Can anyone help - I'm at my wits end.

My girl had a litter of 9 - they have all gone now except the one we have kept.  She is now 11 weeks old.  She is totally not learning the whole toilet thing.  I have never had a problem in the past, but this is a nightmare.  She just wees and poos in the house all the time.  I am doing everything I should be doing - take her into the garden after meals, when she wakes up, after play - at least hourly all day.  But still it has no effect.  Sometimes I take her out, walk round the garden with her, then we'll come in and she'll wee on the floor.  Sometimes she'll have been outside and it will be a second wee, or she won't have gone outside.  Sometimes she goes and I think 'ok she's been' and then she'll go again!!  Poos is the same - just goes anywhere.  She just has no idea at all.  The house stinks and I'm getting desperate.

Possibly you're little one has been too used to going anywhere since she was born and raised there .....  The bitch puppy I kept from own litter took a bit longer to get the hang of house training, especially in the early weeks and I believe it had to do with this coupled with me being exhausted by then :)

It will get better - you just have to spend more time at it and no matter how tired or frustrated remain up beat every time she gets it right.  As for garden trips, cold, wet, windy or whatever, it's best to stay out until they actually have relieved themselves than give it up as a lost cause only to have them perform as soon as they come back in (easy said of course but true >sigh< )

Make sure you use a command word at exactly the right moment too - timing is everything.

At 9 weeks she wont have anything like control over bladder or bowels for some time yet but a week or two of very intensive observation on the family members should get over this initial blip coupled with 100% clean up after accidents so that there are no inviting smells to attract her to the wrong places.

HTH, Teri

I'm with Teri on this one. All of my last litter were clean within days of going to their new homes due to the regime I'd had before they went. The one that stayed, however, decided that it was still ok to go to the loo inside the house. She took ages to be clean, even though I was very diligent and cleaned up quickly. I was at home most of the time so there was no reason for it, she just didn't realise that the house was not a public loo ;-) In the end I thoroughly cleaned every floor with a steam cleaner and closed all doors, except for the one to the kitchen, and watched her like a hawk. She got there in the end.

>The house stinks and I'm getting desperate.

There it is in a nutshell I think ;)

You need to clean up the wee/poo first, then clean up with Bio wash liquid - I use it in a spray, leave a few minutes to work then dry that, then a quick spray of white vinegar and wipe that, then leave to dry.  No smelly house and no smells to 'cue' pup into using the house instead of outside ;)

I have laminate floors everywhere downstairs where pup is allowed, regular use of my flash spray mop filled with Bio wash liquid keeps the whole area smelling sweet :)

I still have a 5 month homebred pup who forgets housetraining (wees not poos) when the weather is foul tho ;)  it all takes time and perseverance ;)  I limit access to my living room, close supervision only there so I can spot when she needs to go out.  If I'm busy she's behind a baby gate in the kitchen with access to the garden.

On the same topic our 18wk old pom X chi pup is more or less getting the hang of weeing outside but has absoulty no clue about poo's , she poo's putside with us taking her out but even if the back door is open unless I mind read she will poo anywhere indoors. she is usually restricted to the kitchen unless we are watching her every move, she is crate trained and that works fine has gone through the night since day 1 and often has to be oersuaded out of thecrate fater 12hrs without going.
Any tips.
PS She is not my first dog  but the first toy dog we have had and I know they can be a problem but I diot wanted to ignore it.  

I am quick with the mop and have laminate floors so it isn't smelly carpets that are the problem.  I think the smell is just everywhere - in the air - because she is going so often.  She also goes when she's excited, which is very often.  If I leave the room and come back in she does it, or when I come downstairs she does it. 

Even with the back door open, she still wees indoors.  She seems to do hundreds of little wees, rather than fewer big ones.  I mean loads - sometimes 4 or 5 small wees an hour when I would have thought she should be doing one bigger one.  She is a large breed but is doing lots of wees the size of the bottom of a cup, or smaller.  She does sometimes do big ones (bigger than dinner plate size) but more often than not it's these small frequent ones.  Went out tonight for my birthday - came home and my daughter had cleaned up 1 poo and at least 8 wees, then I cleaned 4 when I got in - had only been out a few hours :-(

I will carry on like I'm going because I can't see that I'm doing anything wrong - maybe she is just slow to pick it up.  I think I will take her to get checked too in case she has an infection or something that's making her go so often, but looking back over the weeks, she has always gone in the house much more than the others did.

