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I think the KC really has to 'put it's money where it's mouth is' on this -

KC registration should be a badge of quality - it should be mandatory that all pups registered with the KC come from health tested parents who have good test scores -the KC should NOT be registering untested dogs ! - if this means that breeders 'go underground' and breed outside the KC's influence - well that makes things even clearer  for the general public - any breeder whose pups are not KC registered is likely to be producing inferior pups !.

I also think that if breeds such as Cavaliers are so compromised by health problems then some degree of widening of the gene pool should be allowed by the KC -perhaps  by introducing Cocker or Tibetan Spaniel lines to help create more unaffected lines - yes I know this would be a huge step for the KC (as a Groenendael owner/breeders we continue to argue for the right to cross breed with Tervs to widen our gene pool ).

Judges should not be rewarding extremes of breed type and much more importance needs to be placed on the dogs construction and ability to move well - perhaps an introduction of a points system   - i.e 20 for front construction - 10 for eyes/ears - 20 for expression - 30 for movement etc. This way judges cannot over reward one criteria to the detriment of a breed.

Overall I thought the programme extremely biased ( the RSPCA vet's comments were just ridiculous - mutants ?) and the Kc responses were pretty feeble - but some issues wre raised that simply cannot be ignored , I for one am glad that the genie is out of the bottle and the KC may now be galvanised into putting some teeth into it's registration scheme.

Yvonne

>some degree of widening of the gene pool should be allowed by the KC yes I know this would be a huge step for the KC

I would be a huge step but not one that the KC has shied away from in the past .

> and the Kc responses were pretty feeble

Do you mean the responses during the programme? The responses given in the couple of interviews I heard during yesterday, unfettered by the programmes editors, were much more robust.

>Judges should not be rewarding extremes of breed type and much more importance needs to be placed on the dogs construction and ability to move well

I agree, and this to me may be the key to a solution, to the issue of breeding to extremes anyway.  Over recent years the KC has made steps to improving judging and the requirements they demand to allow people to judge and maybe they could now step that up to audit judges and remove their "licence" if they are selecting dogs for awards that demonstrate extremes, particularly when standards now point the way against such dogs.

Overall I thought the programme extremely biased ( the RSPCA vet's comments were just ridiculous - mutants ?) and the Kc responses were pretty feeble - but some issues wre raised that simply cannot be ignored , I for one am glad that the genie is out of the bottle and the KC may now be galvanised into putting some teeth into it's registration scheme.


I agree with this, there where some good points come out of last nights programme, some ridiculous one too.....

But over all, if it gives the KC a kick up its backside to insist on compulsory health screening, before registration.

It is not rocket science, and as most reputable breeders health screen, it is not asking for something that is not already done.

Compulsory health screening- I agree completely- so long breeders actually take notice of the results!!!!

The breeders who have a health problem in thier breed and choose not to test- well, ignorance is bliss isn't it???

  No better than puppy farmers IMHO.

I really think what has to happen here is for all the individual parent breed clubs to issue a statement to the BBC from their health co-ordinators in direct response to the programme stating what is actually been done to irradicate inherited diseases and research tests etc.... for them.

Letters on mass are going to be too big volume wise for them to cope with and therefore many will go ignored.

It really did appear as if Ronnie Irving and Dr Jeff Sampson thought they were making another programme entirely.  Irrespective of content, their delivery was such that it made the Kennel Club seem staffed by giggling buffoons.  I have no doubt that it was deliberately presented that way, an interviewer catching RI at an event with a glass in his hand must have been delighted by his woolly response to mother son matings (unfortunately he looked as if it was the first time he'd ever heard of such a thing); and there were moments when I was urging Dr JS to stop grinning - "this isn't a joke and she is making you look like a fool".

The statement put out by the KC and Caroline Kisco in interview have all presented a much more media savvy response, but you have to wonder why/how the KC got caught out in this way.  I'd much rather they got on with the job in hand but, like politicians have had to, they really do need to acknowledge that much of what they can achieve will be done with the help and support of the media and to ignore that seems niaive in the extreme.  Please could someone give the KC some media training - quick.

I'd love to see just what ended up on the cutting room floor...

> but you have to wonder why/how the KC got caught out in this way.

