My friend, a new dog owner went to her first dog club, she was allowed to join the novice class immediately. 

I rang her to find out how she got on:

The head trainer was a military type, a right show off.  He told the pupils that he'd been training for 20 years and his 12 week old puppy knew far more than their dogs did and that they were useless.  Every dog there was on a check chain - this is apparently the collar of choice at this club and also pinning dogs to the floor was a matter of course, even went on during lessons, by the trainers, they even manhandled the owners.  My pal was also advised that her slightly nervous aggressive dog (a staffy sized xbreed) would benefit from a[ Mastiff or a Rottie pinning it to the floor to get over his nervous aggression with large dogs.

I told her to not go back and find somewhere that offers reward based training.  The club she has now found has a waiting list and I said that was a good sign! I also said she should pop along without the dog and see if she likes the way the classes are handled, get to know a few people before her classes start - without the dog.

I am actually horrified that this sort of club is still in existence.  :-(

Ugh, how awful. I am still a bit unsure about one of our trainers that advocates the squirt of water approach to barking terriers. If only there was somewhere you could report this awful old fashioned clubs - getting over nervous agression by having a Rottie pin the dog to a floor, OMG!!!!

I have a GSD 13 mth and when I got him prefered classes were suspended for 3 mth (illness) so I went to look at another........Ex police, 'qualifications' were 'not found' on google. 16 dogs in class so overcrowded for hall, boy was sitting level with back of my seat but not behind it, got told 'don't let 'her' hide make her sit in front. He also went on to take a spooky BC from mum, drag it up floor like a mop and then try to man-handle it to lie down, his face was about 4/6 inches from dog.........I sat thinking Go on Have him!!!.
needless to say I didn't go back. He stopped doing classes about 3/4 months after so I don't know if my wish came true :-)

getting over nervous agression by having a Rottie pin the dog to a floor, OMG!!!!

Can the trainer not see this is looking for the two dogs to fight?  OMG.

This trainer pushes things way to far, and it would be best to get your friend out of the class ASAP, or she will have her dog ruined!!!!! 

I am still a bit unsure about one of our trainers that advocates the squirt of water approach to barking terriers

I have heard it deals with the fact that if you yell at the dog to shush up, then you are giving it attention.  Even though it is negative attention, it still is giving the dog what it wants. 
The squirt bottle idea, is that you dont make a noise and all of a sudden they are blasted with water (which they dont like, all of a sudden to have water hit them), and then it is a correction. 

I personally, dont use the water bottle, and tend to ignore barking (until it gets to much).  If that happens, I tell the dogs to shush up.  But I do know people that have used the squirt bottle, and have had it worked.  I did try it once, and my dog looked at me, barked again as if to say "thats supposed to phase me?"  Never again, did the water bottle come out.  

I remember years ago, I took my Fathers 5 year old doberman x lab to dog training for a laugh really I was only 17. She was very good but could be a bit scatty. I went along for a couple of weeks and Kelly became the star pupil bless her. Then one evening the normal lady who took the class was away so this local man who owed a pet shop and owed and breed GSD came to take the class for her. First thing he did that set my heckles up was come up to Kelly [my dog] and start roughing her up in a "friendly" manner and this man was right up to her face, she was terrified of him she looked at him strange and I seriously thought she was going to snap at him! Never in her life had she ever been aggressive! Then he got this ladies springer spaniel puppy of about 4 months put it on a thin red lead right up over its back of its head bit like old Cesar Milan does with nutty dogs ! The poor puppy started screaming the hall down and this man just started making the screaming pup walk up and down everyone looked on in horror until the owner turned to him and said "John I think that's enough now" and grabbed her dog away from him and took off his lead he had put on he was selling those leads apparently- you could of heard a pin drop with the awkward silence that came over the place! He never again came back I'm glad to say !

> My pal was also advised that her slightly nervous aggressive dog (a staffy sized xbreed) would benefit from a[ Mastiff or a Rottie pinning it to the floor to get over his nervous aggression with large dogs.
>

Yeah like that would work!! :( , how awful.

> My pal was also advised that her slightly nervous aggressive dog (a staffy sized xbreed) would benefit from a[ Mastiff or a Rottie pinning it to the floor to get over his nervous aggression with large dogs.

Sounds like the best recipe for disaster :(

>they even manhandled the owners.

I'm appalled at this, why would they even need to?  It might help them understand how a dog might resent it, but I can't think of any other reason to manhandle an owner :( 

I have actually used the water bottle on Henry, he hates it, and now I only need to reach for the bottle for him to stop whatever he's doing. But I'm not 100% sure about our trainers using it on a dog they have only seen at class once or twice, they can't be sure how that dog will react. But then they are much more experienced than me so I guess they know what to do!

That is awful. I actually had no idea 'trainers' like this existed. Why would anyone want to use someone like that?!!
Unfortunately the novice owner may look at the TV and Cesar Milan type programmes and think this trainer was good because they use the same type of methods! You can only imagine whats going to happen later down the line with these poor dogs and poor owners that do the best, go to training classes and still end up with an uncontrollable fearful timid dog. Such a shame. :-(

I took my BC to training classes for the first time last night. He's a 7 month old rescue dog. So glab i did a class well run is such a learning curve.  I have found out that it is me that needs the training not the dog lol.

I certainly would not be going back if it was anything like the class mentioned in the post.

> have heard it deals with the fact that if you yell at the dog to shush up, then you are giving it attention.  Even though it is negative attention, it still is giving the dog what it wants. 
> The squirt bottle idea, is that you dont make a noise and all of a sudden they are blasted with water (which they dont like, all of a sudden to have water hit them), and then it is a correction. 
>

With my own dogs/breed the water works well as they are not upset by it too much but generally dislike water.  the idea as I see it is to break in on the behaviour and be able to tell them to do something else or reward for silence.

If you waited for an Elkhound to stop barking without being told you might get grey hair as they are bred to track game and keep barking for as long as it takes to get your attention, so ignoring them is not going to work!!!

To have dogs that do not bark unnecessarily it is important for me to prevent it becoming a habit in the first place.