After 11 weeks of so many puppies and so much work I was looking forward to having just the one and getting going with the training and taking her out etc, but this is wearing me to a shred and stopping me from enjoying her like I should be.

Hi (and Happy Bday for yesterday!)
Apologies if this has already been asked, but are you crate training her? It sounds as though she hasn't learnt the feeling of holding her wee in, so just goes every time she feels the need, hence the millions of little wee's. Might be worth a shot if you haven't tried already. Good luck!!

Yes, that makes sense.  It is as if she hasn't learnt the feeling of holding her wee in.  She has got a crate, but I don't use it that often - she goes in it to sleep of her own accord and I do shut her in sometimes for very short periods - when I mop, for example.  To be honest I've never used a crate before so I'm not too sure how it all works - how the best way is to use it.  She is happy in there - she takes toys in and eats and sleeps in there - with the door open.

If she likes to be in her crate then that is a fantastic start. Maybe try putting her in there with the dorr closed when you are still in the room, just to get her used to being a bit mroe confined. If she is ok with this, then just use it as her little den when you can't be watching her 100%. Make sure the crate is just big enough so that she can stand, turn around etc comfortably, but small enough that she can't use a corner to wee. She should then start to think twice about weeing straight away, as she won't want to mess in her 'playhouse.' I would still try and take her outside every hour, some people don't recommend carrying them outside, but I think it is ok especially if you is being a bit of a problem child.

If you don't crate her at night then definitely start. I left mine from 7weeks old, all night (large breed) and she was absolutely fine. Saying that, my overnight is 6 hours max! This means that during the night they have the option to cry and ask you to take them out (which I personally think is ok) or just hold it until morning. It can be very trial and error and depends on the pup and how you feel about it as well.

Also maybe trying searching 'crate training' on here and see what others have said in the past!

Hopefully you will start to see some positive results when she learns how to hold it in for just that bit longer!!

Crossing fingers and toes for you!

**sorry meant 'she is being a problem child' not you!!! .. trying to post too fast!

Thanks Stormy - that is very helpful. 

I haven't been putting her in the crate at night because I don't want her to start weeing in there - which is what I think will happen.  I know people say they don't soil their beds, but when her siblings were still here someone was doing it and I think it was her!!  Since they've been gone, she's been sleeping in the hallway with her Mum, but if it will help with the wee problem, then I am happy to try putting her in the crate at night - I think I will come down to a wet bed, but I will try it tonight.  Just bought her a new bed for the crate though - do you really think she won't wee in there?

She sounds like she probably will! I think she has got in her head that she can just wee where ever she likes, which can be hard to break. I would definitely try the crate, make it nice and small so if she wee's it's not going to be very comfortable. Some people may disagree, but she needs to learn. If possible, put the crate somewhere where you can hear her, as going from nothing to crating all night is a bit over the top. If she cries, pick her up, take her straight outside and use your command for toilet. If she goes give her huge cuddles etc and then carry her back into the crate. Make sure she doesn't learn that crying = cuddles and fun, it means wee time, praise and then back to bed.

You are going to need to decide a plan and stick to it. She might not like being in there and away from Mum, but as she is toileting everywhere I think you need to take the hard line. Make sure the bedding in the crate is easily washable... I used really old pillows underneath some large bath towels. All can just be thrown in the washing machine. I can understand you don't want her weeing in her crate... but better that than all over your house right??!

Give it a go, I don't know one person who doens't recommend some sort of crating. All I can say is, don't give in! It will work evetually.

It's really upsetting me.  She has just spent ages in the garden playing, did at least 2 wees, came in, spent 5 minutes indoors and did a wee.  It's just a constant thing - every time I get up and walk anywhere - to the kitchen, the toilet, anywhere, I pass wees.

If she is doing so many frequent wees, is there a chance that she might have a touch of cystitis? May be worth popping her down to the vet for a quick check-up.

