<There is an article in a dog mag that lists alot of the breeds and their health probs and has a contact detail of someone high up in the breed, in my breed i know the said person well. It says the health issues in my breed are......vWD! Nothing about,Bloat,HD,ED, eyes, heart etc but who buys these types of magazines? US lot!! doggy people, not general public.>

Exactly! Put the ads in TV listings magazines, general magazines, literature aimed at the general public and yes, TV adverts!

I'll back your oscar nomination (lol)!

I don't think the cav was fitting though, i think it was just writhing in pain from the SM.
I couldn't quite understand why the boxer owner hurled himself on top of the fitting dog, a very dangerous and stupid thing to do, and i'm not sure that should have been shown.

I have posted this on both threads.

I think this program has had a bigger impact than I first imagined as I am currently expecting a litter of pedigree dogs which I only bred because people were asking to go on a waiting list for one of my dogs.  So I have decided I could do with another dog for myself as well.  My bitch is due anytime now, hence the bags under my eyes from being on nightwatch.
I test my dogs for PRA even when it isnt my coat type that has the issue, all my dogs are DNA registered with theKC so consider myself to be doing the checks I can.

But I have had 4 people call me today, thankfully on a day off!  Two to say they would still have a dog from me regardless of the programme, One wanting reassurance about the health screenings and general health of mum and dad, and one which I got a bit mad with that has said she isnt going to buy another pedigree dog even though she was the one I had down for a good dog as she was so passionate about starting to show all because of this program.  Thankfully I always have twice as many people as puppies.  But have been ringing my backups today to see where they stand.  My breed wasnt even featured so I hate to think of the people pulling out of deals in the breeds that were featured!!!

I just cant believe what damage this program is and will do to dogs

Emma and a still very pregnant bitch.

I thought you were suppose to leave them alone, convulsions and jaw movements could mean you getting bitten by accident? obviously if it was in danger i.e top of stairs, out on walks then yes by all means try to restrain but boxers are not small especially that one, which i thought was rather obese couldnt even get up the stairs. Danger is being hurt as it expressed on the vid. Also they had gotten a pup which looked not very old, they cant have been too put off?

Hopefully a little bit of pluralistic ignorance might take its place. ''Never happen to me that wont'' :-)

Casting for my advert Anyone like to play Mrs. P. Farmer
Toothless grin and b.o a plus.

Louise

> I am very offended about your advice telling people not to buy any puppies related to that cavalier, in fact i do currently have a six month old puppy who is his grandson

Did you buy this puppy knowing his grandfather has sm?

If you took an old type GSD they would be chucked out in the ring, and thats because the old type were used for working however the show type is bred for showing and conformation

I applaud your own commitment to only breeding from health tested stock, but did you actually see the movement of the GSD's featured in last nights programme.  I cannot understand how anyone cannot see the problem.  And I think this is one of the points they put across - the breeders cannot see what they are producing.

>> When a dog is fitting, is it a reflex action to whine as they have control over their vocal cords like humans do when we are fitting and are they actully in pain?

The cavalier was not fitting it was having an SM episode which can last seconds(like in Joedee's case)or much much longer

> I am very offended about your advice telling people not to buy any puppies related to that cavalier, in fact i do currently have a six month old puppy who is his grandson and he is a very healthy, beautiful dog indeed, which no signs of SM  or heart murmur sired by  his champion father who is son of that dog and is three years old and has had no problems at all. I would personally stop believing rumours that you see on a biased programme.

Sadly they are not just rumours as Margaret Carter will testify to. The kennel the sire of the dog in question comes from , Beauella Radzinski, do not MRI scan & they told me that I should not have had Loukar scanned & certainly should not have made public the fact that he has SM !! Their dogs to back(off the 3 gen pedigree on this site to a dog related & line bred to my dogs-a dog I have now found out known way back in the 1990s to produce SM affected dogs !

Margaret went public about her dog as did the owner/breeder of Loukar's sire, Volney Milo-the result is that lots of people now ignore them & think they were totally wrong & that it isn't a problem !

For Rach

It was quite clear that the poor cavalier was in awful pain and was not fitting but in the middle of an sm episode, poor wee mite.

