hi there. ive just mated my little bitch with a fantastic stud who has proven himself on many occasions. the mating took place 2 weeks ago(2matings both locked for 30 mins) so at the moment i have everything crossed that it was sucessful. this is my little girls first mating so if any of you have any tips and advice i would be very grateful. we are treating her as if she is pregnant although she is very spoilt anyway.

Wishing you Luck with the birth. Interested as to what health tests Yorkies should have?
Angela

good luck and i do hope all goes well ,my girl had her litter 2weeks ago ,dont want to frighten you at all but if u look though all my posts you will see some things that can go wrong ,not saying it at all !!!! but its always a good idea to know a much as you can so if your faced with anything you know how to cope with it !! this was my girls 3rd and last litter ,her others where fine ,but this one as left me draind emotionly and phisicly (sorry carnt spell lol)
my girls not a yorkie but im sure things happen no matter what the breed is !!
read and read as much as you can !!!!
and if you have a good mentor all the better !!
take care and all the very best xx

you cant mention the breed its advertising!

I hope you have an experienced mentor in the breed as toy breeds are not easy to whelp and rear.

When you say the stud is fantastic and proved himself many times do you mean he is a top winning dog?  If so I would take advise from his owner if they a re also an experienced breeder and exhibitor. 

If your going to keep a pup to show then they will be able to advise you on which pup to keep etc.

Have you mated the dog you refer to in your other post thats a year old?
Angela

At just 2 weeks after mating you will want to treat the bitch as NORMAL with normal exercise, normal feeding etc. You don't start to increase the food until 5-6 weeks gone.

I agree with the advice Brainless and MarianneB have given. :-)

hi no i havent mated my year old  the one i have mated is 2 1/2 yrs and its her first litter. i only mentioned the other one in that post as she is not much more than a pup and i wanted to highlight how good my staff is with her.

My girl is 6 weeks now, pregnancy has been confirmed, i have only just changed her on to puppy food and started feeding slightly more, shes has a very large full tum so i am giving her 4 small meals a day as thats all she can handle, everything else we are doing the same as before she was mated, shes still exercising and doing everything the same.

Hope all goes well with your girl

thank you for your reply i hope all goes well with your little girl keep me informed. ive got everything crossed that my little girl is expecting.  nikki

I would highly recommend that you beg, steal or borrow 'The Book of the Bitch', read it fully and then read it again, it is like a bible for breeders. Get yourself a mentor and of course build a relationship with your vet too.
Good luck with the puppies

I am interested to know when people say a 'proven stud' what they mean. Do they mean the dog is proven to be fertile, proven himself by winning in the show ring or to my mind what should be meant, proven to produce good, strong, healthy progeny who have grown to be good examples of the breed. Apart from that the stud's lines should also be proven to combine with the bitches lines without producing any unwanted traits.

As far as I am aware it just means proven to be fertile, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!

There you go then, I have always thought of it as meaning proven to produce quality pups.

>As far as I am aware it just means proven to be fertile

Yep, that's what I've always thought it means too.

Me too

and me too !

I always thought it was all of the above.  That he has proven himself in the show ring (gotten his CH), proven to be fertile, and proven to produce quality pups.  Maybe I am just a bit to picky????  But I wouldnt breed to a non CH, and I wouldnt breed to a dog that doesnt produce good pups, so I guess for him to have produced good pups, then he has to be fertile........lol

Proven means proven to produce quality pups ie pup that are either proven in the field or show ring.

[quote]But I wouldnt breed to a non CH...[/quote]

May I ask why not?
To me there are too many variables to becoming a champion.  There are some dogs and bitches highly deserving of being a champion but are never given the chance for various reasons.  Owners new to showing and not part of the 'breed elite', animal not bought from the breeder, oh and a few other reasons that people would try to refute, but it goes on in the judging world and it's well known, but not admitted to.

There are some dogs and bitches who do not take well to the show ring for one reason or another and don't make champion, but are excellent examples of the breeds.  Their owners think too highly of them to make them do something they are uncomfortable with.
Why would you not include their possible contributions to the gene pool?  Gene pools in some breeds have become wading pools and could use an infusion.
In my breed I know of one particular bitch who was not a champion, she did one show only, but she went on to produce no less than 5 champions from her progeny and many great, and great-greats.  She had excellent attributes and obviously passed them on.

