The RSPCA says it is to withdraw from Crufts dog show amid concerns about the health of pedigree animals.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7616591.stm

No big deal imo.
Donations to help build their swanky office
putting 5 week old staffie pups to sleep because they said they were going to be nasty
Only on the ball if a camera crew is with them.
They do help dont get me wrong but they arent as wonderful as they like to pretend.

I think that is regretable.  I would have liked to have seen them working hand in hand with the KC to improve the health of those breeds that do have problems and to educate the public on just how and where to buy a healthy puppy.  Both organisations have influence and could have benefited each others aims for a healthier dog population

I'd love to think that it was a case of the RSPCAs own loss but I think not - IMO it is certainly not in the best interests of pedigree dog breeders, exhibitors and more significantly the dogs themselves to have such a weighty organisation against them :(  It seemingly gives far greater credence to the findings of JH and co's documentary - certainly to the general public at large.

I hope that the KC now go on to completely disassociate themselves from the BBC at whose feet some of this blame must lie and can somehow manage with the help of an outside PR firm to have the true picture of pedigree dogs, their breeders and the conformation world at large showcased on ITV and/or various satellite channels.

I still can't help but feel that the KC should have seen some of this coming a long time ago!

"RSPCA vets wants to see the development of health-focused breeding strategies for individual breeds, including steps to increase their genetic diversity. "

isn't this what most breders are interested in too and are already setting up and promoting for their breeds?

Surely the RSPCA would be better to support the breeders where these issues and the welfare of the breed is the main priority.  And isn't this why we have breed shows?  They should work with the KC ad not against.

This is going to do nothing but promote indiscriminate breeding and puppy farms so how can it be based on the interest of animal welfare.

A donation of £48,000 was recently given to the RSPCA to improve the general welfare of dogs.

That quotation comes from the KC's response to the RSPCA statement here

Perhaps they should ask for their money back!

I dont think anyone can disagree with the statement about breeds where there are obvious health problems.  I personally could never be involved with any breed which required dogs to constantly be born by sections and which involved dogs looking like they are stuggling to breath etc however lovely they look however I sincerely hope the kennel club will now withdraw any future donations to the RSPCA along with all pedigree dog breeders and owners.

One of the most unhealthy dogs I ever had was a x breed as it had perths disease as a result of being poorly bred.  It was also one of the most bad tempered dogs.

Why is it that all pedigree dogs are branded unhealthy when it is the very small minority which in reality do have widespread health problems. 

Personally speaking I believe some of the breeds could be evolved and in time we would all get used to seeing them.  I can remember many people in my breed complaining how they would never look the same if they werent docked however we all get used to seeing them in the ring and in a few generations it will forgotton.

> One of the most unhealthy dogs I ever had was a x breed as it had perths disease as a result of being poorly bred. 

My poor brother :-(  He has had Perthes (I guess that's the disease you meant Chloe?) in his hip at a very young age and consequently now suffers a great deal of pain from that hip.
I shall tell him from now on its because he was poorly bred! lol :-D

Quite interesting that the RSPCA have pulled out of Crufts though, and can't say I'm suprised.
I still think that this topic is only the very start, health problems yes, can be tested for and so on - great!  But some of the KC standards *shakes head* really really either need looking at OR some breeds are going to end up like freaks... imo

> But some of the KC standards

For example?

I can say that niether off these organisations are on my list off favourites the RSPCA, many years ago put my daughters beloved ginger cat to sleep,within a few hours of it being picked up ,he was under medication from our vet for a flea allergy,and also seeing my vet weekly he was just growing his fur back,and he did look a bit moth eaten.When I phoned them to ask them if they had my cat ,after a lot of fobbing me off with Oh the Inspector isn't in the office at the moment,when I finaly did speak to him I was told yes they had picked my cat up,and due to his age and condition they had put him to sleep.They had only had him 4 hours.I cant tell you how upset we were and were told that when we were ready for another cat they would let us have one.Oh Marmaduke was only 4 years old,not old for a cat and the condition was under treatment. I never give any money or support them now.

