I take Maisie and Billy to our local field for a good long walk twice a day every day.  They both go off lead for at least an hour at a time.  Today, as we were walking around they went ahead sometimes, followed a little and always came back when called (I always bring treats and keep working on their recall - they are JRTs after all and I don't take anything for granted).  They were brilliant - and they have been brilliant for ages.  Suddenly, Billy disappeared into the undergrowth.  I called and called.  Even Maisie went looking for him - neither of us could find him.  (She is such a brilliant, intelligent dog.)  I called Maisie back and, as good as gold (true to form), she came back to me and I put her on the lead.  The little *** had found a tiny hole in the fence around the field - he obviously knew that it was there!!!  A young girl called me to say that he was with her - he had run up the road and seeing me (obviously annoyed by now) he had run up her path and was trying to get into her house (her mum had the door open).

Whenever I walk them, I consisently work on their recall - calling them back for treats.  I work hard to earn their respect (Billy is an absolute angel indoors - butter wouldn't melt).  Outside he is good for 99% of the time, but there is always this 1% where he isn't and it comes when I least expect it.  Basically, no amount of 'Billy comes' worked when they normally do. 

I also hate to admit that I was so cross with him, it was all that I could do to stop myself from giving him a smack.  (I didn't of course- but I was close.)  He had actually run across a road (albeit a quiet one) and I couldn't bear to think what might have happened if a car had been going along fast...For that moment I hated him for being so naughty and that's what he was being - wilful.  I feel ashamed of that as well.  His curiosity had got the better of him and there was no way that I could be as interesting as the mysterious world beyond the fence. 

Will I ever get it right?

I wouldn't think so!! They are terriers, they have a mind of their own & that is what makes terriers special! A lot of terrier owners would be happy with good behaviour 99% of the time, never mind 100%!!

So True!

Terriers are bred to think for themselves and make their own decisions, Jack Russels are closer to their roots than many terriers too as they are usually working-bred, so that's what they are going to do ;)

If yours are 99% at coming back then thats fantastic.  I have worked hard with mine but couldn't say they are 99% going to listen to me, it's probably more like 90% ;)

One thing I can guarantee with mine, if they are going to hoof it, it'll be when I least expect it :-D

Most terrier owners I know say that their dog's main aim is to make them look like an fool, and I'd have to agree :-D

I can guess why he did it.  It has been warmer today and it makes the animal smells stronger so I bet he got a smell and set off to where a critter had been.  Used to have the same thing when I had terriers.  You should be proud that you can get them back at all, as I have known many a terrier turn deaf as soon as a lead comes off.

Emma

I would be proud of the fact that you have 2 dogs that are so well behaved.  Dogs are living creatures that sometimes get distracted and do things that are instinctual to them - it's not him being wilful, you didn't even come into the equation he was consumed with his own doggie stuff.  I sometimes have to remind myself that I get distracted and don't focus properly on things (probably a lot more than my dogs) and it helps with my expectations.  Like someone has already said terriers were bred to think independantly and ber able to work without constant direction from their handler so he is just being a terrier, a pretty well behaved one by the sounds of it.

I find with terriers that really varying the rewards for a recall helps a lot rather than it just being food.  Most terriers love a good game or tuggy, if you don't already try adding that into the mix.  Also being unpredicatable on walks and varying things, training, sent work, hde and seek etc keeps the terrier brain engaged :-)

My 3 terriers are 100% on their recall - I call, they look at me, then come back....... when they're ready!!! which is normally after sniffing forever in the bushes or chasing a bird or bunny.

My 3 terriers are 100% on their recall - I call, they look at me, then come back....... when they're ready!!! which is normally after sniffing forever in the bushes or chasing a bird or bunny.

I wasnt gonna post, but I had to chuckle at that one!

But, as others have said, terriers are a different sort all together, and I would be happy to get them to listen to you most of the time.  And everyone gets annoyed with their dogs at some point, and good for you for showing restraint when you wanted to smack a little sense into him.  (we have all thought about it, so that is normal as well)

You mean terriers and cockers go deaf when out!! Hurray I thought it was just my cocker. Today I met up with some mates and turned back to walk with them and Whistler bu--ered off and did his walk his way and caught me up in the carpark!! (I was in sight all of the time) talk about who owns who!

