Feeling very down at moment - this is the first chance I have had to post due to moving.  Move went very well, dog settled in without too many problems it seems.  However just changing our surroundings has really emphasised how little I really have control of her in spite of all the efforts I have made in the last 3 years.  Our last home hid so many evils.  She had almost free run of the house but couldn't get to the front door because we had a porch.  We had a large and interesting garden she had full access to.  All the signs were there that our collie was pleasing herself rather too much but it was easy to ignore.  We now have a house with a door opening straight out to the front.  Last week she made a dash for freedom when my husband left the door open.  I grabbed her collar (suddenly which must have alarmed her) and hung on when she snapped.  She came back at me quite nastily - really telling me off - that was dominance aggression not nervous aggression I am sure.  I stood very still and looked away - shocked to the core.  My husband made her lie down in the kitchen and we ignored her for some time.  All the signs were there that she has become too full of herself.  Walking off lead was always a pleasure - now she runs off to far away and comes back when she pleases.  New places get her too excited so she just switches off from me.  I could go on.  I have the Carol Price and Barbara Sykes books but trying to implement things to counteract is not easy.  She treats me with disdain and it has knocked my confidence enormously.  I can't see any way out of this and at the moment can't see any future with her.  I feel an absolute failure and don't think I am the right sort of person to own a collie or any dog for that matter.  Coupled with all of this my agility trainer  - poor man, has had a heart attack so no more classes.  I went to dog club last week for the first time and was told - right! choke chain for her we will sort you out next week.  I don't need a choke chain it will not teach her respect for me.  Sorry to go on but I have had nobody to talk to about it for the last couple of weeks. Thanks for reading this far.

Hi ceejay,

I don't know your history with this dog so can only respond on what I've read in this post.

Firstly, a house change is a huge step for everyone in the family so even though things have seemingly gone well, it's been a stressful period for you all, human and canine  :)

Secondly, don't feel alone or in any way a failure for not spotting behaviour issues - most of us have been there and done that at some point or another, it's human nature :)  When we have set routines with our doggy chums we can be led into a false sense of security and only when something unusual occurs are we likely to spot a problem, even one that's been lurking in the background for a while!

Thirdly, you mention you've been doing agility training.  That's great!!!  Huge thumbs up for that as being the case you must have some sort of bond/relationship going on with this dog or that would have been a non starter :)  Sorry to learn that your trainer is now ill but that needn't stop you doing some work with this dog, even if only in a small yard, tiny garden or patio.  Set up some agility equipment - needn't be elaborate, say a tyre, low table and weave poles.  Get your dog working with you and vary the routine - maybe some sit stays, then jump through the tyre, up onto the table, down stay release and reward.  Then turn that routine on its head, release and reward.  Then work out another routine so she doesn't get bored and keeps her mind working and focussed on you :)

Keep her on a long line outdoors or even just on a flexi and try recall and reward on that for a bit.  Don't give her the opportunity to ignore your commands and keep your spirits up meantime.

Another point - not all dogs respond to the same training methods.  Sometimes (dare I say it :-D ) we need to be firmer with a dog than normal.  It may simply be a strict, gruff vocal reprimand or it could be that you need to physically correct a behaviour, i.e. use for eg a half check collar or even a large guage check chain and use the noise of the chain when checked back to get her attention and when achieved lavishly reward her.  Being more "physical" does not necessarily imply using harsh methods - simply finding and then using a motivational method which is getting through to this particular dog.  It could even mean simply employing a training tool such as a clicker - to help mould a behaviour but still through positive methods.

I have a sensitive, very alert and high energy breed and by and large using gentle reward based training is highly successful but, just like people, they are not all the same and I have found over the years that some have a more wilfull edge to their characters than others and so in certain situations a different approach is required to attain and maintain their attention on me.

I'm sure someone else will be along with helpful suggestions particularly if you've posted looking for assistance before but in the mean time please don't "feel like throwing in the towel" for long as your situation is not unique nor are your current problems ones which can't be overcome :)

Best wishes Teri

Thanks Teri, I have my jumps, weave poles and seesaw set up here.  There is nothing else in the garden except a high fence, patio and lots of pebbles in the border.  I am doing some training with her every day - otherwise she can't sit out there for long without digging holes or trying to eat the stones!  I have posted quite a bit in the past with problems such as food guarding and fear of fireworks.  She is a brilliant agility dog and I have learnt a lot - started entering competition now.  I don't think fast enough - she is the sort of collie that gets highly excited at the drop of a hat. I have to always be anticipating what she will do - lunge at a car or another dog for instance which she has done a lot recently.  Once she has focussed in on something then the 'red mist' descends and she is oblivious to anything else.   She loves working but we can't always be doing something with her.  She is now attacking the front door whenever someone comes - she snatched the letters from the post box yesterday to my horror. I am keeping a house line on her and have put a guard in front of the letterbox.  We have restricted her in the house - she stays in the kitchen and dining area with access to utility room.  We invite her into the lounge - upstairs is right out of bounds since I fell over her on our bedroom floor last week.  - Never did that in our last house. 

Hi again ceejay,

seems you're well ahead on training etc and that's very much to your credit :) 

Has she learned to settle / have time out on command?  She sounds very much like she needs to be always doing something, which realistically you'll know well enough isn't feasible.   In my opinion OTT reaction to any stimuli is often the result of stress and energy levels (both mental and physical) being too high - not at all uncommon in high drive working breeds.   Finding the "off switch" is the key, but again each dog is different and what will switch her off (or at least drop down a few gears) may well need fine tuning.

Can you find a training class that has an accredited behaviourist who may give you some 1-2-1 pointers on her?  It may be that she is showing subtle signs of stress / anxiety / over excitement which you are missing (no disgrace, easily done ;) ) but that someone less familiar with her would spot more easily and so be better able to help you pre-empt some of the behaviours.   Indoors, IMO, she needs to find a calmness within herself and be less eager to be involved in everything - hence the suggestion of a command which she understands to mean "OK, you're off duty now". 

HTH, Teri :)

Ceejay,

I don't know how long ago you moved, but it sounds fairly recent. Could it also be that you are just exhausted, physically and emotionally with the move and your dog is picking up on this and feels she needs to take charge a bit? If she's a bit alpha she might be inclined to show her anxiety more in dominance terms.

May be completely irrelevant but I think moving is a big deal and very draining, even if we feel great about it.

I have been utterly drained yes - but her behaviour has been a lot of the cause.  I do tell her to 'settle down' but she is constantly ready to get up and go.  It takes very little for her to be very excited.  If one of us slightly raises our voice for some reason eg calling to the dinner table she barks.  Any little thing.  Yes we are both quite stressed at the moment.  My husband works at home and has had a lot on his plate which has all coincided with moving.  Not a good recipe for success with one's dog I know.  I saw a DVD on getting a dog to focus more on one but can't remember the title - nearly £30 I think not to be spent lightly.  I haven't got my computer back online yet so only get  few minutes on our downstairs one. 

