Hi all, I have many dogs myself and my 11 year old niece has always shown one of my dogs for junior handling since she was little.  She now wants a dog of her own and her parents agree.  They have had bernese mountian dogs before (last one past away earlier this year) so know they can handle brushing, daily care etc.  She handled my dogs as they were smaller while she was young.  The only brief I have been given is medium size but not a table dog and fluffy.

Anyone got any ideas, they are prepared to go on a waiting list for the breed they want.  She has looked at my breed standard book but says they are all lovely.  We are trying to narrow down a list before going round at some of the shows to get an idea of the breed itself.  I am thinking something like a spitz breed or a chow.

Any ideas would be great.  We are in no rush as she can continue to show mine in the meantime.

Thanks in advance

Emma

What criteria do they have for a breed to LIVE with?  Character/temperament/energy levels/trainability/'look'    no matter how often the dog is shown/handled most of the time it will be their pet ;)

My son (10) is beginning to handle the Bedlingtons, I was going to suggest one until I read 'not a table dog' :-) 

What group would they be looking for? Will she be travelling to shows with you? If so I would start looking at breeds in your own group so that you don't have to stay over if you go long distances.

Character/temperament/energy levels/trainability/'look'

I would say energy levels medium to high as the are an active family
Trainability - Easy to medium, she has helped train my young ones in the past.
I think temperment and character are so varied even in one breed that we will look for a suitable character when we have narrowed it down a bit

What group would they be looking for? Will she be travelling to shows with you?
Im in hounds so you usually have hounds and terriers to together at most champ shows.  But her parents are really into showing but have never had a dog worthy of showing so I dont think it needs to be my group as they always travel to the shows seperately, no room in my small car with all the crates.  Not that many fluffies in hounds :) .  But one breed has just sprung to mind, not exactly fluffy but has a coat.  Basset fauve de bretagne. I will be seeing them tomorrow while at leicester open, maybe have a wander round to try and narrow it down a bit with them.  Likes and dislikes, etc

Keep the questions for them and suggestions coming

Emma

I wouldn't calla fauve fluffy :-) Elkhounds and Finnish Spitz have more coat?

Yeah not fluffy but has a coat compared to a smooth breed.

Elkhounds, hadnt thought of that one

Emma

What about a Beagle?   You see lots of JH's with Beagles.

I recommended that but not fluffy enough

Emma

What about one of those Portugese Podengo's?   You get them in smooth & wire coated I think & they are certainly small enough to be caged & for a JH.

Well I am biased, but my own dogs were handled by my daughter from 10 years of age.

They are a breed that does well in variety classes, is double coated but not feathered so easy to groom, wash and wear coat. 

We have had over the years a fair number of Junior handlers in the breed.

Well I'm not biased Barbara, but I too would  go for an  Elkhound, never met a well bred one with a bad temperament They have lovely characters too. Not overly big but not too small either

I love the Elkhounds too and it does sound an ideal choice.

Love the Portugese Podengos too though and they are on my wish list for the future!! Got to be wire haired for me though! :-)

What about something like an Irish Terrier, or an Airedale?  They seem to be good dogs (I have limited experience though, only seen and met them at shows).  They do have energy, some work to the coat, but not excessive like a poodle. (sorry poodle people - but you gotta admit, a poodle is a lot of work). 

Medium size as well.

Thanks all for the suggestions, i will point out a few examples.
So far on my list to try to find and watch at the open show tomorrow and champ show on friday is
Elkhound
Basenji
Chow
Japanese Spitz
Wheaten terrier

Hi crespin, i used to own and show airedales, but they along with the most square breeds have already been struck off the list before I even stated as I recommended an irish and that went down like a lead balloon.

I think the front runner (in my head anyway) is the elkhound so far, always been near them at the shows and seem like an energetic but sensible breed.  And of course the all important fluffy factor. :)

Is there any basenji or chow owners out there?  If so what are like to live with?

Emma

If she wants something a bit different, what about a Finnish Lapphund, Coated but not too horrific to deal with ( I would suggest Swedish Lapphund but very few are being bred and they are still Import Register). club site here

Thats another one for the list, nice to have the slightly different factor, i shall keep an eye out for them.

