my son is 16 and just bought himself two more pug pups to add to our now group of four as these ones are hopefully show quality, he just wanted me to ask how someone like him should go about making a name for himself and then in a few years to come hopefully own a show kennel. thanks.

Gwen the resident Pug expert will hopefully be along soon to answer your questions :)
good  luck with the 2 pups together :) not somethig I would ever undertake :)
Lea :) :)

thats exactly what he is now saying, that he should have started with one.

my god! who would sell to a 16 year old? especially 2 at once! i thought you needed to be 18!

i went with him obviously, he just paid as they are specificly for him to show, sorry i didnt make it clear.

Hi
Hopefully he bought from a breeder who is established in the show world, and who can advise him.  If he has never shown before, then you need to get to some open shows with him (and Champ shows too, of course, when they come around) to familiarise yourselves with the show world, ring procedure etc.  You also need to get the pups to ringcraft when old enough, and hopefully people there will be able to help you along. 

Sorry for generalising, but without more info it is hard to be more helpful.  So, first things first, does the breeder show, and are they willing to help?

Hi, we have a pug baby who we hope to show later in the year, i was wondering what is the best shampoo for her,also what sort of comb is needed we have a soft brush.

suepei

>how someone like him should go about making a name for himself and then in a few years to come hopefully own a show kennel.

To make a name for yourself you need to do something that people will remember you....Being a sore loser is normally the quickest way ;-)  But to have a good name, well you need to be a kind, considerate handler, you need to show your dogs in a way people see as being gentle, you need to do abit of winning so people see and remember you etc.

To own a show kennel you need to have an affix, start breeding and showing!

Umm would be interested where he got two from.  They are not cheap, actually for a good one I would have though around a thousand pound or so.  Most breeders wouldn't sell two together either especially if they knew someone wanted to start in the show world and do well as it's hard enough to get one up to standard but two at the same time he'll have his work cut out.

Wish him all the best though.  Wouldn't start breeding for quite some time until you know all the ins and outs of the breed, especially as they are not the easiest dogs to breed with.

Gwen,

slightly off topic but still pug related: What health checks do pug breeders need to carry out prior to breeding? I have recently been asked this and I know there is a x-ray for a spine condition(?), but what others apply? I suppose it would also be helpful for our new members to know for future reference, just incase they decide that they might like to breed :)

i totally agree with you about not being the easiest to breed from. my friend found this out. her bitch had a lovely birth but it all went downhil from there. she didnt want to no pups would only feed them when she really had too so my friend was feeding them every 2 hours so was exhausted herself so i would suggest that anyone who is considering breeding pugs thinks long and hard befroe hand black pugs are harder than fawn too .

Hope you dont mind me responding for Gwen, she can add to my reply if i've missed things or am incorrect.

But, at the moment there are no health tests recommended for Pugs from the KC, though i would expect any breeder i bought a puppy from to x ray the parents for hemi vertebrae (the spine condition you talk of).  We have had both of our girls x rayed, one is affected by the condition and will become paralysed.  The other is clear.

the breeder used to show but now she cannot as she is a bit older, but we have got in touch with the pug dog club and the chairman lives just around the corner and she seems willing to help. hope this helps.

Hi, no health tests required by the KC.  There is research being done in Hemi-vertebrae, and x-rays are being collated by Dr Andreas Schemel, who is doing research into the condition, along with the AHT.   However, problem with examining  the data (last time I got news ) was that the vast majority of x-rays submitted were from affected pugs - this did not mean  that most pugs are affected by HV, but that the majority of x-rays submited to him were of affected pugs, therefore research whilst going ahead, does not give a pictues of percentage affected. Some people also do hip checks at the same time, but again no central scheme to record and compare.  With HV there are various degrees of severity, if a pug is affected then the end result can be anywhere on the scale from no visible signs ever to complete loss of use of back legs.  Mode of inheritance also not yet known.  It is believed that the gene causing HV is tied in with the gene giving the "twist" tail (as in the Bulldog).

> we have got in touch with the pug dog club and the chairman lives just around the corner and she seems willing to help. hope this helps.

That is excellent, if she is willing to mentor your son this will be a great help for him.  Next shows coming up are Dalington next week and Driffield the week after, both in the north.  If you can get it would be a great starting point to see dozens of pugs, and get an idea of the show scene.

There are lots of great pug books available, ranging back to nes form the turn of the last century to modern ones.  They have some fabulous photos and can be helpful to "get your eye in" looking at some top quality pugs.

Are the people at ringcraft being helpful about handling a pug, correct leads etc?

> what is the best shampoo for her,also what sort of comb is needed we have a soft brush.