I wonder if a herbal calmer and some calming pheremones might help (embarassingly, I can't think of the name right now but you can buy it in a plug in adaptor at your vet, it mimics a bitches' hormones after birth and is very calming for most dogs). Also can you crate her? Some enforced time out might give you more of a sense of control and reduce her need to take charge and restore order, as it were. I don't mean crate as a punishment area just a calm down kind of place- perhaps with a nice bone and blanket over to make it cosy and safe. Only bone if she's not food guardy- you don't need that too. A stuffed kong may suffice.

The other obvious thing is less physical running around work and more brain/scent work. Half an hour of finding things in your garden? Much more exhausting even than agility and possibly less hyper-making.

By the way, I don't know if you need her to focus on you more, it sounds like she needs to learn to switch off- do you agree? Can she/does she spend much time alone?

I know it sounds counter intuitive for a hyper dog to be curtailed but high anxiety seems to feed itself to ever greater levels. I think animals like humans sometimes have to be taught how to relax and switch off from work. She also needs to learn that, no, not everything is her business. BC's are definitely the adrenalin-junkie, driven, city-types of the dog world, aren't they? LOL

Good luck. Hopefully other BC owners can give more help (I have a driven terrier!)

OOps I see I've just pretty much repeated what Terri has said. Oh well. Anyhow the calmer is called DAP (dog appeasing pheremone)

I tend to agree with you that she is getting a bit full of herself.  I usually find re-addressing the 'domestics' cures any behaviour of this type.

With moving house you have possibly let them slip to make life a bit easier at the moment and she is taking advantage, which is a typical Border Collie trait.

I don't know if you allow any of the following, but if you do I would stop allowing these privilages.

Jumping on furniture
Sleeping on the bed
Cuddles
Stroking when she demands it.
Treat feeding unless she has worked for it.  Even make her sit and wait while her dinner bowl goes down, she is then allowed to eat it when you give her the ok.

Most of all try and keep calm while denying her these privilages.  I think you will find her behaviour improves enormously, when you feel that things are back to normal you can gradually bring them back in if you want to.

Hope this helps.
Sandra

{{{Caroline!!!}}}}}
*Gert big enormous bone crunching Hug!!!*
I'm cant add to what teri and Freelance have said (Certainly 2 posters *I* very much admire) I can vouch for Free's suggestion that mental stimulation is more tiring than physical (I do this with my Tasmanian devil Eurasier ;) who seems to have forgotten (or ignored!) she is a companion dog and has adpoted the mantle of Zena Warrior Huntress :rollseyes:)
    Sorry I have no knowledge of any use on BC's (PM MichelleD?? she'd be good for some advice or definately theemx?) But I gotta a shedload of chocolate andn a rather nice Marks&Sparks chcolate ruby port with your name on it xxx oh and a waterproof shoulder and padded shins whenever you need 'em for kicking or crying on ;)
*Hug* x

Thanks HG :-)  Sarah - she has never been allowed on furniture, beds or anything else.  She is very clever at getting attention though and lifts our hands in order to start a nice doggie massage - she will even give my hubby a nudge when he is dozing on the sofa.  She is not left alone for very long in the day - a couple of hours maybe - but then I don't think there is any harm in leaving her alone for a while anyway.  I noticed the change in her when we spent a weeks holiday with my Mum and 2 sisters and brothers in law.  It was a large house but she was stressed by it all.  While out for one walk she barged a lady who was walking quite fast.  She snapped at my Mum who tried to stroke her when she was sleeping and at my brother in law who happened to get in between her and her food.  I seem to be apologising for her behaviour all the time these days.  Yet she was good at our friendly agility match.

CeeJay,
You sound so stressed. My collie ( a rescue at 11 months) used to pick up on every little emotion from me. Even when I had PMT !!

Moving is a big thing for her and you. I would go back to basics. Make her sit,make her wait at the door etc etc.Test her thinking to wear her out .I dont need to tell you a collie needs to be exercised mentally as well as physically, AND try a spray like D.A.P by cava ,they also do plug ins. The calming effect is amazing.
Get yourself some Kalms as well LOL
Try and forgive her for being a minx, Just remind her you are boss and she is secure.

I had to give in to a choke chain in the end .I went to see a trainer who showed me how to use it correctly. Once the lesson was learnt it was just a collar!

Just realised I repeated previous posters. Must be good advise then LOL LOL

There seems to be some really good advice her from kind experienced people.  I cant add much but I do empathize with your problem. I have a wonderful Gsd but I can get very stressed easily and I am a bit of a worry bug and I am sure it has a bad effect on him too, then we get into a circle of perceived problems. I think trying to find some one around you who can support you with what you are doing may be good ie a behaviouist or  another good trainer , I find this has helped me to gain confidence.
Good luck

Thanks everyone - had a much calmer walk this morning.  I got myself a rope slip lead which is giving me much more control.  She started to lunge at 2 different dogs and I hauled her back in and growled don't you dare at her.  She responded.  She has not been off lead but gave her a bit of space.  She doesn't react to every dog - can never tell which one she will like. We will see after doing some obedience at dog club tonight.

oh ceejay! lol. Well you got good advice here which is so lovely to see.  And oh dear your first post there says it all you poor thing!  Like people say it is exhausting moving house and disruptive for a dog, not just the change of home but the whole process and your exhaustion and stress. It just takes time to settle and find your feet. They react so much to how we are feeling and don't cope well with our stress.

I think you know well enough how to train her so just enjoy uour new home and recover! I think it's be good to think of the things you really enjoy doing with her like the agility and do these things to bring the buzz and confidence back into your relationship with her.  Good luck.

I have my jumps, weave poles and seesaw set up here
That's great. It must be good to have a garden suitable to set up the equipment. Mine isn't really and I'd love to move to a house which was. If only moving wasn't so expensive and so stressful!

> I have been utterly drained yes - but her behaviour has been a lot of the cause

Are you sure though that she's not actually responding to what's happening with you?  You may not be aware of changes in your emotional state but she will.

My Mum died in April, I thought I was coping OK, even winning competitions in May.  I still thought I was coping OK and nothing had changed, but come June my dogs were all over the place, they were unable to do things in competition that they had previously done, I wasn't getting responses from them in training that I'd expect and I wasn't getting their loyalty outside on their walks. Then of course I started stressing about all that which made matters even worse!  Took me about 6 weeks to work out what was happening.  Not sure how I managed it but I got myself on a more even platter emotionally and the dogs have relaxed.  We're now back with the usual 'what are we going to do next' attitude that I'm used to in training, and we're back in the line up in competitions.  It could just be that beside the big upheaval for her she may just be picking up on the stress you've been under.

I haven't moved for a many years, but I remember how horrible it was when I did - probably why I've not repeated it since!!