Personally I am not influenced by a solid red pedigree.  To me it's health, construction, and above all, temperament.  If a non champion has all I need to compliment my bitch, I'll use him.

Crespin is not in the UK where the title of Champion is gained by only a small minority of exhibits, in her country the title of champion is almost a pre-requisite to show the dog is a good specimen.  If I am not mistaken it is like the USA where dogs don't have to competed against existing champions to gain their awards towards their title and often dogs become champions as young puppies.

Also it must be remembered that a dog has the same genes before it becomes a champion as afterwards. In fact the title Champion means that a (hopefully good!) dog has been campaigned - if it hadn't been campaigned it would still be the same quality dog, just without a title.

I agree with marri,

A top person in my breed had a fatastic bitch, who would show outside the ring, but inside just refused to show (tail between the legs). Although she was regarded as one of the best specimens in the breed by the owner, who had made up numerous champions. she stopped showing her, but intended to breed from her.  She went on to produce many champions.

I have seen many dogs in the ring who are champions and you wonder how they ever got their title.  I would say that marri has it down to a tee, look at the dog as well and don't make judgements just based on its champion title.    

>I wouldnt breed to a dog that doesnt produce good pups

Someone has to use a maiden stud ...!

> But I wouldnt breed to a non CH, and I wouldnt breed to a dog that doesnt produce good pups,

Marri, I was just about to question that too but in the US & Canada, it is a lot easier to win titles than the UK and even easier in Australia & NZ - so a dog with a title isn't a rarity.

My first litter was from a maiden dog & bitch, neither of them remotely near a title and yet they had a Sh.Ch. daughter & RCC daughter.

Someone has to use a maiden stud ...!

Exactly! I've had a litter from a dog that had never sired pups. After I used him he became a Champion, and also sired another litter. He's now the sire of 2 CC/RCC winners. But he's still the same dog as he was when I picked him to use. :)

Personally I would use a stud which complemented my bitch and had the strengths I wanted rather than one with a title. A titled dog does not atomatically produce champions - he has to be put to the right bitch. All puppies have 2 parents!

i dont believe this is right IMO yes i know that you own stud dogs etc but i and most other people feel that it means proven to produce pups not good workers or good show dogs, just produces pups and that is it

Must say that when I was in the market for a stud I was interested in what he had produced and what his predecessors had produced was not at all interested in what he did in the show ring or even if he had been in the ring. Health, temperament, and a pedigree that complemented my bitch and the ability to pass on his finer points at least to some of the pups.

However for a first time breeder who may have a limited experience then to choose a stud that others consider to be a good example, i.e. show success then providing he was health and of good temperament, would probably be the only way to go along with the bitches breeders help of course.

May I ask why not? (in regards to not wanting to use a stud that isnt a CH)

Yes, I would say it is a bit easier to get a CH on a dog in Canada, than it is in the UK.  To become a CH in Canada, the dog needs 10 points, three different judges giving these points, and you need to have a multi point win (2 or more points in one show).  So, you cant just get a CH by one point at a time. 

The reason I use CH, is that they have already proved that they are good quality dogs.  They have correct movement, temperment, and structure.   A judge (hopefully) is not going to award winners or best of breed, to a bad dog.  I also breed for temperment, health, structure.  But a CH (with health tests) gives the best bet to get that at this point. 

I do agree, that there is a lot of really good dogs out there that never do get their Championships, for whatever reason.  Maybe an injury, which caused more white hair than allowed.  Or they didnt like the show ring.  I dont dispute that at all. 

In regards to puppies becoming Champions, yes it happens.  Happens quite a bit.  You can enter a dog in a show at 6 months of age, so thats 6 months of showing to get your CH.  But, I never choose a dog based on what it looks like as a puppy.  If I am interested in the dog, then I look at it at the age of two again, and then use my judgement.  Have actually loved the way this pup looks, and then when a see it at two, hate the dog.  Lost all movement, to leggy, whatever. 

But in some breeds, like mine, a lot of min pins dont get their championships until they are close to two, sometimes even not until they are 4 years old.  There isnt the competition, so its harder to get a CH on a min pin, then say a yorkie, or poodle. 

And I am not saying, that non champions dont produce great pups.  The dog I am looking at, as far as getting my next pup, her dam wasnt a champion, but the pup looks amazing!  And I love her temperment. So I am highly considering a pup out of her.  

I know many kennels, with many Champions in them.  So the choice is not a hard one, as far as CH.  I dont have to go far and wide. 