I think she is going to be spoilt for choice!

I can see me attending club shows for every breed but my own for the rest of the year :-D

Emma

Am I right in thinking Basejis are not good with other dogs?
Sorry if I've got that wrong:)

Eurasier?

Am I right in thinking Basejis are not good with other dogs?

Not sure, they have always seemed calm when I have seen them.  It would be an only dog.

Thats a good question for an basenji people out there??

Eurasier?

Another one to look out for.  This list is going to be a long one. :)

Emma

Norweigan Buhund - good size - great temperament - quick learners -or indeed a BSD  - Helena Hutchings (one of this countries greatest Junior handlers) rose to the top handling Belgians  - they are so quick to learn and have great 'stage presence !'

Yvonne

Well the NECGB Club Open show is at Ryton on 27th September.

How about springers or setters? The Welsh springer particularly would fall into 'medium, not table, fluffy'?

Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier - Lovely-looking dogs, but I have found them to be a bit 'confrontational' with other dogs ;)   compared with my Bedlingtons that is ;)   could be a bit harder for a JH ;)

Just thought - if they want fluffy - what about a KEESHOND ???   

> Am I right in thinking Basenjis are not good with other dogs?
>

I have lived with Basenjis all my life.
They can be difficult with other dogs, I have 2 that are not too keen on other dogs and 1 that is but she is only 8 months old so could change once she has had her 1st season like my older bitch did.
They are a very clean breed so are very quick to housetrain. They don't have a doggy odour to them. They do get bored very easily so can be destructive if not given enough mental and physical stimulation. They can be a bit deaf off the lead so need to be excercised well away from traffic and livestock as they can chase and be out of sight before you know it like many of the hound breeds.
I have also lived with Norwegian Buhunds who are a delight to own apart from the moulting and barking!! I did a lot of junior handling with both breeds while growing up and out of the 2 I prefered the Buhunds as they are more biddable to handle than the Basenjis were, which is probably why there was more child handlers with the Bu's rather than the Basenjis.

Well we have just got back from leicester open and the list has changed a little after talking to some owners
Good possibles
Elkhound
Keeshound (had 2 next to me most of the day, great faces)

Others she still wants to meet before deciding
Basenji - but will mention what CALI2 said about the chasing and the selective hearing
Borzoi - New one on the list, might be too big, but not sure if they are particularly strong for their size

I think her mum (my sis in law) is more excited than my niece as she cant wait to have a go at showing as well.
After today unless another dog steals her heart i think it will be the keeshound but going to do a lot of research on the top three and then make a choice.

I will keep you posted

Emma

If she likes elkhounds and keeshounds, how about a schipperke? Might be a little too small for her though?

I'd got for a Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen myself (in fact, I'd love to!).

M.

What about a Shiba Inu?

The shiba despite their looks are not an easy breed for a youngster, very independent and stubborn, fine for a very experienced patient one though.

One of our posters has both Elkhounds (that her daughter handles very well) and Rescue Shiba's so can give an idea.

Emma, Keeshonds are fantastic with children and make great JH dogs all my children have handled them and now my grandaughters are wanting to show.
the coat is not as hard as you might imagine.

if you want to ask any questions just ask me.

Whats wrong with Spaniels? they can be aglity, hunting, obediance trained not a show but a worker. Lovely size and devoted to their owners.  Im biased I have a show but I have a friend with a worker thats being gun trained he's a beauty!!

Which spaniels do you mean, Cocker, American cocker, English Springer, Welsh Springer, Field, Clumber, Sussex, Irish water or the whole sub-group ;)

Yep working cockers, field,Welsh, Clumbers would be diffecult to get but Spaniels as a breed are good, but show Cockers would come under fluffy I think. I love them all !!! Might change my non de plume to spanielMum.

Have you considered a Dandie Dinmont? Fairly fluffy, hardy, lovely easy-going temperament, great with kids and other dogs/pets, reasonably easily trainable for a terrier. One of our vulnerable native breeds.

