> where i will need to contribute as my parents who are also on one income as my dad is on long term sick cannot afford to keep me.

You will only be funding yourself not another household and this is what your 75 pounds is for.  Your partner will not need to feed you if you are not at home. 

> believe me i'd far rather stay at home, i'll be bored out of my box at mum and dads :-)

I can certainly sympathise there, I had to do the same following my RTA :-)

> does that not include post operative care?

For instance?  I would think your general expenses will be down being unable to do little more than rest and eat.

> lol did you intend that to sound that patronising or am i aflicted with forum misunderstanding?

I think you are considering you laughed as well :-)

> Call me old fashioned but I think men still thrive on the idea of providing for their loved ones

lol, well liam is anything but old fashioned and thrives more on the idea of being there to suport me in person, not a phone call and some money in the bank. we are both staunch feminists and that idea of a mans job does not fit our beliefs (just our opinions).

> who has left the house at 6.30 and rarely been seen again before 7pm, plus 24 hours regularly on call, throughout his working life

lol, though given the career liam wants i might have to get used to that

> someone who has worked 10 years has many more potential years of work in them so should be given equal support to someone who has worked for a longer period.
>

I agree with you there.  We certainly do want to support you, get you well and get you back contributing for the day when we are needing our pensions :-D  It is just the level of support that I think people disagree on.
Your view that everyone should get more will only be sustained if people pay much more in tax but then that means those that earn little and are just about managing will be pushed over into the realms of their needing support and those just above that become closer to just getting by.  Thus the burden becomes even greater.  The balance has to be struck and personally I think providing sufficient to meet daily living expenses of the short term affected is about right.

>> does that not include post operative care?
> For instance?  I would think your general expenses will be down being unable to do little more than rest and eat

of course, shall not be out on the town or anything lol, but for example petrol to the hospital for check ups- its really quite a drive from my mum and dads. and i will need to feed myself, contribute to power etc so that is an additional cost.

i think that if sick pay increased along with inflation it would be far more fair.

> we are both staunch feminists and that idea of a mans job does not fit our beliefs

Well if it's a comfort to you and your feeling of equality you would be looked to to provide the same support if the circumstances were reversed :-)

> Astarte I really feel for you, we have been there sorting my brothers finances as he was phsically unable to work for months and months before his op and now will remain unable to work for the forseeable future whilst he is in recovery :-(
>

thank you angels2. its a bit of a nightmare isn;t it? from what you said about your brother i'm nowhere near as bad and should be on my feet far sooner but is such an additional worry isn't it?

it was from info from the NACC that i thought i might get income support as well as SSP. guess not though.

best of luck to your brother- is he feeling better after his op?

> no, you'll have paid for my primary and secondry education, for any benefits my parents might have got when i was wee, the money you'll have put in will have been spent. it will be the workers at that point in time paying for yours, which is fine and great, its how its got to work.

Did you think that I didn't know that?  :)  I have been around a lot longer than you, I regret to say, so I do know how 'things' work!! :)

>as i cannot be alone after the surgery i am temporarily moving home, where i will need to contribute as my parents who are also on one income as my dad is on long term sick cannot afford to keep me. i can;t stay at home with liam as he will need to be working all the time= 2 households.

I'm very confused here - the only extra expense your parents will have (and which you'll contribute to) will be your food, surely? Their rent/mortgage/council tax/heating etc won't go up with you there. The money for that would be what you'd spend anyway, wherever you were - you won't need to buy food for your own home because you won't be there.

> I do not think it reasonable for a social security system to purchase asset

But the system does pay towards housing costs when your on Income support (the interest on mortgages) and will continue to do so for as long as a person qualifies, my argument is that with other benefits they do not take into account your housing costs at all if it is mortgage, so you cannot get relief on the council tax, working tax credit etc as you do with rent.

The system by paying rent is in effect paying toward assets, not yours but your landlords.

With both Housing benefit and mortgage interest there are limits on the size of the Rent and Mortgage so if a home is unreasonably large/expensive it will not be paid for.

In many cases mortgage interest on a Long standing mortgage will be a lot less than Rent so it makes no economic sense for the system for someone to be deprived of their home and have to Rent.