Just a thought.  I wouldn't introduce too many changes to her, obviously there are things you've got to implement but just give her a bit of time, she may well be back to her normal self soon.

Oh, just one thought though ... you mentioned in one of your posts that she's very good at getting you to massage her by nudging you, even when one of you is asleep ... she's got you well trained!  That might be also just something to think about now, it might be time for you to take charge and take the initiative.  Sorry, I know your breed extremely well and wouldn't have anything else!!  :-)

I wonder if anyone goes along with Barbara Sykes theory that certain kinds of collies are harder to deal with - ie brown eyed, floppy eared, long coated are the calmest - mine is medium coated, floppy eared and amber eyes!  She is the only one who seems to think that appearance can govern temperament.

I think you have misunderstood Barbara. The dogs with a very strong work drive have light eyes & this appears to give the dog more power over sheep, however they tend to be very hard dogs to work & train, the eye colour that goes along with more biddable dogs is an amber to mid brown colour.These dogs have control over sheep & have lots of work drive but are much easier to train

The most popular coat type with many shepherds & farmers is the smooth(or close)coated dogs, even the rough coated working bred dogs usually have less coat that the show bred dogs.

The show dogs are bred to have less work drive & to be more placid, the breed standard calls for a dark brown eye & the current fashion is for massive coats & tipped or drop ears.

Prick eared dogs can be like the light eyes dogs as the look they have can be very threatening to sheep(think about the wolf yellow eyes prick ears)so can be very "hard on the sheep"

Add all these things up & you get what Barbara is getting at.

The strongest dogs have light eyes & prick eyes & not a lot of coat

The more biddable dogs are amber to mid brown eyed, the classic semi erect ears(ie folded sideways like Rjjs) & again not a lot of coat

The least strong drive but still biddable are dark brown eyes, the "show ears"& show coats

Quite logical really ! ;-)(to quote Mr Spock lolol)

Another cause for a dog going hyper is diet, if your dog is on a high protein diet that can affect behaviour.If you give a complete food gradually change to one with a much lower protein content. Also  you could try a method that calls for you to totally hand feed her yourself for two/three weeks, not just handing out the food, but getting her to work for it in some way/ sitting/standing follow into another part of room/ watching you, anything that makes her use her brain and focus on you. If the only food she gets is by that method she will quickly give you the respect you need. A bit messy if you fed meat or tripe but worth the effort, I have reccommended it to several of my members and it does work in the majority of cases.

I wonder if anyone goes along with Barbara Sykes theory that certain kinds of collies are harder to deal with - ie brown eyed, floppy eared, long coated are the calmest

I understand where she's coming from but I don't necessarily go along with her theories.  My youngster has beautiful, deep, soft brown eyes but she is a tremendous work dog. She has strength and can move the sheep just by using her 'eye', she has power but is kind on the sheep ... if you go along to the trials field you'll see dark eyed dogs equally matching light eyed dogs, you'll get a variety of coats equalling each other and even get prick and flop eared dogs winning!  My boys grandfather was an International champion ... very long coat and deep chocolate eyes to die for!

I wouldn't concern yourself over the make up of your dog.  I'd initially just try and get her into a new routine in your new home, walk on a lead/long line 'til she settles and gets used to new surroundings/friends she'll meet on walks. If she's lunging at dogs as a dog approaches put her in a sit and really praise her when she's remained there whilst dog passes (sausages help!).  Carry on with your agility training.

I hope all returns to as it was with her.

A final thought, do you clicker train her?  If you do, there are some really good articles on http://www.clickertraining.com> - if you look under the Free Library section.  There are a number about stressed dogs, and you might find some more relevant ones that may help.

I feed Burns by the way.  Just to say that I went to dog class last night and did obedience - all the agility group were away competing.  She was stunned to be walking up and down in close proximity to other dogs and she had a few lunges as did other dogs towards her.  Now I am very grateful for the trainer doing the classes - he is an ex police dog trainer and well used to difficult dogs.  However I ended up with a sore throat and a sore head from constantly correcting her.  I have accepted that I must be Mrs tough guy and am going for the choke chain.  This is last chance saloon.  I have clicker trained - she is a dog that responds so well for a little praise.  On my own she works her socks off to please but amongst company is blind once worked up.  What really got her going last night was 'return to your dog and give lots of praise' Everyone went back in a rush of movement and noise and Meg went bananas.  So no praise for her but lots of correction.  Basically I have to confront her if she defies me and this could mean facing down any aggression from her.  I just don't think I can do it and it will be the last straw.  Sorry to be doom and gloom but part of me has already accepted that I am too weak a person to learn to control this dog.  Even my children tell me that - my body language is too weak, I won't shout at her.  I have realised a long time ago that shouting or raising my voice got my dog going - I have tried to remain calm and firm.  I have taken advice to avoid confrontation.  Collies are sensitive animals tread carefully. Boy she has taken advantage of that one.

Hi ceejay, no advice but just to wish you all the best, and hope you can get through it :)

> Another cause for a dog going hyper is diet, if your dog is on a high protein diet that can affect behaviour

High protein levels have little to do with behaviour-artifical additives do. Protein building muscle & does not make dogs hyper I had a very hyper high drive BC & after being told it was his diet that caused it & the protein level in it. We did a food assessment & took him down to under 8 % protein in his diet-the result was no change in behaviour, but a noticable loss of muscle mass & tome. He was simply a high drive dog that needed to work to be happy & well behaved-he won over 100 novice. nursery & open Sheep Dog Trials & won out of classes in obedience upto C. he simply lived to work & use his brain

Rather than blame yourself ceejay contact Barbara directly for help & advice

I know this is a long shot as there are others on this site far more experianced than me, but we have a 15 month old BC and our Breeder said to "growl at him" this is what we both do when he is really naughty. He then refuses to meet our eyes and backs down. Jake is usually better with my OH (he's his dog) than me. But I walk them both (I have a CS) and he does do as he is told now.
Its was my cocker that turned on me once as a baby (about 7 months) that scared me and he had a smack and did not do it again) hes nwearly 18 months now. I think you have to physically control him (I dont mean roughly) but stick him on a lead and go back to basics. Its a new house (Den) and he is readjusting his place in the Den, at the moment in front of you, he just needs reminding where in the pecking order he is.
Just go back to lead, treats, stay ect and it will all come right Im sure.

> I feed Burns by the way

OK, so that's low protein and that's not going to make her hyper. If you talk to Barbara Sykes then one of the very first things she'll ask you is what you feed your dog. She will very much approve of this one!

> police dog trainer and well used to difficult dogs

OK, yes he may well be, but that doesn't mean he's the right trainer for your dog.

> I have accepted that I must be Mrs tough guy and am going for the choke chain

Half check only if you're going down this route - please not a full chain check chain!  Quite frankly though I don't think it's going to do anything to help the lunging.