I agree.  As I said before, I wondered why they did not take a close look at this company before getting into it but I also think there was probably hours of footage of more reasoned responses lying discarded on the cutting room floor.

Yes I agree too. Compulsory health testing is the way to go.

Breeders will have to take notice of the results because they will be recorded on the resulting puppies registration certificates as they are now.

OK, so in theory a breeder could ignore them and carry on breeding, but who in their right mind would buy a puppy knowing that pup comes from dogs with poor results - again Joe Public needs educating. Another thing would be for the KC not to register pups with parents known to be affected/poor scores etc.

This would then make a KC registration actually mean something.

I think that the programme will without doubt have a negative affect on breed rescues as it will scare anyone off buying the breeds hi-lighted :-(

My husband who knows the same as joe public when it comes to dogs and health problems was very upset by what was shown, we have always talked about getting a boxer in our retirement days but although I can relay what is posted on here it won't ever change what he felt when he saw that poor dog fitting :-(

We got our cavs from someone who does all the relevent health testing but I still felt a panic when I saw those poor cavs on there last night:-(

I think the breeders that the woman that filmed the documentary was following after the meeting made themselves look very very silly and it appeared that all they cared about was the fact she had approached and confronted that woman who's dog had sm and had won best in show!! In all fairness I thought the woman who's dog won best in show was an absolute disgrace breeding from an affected dog and in my eyes she is worse than any byb!! I also think that best in show should include health and therefore that dog would not and should not have won....why would you promote a dog that has a health problem???

The two men that spoke for the kennel club did "appear" very very silly and not half as knowledgable as the vets against pedigree dogs unfortunately :-(

I hope that this doesn't mean that joe public will suddenly start handing in their dogs to rescue for fear of spending the amount of money mentioned last night. I don't agree with the way the film was portrayed but it has opened my eyes to the showing world (not everyone that shows just the bad apples) and to cull a puppy because of a ridge is disgusting!!!!

Rant over :-)

I hope that this doesn't mean that joe public will suddenly start handing in their dogs to rescue for fear of spending the amount of money mentioned last night. 

It's just happened, (the sister thread to this programme on the breeding forum) first of many for rescue by the looks. :-(

I have been too work for 1hr 45mins.  Its the talk on all of our customers lips.  A client said she had a pedegree border secured with a breeder and just phoned to cancel it and she is going to a rescue centre today to pic a rescue dog.  Also another client has said she has a 9 week old golden retriever and has phoned the breeder to take the pup back and give her a full refund.  I think this programme is going to be bad for some breeders with pups at the min.  But like we all say if it was made compulsary to test instead of the KC creaming the money of any old breeder then things like this wouldnt happen.  Maybe if we did a group letter/email/petition to the KC to insist on the tests etc they may listen, after all the only breeders who should be worried are the ones not worth it anyway.  Also I have never understood why in KC dog shows points cant be given to a dog based on their tests ie the better the tests the more points they get because like it pointed out on the show, there may be two dogs both to the breed standard, one which may have serious problems and one with non at all and the dog with the serious problems could win, which in my opinion is wrong.

Dear, dear, the train wreckage is just starting. :-( (In response to the pups being taken back and sent to rescue already)

I have been too work for 1hr 45mins.  Its the talk on all of our customers lips.  A client said she had a pedegree border secured with a breeder and just phoned to cancel it and she is going to a rescue centre today to pic a rescue dog

At least she is getting a rescue dog and not spending £££ on a cross breed mongrel which apparantly since last night are 100% healthy with not one thing wrong unlike our beadly bred and mutant pedigree dogs :(

I just pray I dont start seeing all manner of cross breeds where back yard breeders see this as an oppourtunity and start deliberatly cross breeding any breeds irrisponsibly and without regard to breed etc just to get more business from these people who are under some illusion a crossbreed will never develop a illness or be ill compared to pedigree :(

I can see it now

Crossbred puppies for sale £XXX healthy little bundles of fun, alot healthier than the pedigree inbred dog. Lots of hybrid vigour, great temperaments etc. No problems in crossbreeds at all. Call now

P.Farmer

Hi I am just repeating what i said on marions post as i feel very passionately and feel that this programme was too biased