Hi
When still babes I use Johnstons baby, as it is gentle and rinses out very easily.  When bigger I use elvive for giving shiney heair, or any other reasonable quality shampoo.  Using a conditioner can help when coats are changing as it gets hair out quicker.  I use a soft pure bristle brush for general grooming and a last "finish" at shows, and a very fine comb when getting out casting coat.  How old is  your baby pug?

well we are taking the pups over during this week as she is also a champion judge and can give a second opinion on them, yep he's read all the books and knows a lot as he works at a breeding show kennel. we went to the east of england show, were you there?

yes they expensive, but he saved long and hard for them. we defently wouldnt start breedingnow or anytime soon as he is still only learning at his job. he is very excited for the future though.

hi Gwen,
our angel (not really) grandson named her, she is just over 4 months.
he is hoping to show her in junior handling and maybe at some open show's,
I will take her in at ch show's if she makes the grade for showing.
She is such a funny happy little madam.

Sue

Hi we was at east of England with one of our pugs & we will be going to Darlington & Driffield so may see you around the shows

Margaret & Barry

oh right, well i just went with my son as he wanted to just get a feel of what it was like. he loved seeing all the pugs as there are not many about around here.

Hi, i will be at darlington on toy day as i am stewarding for the spin's.
I have meet you before at a local open show where you took a photo of my grandson asleep.

Sue

Hi Sue
small world i remember taking photo might see you at Darlington

Barry & Margaret

yes hoping to get to see some of the pug judging if the spin's are finnished early enough.
will be having a look at driffield, will come and say hello.

Sue

16 year olds can have babies.....

not that I am advocated 16 year olds having kids.....  just seems our system doesnt make sense..... 

I certainly wouldnt want two pups from the same litter.... good luck with them as I think it will be hard work...  I dont think the breeder should have sold 2 from the same litter regardless of age.  I always thought pugs were quite expensive to purchase, god I certainly didnt have that money when I was 16. 

Is he wanted to go into breeding as a living?

yes he does, but not yet, he is working at a breeding kennels learning everything he can, but he wants to start showing and making a name first. also there not from the same litter there 4 weeks apart.

At Richmond Championship show on Friday I was waiting to watch the hound group being judged and was pleased to see a local (Southampton area) man with his BOB Pug in the Toy group and take group 2.
As a child I lived next door to a family who had a pet fawn pug called Oscar.

Good luck for the future

My 12 year old nephew has 2 pugs, and is starting to show them - and they are from the same litter.  OK, he did not have to buy them, but is fully involved on all aspects of their care, training and show careers (or not as the case may be).  At 16 I had 2 ponies - being from a non-horsey family I was left to my own devices as to their care, only help I got being a lift to pick up hay and straw until I could drive at 17.  Some teenagers are quite capable of knowing what they want to do, and caring for an animal or two.  2 pups at the same time is hard work for house training, and not for the faint hearted, plus double the entry fees if they do make the show ring, but I am a firm believer in trying to give helpful advice about the current situation rather than getting hung up on what might have been a better way to go about things before buying the pups.  It does seem to make little sense to say that the only youngsters who should be able to compeltely immerse themselves in the world of dogs are those form doggy families.  A 16 year old with ambitions in the dog world and without coming from a showing background seems admirable to me, when most of this age group we hear about in the media seem interested in little but drink, drugs and misbehaving.

well said gwen, he works very hard training and looking after those pugs, come rain or shine he is walking them, training them. all of this aswell as a full time job at the kennels, and i know this is exactly what he wants to do and he'll stick at it.

Could he not do the YKC stuff??

Im relatively new to showing and didnt do any of that stuff (im only 24 myself, and if i'd known about YKC a few years ago i'd have joined!!), but i imagine its a great way to get into the showing world and to learn about showing and meeting people.

I'd just like to add my encouragement - it's great to hear of teenagers that have a real interest and are prepared to work hard and save up to get the things they want. He sounds as though he's a credit to his Mum :)

Too many times youngsters are shot down too quickly.  It's only been in the past couple of years I have been given more respect and people will listen to what I say.  There have been people who have always listend to me and of course I do know alot more now I'm 20 and researched so much whilst I was supposed to be doing uni work.... ;)

yes he does, but not yet, he is working at a breeding kennels learning everything he can, but he wants to start showing and making a name first.

Not quite sure if this was in response to the question "Does he want to go into breeding as a living?" If it was (and if not, I apologise!), you both need to rethink as it simply is NOT possible to be a responsible breeder and make a living from it. Breeding and showing is a hobby -a VERY expensive hobby. But we do it because we love it. :) The puppy farmers make a living out of breeding, simply because they do not care at all about their dogs or who buys them. The rest of us just pay out money all the time and whenever we have any pups to sell, we may get enough money left to pay off our vets bills, or maybe even buy a takeaway pizza...