Sorry Tessies Tracy I didnt realise humans could get it :)  But it sounds like the same disease.  Absolutely not implying your brother was badly breed although as I always say to my husband if he was a dog nobody would breed with him as he has severe skin complaint and very bad breathing :)

Legge-Perthes disease is the same in humans as dogs. Humans are about the most random-bred species on the planet, but seem to have the most inheritable conditions ... food for thought?

A knee jerk reaction from an organisation who could have worked together with the KC.

Can't say i've ever found them or their counterparts that helpful or that bothered on the occassion that I have had to turn to them.

Doesn't bother me one bit that they won't be there.

I wonder how many of these freaky breeds they actually deal with?  Sorry I was being sarcastic in that comment, bet they deal much more in cross breeds and the health problems and temperament problems that they have. 

I still don't believe that pedigrees as a whole are unhealthier than cross breeds myself, yep some maybe but the majority not.  As usual a minority is causing a problem for the majority.

I wonder if they jumped before they were pushed. Would not have been the first time they were banned from Crufts by the KC, would it!

If the RSPCA and the newspapers are going to continue spouting all this stuff abut how horrible Crufts is, maybe we will as a side effect have more SPACE there next year -no visitors in the way. Wouldn't that be useful LOL. :)

I do think the RSPCA does some good work,sadly it seems the troops on the ground do the hard work while
the fat cats sit on their bums and make the decisions.

cant say im that suprised.

> Sorry Tessies Tracy I didnt realise humans could get it :-)  But it sounds like the same disease.  Absolutely not implying your brother was badly breed although as I always say to my husband if he was a dog nobody would breed with him as he has severe skin complaint and very bad breathing

:-) Hi Chloe, I didn't take anything you typed as implication nor took any offence - no worries.

Perhaps I'm being naive in my thinking re: the RSPCA pulling out of Cruft.
My thinking was/is that if a professional body 'takes a stand' against dogs being bred that are unhealthy, then it could only encourage and perhaps even enlighten those that know less about dogs/breeding/standards, etc to be more vigilant or informed  when buying a pup.
Whilst I'm not saying that KC registered breeders are at fault, far from it, aren't we/they the people that should be setting the right example?
I say the word we as well as they, because although I don't breed, I do own KC registered dogs, specifically because:
a) I knew they had been health tested for various hereditary illnesses
b) Because although bred by breeders to resemble the KC standard, they were not bred to some of the 'extreme' examples I have seen in my breed (eg Head and Skull: Short, deep through with broad skull - SOME Staffords are around with HUGELY exaggerated heads).
This is what I'm trying to get across about SOME standards, they are sometimes taken to the extreme. 
Hope I've explained that well enough! :-D

>The RSPCA says it is to withdraw from Crufts dog show amid concerns about the health of pedigree animals.

Hmm

Pity they weren't as vociferous on the subject of pedigree dogs being bred in vast numbers by Puppy Farmers and BYBs who don't give any consideration to health, welfare, construction or whether the pups will get a good home for life.   But then, without the products of these places needing care and rehoming on a regular basis their role would be somewhat diminished ;)

I look forward to a saner experience at Crufts in the future, with more room and fewer people who think that Crufts would be great if it wasn't for all the dogs getting in the way of a good day out :-D

I just caught the end of a rather heated spat between Mark Evans and Caroline Kisko on Radio 4s PM.  I shall have to have a proper listen to that on their web site later.

>This is what I'm trying to get across about SOME standards, they are sometimes taken to the extreme.

Remember that all the KC standards have the clause:
Faults
Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog. (my emphasis)

That sounds interesting, Isabel. :-)

Do the RSPCA keep records as to the number of dogs/their breed/age that it puts down due to ill health/poor temperament? and will they start to charge less to adopt a pedigree now (that they state pedigrees are unhealthy!)

> Remember that all the KC standards have the clause:
> Faults
> Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog. (my emphasis)

Absolutely!  I agree, but I think that some of the extremes I'm talking about within my particular breed are effecting the dogs health, but not by departing from those foregoing points, but breeding far too extensively too them.