I have two JR's a bitch & dog. Lulu is a lovely loyal dog and Oskar not always good. He ran off about 1 month ago. He was picked up and police rang me to collect him.
Vet said he probalby smelt another dog on heat and that is why he ran away.
He has been casturated thou, do dogs sometimes still run away when they smell another dog on heat even if they have been casturated.
I've never had this problem with any of my other dogs.
Lindsey

You mean terriers and cockers go deaf when out!!

My border and my mum's cocker - yup deaf when out - big time.

I keep my border on the lead full time.  He has 0% recall and my mum's spaniel has recall when he feels like it - probably 0% as well although she'd deny it.  Hmmmm.  And my mum's cocker always meets her in the car park.  Urrrr, dogs.

CG

PS:  You're doing OK with yours :)

My sister has a JRT who if not constantly watched will go off and do his own thing. It is worrying and he corsses roads until he finds another person or dog to keep him amused.
The calls that come in to say we have your dog is exhausting.

My sister lives all but 2 houses away in the country.
The house in between us has a fenced in garden for their dogs, their dogs can't and don't get out, but this JRT can get in and out and steals their dogs toys..

He has been stolen twice now from running off and once he was gone for a year.

I am at a loss as how to drum into them that he needs to be contained into a very secure garden. We have a secure garden for my dog, but the JRT manages to get out either by jumping the fence or by digging his way underneath.
She continues to allow him to do as he pleases.

So all i can say is that your doing very well with the recall. One slip up has worried you enough to want to do something about it, so i applaud you on that.

Is there anyway that you could put him on a very long line, so he thinks he is off on his own but you still have the ultimate control??

Terriers fun to watch, but i would never have one, they do test your patience no end.

Thank you all so much for all your kind replies and it was very interesting to read about your own experiences.  It's also nice to hear from people who understand the trials and tribulations (and of course the entertainment and laughs) of owning terriers!   Non jack russell owning people do not understand!  I will get Billy back on his long line (again!) and keep working with the rewards- better rewards this time - I'll try the garlic sausage (see feeding).  I also need to vary my route - totally my own fault.  Maisie and Billy are very different dogs - she loves a route that she can predict but Billy probably does get bored and is looking for something new. 

Thank you everyone and some of your comments were very entertaining!  I sometimes get the impression that to be a JRT owner you have to be a little different from other dog owners who might prefer the more obedient type of dog!  I have always been a cat owner so I suppose that helps.  I love the spirit and independence of my little dogs.  They are not clingy and are quite happy to make their own entertainment at home but as you say, the minus point is that they will always have that tendency to escape...no matter how good they may seem!!!

Jack Russells can be trained to do well in most disciplines including Agility, Obedience and Working Trials; a JRT recently got his CDex and a Lakeland is also doing well in trials

You can add the exploits and trials of hound breed owners to yours, the Elkhounds know how to bog off after lulling you into a false sense of security, fortunately never had one try to escape, the master of that and sadly led to her death was a Belgian Shepherd.

To be honest the Elkhounds are actually easier than she was in the main, all except Jozi who at 9 is still a trial, until her I was actually pretty confident in my training them to recall, she has undermined my confidence somewhat nd I am less secure about the younger ones than I was with the 3 that came before.

Most terrier owners I know say that their dog's main aim is to make them look like an fool, and I'd have to agree

i dont agree with that, a terrier can be just as obedient as any other breed of dog, if you put the time in

i have to say that the problems encountered with recall is all down to training, spaniels are so easy to train its unreal! and training recall is the most easiest aspect of training there is! as a puppy a dog naturally wants to come to you. out of the 4 terriers ive bought as pups i could walk with 3 of them to heel OFF lead the other one wont as i didnt put enough time into her as a pup but i soon learnt my lesson. none of this is aimed at you brainless :)
and as for the people who say its a terrier, terriers dont retrieve! ha we have 3 terriers here and two retrieve perfectly when out as before the eldest one doesnt due to lack of time.