I would ditch the obedience class for now.  It's not what she needs.  You're probably working in a small village hall, or similar, where dogs are fairly tense anyway, lots of people and dogs making a noise, it's not what she needs right now, and you don't need to be doing obedience/pet training (if you're doing agility then she's already got the basic training), you just need to concentrate on sorting out her issues.

> Sorry to be doom and gloom but part of me has already accepted that I am too weak a person to learn to control this dog.  Even my children tell me that - my body language is too weak, I won't shout at her

Wow, you sound soooooooooo low.  This can't be helping either of you.  Is there anyone that you train with at agility that might be able to help you?  There'll be plenty of collie owners there, or maybe one of the agility trainers - nothing to do with the agility aspect of it, but just taking charge of her and re-esablishing (or maybe even establishing yourself) as the boss.   Maybe there's someone who's had a rescue collie that arrived with issues, they may have some good pointers to give.

The agresssion with feeding - simple start ... put an empty bowl down in front of her and place a few bits of her food in at a time. She then hopefully comes to associate your hand near her food as being a really good thing.  Don't ever remove a full bowl of food from her ... I'd bite your hand if you tried to remove my dinner plate.  Though, obviously you do have to build the confidence/trust so that you can put your hand near her when she's eating - for emergency reasons if no other.

I think you've got to make a decision at this point.  Is this dog worth putting in some effort to get her sorted?  You took her on in the first place so my feeling is that it's your duty to do so.  You just really need some help and guidance that it's very difficult to give on a forum.  Did you get her as a pup from a breeder? If yes, then give the breeder a ring for some help.  Don't see it as a failing on your part ... and any breeder worth anything at all will only be too willing to give some help.

A book isn't the best thing to recommend, but ... I'm going to recommend one to you anyway:  Think Dog! - an owner's guide to canine psychology by John Fisher.  I like this, it's just such a sensible explanation of a dog/owner relationship, with lots of thought provoking ideas.

Don't know where you live but maybe contact Barbara Sykes ... http://www.bordercollies.co.uk.  She does seminars and she is passionate about her breed. I'm not a great fan, I've read her books, but not attended any courses, but I know people who have.  Probably fairly equal those who thought good and those not.  I'm hesitant about recommending a behavourist, unless you can get some personal recommendations. Personally, I think it's more likely you (sorry!) that needs sorting as opposed to the dog.

You don't need to shout at her, you don't need to become Mrs Tough, you just need to establish yourself as a firm, assertive person who is in charge ... not her, and be consistent!  You can do it if you want to, it'll take some time but she's got to be worth it.  I don't believe collies are particularly sensitive ... all of mine have a sensitive streak (they are very clued into my emotional state, as exampled in one of my previous postings, and they do not like raised voices) but then I'm sure this applies to a lot of other breeds.  I've only owned one breed of dog and I think they are the cleverest, smartest, just the most wonderful dog ever ... sorry non-collie owners, no offence :-)

> I feed Burns by the way

OK, so that's low protein and that's not going to make her hyper. If you talk to Barbara Sykes then one of the very first things she'll ask you is what you feed your dog. She will very much approve of this one!

> police dog trainer and well used to difficult dogs

OK, yes he may well be, but that doesn't mean he's the right trainer for your dog.

> I have accepted that I must be Mrs tough guy and am going for the choke chain

Half check only if you're going down this route - please not a full chain check chain!  Quite frankly though I don't think it's going to do anything to help the lunging.

I would ditch the obedience class for now.  It's not what she needs.  You're probably working in a small village hall, or similar, where dogs are fairly tense anyway, lots of people and dogs making a noise, it's not what she needs right now, and you don't need to be doing obedience/pet training (if you're doing agility then she's already got the basic training), you just need to concentrate on sorting out her issues.

> Sorry to be doom and gloom but part of me has already accepted that I am too weak a person to learn to control this dog.  Even my children tell me that - my body language is too weak, I won't shout at her

Wow, you sound soooooooooo low.  This can't be helping either of you.  Is there anyone that you train with at agility that might be able to help you?  There'll be plenty of collie owners there, or maybe one of the agility trainers - nothing to do with the agility aspect of it, but just taking charge of her and re-esablishing (or maybe even establishing yourself) as the boss.   Maybe there's someone who's had a rescue collie that arrived with issues, they may have some good pointers to give.

The agresssion with feeding - simple start ... put an empty bowl down in front of her and place a few bits of her food in at a time. She then hopefully comes to associate your hand near her food as being a really good thing.  Don't ever remove a full bowl of food from her ... I'd bite your hand if you tried to remove my dinner plate.  Though, obviously you do have to build the confidence/trust so that you can put your hand near her when she's eating - for emergency reasons if no other.

I think you've got to make a decision at this point.  Is this dog worth putting in some effort to get her sorted?  You took her on in the first place so my feeling is that it's your duty to do so.  You just really need some help and guidance that it's very difficult to give on a forum.  Did you get her as a pup from a breeder? If yes, then give the breeder a ring for some help.  Don't see it as a failing on your part ... and any breeder worth anything at all will only be too willing to give some help.

A book isn't the best thing to recommend, but ... I'm going to recommend one to you anyway:  Think Dog! - an owner's guide to canine psychology by John Fisher.  I like this, it's just such a sensible explanation of a dog/owner relationship, with lots of thought provoking ideas.

Don't know where you live but maybe contact Barbara Sykes ... http://www.bordercollies.co.uk.  She does seminars and she is passionate about her breed. I'm not a great fan, I've read her books, but not attended any courses, but I know people who have.  Probably fairly equal those who thought good and those not.  I'm hesitant about recommending a behavourist, unless you can get some personal recommendations. Personally, I think it's more likely you (sorry!) that needs sorting as opposed to the dog.

You don't need to shout at her, you don't need to become Mrs Tough, you just need to establish yourself as a firm, assertive person who is in charge ... not her, and be consistent!  You can do it if you want to, it'll take some time but she's got to be worth it. 

Hello

Having read all the comments I agree wholeheartedly with their advice.

I just wanted to add that you really need to find a trainer that uses methods you are comfortable with.

I left an obedience club that I had been a member of for a number of years because my new rescued dog had aggression issues and this was something I hadn't had a problem with before. Their solutions were, check chain, spray bitter apple in her face if she even looks at another dog, set her up so that she gets walloped with a riding crop when she goes to attack and finally have her put down. Needless to say I was not comfortable doing those things. I found a lovely one to one trainer and we got along really well. It takes time to re-teach a dog so be prepared to give it your all & don't give up hope and dont be afraid to disagree with your trainer or look for another one entirely

Keep your chin up, there were times when I felt very bleak and alone. 

As for my dog - she's 9 yrs old, still here, still drives me nuts but I wouldn't have it any other way. I learnt so much about dogs just by living with her and I am glad we got her because she would have most probably been PTS.

> Feeling very down at moment

> it has knocked my confidence enormously

> I can't see any way out of this

> I feel an absolute failure

> don't think I am the right sort of person to own a collie or any dog for that matter.