I must admit I'm glad the RSPCA has backed out!  There "followers" would not be coming to support crufts anyway so it would be a waste of money for them to do so.  Now maybe there will be abit more room for, lets say, a dog show!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although I must admit the RSPCA did come out when called by a passing cyclist who found our dogs wounded by the side of the road and took her to the nearest vets.  At least they came out and got her there (but took them about an hour to do so)

I have also pulled out of a companion show held under KC rules and Regs with special classes for PEDIGREE dogs held by....Guess who! ;)

You can listen to the exchange between Caroline on Mark on the web site now.  Just scoot through to about 47 mins if you don't want to listen to the whole programme.
There is certainly no love lost between those two!  Mark dodged entirely the suggestion that they would be better attending Crufts and engaging with breeders and owners over this but Caroline did point out that their pitch has already been give away :-D

Im sorry but i have phoned the RSPCA twice about two different dogs who are in bad condition, they did go, but the animals are still in the bad conditions, they are a disgrace!

HERE!! HERE!! DILL

I agree all the way "those in glass houses"

Denese

not so keen on the RSPCA for the same reasons already mentioned.

but thumbs up to them doing something right. total support from me.

the Dogs Trust are also considering their position re Crufts involvement.

i went to crufts once. never again. awful event.
much prefer the wag and bone show.

> i went to crufts once. never again. awful event

I'm still considering my own feelings about the RSPCA pulling out whilst I listen to opinion on here and wait to find out a bit more about the RSPCA's reasons for making their decision.

Yours seems a very different view to the majority so far BUT I'm not sure what your point is.  What was so awful?

There is one dog show that I will never attend again. Crufts. I've been a few times and hated it. HOWEVER it is purely because I hate crowds. :-) I have panic attacks if I can't get to a door. I need to know that I can escape if I start to feel hemmed in. Moving from one area to another, and having to put up with ordinary people just out for the day who complain about the dogs being in the way is not my idea of fun.

The RSPCA, by not going, are just proving that they aren't interested in the welfare of pedigree dogs. Or at least the ones that are bred for the show ring. Why should they be? They know these dogs are healthy. They wouldn't have qualified if they weren't, would they? I bet they will have a campaign in March again though. Just so that they can hijack the dog show scene. It's so easy to pick on the show scene, they can find us easily after all, can't they ;-) Where are the campaigns against BYB's, or puppy farmers? Where are the campaigns against people who want there little Fifi to have a litter, just because it's natural, or they want the kids to see puppies being born?

> They know these dogs are healthy. They wouldn't have qualified if they weren't, would they?

Aah, if only ... sure it's a very small minority that aren't though.

I wonder if they'll be giving the KC back their £48k as they're so disapproving? Surely they wouldn't want to be sullied?

M.

Earlier on this site I raised the topic about how things would change under the RSPCA running pedigree dogs and pedigree dog breeding. Now it seems they are actively seeking to do this. To start with they plan to rewrite EVERY breed standard.

It is now that we must support the Kennel Club and the Accredited Breeder Scheme regardless of what we think of it. Perhaps our advanced membership should be open only to ABS members? I have my reasons for saying this but am not at liberty to divulge the info I know.

Concerns about the health of pedigree dogs?

Funny that, because the RSPCA is more than happy to rehome pedigree animals rather than give them to the necessary breed rescues who would deal with the relevant breed, probably because the RSPCA know it's easy money for them as people will rehome pedigree's rather than mongrels.

My beef with the RSPCA is as follows:

1.  About 12 years ago, we found a cat who had been injured.  The RSPCA after several hours eventually came to pick her up.  I tried for days to find out what had happened to her.  Nobody could tell me.  Apparently, according to the girl on the phone, she had to be destroyed because of internal injuries but she was not too sure.
2.  4 years ago, a fox was badly hurt in some land next to our school.  It was obviously suffering and our children were very distressed as to its appearance.  The RSPCA refused to come out and help it.
3.  Around the same time a small terrier bitch was running around beside a motorway McDonalds.  She had obviously just had pups judging by her teats and was very nervous - an animal in real danger and distress.  She was impossible to catch and kept running onto the motorway.  I called the RSPCA.  The refused to come and help this animal and told me to call the police instead despite my telling the girl on the phone that I thought she might have puppies nearby.

Where were all those heroic inspectors that you see on the telly?