You can never get enough money from a litter to cover costs (of litter and health checks) and cover the cost of vet bills and shows, especially if you break the shows down to entry costs, fuel costs, veichel costs (MOT's, wear & tear, cages etc) kennel running costs etc etc etc

I know many of breeders who will also give pups away or reduce price them for friends or people they want to have one of their dogs and it's even something we are planning to do, Especially those going to show homes to people we want to have one of our pups.  Most people would rather give them away to the right home then sell them to the wrong one!

I know many of breeders who will also give pups away or reduce price them for friends or people they want to have one of their dogs and it's even something we are planning to do,

I've got an imminent litter. I'm hoping to keep a pup (of course) and I am giving one to somebody for free (various good reasons) so that's two pups I won't get a penny for.

he is not doing it for the money, he is doing it for the love of his breed, he is thinking of maybe having a small boarding kennel aswell for a more constant stream of money, he's only young yet, he is just trying to work out how he can do it all.

Sounds good. :)

Lots of the top exhibitors run boarding kennels/grooming business, which work in very well with breeding and show commitments.  Jsut a thought, if he is workign at a kennel at the moment, can his employers give help and advise on showing?

He's got plenty of time yet!

The only advice i would give as a young-ish (24) person new to pugs is to start as you mean to go on.  It may take him longer to make himself a name just by breeding the occassional quality litter rather than churning out loads of pups in the hope of getting one good one, but to me, thats the better way to go about it.  Also, although it is much less common than in some other breeds, there are some pug people who dont like to see new people in "their" breed and especially young people, and i have had comments, sometimes behind my back but very often to my face, or infront of me as if they think i cant hear them!!lol  But you just have to be thick skinned!!

I showed horses for about 15 years, right from a very young age so i went into dog showing already with a thick skin and able to ignore jealous/nasty/upsetting comments and you really need to be able to do that.  I imagine i'd have found it horrendous if i hadn't already dealt with that kind of stuff for so long!!

Also, getting a mentor, someone you can trust to give you(him) totally honest and unbiased advice would be a good place to start.  He needs to get out to some shows and chat to some people first to find someone who will help him, unless the breeder of his pups might do that??

well the owner of the kennel he works at show tibetan terriers and daaschunds so does not really know a lot about pugs, but he is trying to teach him what he can. im hoping toi start the pups in ring craft next week but its a 45 minute drive and were all really busy at the moment. 2 pups are hard work.

At least knowing osmeone who shows will enable him to learn the basics, even if not speciifics to.  Hopefully when  you meet up with the Pug Club lady who offered to give some advice you will have a clearer picture of the possible potential of  your pups.  Then its jsut up to lots of leg work, I think, - get to training classes and talk to people, ask for advice (but remember that the dog world tends ot "breed" instant experts - those who have only been in showing for a short while but think they know it all!!)  takes time to work out which is valuable advice and which is not, I am afraid.  At training you will be able to pick up schedules for local shows, where you can watch and lear, picking up ring procedure, and hopefully "getting an eye in" for a good dog.  Good luck, and don't be afraid to keep asking here for advice.

I think that it is really sad that some of the existing Pug Exhibitors don't encourage/support new exhibitors to the breed. 

Surely anyone who has an interest in their own favourite breed should be pleased that their are others who find Pugs as delightful as they do. And should be keen to offer guidance/help.  Surely a young crop of exhibitors/breeders will help ensure the breeds continuance after they themselves are too old to carry on and what better way than to teach the "new" people so that they can keep improving the breed.

Or am I just being naive??

When I started showing Pugs (already involved in another breed for several years) 5 years ago I found almost everyone friendly and helpful.  Have also not noticed any lack of encouragement to younger exhibitors - my nephew is loving being in the ring, and although the occassional judge seems to feel that kids can be discounted, this seems to be across breeds generally, not especcially in pugs.

Hi Gwen:-)  I was just responding to Jess's comments on her own experience with a small pre-portion of exhibitors- I myself have met/talked to a few Pug Breeders/Exhibitors and so far they have been really friendly and helpful.  But I suppose there are always some people who are not happy unless they are being unpleasant.

my grandson is so looking forward to showing his little girl, he is only 8 and for the last 3 years has attended show's with me, watching and learning.
He has done most of angels training himself.
I am so proud of him and his commitment to her, he walks her, brushes her, and plays with her, the only thing we do is feed her.
My grandson live's with us so has a great understanding of what her needs are.

Gwen,
it was lovely to meet you today, hope i get to talk to you again at Driffield.

Sue

Lovely to meet you too, Sue.  It is great to be able to put faces to fellow CDers :)  Statying on the pug subject, I hear today that the pug walk is going ahead on 27 September, let me know if you woudllike details.