Oh my god.  I am so worried.  It was a nightmare.  I decided to leave things last night as the kids were going back to school this morning, so I didn't want to rock the boat and was going to start with the crate tomorrow night.  BUT for some reason, she decided to go totally strange last night.  She has slept in the hall with her mum since her last sibling left about a week ago.  It was working fine, but last night she whined and screamed like mad.  I tried leaving her, but she was winding her mum up and they both ended up whining and scratching at the door and trying to eat the bottom stair.  (Her mum was trying to get away from her to go to sleep in peace).  I decided to take the opportunity to try the crate as I couldn't do anything with her in the hall.  So I put her in her crate, and things went from bad to worse.  It was worse than whining - it actually sounded like a person being murdered.  I left her a while but not too long because I was worried about the neighbours - it was gone midnight by this time.  In the end I let her back in the hallway and after some quieter whining and wimpering she did settle down til about 6 this morning when she started again, and I got up.

What am I doing wrong??  I've never had this with a puppy before.  How can I crate her if she is going to make so much noise?  I'm dreading tonight.  I now have 2 problems - the weeing and this.  She happily goes in the crate to sleep during the day, but when I shut her in last night it was horrendous - honestly, I have never heard such a noise.

Please help.  I'm so upset about it.  I don't know what to do.

Im sorry i havent got too much time to do a lengthy responce but first of all - dont panic!! That worry is gfoing to be transferred to the pup and you need to keep things as chilled as possible.
I wouldnt just put her in the crate at night, especially if that is when she kicks up, but throughout the day put her in their. Gradually increase the time.
First of all put her in there to feed and shut the door. Leave her for 5 mins and walk out the room. Build up the time and also leave the room or even go and stand outside so she is used to the quiet. Perhaps put a towel over the crate so it is darker and more tranquil plus she wont be distracted or want to join in on what is going on outside the cage.
It sounds as if you are doing a grand job and if pup is already used to the crate you are halfway there :-)
I have had great success with the crate. However mine was better with toileting but again you are doing the right thing so just persist.
IM sure others will be along soon to give more advice.
x

Ah you poor thing. Take a deep breath! Firstly, as suggested above, a vet check will put your mind at rest about any medical reasons for her to be weeing so much. Once this is done keep going with the crate. My girl screamed the house down for two nights, then when she reaslied it was getting her nowhere, just went to sleep. As I said before, try and get her used to the door being shut gradually when you are there during the day so when it comes to night it isn't a huge shock. Maybe do a couple of fake bed times too... ie put her in the crate an hour before bed, let her out 5-15mins later as long as she is quiet, do again as many times as you like... this might help her to not 'freak out' at bed time as she thinks she is being trapped! Also you can try putting a towel over the top of the crate (make sure there is still airflow) so she feels nice and secure. Also, where is the crate? I would put it in the hall with her Mum, so it's similar to where she is used so sleeping for now.

This method will work, but if you let her out (or even speak to her) when she screams she will learn that screaming=out/attention. If you absolutely can not leave her to scream as your neighbours will cause a fuss, then leave her in the crate, door shut, but maybe quietly sit with her. You really need to try and only take her out if you think she needs a wee or she is being nice and quiet otherwise you are reinforing behaviour you are trying to eliminate.

One other thing that might be hampering your progress is her attachment to Mum. Maybe she still thinks her mum will clean up after her? I have no experience with Mum and pup situations, maybe someone else can advise?

And lastly, don't get worked up over it (easy to say I know). Once you have had the vet look her over (hopefully with no probs) you will know it is just a behavioural thing that you need to correct. If you get upset, she will know it. If you feel guilty/worried when putting her in the crate, she will sense it. Sounds like you have loads going on so don't put too much pressure on yourself. You will get there in the end!!

Fred's Mum... you beat me to it! Glad we are on the same page... it's a fantastic method, some dogs just take a bit of coaxing!

Thank you for your kind responses. 

This morning when she had her breakfast in there, I closed the door - she was fine.  Then she went in it to go to sleep, again I closed the door - she noticed but went back to sleep.  I opened it again before she woke up so she wasn't whining at the time - I hope that was right.  I have now given her a kong in there and shut the door again - she is happy with that, and I will open the door in maybe 10 or 15 minutes before she starts whining.  I also shut her in the crate when I popped to the shop and when I came back she wasn't whining - just sitting there looking at me when I came in, so all this is very reassuring.  It seems to be just night-time she kicks up. 