To BevB.I thank you for your posts. I have posted a couple of days ago as a Cav breeder citing that long lived cav of mine that died in April at the age of 15 yrs and 7 months. I knew that the cavs would get focused on and I admit to not watching the programme because of this. I am so upset. I personally have always done the best I could. I am so upset because I love the breed. Sadly there will be no more cav pups from me, not because of the programme though, but because my 2 remaining are aged 8 and 6, so no more pups

yes I didnt want to mention his name but is it true what you say that they have been producing SM affected dogs? and did mrs costello tell you not to tell people your dog has SM? I didn't know this

Hi Moonmaiden

I bought this puppy from a very well known breeder, I didn't breed him myself and no was not aware until last night that his grandfather was affected with SM. Well i suppose there is no point in hiding it, it would show in the catalogue of a show i  enter anyway. He was bred by norma inglis and is out of ch.craigowl ryton and craigowl roxette and his relation to beaualla radzinski is that he sired craigowl ryton. Dare i say he is extremely similar to beauella in looks I hope not in health though

I don't think responsible breeders have much to fear. Short term there may be a public backlash, but it will not last. People love dogs and common sense tells us that there are lots of healthy pedigree dogs out there. If it makes the buying public more discriminating and careful lonterm, is that not a good thing?

In addition, surely this is the perfect opportunity for breed clubs to set their houses in order and confront the few (if the programme was accurate like the Cavalier breeder) who are breeding in an irresponsible way. Clubs of any kind are always cliquey and political and it is hard to challenge certain types of individual or behaviour, but can't this programme be used as an opportunity?

I, for one, did not come away with the impression that all pedigrees are damned and all breeders are evil. Shouldn't we stop being so defensive and just try to deal with the things or individuals we know to be wrong? I feel very strongly that the instances of that particular Cavalier breeder (if true) and the case of the Peke are utterly indefensible.

Finally, I find it really hard to believe that the KC could be so media non-savvy. You would have to be extraordinarily naiive to think that any documentary is going to be a good news story. When have any of us ever seen a doc that professed to uncover the glories and good work of an institution? I do wonder if, in part, the KC wanted this programme to raise issues that they themselves could not. In effect, to do their dirty work for them? Just a thought. 

oh no im getting stressed now :S lol

>When a dog is fitting, is it a reflex action to whine as they have control over their vocal cords like humans do when we are fitting

Some do, some don't. It's an unconscious action, just as the urination and/or defaecation is unconscious. A friend who had epilepsy used to shout during a seizure, but had absolutely no recollection of it at all afterwards.

> I do wonder if, in part, the KC wanted this programme to raise issues that they themselves could not. In effect, to do their dirty work for them? Just a thought.&nbsp;

Doubt it.  I think they were niaive but in the Richard and Judy interview Carolyn complained to Jemima that she had been mislead them to believe that it was going to be a positive programme about the work that the KC does.  It looked horribly like a smirk that Jemima gave R&J as she shrugged and said "I'm a journalist" before twisting it away from that point.
Anyone wishing to can access the interview here.

>For Rach

>It was quite clear that the poor cavalier was in awful pain and was not fitting

I think Rach was referring to the boxer which was fitting.

>but did you actually see the movement of the GSD's featured in last nights programme. 

I was astonished. I must admit I've never watched a show GSD from the rear, and to me the quarters were so wobbly (sideways) it appeared that the dog was on the point of collapse - it didn't seem able to support itself.

I completely agree with the programme that if you get a mongrel or a crossbreed you are more likely to get a healthier pup, and this is because it will have a wider gene pool. The problem with pure bread dogs is that many breeds come from only a dozen or so original animals so it is inevitable that there will be genetic problems.

On the other hand i chose to get a pedigree dog from a responsible breeder - the dam and sire were hip and eye scored which minimized likely health problems. The main reason people choose to get pedigree companion dogs is that they want a predictable animal. We knew when choosing to get a flatcoated retriever that they liked alot of exercise, were reasonably quiet and would not affect my fathers allergies too badly. The problem with mongrels and the such is that although you are more likely to get a healthy animal you have no idea what it is going to be like and whether or not it will be suited to your lifestyle if you get it as a puppy.