If the mortgage interest had been treated the same as Rent I would have remained in my Job (albeit part time to look after new baby and other child) and the system would at that time have saved money.

power and heating will go up as i am always freezing at theres- normally fine but post op a bit of an issue. not to mention extra power from cooking- will prob be on special diet, and yes my food so its a wee bit to add. more certainly than i usually need to pay out.

sorry, posted twice :)

> Did you think that I didn't know that?  :-)  I have been around a lot longer than you, I regret to say, so I do know how 'things' work!! :-)

well you did just say otherwise in an earlier post- you asked the question and i answered it.

??

i can;t stay at home with liam as he will need to be working all the time= 2 households. i feel the SSP should take such arrangement- the direct result of illness or operations should be taken into account.

I may be waaaaaay off the mark here but have you tried getting in touch with Social Services to see if they could help with some care in your home so that you could stay at home? I'm not totally up on it all but I know when a family member couldn't be alone her local social services organised care in the home.

i think that if sick pay increased along with inflation it would be far more fair.

I've been thinking the same about my salary recently!!!!

i just worked out the bare minimum of the above- food, rent, council tax (with a reduction), power (just for me), my phone and my pills- £87.50 per week.

Just out of interest? Is that a total or is that your half or the rent and council tax etc? By that calculation your OH will only have to pay £12.50 on top of whatever he pays?

trust me I have great sympathy for you and despair of the system but is my calculation right?

i feel the SSP should take such arrangement- the direct result of illness or operations should be taken into account. i am having major surgery, i'm not going to be able to move very often, how am i supposed to take care of myself if my partner is having to work all the time and cannot be there to care for me? therefore 1 household is simply not an option. believe me i'd far rather stay at home, i'll be bored out of my box at mum and dads

Before you are released from hospital your home situation is assessed. If the provisions for your return are not suitable then in-home care can be arranged - although I do believe it is means tested.

> Your view that everyone should get more will only be sustained if people pay much more in tax

it don;t believe thats true, i think if government spending was a little more sensible then we'd manage. i'm not talking tons more, simply in line with inflation- i got £75 the last time i was in hosp (may)- how much have food prices etc increased even since then? and how long has £75 been the SSP level?

> We certainly do want to support you, get you well and get you back contributing for the day when we are needing our pensions :-D 

and i'm happy to pay a bit more tax to give you a decent pension when the time comes- i believe that a decent pension is perhaps even more important than decent SSP :) my grandparents sometimes even struggled on my grandads enormous (comparitively) army pension, can't imagine how other people cope!

> Before you are released from hospital your home situation is assessed.

When Hubby and I finally got home, both on crutches, following our RTA a social worker came to visit us.  I don't really know who requested it, this was many years ago, but we managed to make her a cup of tea and pass in along our own little human chain to reassure her we could manage as we were rather frightened of being taken into care :-D

> I've been thinking the same about my salary recently!!!!

agree on that to!

> may be waaaaaay off the mark here but have you tried getting in touch with Social Services to see if they could help with some care in your home so that you could stay at home? I'm not totally up on it all but I know when a family member couldn't be alone her local social services organised care in the home

maybe, not something i;ve looked into but i think i;d rather leave that option available for those who really do need it. we will cope- i can save in advance, liam will work more- not the best plan but we can if we try, others might not be able to.

just my half paula, and thats the absolute essential stuff. doesn;t include liams rent, electric for our flat, food for liam, food for the dog, travel expenses for liam to come see me (£5 each way- though we are going to see if work will temporarily change his shift to work around my mum so he can get lifts back and forth) and whatever else crops up along the way.

> yes, but to my mind thats not very much. as i said to isabel above i've worked out the minimum of my bills at £87.50 a week

Income support for a single person expected to apy all their bills is aropudn £55 a week so even if yoru lived alone you are getting more than the IS in your Sick Pay.

Just a thought, In the short term if you need personal care 24/7 and you have difficulty moving around inside or outside the home you sould be looking at another set of allowances for care and mobility this could potentialy mean £40 or more each week. When you are better and no longer need the care or assistance these benifits stop.  Please look at the govt web site for more information on this.

hth

To get DLA you have to have needed the care for more than 6 months(unless you are terminally ill), as this will be post operative care I would sincerely hope that this level of care will not be needed for 6 months after the operation

i was hoping to get both IS and SSP according to information provided by the national association of crohns and cholitis.