I personally thought that the programme was very biased. They had no evidence to support everything that they were saying. I thought it was rather disgusting when they asked the lady with the ckcs (not mentioning her name) about her dog developing syringomyelia as it was none of their business. I thought that the whole mutant thing the rspca vet was saying was cruel, offensive and untrue, and they were completely attacking the kennel club who have changed the history of breeds and without them we would not be where we are today. I also believe what the chairman of the kennel club was saying when he said "well its still progress".They don't understand that breeders are trying to breed out the genetic disorders found in dogs and that's is why many breeders breed from only tested stock. I agree that there are some breeders that don't but I personally don't know any. not all ckcs breeders scan their cavaliers for syringomyelia you saw for yourself however I do know many breeders who do and really do care for the breeds health problems and are really trying to breed it out rather than encourage it. I must admit I really was not expecting such an offensive programme to breeders and the kennel club and think that there was no justification for their behaviour and  I believe it is right to point out the health problems of our very beloved breeds,however they have taken it a step too far. I will be writing to the BBC and will be trying to get a right reply as I am quite annoyed. imagine the trouble this could cause for reputation to us breeders and not to mention us exhibitors and for no apparant reason! The reputation to a breeder or exhibitor is not the most annoying part, the most annoying part is that many inexperienced dog owners, not being educated on exhibiting and breeding will only believe the stupid information they have been fed on this programme and will think twice before even looking at another pedigree dog which for me is ridiculous. I have nothing against mongrels at all, i think they can make great pets but as far as breeding and exhibiting goes, I personally would never mix breeds or breed from a mongrel. and mongrels CAN get health problems too, i know many mongrels with health problems so im not going to go into that.And also mongrels cannot be shown, they are unpredictable how they will turn out therefore no breed standard can be modelled on a mongrel and too right. The rhodesian ridgebcak thing was very stupid indeed, I have never personally heard in my life, that without the ridge they are less prone to spinal disorders and I never see the vets complaining when they charge you 150 pounds just to look at your pedigree dog and tell you that there was nothing wrong with it in the beginning, if some of these stupid vets lost pedigree dogs as customers their practises would all be going into liquidation lol sorry to banter on but I was kind of cheesed off with this silly programme lol

I can see why you were when you own cavs, I love the breed and want one when Im older, this programme hasnt stopped me wanting one either.
I thought the programme did alot of damage and didnt actully raise awareness of anything, just started a witch hunt for pedigree dogs and breeders :(

I used to show dogs up until about 30 years ago and bred the occasional litter (rough and smooth collies).
During that time I started to see things deteriorate very rapidly. The rough Collie suddenly started being bred smaller and with a much heavier coat so it couldn't move as well. The younger judges liked this new fad and these dogs were winning and becoming champions.
I saw the good strong straightbacked GSD's being bred with sloped backs bringing with it a huge amount of hip dysplasia. But these dogs again were the new trend and won so it continued. This was happening accross the board with various breeds like you saw last night.
I was disgusted then and got out of it.
I have owned a couple of GSD's since both were pet accidental matings but come from good straight backed dogs and bitches and never suffered a health problem especially hips. NEVER would I have gone to an "accredited" show breeder and got a sloping back one and the problems that could have come with that.
I was so saddened by what it has all become today. At the beggining of my time in show dogs we really were out to improve the breed but this changed to glamour and trends which I wouldn't be part of.
The breed standards have been misinterpreted for many years to give exaggerated looks and sadly become accepted.
I can only hope that the general public all watched it last night and any who have booked puppies from some of these "winning" so called top dogs, like that woman with her Cavalier will now cancel and refuse to buy any puppy that could be remotely related to him or any other breed that may have hereditary problems.
Only by the public refusing to buy puppies from such breeders and matings will it put a stop to all this.
If there is no market for them they will not be able to breed.
I am glad the prgramme was shown as there are so many people out there that wouldn't have had a clue what went on before. Even I was shocked at the scale of it all now.