:)

I watched the programme, and it was as I expected it to be... :(

my main query would be, why didn't they highlight any of the breeds that HAVEN'T changed significantly by "selective breeding"...there were pics of wirehaired fox terriers I think...they looked pretty much now as they did then.....I know Deerhounds don't have a huge gene-pool, I think the most litters sired by any one stud is 7...and they are pretty much as they were.....it seems to me that they picked on breeds where they could make their point with maximum damage....

I felt sorry for the dogs depicted, but we all know that they had to find such dogs to have the shock factor. I truly hope it makes potential dog owners ask more questions about health....if it does then maybe all is not lost

surly the breed standard has hell of alot to do with this, the dogs are breed to look like it if it was wrote diffently then the dogs would look diffent? i mean the gsd what use would that be now for the job it was original breed for it with its woobly legs

I am very confused by what the KC said in the programme. One point they mentioned was that they didn't want to put health tests on dogs as manditory to be registered with them as they felt that these breeders would continue anyway.
I truly think that if they did made it manditory for dam and sire to be tested for what ever tests are needed for the breed and for them to be clear/good scores etc, then if and when pups arrive they can then be registered. If the KC won't register them due to bad scores/results then this would be good and it would mean that people wouldn't be able to show their dogs, so hence keeping healthy KC reg dogs in the show world.
If the breed clubs followed suit and i'm sure most would then we could be looking at greater things.

You hear of some people say oh well he may not have great hip scores, but he is great all over, you have the weigh up the faults and work out whats important. I personally feel that the health of any dog should be first and foremost and not passing any problems onto its offspring.

Why would people look at beauty before health in a dog, surely you can have both if its worked at.

i personally found the program last night very distressing having had a epileptic dog for three years that we could not control properly watching him fit in cluster fits is the worst thing i have ever had to watch in my life we eventually had to have him put to sleep because he was chewing his own foot off after trying everything for eight weeks my vet contacted the royal vet collage and was told that it has been found that a side effect of epiphen is self mutilation and the only way to stop it was to take him off the meds then change to another but as he was cluster fitting this was not possible as when he fitted he swallowed his tongue so we could never leave him alone. the only way to relive his pain was PTS.

i had asked the vet two years previous if it was time to PTS but they felt he felt no pain when fitting so would not do it i wish i had done it earlier as it is horrendous to see your baby going through fits pulling his tongue out and waiting quietly for the fits to end. this dog was a unregistered GSD so it is not just KC pedigree dogs this happens to but i will never be able to have a GSD for this reason.

on the other hand i was recently looking for a small breed dog for my son to show, my OB trainer recommended that we get a cavalier but when i looked for a pup even on this site i was appalled at the lack of testing take a look at the breeders advertising on here how many can you find that state they MRI scan not many?

i will not get a cav until there is more done to improve the health of these lovely dogs and if last night is anything to go by MRI means nothing if they will still breed these dog 26 time after they know their dog is affected whether it is to unaffected bitch or not i don't think this is enough it should be only clear to clear then we can improve the breed if there is not enough in the gene pool then IVF or import. the dogs that are not strong in numbers can do it they why can the cav breeders.

I am very offended about your advice telling people not to buy any puppies related to that cavalier, in fact i do currently have a six month old puppy who is his grandson and he is a very healthy, beautiful dog indeed, which no signs of SM  or heart murmur sired by  his champion father who is son of that dog and is three years old and has had no problems at all. I would personally stop believing rumours that you see on a biased programme.

to put your mind at rest why not get your dog tested? It's no good being offended or presuming everythings ok until you have the relevant paperwork to prove it. As has been stated before sadly these were not rumours but the proof was there for us all to see.I sincerely hope this does not damage the breeds reputation, as they are the sweetest of dogs.Yes it did appear somewhat anti pedigree, but again this was not totally unfounded. We simply cannot have uncaring humans putting showing before the health of any creature. showing is a hobby to be enjoyed where like minded people meet up and enjoy a day with their dogs. If the health of  pedigree breeds gave no concern, then there would be not need for such an unpleasant revealing program. You cant keep sweeping things under the carpet, and maybe the time has at long last arrived where people HAVE to sit up and take notice.

> You cant keep sweeping things under the carpet

whos sweeping anything under the carpet? the breeders you are addressing on this site are dedicated and conduct the relevent tests, usually at great expense, for the sake of their dogs

come on now the sweeping has been done for years, why do you think some breeds are in the terrible state they are in now? not by careful selective breeding of ONLY  healthy clear stock thats for sure. Sadly not all breeders are as conscientious as you. If they were we would not have been watching that tv program.