> I have had nobody to talk to about it for the last couple of weeks

In order to deal with any challenging situation, at home, at work, with dogs or kids you're on a hiding to nothing if you don't feel in control.  I was taught 'whether you think you can, or whether you think you can't, either way you are right'.

From your statements it does seem as if you're giving yourself a hard time at the moment.  There is undoubtedly some great advice for your dog here but can I suggest you take some time out for yourself.  Moving is always more stressful than you expect and the anti-climax of completing the move brings it's own problems.  Whatever long term decisions you make about the dog and her training can wait and you'll make better choices if you feel more confident in yourself.  I know this is easier said than done but if you are feeling a bit depressed and defeated before you start you'll achieve nothing.

So, institute some general 'dog management' principles at home to establish some status quo; regular feeding times, play times, exercise times, dog gates, crates etc and allocate some time for you to do whatever you need to do for you (night out, me time, doctors appointment, tel call with an old mate, cinema, chocolate! etc).  Once you start feeling better you'll prob find things are not as black as they look right now.  in the meantime find a better training class and go on your own for a couple of sessions.  Time away from the dog will help and I bet you'll find that you know way more than you think you do!  Good luck

Thanks everybody for your contributions.   My agility trainer took a dog up to Barbara Sykes for a consultation for aggression. It is a very long way up to Yorkshire from South Wales.  He has always been so positive about Meg - and has done lots to boost my confidence.   There seems to be nothing else in the area and I need to train her with other dogs.  I am going to have to make the best of it.  Took her for a walk this morning on the choke chain.  I didn't need to yank it at all thank goodness.  Moonmaiden - high drive seems to be the thing.  She was from working stock.  If she was out rounding up sheep all day she would be happy.  Unfortunately there isn't an agility class every day.  I shall continue to persevere but if I don't get some improvement in a couple of months then I will try my best to rehome her. 

I have only read a bit, and you sound so tired and your confidence is at an all time low. Can you have a break and refresh yourself. Your very hard on yourself.

You need to stop trying to keep her active and run round in circles for her and look to your own needs first. When you are stronger and more confident, she will come back to being under your control again, I promise you. :-) Give yourself time to recoup.

Ceejay,

{{{BIG HUGS}}}   

Hadn't seen this before, you sound at the end of your tether.  Just remember, moving house is one of the biggest drains on your emotions - only thing bigger is bereavement!   So cut yourself some slack ;)

Personally I think that in many ways dogs are like children and they do tend to spot when you're feeling less able/assertive/well and try to take advantage.  Of course if your dog is 'ambitious' by nature then it can make it a little more difficult to cope at times of stress  (I have one of these myself ;) )

A check chain collar for a lunging dog isn't the end of the world and doesn't mean you're a failure, but it can be an effective TEMPORARY MEASURE ;)  If correctly sized and used then the links will make a sharp noise as the dog lunges, giving you that split second to react before the lead goes taut.  After my dog injured me by lunging I resorted to the chain and in three outings she was cured   The first outing she got the shock of her life, the second she had 'forgotten' (or was maybe testing the situation ;) ) by the third day she got the idea, from then on she wore the collar as a necklace.  After a week I simply carried the collar in my hand to remind her and a week later it was retired.

How far have you moved ?   Where are you now?  I may know someone who might be able to help?  You may actually know them through agility ;)

ETA - when telling her off, does your voice go higher?  If it does then that's probably what excites her ;)  Are you able to make your voice deeper?  (a problem for females, we often don't have the right vocal chords ;) )  it may be what's needed with her? ;)

There are members who do Obedience on here who are in S Wales(well I think they are) & instead of just agility why do some HTM for fun teaching her different moves will challenge her brain.

Also try training the more advanced obedience exercises like the sendaway, scent(an informal version) etc

Check chains do not solve problems & can make BC's very "hard necked"& eventually stop being effective.A lot of hanlders use head collars(as well as the normal flat collar etc)whilst not in the ring. I like the figure of 8 type as it works the same way as a T Touch calming band. You could also try a body wrap or close fitting T Shirt these can help clam & relax her-as well as doning T Touch massage

Try to stay calm if you do have to tell her off, however I would reward her for non reaction rather punish for reaction

Dill I have a sore throat from growling!!  I have only moved to Bridgend - not far.  The walks here are so different - there were at least 20 other dogs out walking in the same area this morning - she only lunged at 2 but the first man looked at me as if I had 2 heads when I growled 'get back' at Meg and yanked her on the choke chain - she seemed to ignore the chain but then I don't think I have the knack yet.   She will walk nicely but she still likes to keep head and shoulders in front.  She used to walk off lead every day now I am keeping her on lead all the time.  Besides lots of dogs here there seem to be runners and bikes everywhere.  She is not a dog that likes anything around her - I used a stop-pull harness for her when she was little as well as a car harness.  She hated both and then refused to let me put them on!  Yes she called the shots then - she was (and still is to some extent) suspicious when anything is done to her - grooming issues and treatment.  I can do a lot more with her now - by calm quiet talking and praise.  

Haltis are really gentle, gives you good control of her head, and no need for yanking or pulling or shouting (mum is tense, therefore I must be) She sounds scared of all her new things around her, and so must attack at all costs!!! Halti's and long long lead (i have a 30 metre one, will relax you both) Good Luck x

Hi Ceejay,  Sounds like you're having a real hard time at the mo. 

I don't mean to intrude but is it possible you are suffering from a bit of depression?  I've been there myself and found that my coping skills took a severe nosedive and the smallest thing became an enormous problem. 

Please don't rush into re-homing your girl as a response to the stress you are under as you may later regret it. If you feel you need a break put her in kennels for a couple of days, it will give you time to de-stress and also give you a feeling of how life would be without her and if re-homing really is the best decision for you both. Hope things work out for you,

Mel

Hi ceejay poor you,

You've had some great suggestions............... me, well, I know what I would do, some breeds are extremely hyperactive and full on, some BC's certainly come into that category, they can be very hard work harder than some mere mortals can handle and your right they are not the right breed for many people due to this, especially if they have such a full on drive and really need to work, if not doing agility or with a good trainer who works hard to occupy especially mentally you can have a real nightmare on your hands. Don't feel a failure, you have not chosen an easy breed, many can not cope with a BC's character, not everyone even with a good behaviourist can control this breed well enough.

But, you have survived for 3 years and I know you can continue. :-)

My solution which may go down like a ton of bricks is to get your girl a canine friend, not another BC but a calmer and possibly adult rescue to help take the full focus from you.  It would give her another focus and give a rescue a good  home. With this and some good solid behavioural work you will most probably get some reprieve and find your BC calms a lot with a canine friend to run and play with too.

Of course there are downsides to this, you might end up with 2 probs instead of 1 :-D It is a risk I admit. (And I will probably be told so by other posters. :-D )

I agree, moving, hubby working from home, dog misbehaving is enough to make most people pull their hair out.