The kennel club need to make it compulsory that the only pups that can be registered are those from clear tested parantage and a register of dogs and test results should be available to anyone wishing to buy a puppy.

hi rach85

I totally agree and think that it is fantastic that you havent been put off but can imagine many silly people were, Cavaliers are (in my personal opinion) a beautiful, loving fantastic breed that can live long healthy lives if both parents are tested and found clear. I only ever test my stock and the majority of the other breeders i know do too, If any of mine werent found clear of MVD or SM i simply would not breed from them but mine mostly always pass so this programme really hasnt made me worry in the slightest but now many silly people may be looking at pedigree dogs as mutants which for me is very upsetting as they simply are not :(

> i simply would not breed from them but mine mostly always pass

Thats what responsoble breedership is all about isnt it and thats what you are same as most on here :)

> now many silly people may be looking at pedigree dogs as mutants which for me is very upsetting as they simply are not :-(

Its crazy isnt it?
How people are so quick to believe ANYTHING thats on TV is amazing, im sure if I went on and said you could mate a horse with a dog and get a Stalladog (Stallion cross dog lol) people would believe it and want one!!

rach85 where can I get one of these stalladogs, but I want one that has been tested for sure ha ha. will it come with papers ;-)

Hi bevb

I respect your opinion but disagree with it. I understand that under recent years dogs have been developing more health problems however in my post I have mentioned that breeders are constantly trying to breed out these problems and any dogs that are found with hip Dysplasia should not be bred from. You do not know that if the kennel club was no longer running, breeders would still breed and buyers would still buy. I think that this programme has caused alot of damage to potential dog owners however they should just buy from dogs that have been health tested! I personally prefer the gsd to have a sloped back and cavaliers to have a shorter face than the older type cavaliers. It's the same as people, we have changed over years and you could say we are 'mutants' however some people have become too tall, fat thin you name it, we are all freaks and i don't even want to go into the genetic health problems humans can suffer like cancer which is very commonly  believed to be passed on in your genes. what are you going to do? tell us that we are freaks and shouldn't breed?

you quoted

At the beggining of my time in show dogs we really were out to improve the breed

And that is exactly what breeders have done. If you took an old type GSD they would be chucked out in the ring, and thats because the old type were used for working however the show type is bred for showing and conformation, bringing up cavaliers, if I took a dog that looked like the very first cavalier the breed standard was modelled on, ANNS SON his name was, he would be thrown out. not because he wasn't a 'mutant' but because he has not been bred as a show dog, but a lap dog! If you want longer back gsds, you can find the working type, there are many breeders which don't breed the true standard however as far as showing is concerned they would not do well. To get to the point, over the years our beloved breeds have been bred, conformation has improved greatly and if you want a working dog go and buy a working dog. I am very offended about your advice telling people not to buy any puppies related to that cavalier, in fact i do currently have a six month old puppy who is his grandson and he is a very healthy, beautiful dog indeed, which no signs of SM  or heart murmur sired by  his champion father who is son of that dog and is three years old and has had no problems at all. I would personally stop believing rumours that you see on a biased programme.

LOL @ Thompson ;)
Nice one hun :) :)

thankyou im getting passionately worked up now on this subject lol

Its a heart wrenching subject as its lives were talking about u know?
If you didnt get worked up then I would be worried ;) !! xx

> You do not know that if the kennel club was no longer running, breeders would still breed and buyers would still buy.

I agree with that

>> At the beggining of my time in show dogs we really were out to improve the breed
>
> And that is exactly what breeders have done

but I don't agree with that and I believe this is exactly what the KC have been making moves to correct over the last couple of decades.   Some breeds seem to be putting up considerable resistance :-(

Phew, what a lot to read! Had no time to log in here last night what with all the discussions going on at the mailing lists as well. I saw several posts on the now locked original thread that I wanted to reply to, so I'll try to put it all in one post.

Isabel said:
    >> in Sweden they have very strict rules before dogs may be bred

I understand that is government legislation.

No, it's the Swedish KC. They can do it, why can't we? You must health test parents before being able to register pups. Certain breeds must also have a character assessment (now wouldn't THAT be great to HELP Rottweilers overcome their reputation here!) and also you pay roughly twice as much to register each pup if the mother has not got show or working qualifications! :) This all means KC reg has at least a bit of quality attached to it.