Well I'm spaniel mad too but from the OP's shortlist she is clearly into the spitz types, so each to his own. I did suggest Welsh springers or setters, cockers would be table dogs which they didn't want. :-)

Yes thats why I felt no to cockers show type but working cockers are a great little dog one of my cousins is a game keeper he trains gun dogs, he had a beautiful spaniel (which was stolen) but swears that workers are great gun dogs, not table types at all. In the spaniel hadbook they have many that have obediance and agility certificates. Im sure that every home should have at least 1 spaniel, but I am biased.

Emma, Keeshonds are fantastic with children and make great JH dogs all my children have handled them and now my grandaughters are wanting to show.
the coat is not as hard as you might imagine. if you want to ask any questions just ask me

Hi all, it looks like the keeshond is winning.  She has been on the internet constantly since monday reading about different breeds and I think her parents have been just as bad.  They were over this morning for a visit and dogs were all we talked about!! I am going to force them to have a look around at birmingham city to make sure.  But i warn any keeshound owners\showers\breeders you may be seeing more of us over the next few months :-D

Thanks for all your help.  I now have a niece, brother and sister in law who cant stop smiling.

Emma

come and see us on Sunday we will be at Birmingham   8956 is one of my bench numbers you are more than welcome to see my lot.

> Borzoi - New one on the list, might be too big, but not sure if they are particularly strong for their size

I don't think they are ideal dogs for a child to own to be honest. Although mine have always been great with my nieces and nephew I've never allowed them to walk the dogs. Yes, they have shown them in the odd junior handling class and the dogs behave well in the ring but I was always at the ringside in case they need rescuing. If the intention is for your niece to own the dog and do everything for it herself then I wouldn't recommend a borzoi. While they may look elegant, quiet and gentle and very easy to handle in the ring, out on a walk they are very different - they are hunters and can be very strong on the lead when they see a cat/rabbit/small dog etc. Off the lead you have to be very observant to make sure you see potential prey before they do - else you won't see your zoi for a while till it either catches or loses said prey.

come and see us on Sunday we will be at Birmingham   8956 is one of my bench numbers you are more than welcome to see my lot.

thank you keesy8, i shall try and find you.

Emma

> Yes thats why I felt no to cockers show type but working cockers are a great little dog one of my cousins is a game keeper he trains gun dogs, he had a beautiful spaniel (which was stolen) but swears that workers are great gun dogs, not table types at all.

My uncle has a working cocker who is training to be a gun dog and she is totally fab. To me (and my untrained eye) she looks like a smaller version of my English Springer but with more almond shaped eyes. I think she's beyooootiful :-)

> Im sure that every home should have at least 1 spaniel, but I am biased.

I have to agree :-)

Edited to add - I'm agreeing to the spaniel thing - not the bit about you being biased, lol.

Im definately both biased and a spaniel admirer, the working cocker has a better coat (less fluffy) still silky but with loveley ears. My Show type takes me ages to groom this time of the year. saturday he smelt too doggy - bath, sunday he went swimming and rolled in cow pooh - bath, Monday OH took him out fox pooh - bath - he's the cleanest dog I know shares his Pantene with my sons g/friend. But I am going grazy with the grass seeds and sweetheart things. He comes straight in looks at the grooming box, out onto the picnic table for a groom then dinner, better trained than ever the kids were!! I find the springers have a wider head, the workers are narrower headed with a larger soft mouth, shows are softer all over with that domed head and soft mouth. Springers have the best of both with a much wider head and smaller jowls yes?

Have you thought about a Samoyed?? It was a breed i did look watch at one point.
The only thing for me was the grooming side of things, which was more than i wanted to take on at the time.
They are very friendly and have not come across an aggressive Sammy.

If they have had Bernese before would they not consider another one?? They obviously like the breed to of had a few before. Yes they can be stubborn, but when moving they are so light on their feet to move around the ring.

> But I am going grazy with the grass seeds and sweetheart things

Are sweetheart things those little cone shaped thingumys that weave themselves into fur and have to be painstakingly untangled and pulled out? If so, they drive me crazy too! And if I don't get them all out I find them all over the house and they stick to everyones socks. sometimes Oscar's ears are so jammed up with them that it looks like he's wearing his ears 'up' in a hair do!