Some breeders may be in denial but the issue in general has not been swept under the carpet.  The KC has made several moves over the past few years, including funding research, amending standards, instigating breeder schemes even amending Challenge Certificates.  All open to public scrutiny.

Maybe so, So why then have we not seen a great improvement in the dogs themselves? Why are dogs barely able to stand and move correctly winning in the show ring? why are dogs known to be suffering from a dreadfully painful disease seen showing and again winning? ok  thats only a couple of examples, but how many more are there doing exactly the same week in and week out up and down the country, and as well all know winners in the show ring are then in demand as stud dogs, or in the case of bitches bred from. Yes they are making attempts to put funding into research etc, and so they should .Lets not forget who's the ones suffering during all this!!!

not me, i personally don;t breed.

however you addressed the forum, youu said 'you can't keep sweeping..." i believe- the 'you' your addressing, i.e. the forum don;t do the sweeping, they do the striving to improve

> So why then have we not seen a great improvement in the dogs themselves? Why are dogs barely able to stand and move correctly winning in the show ring?

lol, have you ever watched a show? the majority of dogs on show are of excellent health- or course there are a few misguided people and i won't suggest there is no corruption about in showing as most know the is some but thats human nature, there will always be the dodgy element letting the others down

i reckon Ronnie could be for the chop after last night :) :) someone likened him and JS to "hinge & Bracket"....they really were abysmal werent they!

Erm... watched a show?  i have been showing since 1974, so a few yes. I totally agree a majority of competing dogs are in excellent condition and health. My argument is, that to ANYONE who cares about dogs could not have failed  to have been angered by a german shepherd for one with the most terrible stance and movement { yes I in my personal opinion I consider that one particular dog practically crippled} Seen to be placed 1st at Crufts, and as also know the Cav suffering from SM once again gaining top honours.Just how does that come over to "pet" owners if it horrifies people who also show? I hope for the future of our wonderful pedigree dogs breeders/showing people will become more open and honest with each other, work as hard as they possibly can to eradicate problems their breeds may have with the help of the kennel club and AHT etc.  At least this program if nothing else has brought these problems to the fore and got people talking about it. I think we can dismiss Mark Evans as a complete idiot, shame I quite liked him in the beginning!
I am stepping down from my soapbox..... as I have had more than my say, bluntly and honestly, I feel for me to go on and on is none constructive and we will be simply going round and round in circles, and eventually ending in a slanging match which serves no purpose at all.
A good lively discussion guys.

I completely agree with the programme that if you get a mongrel or a crossbreed you are more likely to get a healthier pup, and this is because it will have a wider gene pool.

Depends on what's IN those genepools though, doesn't it? :) I've certainly had a crossbreed that had severe HD for instance.

On a positive note my beautiful cav, Tilly, lived to the age of 11 and never once had to visit the vet in those 11 years apart from her boosters.

> I hope for the future of our wonderful pedigree dogs breeders/showing people will become more open and honest with each other, work as hard as they possibly can to eradicate problems their breeds may have with the help of the kennel club and AHT etc.&nbsp; At least this program if nothing else has brought these problems to the fore and got people talking about it.

i do totally agree on this- and i also am appaled that such dogs would win but its certainly not the case for all show or pedigree dogs.

personally i think that the breeders who are doing it right should solider on despite the difficulties that may come up in homing now- after all, would we all want people stupid enough to listen to these biased reports having pups?

Having watched the programme it is fair to say that the editor has presented a very one-sided and inflammatory picture, but the aim was presumably to shock prospective owners out of just looking for cuteness as a determining factor in buying a puppy. The popular breeds are undoubtedly suffering from breeders who refuse to engage with good practice in terms of health checks, some of which can be very expensive--but desperately need doing to reduce the incidence of genetically inherited conditions. No one looking at the GSDs on film last night could pretend that these dogs were walking normally or were likely to make it through old age without mobility problems, and surely the culling of healthy puppies is not ethically the right answer to maintaining healthy, fit for purpose breeds.