I'm not keen on putting the crate in the hallway because it's always been in the living room and that's where she goes to sleep - in the hallway she probably won't go to it of her own accord.  But the trouble is my wall to next door is in the living room so at night I worry about the neighbours.  I think that's a good idea about doing a few pretend bedtimes.  I need to get her used to me closing the crate door and leaving the room, don't I - with her knowing that I will come back and not thinking I've gone forever.

I feel a bit calmer about it all now, but I'm sure tonight I will be crying and at my wit's end again.  When her brothers and sisters were here they all used to sleep in the pen in the living room, so she is used to sleeping in that room - the hallway has only been the last week or so.  I will try the crate again tonight but what do I do if she screams and screams and screams - with the neighbours??

You are doing great! All positives from today so that is a brilliant start! While you are doing your random 'lock in's' today, try one time to leave the door shut until she wakes up. When she cries, take her out for a wee, then back in with the door shut again. See if she cries. If so, this is good practice for you to ignore her when it's not night time and hopefully it won't upset ur neighbours too much. I would personally not worry about your neighbours for a couple of nights. You have a pup that needs training and I think that is mroe important! Let her scream just for one or two nights... you may well find she will get tired and fall asleep after an hour or so. Don't let your worry about tonight effect her... treat it like any other time of the day. Don't forget to put a towel/blanket over the crate tonight... I really think you should give it a go.. and if she screams the house down you can make it up to your neighbour another time. I say be selfish for one or two nights to see if you can get this process to work? Do you think that sounds reasonable?

Go round and warn your neighbours what you are doing. The worst she is going to do is cry for an hour or so - no worse than having a newborn baby so im sure your neighbours can cope with that.
Be strong and get some ear lugs if neccessary :-) Just dont give into the pup otherwise its a slippery slope!!
You're doing great so far!

Right, I will try again tonight.  Just need to decide between hallway and living room!

I have made an appointment with the vet for tomorrow morning just to check nothing else is going on.  The weeing tiny amounts thing has only been going on the last few days.  Also the weeing when excited thing.  I took her to my mother-in-law's a couple of weeks ago - wouldn't dare risk it now.  It was fine then - I had total faith in her - she did a wee before we went in and I didn't worry - even with carpets!!  I just don't know what's gone wrong :-(

How did last night go?? :-)

How was it?! Hope it all went well :-) :-) :-)

Hi, well yes it actually went really well.  I decided to leave the crate in the living room.  I made sure she was really tired in time for bed - took her for a walk, played with her etc so that by 10.00 she had been awake for hours and was exhausted!  I put a stuffed kong in the crate and she went in after it like she does, and I just calmly shut the door, turned out the light and left the room.  I did leave the tv on very low as I thought this might help (a bit of sound as well as a bit of light).  It really felt like I had a newborn baby lol - took me back a few years - I lay in bed hoping and praying.  After about 10 minutes she did start whining - presumably when she had got bored of the kong.  She whined and wimpered (not the awful screaming noise like the night before) for about 20 minutes and then went quiet.  The next thing I heard was my daughter getting up at 7.00!!! 

She had wee'd a bit in the crate - not a full wee, just a little bit.  I took her to the vets this morning and he's put her on antibiotics.  He said that urine infections are very common in puppies and that it would explain the problem starting after her being so much better with it all before.  So I am just crossing my fingers now.  Me being typical negative me is thinking that it isn't a wee infection and the tablets will do nothing, and that last night was a one off and tonight she will be screaming again lol.  But I am trying to get my positive head on and think good things!

I still don't know why she was so awful that night.  I think maybe being with her mum wasn't helping and also being in the hallway near the stairs - I think she just wanted to come up them to me - I guess in the living room in her crate the temptation of getting to me isn't the same. 

I also put her in her crate today for a sleep - she looked at me and whimpered while I swept and mopped the floor.  Then I went in the kitchen to make a sandwich and when I came back she was asleep.  She is still in there now - awake and chewing a chew with the door open - when she gets up and comes out I will take her for a wee.

