'm sorry for confusing you. My friend decided to let her carry on with the pregnancy, I did mention the cost if C section was needed and stress to young Tia but she was against abortion so let her go through it. Tia did fantastic very surprised.Sadly she kept 2 of the litter and the mother and could not cope so I ended up with the daughter Tinkerbell.

thank you for your kind reply

no problem, i'm sure you'll get there, your obviously keen to learn how to make the best of the situation now its happening. trying to think of things you'll need...heat pad? masses of newspaper, scales (to keep check on their weights), clean towels or cloths if you need to help get them going incase mum is a bit confused (also for following her about with when she goes to poo- to catch any surprise pups in), we had a sooky device thingy (good description lol) to clear out their lungs if they had fluid in them (only used on one thankfully and he was fine after), vet on speed dial just in case, coffee, wormer for when they need it done (make sure mums done to),  make up charts to track their weight on as they grow, perhaps think of some way of telling them appart initially as there will probably be a couple who are very similar to start with...er... sure others will come up with other things.

have stacks of news papers have a special lamp to keep pups warm have towels and vet on my speed dial but never thought about weight but makes sence when you say it to make sure there growing properly and been fed enough?thank you for that:-]iam guess'n the coffee is 4 me and not my dog ;-)....

> never thought about weight but makes sence when you say it to make sure there growing properly and been fed enough?

yep, we weighed them everyday to see how much they were growing. you'll need some kind of bowl to put them in as they get wiggly pretty quickly lol

coffee definately for you. don't leave them alone with mum as she may accidentally roll on them or might get stressed and do something worse because of it. work out a schedule with the people who can help you- makes it easier for everyone to know what they are doing when- would be another suggestion. you'll eventually need a flat bowl or tray type thing to feed them when they are getting on to solids. vet beds good for in the whelping box as its easy to wash and dry- extra washing powder, skanky clothes for you as tis a messy process :)

might i suggest putting the whelping box near a computer if there is a quiet place so you can get on the forum if your needing advice and not leave the babas?

glucose to put in the bitches water if shes in labour for a while (essentially doggy lucozade)

syringes for giving whelpi if you need to (hopefully not but can need to suppliment for various reasons, such as big litter and not getting enough off of mum)

one thing i'd suggest, depending on how many pups are born and how many nipples mum has, you might want to put them on in turns so they all get a good feed- put the others under the lamp to keep cozy.

lol, if anything else comes to mind...

one more thing make sure you get some sleep now cus if it goes anything like mine you not get much when they arrive ;) tonight is my 1st night of going to bed and not getting up!! lol , :) :)

might i suggest putting the whelping box near a computer if there is a quiet place so you can get on the forum if your needing advice and not leave the babas?


And near a bed! I whelped a bitch yesterday and am still shattered. Started 5 am, finished about 7 pm -I was SO glad I had the sofa bed.

Hi niamh

that's good news about the holidays etc :)

> she has a very comfortable box room next to oursto sleep in all to her self we havent even put furniture in it yet so she has plenty of room and its cosey for her and she sleeps in the whelping box now the last two nights

You may be unaware that you'll need to be in the same room as her for several nights before and also a few weeks after the birth so best get a matress in that box room ;)  She shouldn't be left unattended at all during the days immediately prior to birth as she may go into labour when you're not there and if problems arise you may be too late to assist her.  She'll need you to hand to assist with the births, cleaning up and keeping pups warm while others are being born.  Then you'll have to watch her like a hawk that she shows maternal instinct - she's very young and so mentally as well as physically immature and mothering may not come naturally or easily to her :)  You also have to ensure that she doesn't crush any pups so basically a litter is a 24 hour a day job for a loooooong time!  After the pups' eyes ar eopen and they are reasonably mobile then a baby alarm is handy to keep one beside their box and play pen and other clipped to your belt so that when you have a little time off from playing super nanny you're still 'on call' :)

Feed her little and often - swelling tums with growing whelps don't have much room for food so she may appear disinterested when in fact she's just too full to eat a normal portion and may be having on/off bouts of nausea also.

HTH, Teri

Oooooh, mini hijack Marianne, how many?  Boys?  Girls?  Matchsticks to hold your eyes open?

Go on, SPILL - AND NOT FORGETTING huge congratulations :) :) :)

> And near a bed! I whelped a bitch yesterday and am still shattered. Started 5 am, finished about 7 pm -I was SO glad I had the sofa bed.

ohh, hope everything went well marianne :)

I'll add a thread. :)

> After the pups' eyes ar eopen and they are reasonably mobile then a baby alarm is handy to keep one beside their box and play pen and other clipped to your belt so that when you have a little time off from playing super nanny you're still 'on call' :-)
>

lol if you can drag yourself away... this was supposed to be the plan with the litter i helped with but none of us could bare to leave the little uns' for long- far to lovely :)

hello Marianne on the puppys hope mum and pups are all well .x. Might sound like a silly question but were you awake when she started if not how did you no did she  make noise iam asking because iam setting the alarm every hour and a half to check on mine cause iam afraid i wont hear her ,and do all dogs go off their food before hand or just some??took robbin to vets yesterday thay had no complaints says she possably has another 4 to five days

Hiya my girl whelped early thursday morning, in the days leading up to it my girl went very quiet, slept alot and was off her food, me and my OH took it in turns sleeping, one would sit with her while the other had some sleep then swopped over, first pup was born at 2am and the last came at 5.35am so was pretty quick, im now living in my bedroom with them for the next few weeks just to keep a eye on mum and babies.