The RSPCA are only interested in self publicity and self interest. 

I have since revoked my membership of this organisation.

The charity was founded to prevent cruelty. Strays have never been the RSPCA's remit - they used to be the responsibility of the police, now it's the councils who should be contacted. Injured animals should be taken to a vet.

Hi Isabel what does the programe come under on the Radio 4 site or could you post a link?

Thanks, Teri

> what does the programe come under on the Radio 4 site or could you post a link?
>

Sorry, I meant to do that.  It is here.  You can also read the comments on the blog but they are not terribly enlightening.  Mind you, the comment Eddie attached to the picture is quite funny :-)

My opinion is HOORAY that the RSPCA have pulled out.
I have refused to help them in anyway shape or form for years after reporting things several times and nothing being done.  And once a white cat all matted with blood pooring from its nose and mouth, plus limping.  I caught called the RSPCA and they said they had no space and to let it go again.  Even though to let it go would have been a death sentance.  I have never really been a cat person but even I could not do that.  Contacted another branch and said I was too far away from them and even though I was prepared to take the cat to them they would not admit it saying I was out of their area.  Contacted another organisation who were further away and a lot smaller, they said for me to get it to a vets ASAP which I was going to do anyway as soon as I got of the phone and they would cover the charge but to make clear they dont put cats to sleep unless really necessary.  That cat had been hit by a car, had no chip and was never claimed but after surgery to correct its broken jaw and leg she found a new home and I have made a point since then to only give money and time to go charities.  And the RSPCA is in my opinion not one of them.

Emma

Thanks Isabel :)

i went to crufts once. never again. awful event.

And you say that as an exhibitor, a helper in Discover Dogs, or just a visitor?

I just listened and thought Caroline made a fair job of deflecting some of the punches thrown by the weasel but TBH it still strikes me that someone specifically trained in PR would put a significantly better spin on things  .....  sadly that's what it seems to be coming down to :(

At least the lady can speak without becoming flustered or losing her temper (bet she has a mini wax dolly with gazillions of pin holes though :-D )

She's their spokesperson isn't she?  I had always assumed she was trained in PR.  Not sure that she has any other function but really don't know.   If she has no qualification in that role then yes, they would benefit for professional help, certainly for the next few years, I would think.

They are taking a stand, we could hardly expect them to carry on at Crufts after their chief vet criticised pedigree dogs including those and especially those, entered in dog shows, in front of the nation. 

It would be hypercritical, but I very much doubt the KC and pedigree dogs have heard the last from the RSPCA...

They want health, genetic diversity, and welfare to be put before the modern interpretation of appearance.  What's wrong with that?  Surely every responsible breeder would want to breed sound healthy animals...

She is their spokeperson, yes, but IMO they need someone who is not in house - the whole image of the KC and it's role in the world of pedigree dogs needs to be turned around and fast.  A specialist firm entirely outwith the organisation would, I feel, be better suited to looking at the whole picture from every angle.

Whether she is trained in PR or not, she works for the KC - public relations is a specialist field and those who's profession it is full time are what's needed when in crisis.  IMO they were needed long before this to prevent a crisis LOL

> They want health, genetic diversity, and welfare to be put before the modern interpretation of appearance. 

I think if you asked the KC what they wanted they would say the same so I would say they could work together.  I think the trouble is, as Caroline say in todays broadcast, the RSPCA are really aiming to exclude all notion of beauty.

initial reaction is hurrah and good riddance but then one of slight disapointment as I always get so much fun walking past them sticking countryside alliance stickers on their goody bags and annoying them!!!

> those who's profession it is full time

I thought it was her full time role within the KC but I could be wrong.

Isabel,

I saw one of the interviews with CK when it all hit the fan (a morning programme) and if she is qualified in PR I'll eat my hat!  Despite having the opportunity to put her (the KCs) side of the story she made a dismal job of it and was far too polite in the face of very aggressive behaviour from her opposition!  very disappointing, she was clearly out of her depth ;)

Personally I think that the KC should hire a good PR person and pronto!  

She has also been praised for not loosing her cool and staying polite :-) but I agree I think she could have been less niaive about the people she was dealing with initially.