Sam mentioned about the Blenheim cavalier with SM taken for a walk. Personally I think both this dog and the fitting Boxer should have been put to sleep -neither had a normal life. :(

Sorry, can't remember who asked about cats and the GCCF now, but no, the GCCF does even LESS than the KC. (Possibly because the GCCF do not make the rules for each breed, the Breed Advisory Committees, made up of people from the breed clubs, do). Yes, I know of a couple of breeds where the kittens can only be registered on the full register if both parents have tested clear of the breed's particular problem, but that great majority of breeds has nothing like this. Furthermore, whereas in dogs you will get hip scores, elbow scores, date of latest eye test etc printed on the registration certificate, the GCCF refuses to do this. There are also no rules regarding age of mother etc. On the other hand the GCCF are far quicker to make sure breeds that really are over exaggerated do NOT get recognised and cannot be shown or registered -Munchkin as an example.

In all I think the programme was much better than expected. Mark Evans was just plain silly, but the breeders interviewed really shot themselves in the foot.

her dog developing syringomyelia as it was none of their business Well, it is the business of someone who may buy an affected puppy, and shows that this woman is prepared to lie about the health of her dog. Which is a shame because it lets all of you down. She may not care what is passed on, at what age does this condition become apparent? Its a shame that other breders fail to test for this, and as the one said, she didnt believe it was such a problem, it could just be the dog scratching regardless of the vets opinion.

The GSd certainly found it hard to walk, all of them, so unlike the Police and army dogs I have seen. Why turn the show bred ones into something that can't walk? Hardly a good conformation, even if it does follow the breed standard.

I would personally stop believing rumours that you see on a biased programme.
But they are not roumers about that dog, but fact, biased as it was to some degree. Sadly the breeders let themselves down with their attitude, where the heck were breeders like you lot on here, who wouldn't let themselves be bullied and be a little more eloquent than the Kc reps. The Kc and breed clubs need to hit back with a film of their own, or a tv program, with people that can answer their questions. Trouble is, when certain Kc members were pushed, they couldnt justify what they were doing. oh, its such a mess. I just hope people don't lose puppy sales, because its the pups that are gonna suffer. :(

Hi cavalierz
I also fully respect your opinion, we are all equally entitled to our views and beliefs.  However I find it sad that many breeds have been changed for beauty alone.  It has not done thier health any good IMO and although many may prefer the looks of them now I feel the overall health of the breed should be the main key to success of a breed.
I cannot agree personally with breeds health suffering in the search of beauty.
I fully agree if you took an old type GSD in the ring nowadays you would be chucked out, what a shame it has come that they have had to compromise thier hips for peoples preference in the show ring.
Perhaps if all breeders strived to get back the healthier decendants looks for the show ring instead of glamour we could still have lovely shows, with good strong healthy specimens of the breeds and less design faults.
I worry where it will all end up.
Cavaliers are my favourite breed of all time my two were the sweetest dogs I have ever owned in my life, sadly I lost them aged 4 yrs and 7years.  I was scared to get another cavalier straight away as I couldn't go through the heartache of seeing dogs I loved so deeply  suffer again, lately I had been thinking of maybe in the future I would try again with the breed that I cannot get out of my heart.  Sadly again last night has made me realise its such a minefield out there with what SOMEbreeders are doing I really wouldn't know where to start looking or who to trust.   This is why I think the KC or some main body should have a register of all stock bred from and the results of thier health tests.  This would aid me immensly to find that special friend of my dreams again.

Hi Isabel

I think it is great for everyone to share their opinions:)but am sad to hear that you disagree with my second opinion :(
I only believe that  health problems have increased however the look of breeds have improved so if breeders only breed the healthy the offsring hopefully will be healthy too and will start to breed out the problems that can occur which is (in my opinion) exactly what all breeders are trying to do. I don' t think that everything is perfect however I am a great believer on the fact anything can be corrected and so can the health of dogs.

> Crossbred puppies for sale £XXX healthy little bundles of fun, alot healthier than the pedigree inbred dog. Lots of hybrid vigour, great temperaments etc. No problems in crossbreeds at all. Call now

you forgot to add 'As seen on TV!'

> No, it's the Swedish KC.

So people can breed dogs outside the registration system but choose not to?   Was that always the case?  I agree it would be the answer to just about everything but I'm not sure if that would work in the UK when you are trying to change a long established freedom for anyone to breed a dog regardless of registration.