> a terrier can be just as obedient as any other breed of dog, if you put the time in

Yes, it can be - it's just that they don't always want to be ;)

Yes, it can be - it's just that they don't always want to be

yes i understand that but i have no problems at all with my youngest doing as she pleases she doesnt leave my side unless fetching her ball

I have put so much time into training my terrier that it has become almost a full time job :) But he is still a very independent young man and the hardest dog to train I have ever had. There is just no comparison between the levels of obedience between my two dogs and I have come to the conclusion that Cooper will never reach the same levels as Harley, not through lack of effort or commitment but purely down to the fact that all dogs are not the same and will never be the same.

In fact, once I accepted that fact and stopped comparing the successes of one to the "failures" of the other our little terrierist's issues are now seen as being part and parcel of him as a whole and we just have to get on with them. I fully accept that some terriers can exhibit model behaviour, as can dogs of any breed, but others won't and probably never will as happens with other breeds too. C'est la vie :)

i cant see why you would have been comparing them in the first place? obviously when my husband has completly obedience trained his malinois she will be a million times better than i could ever dream my terriers could be but it doesnt mean that a terrier cant or wont be obedient

Why wouldn't I compare their behaviour? I have one dog whom I have trained to very acceptable levels of obedience (Gold good citizen level), has great manners, great temperament and is a joy to own. The other dog has been very hard work after a year of training to get to a standard where he wouldn't yet pass his bronze level KCGC.

You have obviously compared your dogs behaviour to that of posters on here from the comments you have made, you have also compared your husband's dog's expected behaviour to that of your terriers so can't quite see what the problem is :) People compare their dogs with others all the time :)

I have come to the conclusion that Cooper will never reach the same levels as Harley,

i wouldnt have expected them to in the first place :) (this is what i meant not the comparing sorry :))

Amongst terriers and within the different breeds you still get differences of independance - no amount of training will stop a dog being independant when he wants to if he's that way inclined.  If trained well then the dog will obey most of the time, but with an independant dog, sooner or later he will ignore you and do what he wants, it's best to be aware of this so you can be 'one step ahead'  otherwise you will be caught napping!   That's the day you will look like a right idiot with an untrained dog, and of course there's no point in saying he's usually ok - no-one ever believes it!

no amount of training will stop a dog being independant when he wants to if he's that way inclined.  If trained well then the dog will obey most of the time, but with an independant dog, sooner or later he will ignore you and do what he wants,

I am really relieved to read this :) It can really knock your confidence in your training abilities when you think you have made progress and then encounter a situation when it all seems to fly out of the window :) Even with eyes in the back of your head and constant 360 degree monitoring our terrorist can sometimes give you the slip. If you call him before he sneaks off he readily returns but sometimes his brain is on the ground alongside his nose and you don't even exist :)

Having said that he is now around 95% reliable on recall - which is practiced so many times on a walk that he must cover four times the distance I do - and that is a huge improvement. Now I just need to paint him dayglo orange and I will be able to see him in the undergrowth :)

I sometimes get the impression that to be a JRT owner you have to be a little different from other dog owners who might prefer the more obedient type of dog!

I think you have to tailor your training and be different depending on each individual dog, there are lots of different breeds each with their own traits and lots of independant breeds need you to think outside the box more than some of the breeds that were specifically bred to work with their handlers.  I know several terrier owners who work their dogs and compete them in flyball agility and obedience.

I think there are certain dogs you have to work harder with but when you get there with independant minded dogs it's all the more rewarding :-)

>I know several terrier owners who work their dogs and compete them in flyball agility and obedience.

I do too, I also know people who go picking up with their dogs - some are terriers - and those same dogs will still go deaf when the mood takes them.  At the end of the day, if the dog is 'off duty' then he's likely to behave like an off duty dog ;) nothing to do with training and everything to do with being a terrier

At the end of the day, if the dog is 'off duty' then he's likely to behave like an off duty dog  nothing to do with training and everything to do with being a terrier


Ain't that the truth!

nothing to do with training and everything to do with being a terrier

I think it's more to do with it being an "off duty" dog full stop than it being a terrier thing.  A lot of people leave their dogs off duty on walks so they go self employed and make their walks interesting for themselves and then are much more likley to go deaf because they are busy getting their rewards from the environment for themselves.  Independant breeds in some studies, the ones we say are "stubborn" or difficult to teach came out on top for their ability to learn and work out problems rather than the more "biddable" breeds.  It's about finding out what makes your dog tick, tapping into that and making it work for you.

