Continued from Here

Welcome to the Forum Bull_Boxers :-)

Thank you for welcoming me here.....I would like to say that I have not been into this long. I only landed here about a year ago when I ended up with one of these dogs. So I am not the right person to be asking all your questions too. I am currently planning a breeding with my dog, but she is only 11 months old. So as you can see I am not close enough to it yet. I stumbled across a breeder who has been into it a few years. He and I have been planning a breeding. He is a great guy and really knows what he is doing. As for me I am new at this, and he is teaching me. Maybe I should direct him here to answer your questions.

Hey what's up, I'm not an expert breeder or a world reknowned dog specialist, however, I am very educated and experienced in raising puppies of most breeds, especially the bull boxer which i currently own. I was scrolling down the page and i saw the heated debate about bull boxers at the top. I'm not going to participate or add to this heated debate. However, I do own a Bull Boxer (Half Staffordshire and half boxer) and I feel I need to expand upon the discussions being held here. Remember, this is of my own experience and does not apply to the entire breed, just my particular dog so dont go out and buy this dog before doing research on it first. Besides, I dont' really feel like participating in a battle of the wits because i'll never stop lol.

I'd just like to add for the record that i've owned pit bulls and boxers and the boxer i had was a little ball of play until it was like 4 years old, but even then he still LOVED to play. My pit bull however had hours of fun hanging and swinging off a tennis ball on a rope tied to a tree in my backyard. My pit bull was VERY easy to train once it got out of it's "teenage years" (16 weeks to 1-2 years of age). However, my boxer was very stubborn and seemed to have attention deficit disorder. I had to use treats and excessive praise and affection to keep his attention. But, once he got the knack of it i saw he got the knack of it really fast. My pit bull wasn't as intellectually acute, however, he was extremely extremely willing and wanting to please. He loved attention.

As far as aggression, my pit bull ignored small animals like puppies and cats while loved to play with larger animals. However, if provoked, he would go for blood. It took me months to train that out of him.

My boxer, on the other hand, hated small animals. Probably from a strong predatory instinct. If a cat ran across his path, my boxer declared all out war until he was like 3.

Now you may be wondering why im talkin about pit bulls and boxers when the topic at hand is bull boxers. Well, I've recently purchased a beautiful male Bull Boxer. I LOVE this dog!! When we first got him he was the runt of the litter, infected with ringworn and coccidia with an ugly coat that resembled that of an old man going gray. Unfortunately, the breeder was a "backyard breeder." He was feeding the poor malnourished pup adult hard food (big bites) at 6 weeks of age. Not only was the dog abused, but he wasn't even ready to be seperated from it's mother yet!! And to make a bad story worse, the idiot breeder had the poor dog locked up in his garage in a cage full of newspaper by himself. can you say hyper isolation anxiety problems!!! I was very upset so i decided to rescue this poor dog since it was the last one. I bought it and took it to the vet. To make a long story shorter, his ringworn and coccidia went away in 10 days, his coat turned a beautiful, shiny, reddish-brown, and his temperament is wonderfully mild. You should see him, he rolls around with my 8 month old kitten all over the room. I think my poor doggy thinks hes a cat because he swats his paws and actually tries to pounce on people like a cat would, but i think it's adorable anyway. It's so cute to see the cat flip in the air and throw my pup into a headlock as cash (the bull boxers name) runs around with a clown look on his face and his tail in between in legs!

As far as his intelligence, this dog has got to be the smartest dog i've ever owned. I swear to god this dog learned to pee on paper when inside the house and to ring a doorbell hanging from the doorknob on the front door while we're home by the time he was 6 and a half weeks. By seven weeks he knew sit and speak. I'm trying to teach him heel and down but his brain is still very under-developed. He's going to be 12 weeks the day before halloween, I'll begin more rigorous training then.