> To get DLA you have to have needed the care for more than 6 months(unless you are terminally ill), as this will be post operative care I would sincerely hope that this level of care will not be needed for 6 months after the operation

i won't be eligable, had a look already (though angels2 if your reading it, has your brother thought of this?). shall be back up and boaut in 2 months hopefully :)

I think you will be capable of personal care long before that.  I doubt they would discharge you from hospital before you are capable of washing and dressing yourself and only needing help with food preparation, house cleaning etc unless things have changed a lot in recent years.

maybe, not something i;ve looked into but i think i;d rather leave that option available for those who really do need it.

But you obviously do need it if you need somebody with you 24 hours after your op and like you have said it would then mean that you didn't have to go to your Mum and Dads so not having to contribute to 2 households.

Although you don't agree with the amounts of benefit that can be paid to someone in your circumstances don't forget that your operation ( unless you are funding it privately) will also be paid for from the tax system so you are actually getting a very good return on the contributions you have made to the system so far in life :)

> i was hoping to get both IS and SSP according to information provided by the national association of crohns and cholitis

IS is means tested and as your SSP would have been more you wouldn't have got any and could only have claimed housing benefit.

lol, to be honest i don't think mum would be happy to have anyone else look after me. there are other factors to such as i live up 4 steep flights of stairs- no way i could get in and out (parents is a bungalow), the dog will be at mum and dads and i don't want him being back there on his own as he'll be mighty confused when we get him home as well as a few other things. my staying there won't incur huge extra costs, but it will be a bit more.

also dad is home 24 hours anyway. and granted i am in theory a grown up but i suspect i'll want my mummy :S

i know that but i still think my central point is sound

> I think you will be capable of personal care long before that.

isabel i'm going to have a 6 inch hole in my stomach- i'm getting a foot and a half of bowel chopped out (at last look 6 months ago, might be more now!). i'll be able to stand and walk after a few days but apparently i will be utterly exhausted, i doubt i'll be able to shower (dressings), i'm not going to be able to bend and i will be in a lot of pain (ta for the heads up dexter :)), i'm basically confined to bed for a good while after they release me (hense the other thread about suggestions of things to do while not moving :). the NHS cannot afford to keep me in for my full recovery period.

but i won't be in that state for the whole time, i believe i'll be up and about within a couple of weeks. will be resting well though becasue i want back to work asap, if i can do it in less than 2 months i will :)

> i'm basically confined to bed for a good while after they release me

Have they told you that?  I think that would unusual because of the risk of DVT.  I do know people that have had a bowel resectioned and you will be pleased to know they don't leave a 6in hole! :-D  I have no doubt you will need to rest a great deal and will not manage much more than sitting out initially but I do think they will be encouraging you to do that. 
I think you might find that an abdominal wound will not have a dressing these days in which case they may recommend that you do shower in order to assist cleaning the wound, the important thing being to make sure it is dry afterwards but even if it does have a dressing I think they will be anticipating that you will be able to wash yourself by the time you are discharged.

> they don't leave a 6in hole! :-D

my surgeon stated this. i don't know if maybe your friends had a closed surgery? also i have a bit of a rotund belly and he's cutting from navel to top of bikini line- further to go lol (which i'm slightly perplexed by as my stricture is at the top of my stomach but hey, he's the best apparently so he should know :))

> I think they will be anticipating that you will be able to wash yourself by the time you are discharged.

lol yes, but i doubt they'd want me in the house alone while doing so. smallest slip and torn stitches, ouch!

> will not manage much more than sitting out initially

by bed i also ment couch, the comfiness of mum and dads is about the same. though since my stupid bouncy beast is going to be up there i may be confined to my room as i fear he will jump on me (he is that daft)

I agree with you Barbara about rent/mortgage being supported.  I have a couple of tenants now having some sort of support sadly for them had they been able to stay in their own houses and the government assisted with the interest only it would be costing the government less than what they have to pay me :-) BUT I have to cover my costs or near enough them.

I am very firm though in helping the needy only too many people today think it is the God given right to everything and everything. 

We have a fantastic system in this country and I wish people would stop knocking it at times, there are huge huge flaws with the policing of the system but the " infrastructure" is very good.

There would be more money around for the needy if they kicked 50% of the sickness benefit claimers off their bottoms and put the back to work..

> maybe your friends had a closed surgery?

