Hi all

My friend at work went to see a litter of pups at the weekend (wont say which breed as don't want to get into trouble), she has put a deposit on the pup as was very happy with the breeder, she just had one slight concern and that was that the breeder had 2 litters at the same time. I am not a breeder but I find this a little unusual, it has been heard of in my breed before but I know most breeders would only have one litter at a time, but bitches tend to be in season at the same time dont they?!

Do you think my friend should be concerned? She had her mother with her who owns and has bred a litter of this type of dog before, her mother was happy with the pups, they saw the mothers of both litters and they both looked as if they'd had pups....(so they weren't "bought in" from a dealer or anything)

Opinions/advice would be welcomed :-)

What was the breeders reason for two litters?

I've known it happen by one planned litter and another accidental litter and also because they wanted litters from both bitches and couldn't wait due to ages or use of a dog?

It would ring alarm bells but I would be asking the reason first!

I think, in fairness to the breeder, she would have to ask her why she chose to do it that way and perhaps ask what extra steps she is taking to ensure they all have a reasonable amount of her time although if it is two small litters that is maybe no more difficult that one large one.

I dont see what the problem is?

I know a few breeders that have more than one litter a time....in some cases it can work out well, say if one mum doesnt produce milk or lacks in the maternal instinct,
if she is happy with the breeder and the condition of the pups/mums checked all the papers etc....then why shouldnt she gt a pup from them???

I'd want to know the reason for breeding two litters at once. If you're hoping for a puppy to keep yourself to carry on your line you'll wait to see what a single litter gives you. I would suspect a second litter is being bred just for money.

And how certain is she which pup is from which litter? Accidents with barriers and pens can happen, or an unscrupulous person might not care and mix them ...

A breeder friend of mine often has two litters at the same time. She works and has the two litters at the same time due to taking time off of work (her hubby cares for them after she has to return to work as he cant work). She does this once a year, and uses her holidays for it.

Personally I couldnt cope with two at the same time, its hard enough with one! Plus I wouldnt feel like I'd be able to give each pup the early socialisation needed. Besides the one I'd keep back would need 100% given to it during ringcraft/toilet training/general manners etc. If I had two pups that I had kept back (one from each litter) then I dont think I would get the best out of them. The very same reason for not selling two pups to the same home.

Another breeder in my breed often has litters of two or more, or over lapping, fairly continuously. They arnt BYB's, infact they are highly successful exhibitors. How they cope is beyond me! But hey if they can do it and still have time for shows/bringing on dogs/stud work, hats off to them...

same here i know breeders that will have 2 or more at the ame time and are very well known in my field too , if she is happy with what she as seen and can keep going back to see pup if she can i dont see the problem ,i couldnt do it my god i feel died now lol

If you are concerned about how much the breeder may breed, why don't you mention the breed and then someone with dogs in that group who get the BRS, could start by PM'ing you for the name , they could look up in some copies if this is a common occurance for this breeder to set your mind at rest.

There are good and bad reasons why a breeder would have two litters at once :-)

I personally wouldnt be over concerned. Yes there are money makers out there but if everything else was OK with the pups and mums then that means they are in good condition.  Not something that someone in it for just the money would be concerned about.  In our breed it is common for 2 litters to be available at once but this is usually when a great international stud is over in this country on a loan.  Bitches do sometimes come into heat together and the 2 mums breed could be relations but not necessarily as close as sisters so they could use 1 stud on both to see which line has the more favourable traits.
Personally I have never had 2 litters at once as it is enough of a nightmare with one and my breed only have small litters

Emma

Thanks everyone for your input, I know the breed has numerically small litters and both the litters that my friend saw were small, so I don't think she has anything to worry about really, especially if her mother (who has been in the breed for 30+ years) said that they seem ok. I think my friend just wants everything to be perfect as its her first dog, and she mentioned it to me so I thought I'd see what the opinions were on here. From what my friend has told me I dont think the lady is in it for the money at all, and I know she's keeping at least one pup for herself.

Thanks again :-)

>I know the breed has numerically small litters and both the litters that my friend saw were small

Ah, that's the difference! My breed tends to have large litters (8 is comfortingly small; 10, 12 or even more isn't unusual) so two litters at once would really ring alarm bells with me!

> My breed tends to have large litters (8 is comfortingly small; 10, 12 or even more isn't unusual)

I went to some friends to help whelp their Dalmatian bitch (first litter for bitch and owner) she had 15 !! Well... you should have seen their faces.

As for the OP.... I had 2 litters together about 20 years ago and said never again I meant it until recently,when events conspired to make it neccessary to mate two bitches around the same time.
It was the first pups I'd had for 2 years and was quite a shock to the system I can tell you..... :-) especially as I kept one from each litter and the whole litter stay with me til at least 12 weeks. Once again I say .... never again!!!

If everything else stacks up then good breeders can occasionaly have two litters together.

Yes, my friend has occasionally had 2 litters at once, usually when she's been trying desperately to get bitches into whelp and after a year or two or missing has mated both at once and ended up with 2 litters!

A friend of mine (very reputable and very well respected in our breed, 40 plus years of experience) has 2 litters at the moment. Two of his bitches had missed, one had missed twice and now is too old to be bred from. So when two of his younger bitches came in season together he mated both and as he said for all he knew one could miss again. Two litters and a waiting list of over two years old.

Some breeder of small/toy breeds that have small litters will mate two bitches in season together as it can be helpful with milk, pup burden etc

I would not be concerned if they had proper care and well cared for. The reason for breeding is also to improve the breed.
Also if the litters were like the sammies, if you get 7 pups you are over the moon!!!
The average is 5 pups sometimes less, some breeds have 10 12 and 13 in one litter.
Also if she had a waiting list for her puppies.
Make money! I have never made any money out of litters, with the care, feeding, vets bills. Home packs for new puppy owners,
the rest goes striaght back into my dogs.
I supose it depends on the breeder.

Denese

I was in this position at the end of 2006, I had a bitch who had produced two very good litters to the same dog and was able to use a new import but the bitch would be too old by next season, but I had already arranged to take her daughter abroad, again a first litter would be too late by the next season especially if she missed, and I didn't want to fly her in the Summer.

The older bitches litter should have been born and gone to new homes by the time the younger was in season, what happened, the older girl was several months late, and the younger a month early!

There was a good chance that the younger one might have missed.  I had previously normally had litters of between 4 and 7, so hoped if both took to have smaller litters, what I had was two litters of 7, and I would not choose to do it again.  It is very hard work with two litters, keeping two lots of whelping a nd rearing quarters and looking after two Mums, and possibly having to keep them separate.