SOOOOOO....after this short essay i'd like to conclude with saying that I definetely reccommend this type of dog to anyone, he's of medium size and energy, wonderful temperament and superior intelligence. Oh yea and he's EXTREMELY SOCIAL, especially with people. He's still not used to other dogs yet but only because he's still too young to be taken to dog runs where diseases may run rampant. I don't know much about predisposition to medical illnesses because He's not 10 years old yet, but I do agree that this cross breed is, in my opinion, in some ways superior to the parents. Principally, temperament, eagerness to please combined with exceptional intellectual ability, and tolerance of small animals. However, cash does seem to have inherited the boxer's general stubborness at times.

Welcome to the forum Bullboxer4life :-)

I am sorry but based on one dog at only 12 weeks of age I would not consider it sufficient to give an opinion on his temeperament, let alone other similar crossbreeds.

As you say yourself he is a cross of Stafford and boxewr, therefore not a breed.

See the post from Sylvi on Labradoodles thread!

It explains what it takes to create a breed. At least 10 generatiopns breeding true, with at least 7 unrelated lines (a line consiting of at least 5 females and a male). This is a lifetimes work. A first cross is not a breed!

Yes brainless, your are definetely correct. I do not consider my dog a recognized breed, however, Bull Boxers are rapidly gaining popularity, and clubs and associations are being created and organized to help breed Bull Boxers with desirable traits and temperaments. So I'm pretty sure that they will become a recognized breed in the near future. The boxer is a perfect example of that because the breed merely dates back to the early 1911 in Germany. It became a recognized breed in a mere 33 years in 1944 by the AKC. True, the Bull Boxer has only been being bred since the 1990's which is far from 33 years, however, bear in mind that telephones were in very short supply in the early 1900's in contrast to today's world in which everyone and their kid's (almost literally) has a cellphone or some way to be contacted. In addition, not to mention beepers, television, radio, the media, and the little box that your staring at right now. All these factors are going to play a factor in the rapid growing popularity of the Bull boxer.

As far as temperament, you can definetely learn a substantial deal about a pup's temperament very early on in his life cycle. Not to undermine your intelligence or anything, but someone with experience in raising puppies will tell you that there are small actions that your dog does that are small tell-tale signs of what your pup's "inherited" temperament level may be. For example, if a bulldog were very protective over it's food i would not be very alarmed because they are genetically predisposed to being aggressive. However, if a Labrador or a golden retriever showed the same signs I would definetely be very concerned due to their general passiveness. True, the first 2 years of a dog's life predominantly determines his temperament, but genetics plays a significant role as well. A genetically superior dog in terms of intelligence is going to "catch on" faster when learning new things. Yet, this isn't always a positive thing in that this also means your dog will be much harder to train due to the fact that they usually learn to be manipulative. If they realize that they can't chew on the remote control because you won't let them, they may learn to steal it and hide it when you turn your back.

Therefore, the fact that cash exhibits well above average intelligence at such a young age is a very encouraging sign. Remember, a puppy will always inherit different traits from each parent regardless of how well you raise your puppy. And, those traits will be most apparent early on in the dog's life because the dog doesn't know any better. For instance, if you have a dog that has been bred to fight, (like irresponsible people who breed pit bulls for fighting) it's offspring are going to inherit this tendency to be aggresive. However, if you train your dog not to be aggressive towards other animals by socializing him often, he will become less and less belligerent towards other animals as he ages.

Thus, a dog of only 12 weeks of age is undoubtedly substantial enough to analyze, with the intention of establishing a GENERAL guide as to what to expect from the crossbreed.

However, my dog alone is definetely not going to reflect the entire Bull Boxer community. The Breeders and owners are going to be solely responsible for determining the fate of this breed. If you get careless backyard breeders who breed their dogs for fighting instead of something positive like a companion, then guess what the Bull Boxer's reputation is going to be? Vicious. The fact that un-educated and irresponsible people purchase dogs from these backyard breeders doesn't help much either.