Keep your chin up. :-)  And I think you need a big. (((((((((((HUG))))))))))))))

>I growled 'get back' at Meg and yanked her on the choke chain - she seemed to ignore the chain but then I don't think I have the knack yet. 

Ceejay,

A choke chain should never be 'yanked'  nor should it ever need to go tight around the dogs neck, it should be worn loose like a necklace ;)   If it's the right size and has the right size links (for it's size) and has been put on correctly with the slide ring hanging underneath it should simply make a noise and a shaking movement while giving you time to make the motion and verbally correct ;) and should loosen up immediately.   Your hand should throw the lead forwards and down to produce the right effect - more of a shake.   You can practice on your own wrist or someone else's to get it right and there should be no tightening or pain.   Then when you move to putting it on your dog try to use it when there aren't any other dogs first to encourage her to walk on a loose lead. 

It's difficult to explain over the web, but easy to do once you've got the hang of it ;)

Does she know the LEAVE IT command?  I trained this for tasty things dropped on the floor, but also use it for other dogs/children as they were a guaranteed inducement to lunging.   

Give your throat a rest!  Try just lowering your voice and just use one word  ;)  when we are stressed our voices naturally go up in tone which dogs find exciting.  

Don't forget the move has been a huge change for both of you.  It's going to take time to adjust.

Regarding keeping her occupied, I use a Buster dog ball (it's square! :-D )  when my lot haven't been able to get out and rush around, as in the torrential rain we seem to have had forever :(  They have to work and use their brains to get their dinner out and meal time lasts a lot longer ;)  of course they have to be given it in turns ;)  I also find a nice new bone - steamed and stuffed or fresh is a great stress reliever.

I think Dogs a babe is absolutely right in saying you need time for yourself for a while.  Not until you are in a better frame of mind can you make a decision about your future with your dog, nor expect to be able to sort out the problems you have with her at the moment.
I know from my own experience this year, you CANNOT expect to train your dog if you are not in a good mental state yourself.  When everything was going to pot for me I ended up ditching the training totally for a little while.  Instead of taking her to classes, just go for a walk (I know that doesn't sound too pleasurable at the moment, go when/where it's quiet), if you really need to be 'doing' with her, teach her some tricks - fun things that it doesn't matter if she gets right or wrong.  My dogs are also from working stock and 2 of them do work sheep, but, they haven't done so for a few months just because it's not been possible for me to do everything. A few months off from their favourite job hasn't done them any harm at all.
The 2 dogs idea is a great one - but not for you at this time.  You cannot bring another dog into your home until you have yourself sorted and your girlie sorted. 
It may be that you are not the right home for her, but that's not a decision to be taken just yet.  Chill out, don't stress too much (you are, I know the signs ;-) ) and back off from her, give her time to calm and get used to the major upheaval.  Hope all comes right.

How about putting her in kennels for a week to give you and her a break. That way you can step back from the situation for a short while and, having removed yourself and your dog from the immediate stress of the situation, you can assess what is happening. Sometimes a short break from a stressful situation can make the world of difference to how you feel about something and will also give you the chance to rethink everything.

Actually i would agree totally with that having a blue/brown eyed male with a shorter coat but a heavy ruff and tail. He's ISDS and bred for working rather than showing. He is huge and lets us know very quickly what he does or does not like. Took him to a pup for lunch yesterday, big mistake, he was kept on lead and restricted movements due to kids being present, he moaned and whined and we had to leave. 5 minutes later off lead and ball throwing a happy lad with a big smile. He is easier to train by far than a cocker (other dog) but is very set in his ways and actually sulks when he's left in the office for about half an hour. He is happiest out and about all day, and does not like lead work, which is ok in certain areas as he stays close, but in built up areas he's a pain in the bum!!

We have two dogs but the second dog is a cocker and the two work very well together. Cockers are quieter! well mine is) the BC is vocal and the cocker will not back down to the bigger dog. We had both as 16 week and 8 weeks olds (cocker at 8 weeks and border when cocker was 16 weeks and Jake was 8 weeks) They jelled v. quick and both are so different but they work and live well together. BUT, I could not teach them together as the BC was so quick and CS's need constant reminding (they go deaf when a new smell arrives). We tend to exercise them apart am and together pm which means each dog has a seperate "owner". Im not sure we could manage two BC's and we have no kids at home and time.

Thanks once again for everyone's contributions and good wishes.  A second dog?!  Double trouble! no fear :-)   Meg was pretty good this morning - had 2 grandchildren to look after as well as the boiler service guy in the house.  She was pretty calm and behaved herself as did children!  Hubby did a vanishing act upstairs to use the phone so was on my own.  Let Meg off for a run afterwards having walked the same walk on lead for the last week.  It was relatively quiet and she recalled nicely without getting too excited.  So I came back without a stomach ache from worrying.  Thanks Dill for the advice with the choke chain - have been very careful with it. I am looking for some classes that will be more positive reinforcement and will keep us both happy.  I do hope there is something in the area.  If anyone knows anything in the Cardiff/Bridgend area I would be grateful to know it.  Thanks once again.  Oh and thanks HG for the games - always need a little diversion!

Second obedience session - very difficult because agility going on in the other half of the field.  Meg would not turn her back on what was going on for ages - very difficult so I got told off!  She barked at a lot of the new dogs and lunged a few times.  However I did use the choke chain and she ducked the next time I said leave.  Didn't feel good about it but she was listening to me a bit more.  I did manage to keep her walking to heel better - however we took the outside position not in the middle.  Lots of dogs there tonight.  Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel but I have to stop her getting fixated on the movement of other dogs on the agility course.   

Hi ceejay,

there's always light at the end of the tunnel, even when it seems to have gone completely it's just a bend on the path ;)

You will find a method to attract and retain her attention on you and perhaps next time just the clink of the chain will be more than enough to have her listen to you. 

FTR, I know most of us are uncomfortable with check chains but I do accept that when used carefully, correctly and with respect for the dog's comfort and confidence they are simply another training tool no more harmful than a lead, whistle or clicker.  I've known of owners who carry the chain in their pocket after a few (worn) corrections and (certainly in ordinary circumstances) even if continuing to use a check or half check collar it is pretty much a necklace around the dog's neck.

Is it not possible to attend the obedience session at a time when there is (initially at any rate) no distraction with neighbouring agility?  It just seems as though you are potentially being put in a less positive situation at the moment if trying to do two jobs simultaneously.  Other dogs in the obedience area are more than sufficient distraction without the added complication of dogs wired to the moon enjoying their romps around the agility course :)

Perhaps not a practical option for you but one I'd look into if at all possible.

Good luck and chin up!  You made progress tonight :)

Oh Dear!