But maybe someday, if I see a dog I really like, then if it isnt a CH I may still use him.  But for now, I will stick with what I am doing.  I just havent seen a dog I really like that isnt a CH. 

Also, a lot of contracts state that a dog can not be bred from unless they are a champion.  Some even go as broad as just "titled'.  But if my contract states that, I think the parents should both be champions of that pup.  That would be kinda hypocritical if I didnt. 

So do you only breed from Ch bitches too?

So do you only breed from Ch bitches too?

Yes, all my breeding bitches are Champions

so what about if you had a stunning bitch with everything you looked for in your breed but she just hated the ring, would you not include her in your breeding program because of this?

Not judging just curious!!!

It is hard to imagine a bitch of good temperament "hating" the ring rather than just finding it rather dull and uninspiring but if she came from a line that had met general approval in the show ring I don't think it would matter too much if you looked to her offspring to prove itself rather than her.  To never show is something different.

As you probably know, over here a dog becomes a Champion when it's won three CCs (basically that's being Best Dog or Best Bitch in Breed) under three different judges.

>In regards to puppies becoming Champions, yes it happens.  Happens quite a bit. 

Although we too can enter puppies from 6 months of age, however many CCs they win when under 12 months (and that's quite rare) they can't become a Champion until they've won one after 12 months.

When you consider that existing Champions also compete on equal terms for the CCs (no 'Champions only' classes), you can see how much more difficult it is to make up a Champion here.

so what about if you had a stunning bitch with everything you looked for in your breed but she just hated the ring, would you not include her in your breeding program because of this?

I would probably try to get her titled in something.  Like maybe a CDX in obedience.  Or temperment tested.   Something to show that this dog is a good dog. 

But I havent had the problem with showing dogs, none of the dogs I have ever shown, have hated the ring.  I have never been in the situation to have to make the call.

Although we too can enter puppies from 6 months of age, however many CCs they win when under 12 months (and that's quite rare) they can't become a Champion until they've won one after 12 months.

When you consider that existing Champions also compete on equal terms for the CCs (no 'Champions only' classes), you can see how much more difficult it is to make up a Champion here.

I can definately see how much harder it is for the dogs to get CH over in the UK.  I am learning as I go, and I have still a lot to learn, about how the UK does dog shows. 

I think, in some ways (from what I have been told not only in this post, but other ones) that the UK does seem to have a better way of showing dogs.  You do see pups over here, that get their CH at 6 or 7 months of age, but when you go to use them as stud, or even as a dam, then something about them isnt desirable.  So many things can change between being pups, and 2 years old. 

I know many a breeder, that will say if the dog isnt done its CH by the time its a year old, then its out of the ring.  I dont agree with that at all. 

My show dogs, stay in the ring, even after the CH is earned.  I do special them, and yes, they only go in for breed judging, so its a bit different.   Even the oldest one, who is 5, is still in the ring.  Only once and a while, as I am currently showing two other dogs, but she still goes.  And she has taken Best of Breeds since she has gotten her CH.

When you consider that existing Champions also compete on equal terms for the CCs (no 'Champions only' classes), you can see how much more difficult it is to make up a Champion here.

Not to mention that we do not have CCs at every championship show for all breeds. In my breed it is just 8 shows a year. All the other shows count for nothing really. If the same dog and same bitch got CCs at 3 shows each (although 2of our ticket shows only have ONE ticket, for BOB), that still means the absolute maximum number of new Champions in the breed per year would be 4.

>Even the oldest one, who is 5, is still in the ring.

My breed is known for its late maturity, and even veterans (7 years +) can win the CC.

The other thing that deliberately makes it harder to make champions here is that the opportunities for competing for CC's is rationed so as to ensure when they are on offer there is a decent and representative entry.  They are able to do this because compared to USA/Canada/Australia we are a relatively small country.

My breed is numerically small as it is in USA.

We have 19 sets of CC's a year, and you would expect at least 40 to 100 of the breed competing for the two CC's on offer at that show.

This year we have have had 14 of our sets issued already.  Our top winning male has won 7 of those, and the remaining 7 have been won by 5 other dogs of which 3 were already champions, so only two non champion males have won CC's this year.

In bitches 11 different bitches have won the 14 CC's of which 5 were already champions, and one gained her title this year.