All I'm saying is, the crossing of staffordshires and boxers produces a stable ( in my opinion), very smart, eager to please, loves to play, highly sociable, mild tempered, all i want is for you to love me dog. While, simultaneously, retaining desired genetic traits such as speed, strength, agility, and that bad boy dont mess with me image that alot of people love!

As I have 4 generations of my breed I will agree that some traits are there when a puppy is small.

Unfortunately not the adult characteristics.

I am sure quinn will bare me out with her experience with a very laid back puppy, very affectionate, bomb proof and confident.

Unfortunately she turned out very strong willed!!! Not a bad bone in her body, but she has the knack to manipulate everyone and every situation to her own advantage!

This was not apparent as a baby pup, as she was not bolshy with her littermates, and in fact is extremely good with other canines. She is a perfect stooge dog at training club, as she is confident, but not aggresive, so stands up to bullys, but does not challenge others.

I don't think you can comment on the temperament of other crosses such as yours, as the traits will be so different, not only based on the quality of the parent animals but on the general characteristics of the two breeds.

My four generations have all got totally different charactersw, but they share certain breed traits in common with their breed. They use their nose, are independant, generally friendly and well balanced, people loving, sometimes stubborn, and wilful. They are not renowned for their quick compliance to commands. They want to know what's in it for them.

Your dog may have inherited stubborness, however, some of the traits you listed are not genetically inherited.

" They use their nose, are independant, generally friendly and well balanced, people loving, sometimes stubborn, and wilful"

Allow me to evaluate: All dogs use their noses. Independence is a trait attained when a dog is allowed to do things on their own (e.g. go outside to the bathroom by herself). A dog who is generally friendly also attains this trait as a result of the socialization process. Yes, some dogs are predisposed to being friendly but if you don't give a dog such as a Lab or a Retriever (Both reputable for their good temperament) attetion or socialize it, i think we can both agree that it probably will not grow up to be friendly.

"My four generations have all got totally different charactersw, but they share certain breed traits in common with their breed. "

You probably didn't raise all four generations identically. As your puppies grew, so did your knowledge of puppy raising. Thus, your methods chronologically changed. In effect, creating 4 generations with different personality traits. Furthermore, other factors play important roles such as experience, environment, attetion,etc.

You also mentioned that none of your dogs inherited adult characteristics. That's exactly why, they are ADULT traits. They are attained via experience. As they grow up the way you raise them will shape their personalities. If you spoil your dog, you will have a stubborn dog on your hands. You also said your dog was manipulative. This suggests to me that your dog is intelligent. However, intelligence is only a good thing if you know how to channel this gift in a positive way.

"Unfortunately she turned out very strong willed!!! Not a bad bone in her body, but she has the knack to manipulate everyone and every situation to her own advantage!"

Unless your dog was strong-willed when you first got him, his determination probably resulted from your own actions. However, a dog who is strong willed usually has an identity crisis and they percieve themselves as the "leader of the pack." The only way your dog could have came to you that way is if it's previous owners caused it or if he had "alpha" status when he was a puppy in his litter. Dogs with this status are the "top dog" of the "pack" and take nothing from no one. If your pup doesn't fall under this category, then don't worry he can be rehabilitated. This problem is more rampant than you may think.

However, since i dont know your training techniques or your dog, here are a few of the factors that cause your pup to become confused:

1) SPOILING HIM!!! Dogs who get spoiled think they are special, and therefore, above you.
2)Allowing him to meet new people or pets before you get a chance to greet them (Especially in new environments).
3) Looking to your dog under stressful situations (e.g. going somewhere new)
4)Allowing your dog to "walk you." Don't ever let him pull, encourage heel.
5) Letting your dog past door entrances first.

These are the main ones, but there are others that i won't get into.

And for the record, I did mention that my dogs traits are not to be used as a guideline to the crossbreed's personality traits. What i'm trying to get across is the concept that if you crossbreed both breeds, the product definetely has the potential to surpass both parents in quality of personality traits. Thus, i feel this crossbreed should be continued to be bred. But that's just my opinion.

"They want to know what's in it for them."

