I can assure you, Hayley, that I'm not adding to the problem of dogs in rescue centres.  If any that I have bred need rehoming for whatever reason, then I am responsible for doing that.  They do not end up in rescue centres!

Just following on from you ridgielover, not at you ;)

How can any of you say for certain that not one of your pups have ever ended up in rescue, general or breed rescue? Do you keep in constant contact with the owners, regardless of if they move home etc, and visit on a fairly regular basis to ascertain that they still own the puppy up to and including many years later until the said puppy is old and eventually pts? To me, this would be the only way you could be totally certain that your puppy has not been moved on....this is a question not a statement, :) , and I wonder what you think of this?

Not taking offence :)

I don't breed very often so even though my breed tend to have big litters, it's not difficult to keep in touch with owners.  In recent years, the majority that I've breed have gone to people who've had them from me before, so that makes it even simpler.  I've just had to rehome one that I bred 6 years ago.  She's settling in beautifully in her new home - I visited last week :)

:-) No I know you weren't but just thought it was worth posting the information.

Responsible breeding means taking responsibility,which means taking back any dogs rather than them ending up in rescue.

thats if you are aware that the dog needs a new home not all people contact the breeder when they no longer wish to own their dog, if they did then there wouldnt be so many dogs in centres would there

> thats if you are aware that the dog needs a new home not all people contact the breeder when they no longer wish to own their dog, if they did then there wouldnt be so many dogs in centres would there

You are right it could happen that a buyer would not go back to the breeder but by and large it is a lot easier for them to do that that anything else.  The dogs ending up in rescue are not, in the most part, those dogs that people have put in because they don't want to go back to the breeder but those whose breeders are not interested.  That's why there are so many dogs in centres, BYBs.

thats if you are aware that the dog needs a new home not all people contact the breeder when they no longer wish to own their dog, if they did then there wouldnt be so many dogs in centres would there

Obviously that happens but the point is (according to that study) for every one dog bred the right way there are 9 bred the wrong way so for every 10 dogs in rescue 9 have been bred by people with no business breeding.That is a huge difference to the numbers wouldn't you say?
I have bought two pedigree pups in my lifetime and both times it was emphasised to me that at any age they should be returned to them (the breeder) for whatever reason I needed to return them.Why would i not have done that?

But the responsible breeders dogs should come back to them for re-homing so not contributing to the dogs in rescue centres.

For the very occasional dog that slips through the net the good breeder permanently identifies their pups so that a rescue can trace them back to the breeder to take responsibility.

Those on this site who work in rescue can confirm that the Back Yard breeder does not give a hoot and doesn't take their breeding back.

> what about the lady who has that king or cavalier king charles spaniel? hes a champ and has been used at stud after having the test and it showing that he has that health issue?

I wouldn't class her as a responsible breeder though.Just because someone shows their dog does not make them a responsible breeder.

i certainly travelled to mate my bitch. a 2 hour drive each way and help from me, stud owner and grown up son at the mating and then the same thing 2 days later

In Response to charlie72
Just because someone shows their dog does not make them a responsible breeder.

thank you :) at last someone who doesnt think you need to show to be able to breed dogs properly

That's not what Charlie72 said, Hayley.  Charlie72 said that not all people who show are responsible breeders but made no comment on those who breed but don't show.

> and whos to say that health tested, parents shown, breeder knowledgable pups dont end up in rescue centres? just because some one is a good breeder doesnt mean that there pups are any different to the ones other people breed,

Yes it does, because if they are a 'good' breeder they will take more care about where the pups are placed and, most importantly, take responsibility for those pups if something does go wrong - so they won't end up in rescue.

In Response to ridgielover

ah right sorry but isnt the rigde on a rhodesian ridgeback a form of spina bifida?

That's just a bit off topic, Hayley123.  There's been a thread all about "that" programme and it was discussed on there so feel free to look it up.

Interesting way to choose to respond to my post, though!

Hayley,
Thats enough now...
*passes a cuppa* have this and think on a wee minute, you know that has been covered on another thread and answered.

Being deliberately provocative really isnt going to help anyone now is it. (aimed in general not just you)

MMMMM we are not exactly on topic either. However we are getting to the stage of ever decreasing circles me thinks anyway :-(

In Response to satincollie

MMMMM we are not exactly on topic either. However we are getting to the stage of ever decreasing circles me thinks anyway

i agree but this does always happen it is funny (not he he) how all topics relate to different topics

>Just because someone shows their dog does not make them a responsible breeder.

>thank you :-) at last someone who doesnt think you need to show to be able to breed dogs properly

Charlie72's statement does not mean that at all.  I think you need to read it again.

> In Response to charlie72
> Just because someone shows their dog does not make them a responsible breeder.
>
> thank you :-) at last someone who doesnt think you need to show to be able to breed dogs properly <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" height=10 alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" width=20>

That's not what I said at all.I do think you need to prove your dogs worth by showing or working.If you show but don't health test that's irresponsible,if you breed but don't show that is just as irresponsible.To be a responsible breeder you would need to do all the things responsible breeders should do ie. show/work,health test and have knowledge and experience(or an experienced mentor).I certainly wouldn't buy a puppy from anyone that didn't breed responsibly.Why would I knowingly support a backyard breeder?

> if you breed but don't show that is just as irresponsible

Caveat there would those that breed for breed purpose? In my breed most are shown but many are to compliment a team/teams in harness. To be honest dogs that dont race dont fare well in the ring under breed judges.

I didn't have time to edit,I did mean show or work as stated in the  previous(and later) part of my  post ;) "prove" would be a better term.As someone stated earlier there should be a reason for a litter to be bred rather than wanting cute pups for their own gratification or even worse for £££

> im also not sure that every one who uses a dog at stud would even know about this rule so honesty wouldnt come into it

I knew about it - and I have never bred a litter or used a dog at stud in my life.

Say you are driving at 50mph. The speed limit is 30. You get stopped. The argument that you did not realise what the speed limit was does not hold water. It is something that you have to be aware of. And it says on the forms, so all you would have to do is read them....

>a bitch is mismated by the owner's (not very good) dog
>yes this could happen if the owner also had a dog but if they didnt then i really dont see how this situation could come about

It doesn't even have to be the owner's dog - it could be a good way to pass off a random mongrel litter.

>That's why the honest stud owner has to witness the mating to be able to sign the registration form
>im also not sure that every one who uses a dog at stud would even know about this rule so honesty wouldnt come into it

It's clear on the litter registration form - nobody's stupid enough these days to just sign a form without reading it, are they?

> and whos to say that  health tested, parents shown, breeder knowledgable pups dont end up in rescue centres? just because some one is a good breeder doesnt mean that there pups are any           > different to the ones other people breed,

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/1623

SBTs are 4th on the list of most popular breed by registration in 2007, approximately a quarter that of labradors. In that case can you explain why rescue centres are predominantly filled with staffies and their crosses, if not by back yard breeders breeding unregistered dogs? Or do you really think that all the KC reg Staffs are ending up in rescue, but the other breeds are not?!

I know I am new to this site and have zero knowledge on even owning a dog yet. I understand where a lot of the posters are coming from.... You all have so much experience. The way this thread has gone has put me off ever asking questions again. However well meaning some of the posts are it wasn't necessary a lot of the comments! don't add fuel to the fire if it seems people are getting offended. This is only my opinion!!! Its a shame as this site has a lot to offer.

I think this thread has probably gone far enought now so I am closing it