I agree that it would have been very heartening for viewers to learn about the excellent and determined work being done by at least some of the breed club health committees. It's a pity that we didn't get a chance to see something of breeds where the working and show standards are still one and the same, and the breeders who take huge care to ensure their puppies go to suitable homes and offer lifelong advice, care and support.

There is constant advice from all sorts of sources, including the KC, for both puppy buyer and breeder--for example basic checks that are recommended as minimum good practice before a litter is ever contemplated. There is an excellent thread on this forum listing the considerations for any owner seeking to breed from their animals that should put off all but the seriously dedicated. There will sadly be breeders who think that a voluntary code of practice needn't apply to them, and buyers who are looking to acquire a puppy mainly for its looks without doing any effective research on the breed, the breeder and the animals in question are prime candidates for ending up with potentially unhealthy animals. Here's a suggestion: breeders who deliberately deceive buyers should have their animals struck off from the KC register. The KC should also consider prosecution of such breeders--the rationale being that as a charity its trustees by law are required to protect the good name of the organisation. By allowing its name to be dragged into disrepute by rogue breeders KC trustees are in breach of their duties and are themselves open to legal challenge.

Yes, there was undue regard for sensationalism that did the programme editor no favours (dog breeders compared to Hitler is a bizarre logic at best), but until we appreciate the full implications of the important points made last night, maybe we should accept that there is a place for shock journalism. In my opinion we now need to come back not with wholesale denials but a measured response that recognises scope for change and an acceptance that if we aren't working for constructive change we are part of the problem. 

The breeders & owners of Mrs Costello's dog father told me that I should never of had Loukar scanned & also that I should not have told anyone that he had SM & I could then of used him at stud !!

Obviously as their dog is related to Loukar their reasoning is clear. Their dog must be a carrier at the best to have produced a dog with SM & obviously the mother must be a carrier at best. Their dog's other"famous son"is MRI scanned clear but could also be a carrier via his father there is a 50/50 chance at best because the sire could also have SM as he has not been scanned

Loukar's brother who has been used at stud is at the best a carrier(his father had SM & was PTS before his 3rd birthday)& his mother must be a carrier to have produced an affected dog in his brother. Yet the owner of his brother tells people there is no SM in her dogs pedigree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>What will it result in?

Well I think the point of the exercise was that breeders will look deeply into their breeding plans and breed for health and not for the glory.

'You have to love the dream, more than you love the dog' was quoted to me directly by one breeder/shower in my breed.

How sickened Vets must be watching pedigree dogs be PTS day in, day out for the same health problems and watching their owners holding their beloved pets for the last time, weeping uncontrollably. The BBC went INTO the showring and filmed dogs moving dreadfully, at top shows and WINNING!!! No cutting room floor needed, we see that every weekend. It has become the norm. Then the BIS at Crufts sitting on an ice pack to stop it passing out, for goodness sake!! Then was operated on to breathe properly!! About time we got to grips with this situation, its long overdue. That wasn't a DOG!!! Pekes used to have legs and could run around and play!

The BBC didn't hold a freak show, then film it.....they just had to go to Crufts and another top Champ show to do that. 

Then don't start me on the KC Chairman who claimed he didnt know Ridgebacks without the ridge werent pts, neither did he know white boxers and GSD's were. I knew that is the 50's when I was a kid. 250,000 dogs registered every year his sidekick claimed, went on to live full and active lives. How does he know????? They don't register dogs deaths???????? Thats why so many dead dogs are registered as a litters sire!!

Bulldogs that can't reproduce naturally, is beyond shocking. Dallys PTS because they black spots meet. Bassetts! Well the poor things defy description to what they were. Borzois that if they were any more overshot couldn't eat. Dogs that can't breathe. The list is endless.

Hopefully this programme will make people sit up and think. Breeders are not just guardians of the breed, (and a majority are making a lousy job of that) they are guardians of every family's heartfelt love that is bestowed on their cherished puppy. I feel strongly that we should not be defensive and open our eyes around the shows and see what others see, and what we fail to. If you are lucky, get hold of some hundred year old photographs and see how less exaggerated the breeds are. Its an eye opener.  

Hi Moonmaiden

Thankyou for your useful information. He looks healthy, no apparent symptoms however I will have to have him MRI scanned at some point. I can't believe breeders would say such things to you! I wan't to know whether Loukar showed any apparent symptoms as none of my dogs have had SM.