This i MUST disagree with you on. Most dogs love their owners unconditionally, not because you have the treats. Besides, you shouldn't bribe your dog unless your training it or he will percieve it as you being inferior in term of status.

You said that your dog is confident. This definetely is a genetically inherited trait and i know nothing about you or your dog but i'm confident enough to say that you have a pit bull. The reason your dog will tolerate other animals until provoked dates back to what it was bred for. In the "pit," dogs were bred to fight without any hesitation whatsoever. Any dogs that hesitated, were usually killed. Thus, your dog's confidence is acquired from his fighting ancestors. The fact that dogs were fought based on weight also explains why they usually will not attack animals (especially smaller animals). In the "pit" dogs were held in opposite corners as one dog is released. The dog released must attack the other dog without hesitation. Each dog takes turns doing this. Thus the pit bull's amazing bravery and confidence. The BEST fighters very seldom barked or growled at other dogs. They simply approached and attacked without a sound. American Pit Bull Terriers are not to be confused with American Staffordshire Terriers though. They are very closely related, but considered a different breed. These dogs were bred to fight as well, they were bred to fight BULLS. This further substantiates why most pit bulls will not attack smaller animals unless provoked. But anyways enough about this, i can go on forever.

It sounds as if you swallowed a bunch of doggy manuals and are relying on those for your 'expertise' than having any firm background in the actual raising and training of dogs.
I find it ludicrous that you have the nerve to analyze respected individuals on here who have years of breeding and training experience about what they are supposedly doing wrong according to populist pack theory.

And I believe that basing an entire lifetime of successful dog ownership on whether or not "the dog enters the doorway first" is absolute nonsense! It's been claimed repeatedly on here by people who are not really that certain of what they are talking about.

You have an extremely familiar writing style and aggressive mode of belief of how you are right and everyone else who doesn't agree is blatantly wrong. I tend to lean towards the opinion that you are one of our perpetual haunting trolls back to stir things up.
toodles

Your confidence has proved to be misplaced, you couldn't be more wrong as to what breed Brainless has!!!! And it really quite ridiculous to make judgements on her training and treatment of her dogs when you don't even know what breed it is!!

Come on jules, have i Jozi's character right???

Spot on Barbara :D, must try and remember that shes really a pitbull in a fur coat next time I see her LOL :D

Hello Barbara

Maybe your dogs are pit bulls with furry jeans.

Mick

Bullboxer4life,

<<<<<< I was scrolling down the page and i saw the heated debate about bull boxers at the top. I'm not going to participate or add to this heated debate.>>>>>>

Remember who quoted that further up the thread?
Dot

Boxers have not been around since 1911, a few years earlier infact.
The statements of many writers can establish the Boxer as a domestic dog as early as 1800. With many paintings dating earlier that show dogs
that look very similar. The first Boxer in the US documented was in 1903.
The first Champion in Boxers in the US was Sieger Dampf v.Dom in 1915, he was 11 years old.
Maiers Lord #13 was a brindle male born in 1890 in Germany.
In 1895 the Boxer club was founded in Munich.
There are paintings hanging in the Munich National Museum
that date 1738-1771 depicting a dog that is very much like
the Boxer.
The Boxer stud book started in 1904, nine years after the foundation
of the first Boxer club
The first Boxer show in Germany was at the beginning of the century 1900.
Early books on the breed say that the Boxer is a direct descendant of
the Brabanter Bullenbeisser.
Some Boxer info for you, as you can see they've been around for a little while longer than you thought :)

Well Brainless, looks like you and I had better ask to have our Breed Standard re-written, as it now appears our hounds breed charateristics are not inherited. Wonder why 99% of the breed I have met all exhibit the same traits - must be bad upbringing.

Interesting thought, if someone owns. say 6 dogs all of different breeds, then if the owner has done a good job they should all be exactly the same with regard to what we have erroneously considered breed traits.