Hope all goes well with your girl xx

hi niamh ,if you start taking her temp from 10 days she as left up to her whelping , her temp will drop 24 /12 hours before she will have them ,to start with just once a day then the last week morning and night leave it about 12 hours inbetween ,then when her temp starts to go up and down do it 3 times aday ,then when it drops to aroud 36 .6 keep a eye on her alot because she could start to have them with in 24 hours ,even when she goes out side for poo and wees she could have them out there ,she may think she need to poo but pup could be coming out ! x

thanks for your reply now ok so how do i go about doing that i have an idea but iam asking cause iam not sure where could i buy one and could i hurt her by doing that

hello Marianne on the puppys hope mum and pups are all well .x. Might sound like a silly question but were you awake when she started if not how did you no did she  make noise

We kept checking on her during the nights from day 58 onwards. Also I went to bed late, and my husband got up early for work, so that way each of us could have some extra sleep. :)

I've never managed to get the temperature thing to work for me. 12 hours before my girl started I took her temp and it was 37.2 so not particularly low under the circumstances, yet she still started. She was also still eating up to the night before, less than usual, but that was due to the pups taking up all the space in the stomach.

hello and thank you for your reply i should really be doing that already then thanks for advice ill be getting excited and worried evey time she has to use the loo now ...i didnt no that could really happen i have another question robbin is about the same size of a standered cat slightly larger but she had an accedent in the house the other night and if you had seen it you would think some one had spilt 2 or maby 3 pint glass's of water on the floor it was clear i dont meen to sound vulger but is normal for such a small dog even if she is in pup ,and one more question is it safe to bath her as such a late stage in pregnancy

well she was only really eating half meals yesterday i have also been going to bed late and up early i dont really want to be disturbing my partner as he suffers from epilespy and the fits only accor if he dosent that his meds or a disturbed sleep so i dont pirticurly want to be wakeing him so hes goin to work at 6am so gets up around 5am to check on her i havent tryed takeing her tem yet but am goin to equip my self today to do that

how many days is she now? get a digital 1 much easyer ,only need to put it in about 1inch ,can put a little butter at the end so it goes in easyer :) lol poor thing  my girl didnt like much but she let me do it , it dont hurt them !! and it does work for most dogs but not all ,its just an indication that things are happening x

depanding how many days she is for her to have a bath !! just for is a no and after is a no untill she stops feeding pups her milk ducks can block and can stop her feeding them plus it will make her ill then !!! x

My friends 9 month old ESS bitch was got at by her dog, she had 6 beautiful puppies and was a great mum.
I was told, if you have a male and female and the female comes into season, if you can, have the male kept elsewhere because its like leading a bear to honey if you keep them together in the same house. Basically its torture for the male dog, they will jump 2m fences to get at a female.  :-)

hi sorry iam only replying now screen on my laptop went only got it back today she is due any time now but thats good cause her little belly is nearly hit'n the floor 62 days today if our dates are wright am abit scared now hope she will be ok

don't be scared, you'll be fine :)

we are all here if you need advice. just be calm and try not to panic when she starts to whelp.

what annastasia say is very advise ,your girl will pick up on your fear when she starts to whelp so try and stay as calm as possible ,im sure you and her will be fine good look and keep us posted please :) x x

thank you shes off her food today so i wouldnt say it will be long now

thank you, your very kind ill do my best

hi thanks for your reply no move on her yet only a fue things have changed shes off her food and if you look at her tummy you can see the pups move'n round like mad its like some thing out of men in black and shes incontinent keeps leave'n wet patches in her bed so i keep changeing her sheets to make her more comfortable when she go's for a little wonder but is that normal tryed to take temp but refuses to let me near her bottom.....

Hiya my girls litter is 2 weeks old tomorrow, she was leaving little wet patches too, was told that was her waters breaking, she started delivering pup within 2 hours.
Hope all goes well with your girl xx

hi well i think she has started now she has been keening all evening and gotten sick once alittle if anyone is around would be delighted to no if this is normal have done some reading and heard that that can happen in early stages of labour???is there anything i could be doing to help her??????..........please help

Hi Niamh - sounds like you may both be getting down to business shortly :)  Don't panic, keep calm, relaxed and observe her closely - no outside trips to relieve herself without you at the end of a lead as she may squat outside and deliver a puppy that you don't know about or can't easily access.

My girl ate well around an hour before she began to whelp and sicked it up minutes before. 

Have all your whelping supplies to hand and the vets number on speed dial on your phone in case you need to be talked through anything :)

Good luck, Teri