One of my girls is an independant breed, who if I didn't spend time everyday training and using rewards that she would go off and find for herself in the outside environment such as sniffing and chasing, now looks to me to get those things.  She's interested in me when we are out and about and that is very much a training thing.  You can use any breeds natural instincts to your advantage in training, if a dog wants something then your in good shape for training, and I never met a terrier that didn't want something :-D

>I never met a terrier that didn't want something

Maybe it's because my terriers and many that I know are working-bred, but no matter how highly trained, when outside they are interested other things.  I have one I thought wasn't interested in working at all, until she hit 3 years, then she smelled rats and the instinct kicked in, if she hadn't been on lead at the time she'd have torn herself to pieces getting at the rats, same when she smelled fox. 

As for never being off duty, even guide dogs have to have off duty time, their owners have to guarantee a safe enclosed place to run them before they are even considered for a dog. 

>the ones we say are "stubborn" or difficult to teach came out on top for their ability to learn and work out problems rather than the more "biddable" breeds

I have always believed this, but this is also what makes it difficult to say with any honesty that the dog will 100% listen every time.   The ones that can work out problems are also the ones that can always spot the 2 seconds that their owner's attention wanders and that's when they take off.   Personally I think it's safer for owners to acknowledge that their dog will occasionally ignore them.  That way they have more chance of being one step ahead ;)

As for never being off duty, even guide dogs have to have off duty time, their owners have to guarantee a safe enclosed place to run them before they are even considered for a dog. 

I didn't say that a dog should never be off duty, I just don't think walks in public generally are the time for that.  But dogs can equal working to fun and many do depending on how they are trained and what reinforcers are used.  I just think way to many people leave their dogs to go entertain themselves on walks.  It's often a time when people get their mobile phones out to catch up on chats or meet up with other walkers and get distracted.  My girls get much more out of their walk when they are "on duty" because that means fun interacting with me. There are times when I don't feel like putting 100% focus in so in those times I go to an enclosed space like you say and I know the dogs and any others are safe. 

Maybe it's because my terriers and many that I know are working-bred, but no matter how highly trained, when outside they are interested other things.  I have one I thought wasn't interested in working at all, until she hit 3 years, then she smelled rats and the instinct kicked in, if she hadn't been on lead at the time she'd have torn herself to pieces getting at the rats, same when she smelled fox. 

That was exactly my point, working bred terriers especially have very strong motivators, and people with these dogs may have a harder time utilising the things that motivate them but when they do work out how to do that they have an easier time of training precisely because they have incredibly motivated dogs, and there are ways of doing it.  I know colleagues with working bred terriers and others have sighthounds (resuces) that have previously worked that have very strong desires to be around their handlers and working for them when out and about, it takes time and it's not easy but it can be done.

Personally I think it's safer for owners to acknowledge that their dog will occasionally ignore them.

Again I think that is true of any breed, they are living beings that can get distracted and don't hear what is going on around them.  However the more you train for distractions the less it happens and the more there concentration improves and the more they focus on their handler.

That way they have more chance of being one step ahead

That I couldn't agree with more, you always need to be thinking ahead with dogs :-)

> I just don't think walks in public generally are the time for that. 

I would say that I am with the majority of people and walks for mew and the dogs are precicely 'off duty' time.

>I would say that I am with the majority of people and walks for mew and the dogs are precicely 'off duty' time.

I'd agree that walks are for relaxation for me and the dogs; we're all off duty.

Hi All,
my dogs just mad me so ANGRY TOO!!!!  Excuse me while i let out an almighty scream ---------------------------- Thats a bit better,
Holly Molly i must be off my trolly iv kept my girls only puppy and now have 2 EBT,
just went on a walk and as Dill posted earlier

>>Most terrier owners I know say that their dog's main aim is to make them look like an fool, and I'd have to agree  <<<