Ja:)kie

B,
I think I'll stay out of this one! ;)

:D

Hi
I own the same breed as Brainless and Jackie and I've had them called a few breeds including Akitas,GSD's and even wolves but a pit bull!!!thats new.They are bred track and then hold their prey 'at bay' not to attack and so couldn't be further removed from a pit in that respect.
We obviously have been showing our dogs in the wrong Breed classes ladies -give back your CC's!!!LOL.
Archer.

Must admit that I was most amused when reading this thread at the assumption that Brainless has pitbulls -where on earth did that idea come from!

One question that I was pondering over about the Bullboxer - our 'breed expert' describes their puppy as the most intelligent of dogs and then goes on to waffle about genetic inheritance etc. No offence to staffs and boxers but where on earth does the 'superior' intelligence come from with this cross. Lovely as they are neither staffs nor boxers are reknowned for their brains so this one has me stumped!

Lisa
xx

Must come from the breeder or maybe owner. Ja;)kie

Actually Boxers are very intelligent and are used in other countries such as Australia and US as Guide dogs, in the US I know of one as a K-9 Narcotics dog,
they are also used as assistance dogs for diasabled.
There are some that do compete in agility and obedience comps here in the UK (and overseas).
It's just that most Boxers can be very stubborn & exhuberant, so are a challenge
to train, and perhaps that's where the unjust comment of not being
reknowned for their brains come from?
Some are too brainy for their own good and get upto untold mischief, a friend's pup
is only just 5 months and has figured out how to open all the doors in their house,
nothing is safe from this puppy :)
So you see they can be brainy when they want to.....:)

Just because a dog chooses not to obey, doesn't mean that it lacks brain power ;) :rolleyes: :D
Blind obedience proves little on the scale of intelligence :D :P

I would second that, lol :D

My obedience trainer says it is the inteligent ones that can be hardest to train, especially if they are brighter than their owners!

On the other hand she says the dumb ones are quite easy to get the basics into!

She also says that most pet owners want/or would be better off with a really dim dog!

Sometimes i would wish mine weren't quite so bright :D

:rolleyes: heh-hem....... :D

I always think that Boxers are clever enough to make people think they are stupid,so nothing is expected of them. They are anything but stupid
Anne :-D

Lisa,

i take offence at that.

how would you know that Staffs or boxers are not reknowned for their brains

i assume you have never owned either and therefore have no experience of them other than seeing them in the street or at a show or you might have met one that wasnt reading a book at the time or herding a flock of sheep

you are attacking this person for apparently not having any knowledge about what they are talking but feel as if you can do the exact same about breeds you know nothing about

here is the breed standard for a Staffordshire bull terrier from the kennel clubs web site dated september 2000 I assume that the standard hasnt changed in the last 2 years without me knowing about it check out the wording for Characteristics

you are accusing this person of speaking without authorative knowledge yet you are OK to do the same

why is that ??

Z

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Hello Tony

I have refrained from participation in this topic so far. The people with bull terriers know how intelligent they are.

Regards Mick

I find that arguing about intelligence levels in any animal, including humans rather silly. Why does it really matter?
Trainability is likely the greater issue . Chimpanzees are close to man in intelligence levels, but does one really want to live with an adult chimp who is strong, very smart, and has its own agenda? ;) :)

I think I used to :D

So did I, but when I realized that they didn't stay small and cute. Well.... :rolleyes: ;) :D

Apologies to those I have offended - I did not mean my comments to come across as insulting to boxers/ bull terriers!

Ziggar you are quite correct I have never had a bull terrier so have no first hand experience of living with one and my comments were purely made on heresay. I have however lived with a boxer who was completely barmy!

Apologies again and I hope I am forgiven - I will put a little more thought into my posting in future before pressing the send button.

Lisa
xx

'The fact that un-educated and irresponsible people purchase dogs from these backyard breeders doesn't help much either.'

Have been reading posts on this thread, I thought the above quote very funny, why encourage them ? oh sorry the pup in question was 'rescued' lovvl :D