Can't believe that you got shouted at :( :( :(   Not exactly the way to enable a handler to have more confidence to deal with their dog :( :( :(

If it's any consolation none of my dogs would have been able to concentrate on me in that situation either.  I wouldn't expect them to until they were able to concentrate on me in quieter situations ;)   

As she has already done some agility classes it must have been a H U G E distraction for her ;)  she may have been confused as to why she wasn't at the agility course ;)

It does sound as if you need to find a class that doesn't have the distraction of agility going on - at least until you've got her attention ;)

Try not to get downhearted, she didn't get like this overnight and it won't be fixed overnight - But that doesn't mean that you are failing, it just means that it will take some time.   

Yes she knew most of the dogs taking part too - and one in particular always gets her excited.  Just to give an illustration to her personality - this morning we had our usual walk.  She recalled first time each time - the first time when she had only just gone off lead and I could see another dog walker putting his on lead.  I took a ball and did some obedience off lead.  She was as good as gold.  However getting back home I saw her trying to snap at a wasp.  I didn't think - tapped her on the nose and told her leave.  She snapped at my sleeve and retreated under the table growling at me.  I frightened her obviously - and she picked up on my fright at the thought she might get stung in the mouth.  I sent her straight in and into her box and ignored her.  Afterwards she was back to normal.  She is so reactive and I don't think quick enough.

>I didn't think - tapped her on the nose and told her leave.  She snapped at my sleeve and retreated under the table growling at me.

Maybe it's because my dogs are smaller and not so easy to reach, I don't tap their noses, but I'm pretty sure that they would react exactly like yours ;)  I've always felt that tapping a dogs nose would likely make it hand shy or wary, bit like a horse?   I know I'd hate to have my nose tapped ;)

I really do think you need a really strong "leave it" command ;) it comes in handy for wasps :-)

I trained mine by having a piece of meat in one hand and letting them sniff it, and telling them to "leave it"  then when they eventually do there is another piece of the meat in my other hand as a reward (well, lots of pieces 'cos it gets repeated a lot :) )    I do this until they are really strong on the "leave it" and then start transferring it  to other things, dropped food in the kitchen, strange dogs, people, CATS!   ...and wasps/bees etc :-D 

The other command I find useful is "watch me" :-)     I get a lovely treat and hold it by my face and say "watch me"  of course at first the pup is watching the treat but they soon get the idea.  Then it comes in useful for other training where you need them to pay attention.

Don't beat yourself up, we all over-react at times (I have a wasp phobia so know how frightened you were for her :( ) but having both of these commands in place will help you to relax a bit more with her and then she may well be calmer too.  She sounds a sensitive soul, bit like my Bedlingtons, they are very confident and 'out there' but need "an iron fist in a velvet glove" if you want to get the best from them.  And I have to stay 3 steps ahead :)

        

Thanks Dill for being so positive about my dog.  Many folks would just say she has an aggressive tendency!  She knows leave though if it is food on the floor temptation is often too great.  She knows watch too.  As you say one has to think 3 steps ahead.  I have to spot that old bit of bone on the pavement - or the cat on the fence to stand a chance of getting her to listen.  When the wasp was there all I saw was a dash to the vets just when we were putting her in kennels for a couple of nights to attend a wedding.  There was a lot at stake as well as my not wanting her hurt.  So I need to train myself not to panic first and say the right commands in the right way.

Anyone know a good re-homing society for husbands?  Mine was angry because Meg had snapped at him when she was in her basket - another of her ratty little habits.  Later when I got in she barked at the noise next door and I sent her to her basket which she did straight away although she grumbled a bit - I was on the phone at the time.  My hubby who was working on the computer got worked up and came into the kitchen to tell her off - too late!  He picked up a newspaper and bopped her on the bum. Well if he did - Meg stood up for herself and growled and showed her teeth.  I am in the doldrums again because it is one step forward and 3 back.  I can't train my OH what chance the dog!!!  He won't have it that it is the wrong thing to do - he is another one who believes in old fashioned 'training methods' but wrongly applied in this case. 

Hi there Ceejay

I've been reading your thread and am sorry things are so bad for you and Meg at the moment.

A few things concern me and I hope you won't mind if I am honest, it's all meant with kindest of intention :)

I'll just comment on a few things as they are written, hope that's OK :)

What really got her going last night was 'return to your dog and give lots of praise' Everyone went back in a rush of movement and noise and Meg went bananas.  So no praise for her but lots of correction.

If this was his advice, what was the rationale behind it? Has she been used to this before? If not, why does he recommend she is punished for what is basically an emotional reaction she has not been trained to keep under control?

Basically I have to confront her if she defies me and this could mean facing down any aggression from her.  I just don't think I can do it and it will be the last straw.

If he's told you this, he's an idiot. I suspect under law, if she bit you whilst you were following his advice, you could sue him. Not sure on that one but I'd be surprised if that was not the case. A good trainer just does not tell  a woman (or anyone!) to face down aggression - it's ridiculous, and dangerous advice.

  Sorry to be doom and gloom but part of me has already accepted that I am too weak a person to learn to control this dog. It is possible you are "over dogged" but that does NOT mean she needs a physically strong owner...

Even my children tell me that what is their track record with difficult dogs and with learning about canine behaviour? ;)

- my body language is too weak, I won't shout at her. If that is what they say to you, go tell 'em to take a jump. A good dog handler does NOT have to shout at their dog. They are giving foolish, uneducated and silly advice to you

I have realised a long time ago that shouting or raising my voice got my dog going - I have tried to remain calm and firm.  I have taken advice to avoid confrontation. Yes, that is right. No dog and owner should be in a confrontation situation.

Collies are sensitive animals tread carefully. Boy she has taken advantage of that one. Collies can be intense, controlling and all sorts. They do need an owner who can direct them - I sense part of the issue may be that you lack confidence in yourself - she may sense this and react accordingly. If you control their resources you control the dog. The trick is to be able to dedicate oneself to the training and ot learn about training, and I suspect it is hard for you because you feel tired and stressed, have many other things going on and half the time just want peace, which Meg destroys when she barks or behaves in a difficult manner. Also a dog from a farm will be constantly on the go - I've spent much of my time with one. Not to say they can't be trained to settle but it is'nt always for long! and it can take their maturing to get this calmer dog.


He has always been so positive about Meg - and has done lots to boost my confidence Yes, I remember when you found him - he boosted your confidence in your ability to handler her - which is what you needed! NOT this kind of thing: Meg would not turn her back on what was going on for ages - very difficult so I got told off! which is preposterous!

Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel but I have to stop her getting fixated on the movement of other dogs on the agility course.  If a dog is visually stimulated and also loves agility, that is going to be extremely difficult. (Silly question but why are you not doing the agility? are there no places? sorry I've probably missed loads of what's happened...) I' d not try to force her to obey you under those kind of conditions - if you really wanted to do so, you'd be far better off training her at a great distance from the agility with fun stuff for you and her (insisting on obedience but using her fav. toys, etc and making it fun) and then over the weeks gradually moving closer, but very hard to do in most environments as there is just not the space.