> but the breeders interviewed really shot themselves in the foot.

I agree, but what a pity more attempt was not made to put them in proportion.

>but I also think there was probably hours of footage of more reasoned responses lying discarded on the cutting room floor.

This is what I mean by hatchet job. :( 

Regarding health testing becoming compulsory, I'm all for it, I feel that until the KC are able to refuse to register progeny of dogs that do not 'pass' their health testing then KC registration will never be the mark of quality it should be.

Kennel Club response here [url=]http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/1995/23/5/3

[/url]

So people can breed dogs outside the registration system but choose not to?   Was that always the case?  I agree it would be the answer to just about everything but I'm not sure if that would work in the UK when you are trying to change a long established freedom for anyone to breed a dog regardless of registration.

Yes, its mainly designer crossbreeds bred outside the SKK. Even Joe Bloggs down the road in Sweden knows that when you a buy a pedigree puppy, it's important that it is SKK registered.

> however the look of breeds have improved so if breeders only breed the healthy the offsring hopefully will be healthy too and will start to breed out the problems that can occur

Personally, I think the extremes that those "looks" have been taken in some breeds have made it beyond a matter of hope that the health issues arising can be bred out without reverting to more feasable anatomy. 

Marianne - I think that is the crux of the problem. KC registration means very little in reality. Joe Public have a misguided view that it does equate to quality. The fact that puppy farmers can register their pups is a case in point. If the KC only chose to register pups of health-tested parents then a KC registration WOULD mean something. OK, alternative registration societies could be used by others but the KC system would be used by breeders who care about their dogs and their health and subsequent puppies are more likely to be free from inherited problems or guaranteed in some cases (breeding clear to clear).

Hi bevb

i understand how devastating it is to lose a dog, and completely understand your point. It would be amazing if we could always breed healthy specimens and there would never be any problems. I think it is something us breeders are working at and yes it could improve. i believe that all dogs should be tested and if they are not healthy nor tested they should NOT be bred from. I think that the looks of dogs has improved from the conformation point of view and I want to reassure you that there are many cavalier breeders that breed long living, healthy specimens of the breed including being beautiful too. I currently don't have any puppies  but can, if you want direct you to some very good lines to choose from where clear hearts and SM are very scarce. A dog's health can never be guaranteed but there are some lines breeding very healthy, beautiful specimens of the breed. If you send me a personal message I can tell you some of the healthiest lines to choose from who all carry out health tests on their dogs, I don't know whether they have puppies now but it is worth researching their lines, maybe even go to some champ shows and speak to some breeders. There are some breeders in particular that are very open with discussing SM and MVD and some may even tell you their own personal experiences and advise you.
I really think that this programme was right to be discussing different health issues found in the breed but their was poor evidence, it was extremely biased (especially the vets) i mean there was no need to call pedigrees mutants! I think you should be advised by some people who have REAL experience other than these vets who havent even bred a dog in their life and have empty heads when it comes to breeding. please don't let this programme nor your experience deter you from such wonderful animals.

Would this result in a greater number of unregistered puppies?

LouiseDDB - If your question is referring to my post, I would say possibly. BUT it is the general public that need to understand the necessity to buy pedigree puppies from health-tested parents, and if there was only one source (ie The KC) where health-testing was manditory, then I would think any puppies obtained via other sources would be deemed as suspect.

Thats my worry most of all about all this, joe public will react and buy loads of untested puppies which will be bred from of course or as they say by 'accidental' mating (need rolleyes simili now lol ) and we will be plagued by badly bred dogs with no health tests and unknown temperaments :(

> the fitting Boxer should have been put to sleep

I have a dog who had fits just like that about three or four times a week for about 18 months. As the medication dose was adjusted they frequency and strength of the fits eased until they stopped altogether, and she has been off the meds completely and fit-free for 9 years.

Even at the worst times, in between the fits she lived a perfectly normal life, and nobody would ever have known there was anything wrong. Fitting per se shouldn't automatically be a death sentence, as long as the owner can deal with it. If dogs' experiences of fitting are similar to humans' (who say they know nothing about it and only feel tired with a bit of a headache when they come round), then it's the owner who suffers and not the dog.