Yes they did.  I know someone who had a re-astomose and another who had a temporary colostomy but neither had a 6in hole.  Do you mean a drainage hole? 

no, i'm having open surgery- my surgeon says that the closed ones have a "less predictable result" apparently. was a bit bummed at first as the closed heal quicker, but i guess i want whichever works best.

edited to add: i think its so he can have a scout about in there and see if there are any other strictures they might have missed as the big un' is right at the start of my bowel and as i said was 6 months ago.

mum says it involves a giant gun that rejoins the sections using sticky doughnut type things and staples! gah! (shes a theater nurse)

I think we are at cross purposes Astarte.  They did not have a laparoscopy (key hole surgery), they have a laparotomy ( a big inscision) but it was stitched up afterwards!

Hopefully you will be up and about fairly quickly. It is part of the recovery procedure now to be mobile asap. My OH had a kidney removed and had 89 staples in total - he spent a week in hospital but was out of bed after 3 days and after a further week at home was able to move fairly normally with just some discomfort when moving from a prone position.

Mind you he was a very determined and independent person :)

yes i'll be stiched up to. i'm just going on what i've been told!

heres hoping i recover that quickly

With a positive frame of mind great achievements can be made :)

> no, i'm having open surgery- my surgeon says that the closed ones have a "less predictable result" apparently. was a bit bummed at first as the closed heal quicker, but i guess i want whichever works best.
>

This is what my brother had. He also had the staple type things (sorry correct name unknown!), he only had to have part of his bowel removed in the end. He is at home now but couldn't move at all for a few days. :-(

Have you spoken to anyone at Nacc on the telephone re benefits? from what i have heard they are really good with advice.

Before my brother had this illness I would have thought it was quite a minor illness but I have seen what it has done to him and he is only 19! By the time his recovery is complete he will have been unable to work for nearly a year!
Astarte I wish you all the best with your surgery - let me know how it all goes. I hope that you come out able to regain a "normal" life (I have seen how this illness can stop that from happening) and feel heaps better for having your surgery. :-)

thank you very much angels 2, the prognosis is pretty good for after the op, they are thinking between 5 and 10 years before i have a serious relapse but i've been warned to expect to be having the surgery again at least once more.

> Have you spoken to anyone at Nacc on the telephone re benefits? from what i have heard they are really good with advice.

i've not called no- i'm not a member so didn;t think they'd be keen to chat, but i did send them an email. waiting for a response still.

>Hopefully you will be up and about fairly quickly. It is part of the recovery procedure now to be mobile asap.

That was certainly the case for my Mum after her hysterectomy a few years ago.  Her op was more complicated than normal, bigger incision etc (50 odd staples...looked like a zip up her stomach ) but she was still able to sit at my grandfathers bedside for periods of time in a wheelchair within 24hrs. Not an ideal situation but he was terminally ill in the same hospital and died 3 days after her op.  She was upright and mobile (albeit with significant discomfort) for his funeral which was exactly one week after her operation.

They seem to try to get you mobile as soon as possible these days. I had an op in 2006 which left my stomach stitched up. Yes I was in agony but I was capable of looking after myself within a couple of days(just very slow!!). I had no choice I had a 5 year old daughter who needed looking after. It was about 6 weeks before I could drive and was properly mobile but was up and around the house. A few days after my op I unexpectedly had to sit in a car for 2 hours and go to a christening. It was a day where I was very uncomfortable and in quite a lot of pain but it needed to be done.

Like somebody else has said if you have a determined positive outlook you are much more likely to be up and about faster. I'm not suggesting you will be able to run a marathon but I was able to run my house after they had chopped bits of me out!!!

Hi Astarte, when i was in hospital, it was a real struggle for my hubby running backwards and forwards, work, sorting the dogs, and just doing the basic stuff let alone time for me which i was critically ill, in the end his work let him have compassionate leave as it was too much for him to deal emotionally ( very lucky).
Money was tighter but we did manage (just),off topic but aren't hospital car parks expensive?? :)

I doubt i will ever be able to work for various reason, just sometimes life can be unpredictable and it's out my hands....i wish i could work to earn more money, to contribute and also to meet people especially at my age.

Concentrate on getting yourself well Kim, i really wish you all the best, i understand you just really don't need the extra worry of finances when your faced with having such a big op :)
Will be thinking of you x

> I'm not suggesting you will be able to run a marathon

ha ha ha! couldn't run a marathon even with all my bits attached! :)

> ),off topic but aren't hospital car parks expensive?? :-)
>

thank you dexter, and thanks again for the advice and info before.

ludicrously so!!

19 days! swinging wildly between dreading it and being really excited!