Thankyou

Excellent post Golden Lady - and I fully agree.

Did the programme give a fair view of breeders who health test their stock? ..... no.  But then that was never their aim.  They wanted to show the public the extremes breeders (in certain breeds) were going to in order to create exaggerated traits in the mistaken belief that it creates better dogs.  Sensationalist yes, edited to show the extremes yes, but fiction.... no.

I have been reading through this and thought your point has been the only one I have wanted to say bravo for... I feel the same 100%.
I did find that watching the programme- I think many breeders now just want the rosette's and glory and don't think about the dogs quality of life.

I showed my pup when I first brought him and was disgusted at the deformed crooked toes of the bitch that won, only to be told by someone that the winner of this bitch is planned to breed with the judges male stud dog.

I also watched this programme and had to turn over at times .

Someone now needs to make a programme or series of programmes showing the public where to buy a pup from - wheather pedigree or mongrel .
It needs to include how to spot a puppy farmer , healthscreening info , how to contact breed clubs , the need for insurance , vaccinating and worming , the cost of keeping a dog , housetraining , socialisation , puppy classes etc .

Someone now needs to make a programme or series of programmes showing the public where to buy a pup from 
I would agree with that and add that they could also show what good the kc do... the investment in research etc.  But I fear it will not happen.  Anyone who saw the Wright Stuff programme on the friday before the show aired, will have seen a breeder, a vet and Caroline Kisko of the KC all give advice about buying a puppy.  All advocated seeing the puppies with their mum and ones that 'looked' lively, but not one mentioned health testing or the BVA/KC tests and to ensure parents had had these tests.  :-(

> as none of my dogs have had SM.

You cannot actually say that unless they have been MRI scanned. Sylvia Lymer is a very responsible breeder & has had all her dogs scanned, she is very open about the SM status of her dogs, unlike so many others. I was very grateful for her advice when we discovered Loukar had SM.

Ths is wny the condition is so flustrating two dogs can have exactly the same MRI scan results, one will be in pain & the other not, we were amougst the first to donate blood for the research from all 4 of our dogs & I now understand why Clare was so pleased to get 4 dogs DNA closely related to Harvey(Ch Rossbonny Cherokee of Delhaze)

>Then don't start me on the KC Chairman ..................... neither did he know white boxers and GSD's were

I know of no Boxer breeder nor GSD breeder who culls white dogs that appear in correct coloured litters not bred to produce white puppies.

This may have happened in the past when vets were willing to cull healthy puppies for no good reason), but certainly not now & I know a good few Boxer & GSD breeders. They  sell the puppies at same price as the other puppies in the litters(the boxer breeders hearing test their white puppies)& endorse their registrations regarding non registering puppies from them.

Neither are all patched Dalmatians destroyed as we have had many come to the dog training club over the years

What responsible breeders do is try to breed dogs of the correct colour & coat type & if puppies are produced that do not meet the breed standard re coat & colour place them in pet homes. I know of one Crufts BOB bitch that was bred to a suitable dog that produced just two puppies both of the wrong coat type-were they destroyed-of course not they had pet homes waiting who wanted the"inner"dog so to speak & were not bothered about the external(of course both parents were health tested)

The program did indicate that puppies that did not come up to show quality were culled willy nilly & this is not correct & finding a vet that will cull a healthy puppy just because it doesn't meet the breed standard requirements is getting harder by the year.

I asked one of my vets(who is a personal friend)if she or the other vets had watched the program & she had & thought exactly as I do-the program was to diss the KC & they do not PTS hordes of pedigree dogs because of genetic disorders. She did say that she was concerned about the number of pet dogs(breeds & non breeds)being bred from without health tests. I know another vet in the practice organises the continuing eductaion of all the vets in the practice to ensure they are upto date with both treatments available & health testing that should be done on the various breeds(& non breeds)before considering breeding. They do not push wholesale neutering of puppies at an early age either.