ME TO  i feel such a fool right now and am about to go over EVERY inch of these posts to try and change my girls very BAD behaviour,
in a big open space just now and this women came walking thu the over grown grass she must have been taking a short cut or somthing as its normaly very quiet where i go ,
she had a limp and was clearly disabled in some way so what does my girl do ?
oh yes she scoots off in the direction with pup closley following her straight over to this hobbling women and jumps all over her knocking her to the ground , dispite my calls my dogs im affraid had a deaf moment i grabbed pup on the lead he went helped the digruteled women to her feet appolagising all the while the women went on her way thank goodness she see a funny side and was unhurt,
my girl on the other hand then decides shes going for a second go And i new she was going to do it but before i could grab her she'd darted off again i swear she was having a laugh at me today,
i finally got her back but this is the last straw for her now i have to make a firm Stand as i DONT WANT PUP turning out like this it really spoils the walk makes me not want to go out with her shes always been like this but i did think she was better now but shes just shown me that she will do what she wants when she wants and i cant have that,
now my rottie on the otherhand is a diamond you can walk ANYWHERE with him off a lead the lot and he dont bother about nothing he's with you 100% its a pleasure to walk him,
im off now to scroll these posts and find an answer to how ideal with this before i go insane! whooops i forgot i got 2 EBT'S now i must already be insane ;-)

I would say that I am with the majority of people and walks for mew and the dogs are precicely 'off duty' time.

I feel that that is why there are so many problems with dogs going "deaf" on walks and therefore problems with recall which can not only be a nuisance but dangerous when roads etc are involved, and this also results in dogs running over and bothering other dogs and people because dogs are off duty doing their own thing while owners do their own thing.  For me personally work should equal play and play equal work with dogs and walks should be about interacting with your dog and having fun.

If people want their dogs to be off duty (and I guess everybodys definintion of what off duty is would be different) on walks then that's fair enough but that is in my experience part of the reason their dogs, terriers and the like who have high drives will go deaf because they are entertaining themselves not because they are to be expected to go deaf or can't be trained to the level of reliability of other breeds.

I too am very angry at my almost year old wheaten terrier. For the second time this week he ran off when he saw a couple walking towards us. They were obviously on a 'date' and Murphy duly jumped all over them. It didn't help he had just been in the canal and was wet and filthy!
When I finally managed to grab him I belted him on the rump and grabbed his beard and said 'bad dog'.
I was shaking with rage and my dog walking friend said I was a bit harsh and her dog only ever had had a 'tap' on the nose!

But when he ran off the other week and I couldn't find him at all, a neighbour luckily saw him near a main road and put him in the car and took him home. I felt sick with worry!

The implications of what could have happened doesn't bear thinking about. Also in this day and age you could get sued for almost anything (dry cleaning I'm sure would be one) and unfortunately not everyone out there loves dogs..........even well behaved ones!

At home I can get him to almost jump through hoops on fire. I train him every day and have done from when we took him home at 11 weeks old.  But recall..........No!

I have tried food, toys, sonic things, even a vibrate collar! Nothing works.

Loyalty does not exist in Murphy's world.

I do not want him to have a life attached to a lead and I hate those extending ones, still have the scars to remind me!

So anyone any ideas before I resort to being branded a 'dog beater'!

I would consider having him neutered but would it really help? He doesn't have any other doggy traits that I would say he needed neutered for so this really would be a last resort!

Please help someone!!!

I been working really hard with my dog since she embarrassed me the other week..
Got to say its really paying off.
Though I will never 100% trust her fully , after all she's a bull terrier!....
But I am pleased with her she seems more interested in me now than she was the other week I feel like I got more of her attention than I had before when we're out she don't pay to much attention to the people a mile away from us like before ,
I also find she's better of a lead if I take her own her own just me and her ,
When I have my other dogs she will still try to slip away but more of a "I am testing you are you watching me" kidda creeping over to strangers, where as before you blink she's gone!!

So I think she knows I have to just keep instilling the Techniques I been using working well for my girl ,
BIG THANX (((((KARENCLYNES))))) For the great tips I found my girl really responds well with a lot of what you said clicker works great for her, xxx

God bless our Axel he went missing a week ago then Sunday he turned up in our garden clearly he'd been hurt rushed him to our vets but sadly he died ,
He loved my Ellie and she him, I drive up to the house today and I am looking for that fluffy ball to meet me like he does every day but then I remember he's been cruelly taken away , we planted a rose bush for you today in spot where you used to lay,
rip my special fluffy friend we miss you loads already xx

So sorry for your loss, you must be going through it :-( Glad things are going well with your training though, clicker training does it every time :-)