Thanks for your help.  I will keep you posted.

You have made so much progress in just 2 days, you should be over the moon! There is no reason that she will be naughty tonight, unless you get all stressed and she picks up on it!! If there is a chance she has an infection, it might be worthwhile getting up to take her out for a wee in the night. It isn't ideal, but if she is uncomfortable then it's not fair to her. It will also hopefully mean that she won't wee in her crate which is ultimately what you want to achieve.

I am so happy for you!! :-D

Well done - you've sorted out both issues in a few short days.
Onwards and upwards :-)  keep us posted :-)

Well she has just got up and walked straight to her mums bed (that she uses as a bed too) in the hallway, squatted and wee'd on it.  She had just been for a wee in the garden too (5 mins earlier).  Why on earth would she go and do it on a bed?  Was a new bed too and the inside part won't go in the machine.  God :-(

> Why on earth would she go and do it on a bed

Because it smelt strange and new, so she has marked it with her scent so it smells right to her.

Sorry, when I said new I meant about a week old.  Both her and her mum have been using it - sleeping on it.  I noticed wee on it a couple of days ago but thought she had just dribbled (like she does when she gets excited) but this was actually going there for a wee.

Anyway, I just don't understand it all.  She was good again last night - only a little whining.  She was crated from 11pm to 7am.  I decided that I would come down and let her out if she whined, but she didn't and when I came down at 7.00 she hadn't wee'd.  I took her out and she did a wee so this proves that she can hold it, so why millions of wees all day all over the place.  Just weird isn't it.

Hi again! I am glad the crating is going well.. it's a start! I'm not sure what to suggest now, as she seems to think that she can just go where she likes. I used a playpen for my girl (as well as a crate) so she wasn't cooped up in a really small space, but I could monitor what she was doing. It sounds like your girl has too much freedom to roam the house, especially if she doens't understand that weeing inside isn't acceptable. Maybe consider a play pen for her instead of letting her run free in the house?

At the end of the day... she is still a baby and some just take a bit longer than others. I had to keep reminding myself my girl was only a bub even though she was bigger than half the dogs in the park! You are doing great, just keep up with the crating and make a huge fuss of her when she goes outside. If you ever need to vent your frustration with her, PM me... don't take it out on her as she will just get upset and probably wee more (not that you would, but I know how hard it can be)!

Keep us posted!! :-D

Please, please try not to worry about your girl going for a pee on the dog bed. My youngest one will do it even now if I dont get her out quick enough after waking up from time to time as have a few of the others, they do grow out of it.  Better to have a couple of sheets of vet bed that you can throw into the machine an dry in an hour. You are doing great. I have to admit its frustrating my guess is that they learned to pee on a soft surface in the whelping pen and don't outgrow it right away but it isn't the end of the world. 

You're doing great really you are!

Thanks so much for the encouragement.  Things are getting better - I'm so pleased.  She now sleeps in her crate every night.  She whines for about 10 minutes when I put her to bed about 11pm, but then she is quiet til 7am - with no wees.  When I come down and let her out she wees a bit (which she does pretty much whenever anyone makes a fuss of her) but I know puppies do that sometimes.  When I take her out she does a wee straight away.  She is weeing less round the house too - I definitely think she must have had an infection, because since the antibiotics the little wees have got much less.  She is still doing it a bit, but there aren't millions everywhere like there were before.  She still hasn't realised that she can go to the toilet on walks lol but I guess she will sooner or later!

So I really feel like I'm getting somewhere.  Thanks so much for all the advice - I'm so glad I've done the crate thing, and so grateful to you for recommending it to me.  She is as good as gold in lots of ways and I'm very happy with her - she sits when asked, straight away, she gets off when I say off (usually!) and she's good when I take her out.  She's so funny when we're out walking - she sticks to her mum like glue and copies EVERYTHING.  If mum eats a bit of grass, she does.  If mum sniffs something, she does.  It's really sweet.  I'm really enjoying her more now.  Thanks everyone :)

You have made my day!  I am so glad that she has improved this much after such a small amount of time. Your hard work has paid off and I can only imagine she will keep improving!! It does sound like she had an infection, so a good call from lincolnimp who pointed it out.

All the best to you and your girls :-D xx