My friend also said she thought Mark Evans was a fool & made himself look silly on the program. My friend is a vet of long & wide experience

I have actually had some of my dogs tested in the past and yes I have spoken to Sylvia Lymer on many occasions and I who advised me to have all dogs tested. The only reason why I haven't tested the 6 month old boy is because I only have ever tested them prior to breeding them so I would only test a dog before I actually breed from him as I personally believe that you cannot say too much about a sixth month old puppy. I know that symptoms and the disease can start early but I don't see the need at this exact moment in time unless I ever had any intention of breeding from him. I am not if I would like to breed from him after finding out that he has an SM affected dog hanging around in his genetic make-up! I may seem like I don't know but I know a lot about this problem and have spoken to numerous breeders, however what I didn't know was that Costello's could even breed from their dog as beautiful as he is, knowing that he had SM and then tell you that Loukar's condition should have not been investigated into and you could have bred from him. For me that is unforgivable, as they knew the risks and proceeded and now most probably affected quite a few dogs to date. I did notice on the programme that veronica Hull was very defensive over the topic of SM asked to costello and I wonder why she got so touchy when everyone knows that she has an sm affected dog, it sickens me!

Geoff Skerritt told me that Cavaliers can & should be scanned for the malformation at 6 months, the herniation may not occur at all, but if the dog has the malformation it is better to know earlier(IMHO)than later & I quite agree with Sylvia that all dogs should be scanned pending the DNA test being available.

I have to point out again that it was not the Costello's that spoke to me it was the owners/breeder of his sire that actaully ranted at me @ Driffield Ch Sh @ Doncaster(in front of an audience)about Loukar

okay I will book him an MRI now. it is better to be safe rather than sorry.Oh sorry i got it wrong about the costellos telling, HOWEVER the costellos still knew he was affected therefore they are a guilty culprit in this situation. May I ask was this audience involving a few top breeders? oops lol just been reading his pedigree, so the sedgwicks told you that? So do you think  enchanted is affected too?

Very little culling goes on in practice for a simple economic reason, pet quality pups can be sold and if the breeder cares about the future of their breed they can be sold with a signed contract to back up endorsement. The only time breeders have generally considered culling in the past was at birth when there were far too many pups for mum to rear and some were weak, nowadays breeders seem more likely to try to rear them all and hope they survive and the homes turn up.

Any breed could have been spotlighted, glad it wasn't mine but then there is very little difference to the inexpert eye in a hundred years of the standard poodle.  Many say that a dog from 50 years ago would still storm the show world today trimmed in the modern manner. Too much inbreeding is a real problem though for the minority breeds, or minority colours in those  breeds. There was no praise for the fortunes spent by the good hobby breeder on bringing in new bloodstock benefitting everyone.

Mark Evans' less than balanced opinions are well known to the Rescues who seldom have a good word to say for the RSPCA. The blanket statement that mongels live longer is an old statistic, such dogs were few, survivors from the start as most would be put down, small in stature as large mongrels were unhomeable, and, if for no other reason than being small, would on average live a little longer. The man does not know what he is talking about. I would NEVER breed them but I have a considerable interest in poodle crosses and the welfare and health problems that they have created. So I know first hand that there is rampant HD in labradoodles and other problems in first crosses and later generations, scarcely a week goes by without someone's very well loved crossbreed pet  diagnosed with the diseases of the parent stock, Hip Dysplasia, Addisons, cancer, epilepsy etc. As I said earlier it is the same uncaring puppy farmers whose stock is behind these sick dogs so cross breeding cannot improve the health of a "breed" when the foundations are so poorly laid. While some lie about everything, other cross breeders are doing all the tests and submitting their pedigrees for analysis to the knowledgeable breeders of the parent stock and I know that some dogs have been neutered because of the high incidence of disease behind them. Good for them. It is what a good hobby breeder of any sort of dog should do.

>I know of no Boxer breeder nor GSD breeder who culls white dogs that appear in correct coloured litters not bred to produce white puppies.

They don't so much now, since they found it novel to charge 500.00 for them, (money spinner again) but they sure as eggs alsways have before that! And Dally's give birth to huge litters, and culling is pretty common. AND you heard the woman about the Ridgebacks...with the ridge (a mild form of Spina Bifida) proven....without a scrap of emotion having to find an 'old vet' to pts these healthy specimens without ridges. Shame on thes people. They should be prosecuted.

The RSPCA may not be perfect, but breeders deliberately mate dog to bitch then kill (not cull) their own puppies. Just inhumane unjustified murder of the puppies they deliberately planned.