OK those are some general comments, I also wanted to comment on these:

Last week she made a dash for freedom when my husband left the door open.  I grabbed her collar (suddenly which must have alarmed her) and hung on when she snapped.  She came back at me quite nastily - really telling me off - that was dominance aggression not nervous aggression I am sure. I suspect she was nervous of having her collar grabbed, but also wanting you to back off. But reading further:

I stood very still and looked away - shocked to the core.  My husband made her lie down in the kitchen and we ignored her for some time. Ok, not really good training - ignoring her for lying down quietly. Better to just have left her. Dogs tend  to forget things within a few seconds very often.

All the signs were there that she has become too full of herself. From this thread, I'd not really see it like that.
[i/ Walking off lead was always a pleasure - now she runs off to far away and comes back when she pleases. Any reason you think this is happening? what is she doing - investigating a new dog? can she hear you? do you use one good recall  word you've taught? do you ever repeat recall? 
  New places get her too excited so she just switches off from me.  I could go on.  I have the Carol Price and Barbara Sykes books but trying to implement things to counteract is not easy. This can be remedied but as you say it's not always easy from a book.  In fact most owners do need someone with them or regular sessions with a really good trainer to interpret the books ...   She treats me with disdain and it has knocked my confidence enormously.  and no-one else really helps, not your children, husband,  nor your new trainer :(

She is a brilliant agility dog and I have learnt a lot - started entering competition now.  I don't think fast enough - she is the sort of collie that gets highly excited at the drop of a hat. which shows you must have some bond with her and be good at some training to have got this far with her!!!! Well done :) !!!

However I ended up with a sore throat and a sore head from constantly correcting her.  I have accepted that I must be Mrs tough guy and am going for the choke chain.  This is last chance saloon.  I have clicker trained - she is a dog that responds so well for a little praise.  On my own she works her socks off to please but amongst company is blind once worked up. dogs who are like this tend to not be able to use their thinking part of the brain once worked up and stressed. They literally can only use the emotional, reactive part. Thus very often they are extremely hard to train in such circumstances as they literally cannot learn in them. Also dogs need to learn to generalise - you can't go from a relatively quiet environment to one which is really busy with distractions such as owners using toys, for instance!! Very hard to do... it can be done very gradually over time by training in gradually more busy and distracting places, and slowly building up obedience and responses in busier places...

I did use the choke chain and she ducked the next time I said leave.  Didn't feel good about it but she was listening to me a bit more

She was as good as gold.  However getting back home I saw her trying to snap at a wasp.  I didn't think - tapped her on the nose and told her leave.  She snapped at my sleeve and retreated under the table growling at me.  I frightened her obviously - and she picked up on my fright at the thought she might get stung in the mouth. Totally understandable but as you realise, not a good reaction from yourself. It's easy to panic - you can school yourself to call the dog away and praise for coming. Always to make an opportunity to reward, rather than tell off.

I sent her straight in and into her box and ignored her OK, this was not right. I think this is partly where things go wrong esp, when your hubby is so traditional, more of that in a minute! She snapped - you had scared her, there was no need to punish her.
IME it's best to think "oh god, I made my dog react badly to me, bad call on my part" and instead either let the dog chill and a few moments later play a game or pet, or else if the dog is normally fine to handle, say "sorry girl, my fault" and call her with calm body language and a happy voice :)  This helps to build up a history of trust and can help to "mend" any incidents that go awry due to overreacting or bad planning.

Afterwards she was back to normal.  She is so reactive and I don't think quick enough. She might have been back to normal, but it's another thing she might add on to her "humans can be unpredictable" view.
Mine was angry because Meg had snapped at him when she was in her basket - another of her ratty little habits. Do you know the circumstances? Later when I got in she barked at the noise next door and I sent her to her basket
Is she sent to her basket as punishment? Or were you just trying to keep her quiet? I'd suggest perhaps an appropriate reactoin would be to say "Meg, quiet" (obviously teach a "Quiet"! :) ) but not any punishment, if that is what it was meant to be...it seems from what you say that Meg saw it as punishment, which i'd say is not fair without knowing more which she did straight away although she grumbled a bit - I was on the phone at the time.
again understandable but ... My hubby who was working on the computer got worked up and came into the kitchen to tell her off - too late!  He picked up a newspaper and bopped her on the bum. why was he telling her off - for the barking? Or her grumbling? or was he just frustrated?
Well if he did - Meg stood up for herself and growled and showed her teeth I'm not surprised. . 
I am in the doldrums again because it is one step forward and 3 back.  I can't train my OH what chance the dog!!!  He won't have it that it is the wrong thing to do - he is another one who believes in old fashioned 'training methods' but wrongly applied in this case. It's very difficult if you both have different views on how to train Meg.

My main concern is that she feels the need to defend herself. So far this has not escalated to a bite and it may never,  but I suspect she sees humans as being sometimes unpredictable. Your husband, and the sometimes unfair punishments, confirm this to her :( 

Consider this - he smacked her with a newspaper. He thought it fine. However, dogs can and will remember such things and even years later can react badly to people, even strangers, carrying newspapers. What if your grandchilden ran past her with a comic and she felt threatened? He really must stop his old fashioned ways and also not react to her barking or growling by being so stressed and annoyed he whops her with a newspaper. I can almost guarantee she will have learnt only that humans are unpredictable and that collar grabbing, sudden movements, etc are to be wary of. There is no building up of a history of trust....

My honest view is that I think you are having a horribly stressful time of owning Meg, who, although a lovely dog, may be too much for you. I felt so sad when you wrote that you got stomach ache due to stress when walking her :( It's not a case of you not being shouty enough, no matter what anyone tells you - it's more a matter of some dogs being difficult and needing owners who know how to train them: perhaps due to previous experience, or an interest in behaviour, having very good trainers to help nearby, or whatever :)

When you found your nice agility trainer, I felt he was going to be such a help and that you and Meg were slowly bonding and finding enjoyment in each other. I am so sorry that he's gone. My advice would be this, that if you were going to keep Meg you could:

Ensure your husband lets the dog training be up to you

find something you and Meg enjoy doing, even if it's just rambling together

train her regularly for her toy

be prepared to tackle the various issues - list what needs to be sorted out and consider if you need a good trainer or behaviourist to help with them.

Try to find another trainer, try this list: http://www.apdt.co.uk/local_dog_trainers.asp

try to find more opportunities to be optimistic and to reward her - read how to do this.

Read more about how dogs learn and how they think. Learn how to give consequences fairly in training.

I do think that if things don't improve within a few months, then very sadly, it might be time to consider finding her another home, as if everyone is miserable then it's not fair on anyone, especially yourself and Meg.

Sorry this is so very long, I wanted to comment such a lot of it, forgive the length!!! :) :)

Lindsay
xx