We would expect between 3 and 6 new champions to be made up in the breed each year.  Annual registrations for the breed are around the 100 mark, and I would say about 25% end up in the ring..

A dog I bred who has 2 CC's and won a RCC last year (Top winnign dog won the CC) is goign to be 10 in November and is still competitive in the Open dog class.

It is quite common for Veterans to win top honours and most dogs in my breed that gain their title don't gain it until 3 to 5 years of age, and soem late maturing ones later than that.  A champion under 2 years old is pretty rare.

> Not to mention that we do not have CCs at every championship show for all breeds. In my breed it is just 8 shows a year. All the other shows count for nothing really. If the same dog and same bitch got CCs at 3 shows each (although 2of our ticket shows only have ONE ticket, for BOB), that still means the absolute maximum number of new Champions in the breed per year would be 4.

And our breed entry numbers are so much bigger than the US/Canada/Australia/NZ.   In some breeds we can get class numbers of 40+, that would be the whole entry in other countries.   The UK is the most difficult place in the world to title a dog.

In our breed the  KC have been taking tickets from us almost every year.  That hurts.
Ours also is a slow maturing breed, for the most part.  There are some lines that do mature faster than others.  Those will do their winning early on and disappear from the scene.
Then again, there are the ones who mature slower and are still be showing and winning at age 9 and sometimes into double digits.  Waiting to use them until they've made champion at that age is not on.  Obviously fertility is an issue in dogs and bitches are past it.

In the case of a bitch, well most breeders in our breed agree, a bitch very often matures after a litter.  Up to then they can look like a perennial puppy.  Some will breed a bitch to, as they say, finish her, then put her back in the ring.  Many times this has resulted in her obtaining her title in short order.
I had a bitch who was never mated.  I started with a new vet and she was to have an op so we were in for a prelim.  He checked her over, her heart, eyes, mouth.  As he was about to draw blood his assistant asked me how old she was.  I told her 12, going on 13 in 3 months.  The vet stopped what he was doing, looked at me, took his stethoscope and went back to the bitch.  He again reexamined her all the time shaking his head.  At the end he told me he never would have put her at that age, he had thought she was 6 years old, maybe 7 at the most.  She remained young looking until about six months before she died at age 16.

I understand there are people who won't use a dog or bitch unless they have the red, but I can't use that as the guideline.  Any prospect in my book must fit the criteria in construction, health, movement, has the strengths where my bitch or dog needs improvement, has the lines that compliment.  And very importantly, have the temperament desirable in our breed.

Also some dogs/bitches who produce excellent offspring never make it to their titles. My foundation bitches parents produced 5 champions from 2 litters (my girl couldnt quite get the elusive 3rd CC and finished on 2cc and 1RCC, so it could easily have been 6) yet neither parent won a CC themselves.

I'm at a loss to understand the 'only champions' rule for breeding and can see reasons why that could lead to problems particularly in breeds of low numbers. Why would a responsible caring breeder over look a dog who's pedigree and attributes were the best for a bitch just because his owners had chosen for what ever reason not to show him.

The practice of all breeders using the top winning dog or the 'in favour' stud has in the past lead to changes in an entire breed and not always for the better and the available champion is not always the best dog for a particular bitch and may not be the best stud for any bitch one has to look at the background and what the dog is actually passing on.

A dog can carry the attributes that are required by the bitch but not show them himself, it has been proven on many occasions that it is perhaps the grandfather or g grandfather one should be looking at not the stud himself.

> To never show is something different.

was that a little dig there isabel?

i dont think it is that hard to imagine as i know a couple of dogs that are fantastic and go round the park/garden for their mum superbly, but put them in the ring and they just dont cut it!

I dont hide the fact that i dont show and thats my choice, but i just dont see where people make sense of ONLY breeding to champions, titles are great of course but are certainly not the be all and end all of a dog, dogs should be matched for what they can produce TOGETHER.

> was that a little dig there isabel?
>

If that was addressed to me, no, was not a dig at anyone and who is Isabel?

no nova not you, the post earlier from isabel :)

>To never show is something different.
>was that a little dig there isabel?

No, all very straight forward.  I did not want you to take what I was saying as being the same as not showing at all.

>> but i just dont see where people make sense of ONLY breeding to champions, titles are great of course but are certainly not the be all and end all of a dog, dogs should be matched for what they can produce TOGETHER.

I don't think many breeders in the UK restrict their choices to only Champions.