>Thats my worry most of all about all this, joe public will react and buy loads of untested puppies which will be bred from of course or as they say by 'accidental' mating (need rolleyes simili now lol ) and we will be plagued by badly bred dogs with no health tests and unknown temperaments

Yep, I think you might be right. They'll shun the 'show breeders' (who were all tarred with the same brush because no mention was made of the thousands who do all they can to ensure healthy puppies) and turn to the 'pet-producers' who of course are now considered to be 'above' all that, because they simply put any old dog with any old bitch.

Decades of work undone in an hour. Well done Jemima!

The way he hit the wall though -what happens when he is unattended? And their pup -I sure hope they keep that safely locked away if they are out or asleep, as horrendous attacks can take place if one dog starts fitting unattended.

imo i think allready the non-reg pups are suspect. How to educate public is going to be a definate triumph, alot of people dont even know what the kennel club is, they know/think they have a pedigree pup and thats it, plus others think the Kc is just for the snobbery and a make money scheme.

Majority of public have no idea what health tests need to be done on certain breeds, some breeders dont either. But how do you educate the ignorant, these people go and buy a pup and when something goes wrong they dont look to themselves for blame, even though its pretty much thier fault, if puppies are being bought without health tests done, where would be the insentive to test? There is an article in a dog mag that lists alot of the breeds and their health probs and has a contact detail of someone high up in the breed, in my breed i know the said person well. It says the health issues in my breed are......vWD! Nothing about,Bloat,HD,ED, eyes, heart etc but who buys these types of magazines? US lot!! doggy people, not general public.

A good thing would be an advert on tv for the RSPCA short and sour along the lines of puppy farms/byb , a clip of a cute puppy, disgusting conditions, mum about to drop dead, said pup is bought and fast forward in time to a vets clinic where dog is now being pts Mr vet says ''he was not from tested, healthy, parents'' close up of dogs eyes closing and family sob. boo hoo. Mr narrator '' always buy from a responsible breeder, make sure health tests are done, this could have easily been prevented''  then ''for more information visit rspca.net'' or whatever website is and a pic of poor buttons then fade to black.

Think i deserve my oscar now, but really do you think it would have an effect?

Yes, if they had wanted to actually help the people who ARE testing and trying to create healthy dogs, there would have been some sort of comment like 'anyone searching for a puppy should find out the relevant problems for the breed they want and make sure their puppy comes from tested stock'. When I was selling a litter last year, only half or less of the enquirers knew to ask about heart testing, and not one single person asked about MRI scans. :-(

Decades of work undone in an hour. Well done Jemima!

Echoed here JG :(

I just know I am gonna be more wary of people and their dogs now as I dont know if I can trust joe public anymore, first they wont train their dogs before letting off lead etc and now they refuse to buy from helth tested stock, what next??!!

>The way he hit the wall though -what happens when he is unattended?

I don't know where he was left when he was unattended. My dog was in a safe pen so that she couldn't hurt herself.

> because they simply put any old dog with any old bitch.
>

or who see the way the winds are blowing so do the tests, think that is enough but have no understanding or interest in the health issues arising from exaggerations that don't carry a test or temperament or maintaining type, sensible healthy but true type.

Keeping that little cav in agony JUST for the cameras was beyond dreadful!
Comparing those people breeding dogs to the Nazis was deeply offensive.
No praise for the cav club health officer standing up to the show winner and declaring the truth.
No praise for those spending a fortune on health testing and NOT breeding those that fail, and there are so many like that.
No sensible advice,like... buy a cav pup from fully tested parents and see the health results before you part with your money

It was called "pedigree dogs exposed" but in fact it was about a very small number of breeds and some fools and rogues breeding them.
What will it result in?
People buying cross breed pups from EXACTLY the same puppy farmers who breed the pure breeds or from the ignorant pet breeder who doesn't even know or care about the problems in the parents and uses the easily available stud dog from the puppy farm.
Breed Rescue inundated with perfectly fit cavs or pugs because the owners are afraid.

> Keeping that little cav in agony JUST for the cameras was beyond dreadful!
>

When a dog is fitting, is it a reflex action to whine as they have control over their vocal cords like humans do when we are fitting and are they actully in pain?