My beagle bitch has just come into season for the first time at just over 9 months, she seems fine in herself, not impressed at not being able to go running round the park anymore just yet but been playing with her lots around the house and doing lots of find the treat games etc to keep her stimulated.

Just wondering really... do bitches always have phantom pregnancies after a season? How do I know if she is having one and what should I do? Can she go out forwalks etc as normal again if she does have one?

I know opinion varies on spaying - and I'd always planned to let her have at least her first season... any benefits to letting her (or not letting her) have a second? No plans to breed from her, still thinking about showing... but otherwise she is kept as a pet - possibly agility and drag hunting in the future... for which it doesn't matter if a bitch is entire or spayed does it?

Just looking for some general advice on looking after her the best I can really - have only had one bitch in season before, and she wasn't mine so I only actually looked after her the first few days into it, not throughout the whole heat cycle.

Thanks

I never noticed Ellie having them until 2 seasons ago when she was mated (and missed). Then she had a real pregnancy, and I've just noticed she is having another phantom after this season. In her case she just produces a tiny bit of milk, so I reduce her food slightly and increase her exercise. If your girl does any nesting or guarding toys, take them away, don't let her nest or mope, do things with her to take her mind off things. If she goes really overboard you can get some veterinary advice. If you want to do agility it would be best to wait until she is 18 months or 2 years old to spay her so all the growth plates have finished closing.

>Just wondering really... do bitches always have phantom pregnancies after a season?

Basically yes. However the degree they suffer from them varies tremendously. Some will be slightly subdued for a few days; others will go the whole hog and nest and use objects (toys, shoes, dusters etc) as imaginary puppies and guard them fiercely. Most fall somewhere in between the two extremes.

To minimise the phantom you need now to reduce the amount of protein in her food (so her body thinks food is scarce so that a litter wouldn't be viable), and when her season's finished give her loads and loads of exercise and keep her occupied. The activities you're doing with her to keep her mind occupied are ideal - keep it up!

I find raspberry leaf tablets from dorwest help to reduce the whole hog phantom pregnancy.  But I have had bitches that other than a bit of staining on the bedding you can't tell they are in heat, others seem to act as if the world is going to end and they want to protect their little part of it, mainly toys, socks, shoes, potatoes - when I dropped one, she guarded it with her life. So phantom pregnancies may always happen physically but some dogs just dont let on that they are unless they show the obvious signs of producing milk, guarding objects and trying to nest.
Vets can give an injection to dry any milk up.  And yes she can be exercised, i think it helps snap them out of it a bit quicker.

Dont know of any benefits of having or not having a second season.  For agility a bitch can be entire or spayed, but needs to be entire for showing but sounds as if you know that one already.  Not sure about drag hunting as I have never done it.

Thankfully dogs are only in heat once maybe twice a year but cats are in heat once a month, imagine having to deal with that in a dog!!

Emma

> but needs to be entire for showing

No, they don't.

You know what I mean, it is the norm for them to be entire.  No that don't have to be but you end up with scars which kills your chances on a short haired dog regardless of what people say, you have to inform the KC and have a written letter from your vet to prove the scar is from that surgery and not to correct a deformity.

So considering all that I will rephrase to stand a good chance of winning with anything but a completely rare breed they need to be entire.

Also on a personal note, I notice everytime I post you post after me to disagree regardless of what it is, I take it you dont like me but I am hear to help the other people on here and give them advice from my 46 years experience in dog showing and breeding.

Emma

(Edited for typo)

>No that don't have to be but you end up with scars which kills your chances on a short haired dog regardless of what people say

Sorry, but that's nonsense! Even on a hairless dog the spaying scar will be invisible, because it's on the belly, which is never looked at! I know many spayed smooth-coated bitches which have done extremely well, so to say that spaying destroys their chances is simply not true.

There was a spayed sheltie bitch which went Best in Show at Crufts ...

> Also on a personal note, I notice everytime I post you post after me to disagree regardless of what it is, I take it you dont like me but I am hear to help the other people on here and give them advice from my 46 years experience in dog showing and breeding.
>

I see by your profile you have posted nearly 50 times now but I don't recall responding to more than a couple of those so I think your theory is a little far fetched.
As another poster has pointed out spaying certainly does not hold back a bitch from showing as for scarring this was discussed recently and many poster commented that their bitch had no visible signs.  Even if scarring was present, as this is permitted by the KC, unlike the realignment of an undescended testicle, I doubt a judge would penalise.  You may have 46 years experience but that does not mean those that have had a couple of decades less cannot occasionally disagree with you.

The KC have changed this you do inform them the operation has been done and can download a form from the website to do so but now you longer need a supporting letter from your vet. They inturn acknowledge the notification and you are free to continue showing.

I don't think it's ever needed a vet's letter has it? Certainly back in 1993 you only had to write to the KC yourself and inform them that it had been done (no reason needed) and they'd acknowledge that and give permission to continue showing.

Erm yes I believe originally you did need to give a reason for a bitch to be spayed and have a vets letter of comfirmation, as after all shows started out as exhibitions of breeding stock and neutering was treated  the same as other procedures such as cruciate repair, hernia repair etc.

I know that back in the late 70s and early 80s you could only show a spayed bitch or castrated dog if they already had registered progeny, but even then you didn't have to give a reason for the neutering. I'm not certain when the necessity for previous breeding was dropped, but it was definitely before 93 (because my Polly was never bred from but I still have the KC letter)!

The vet's letter bit must have come in after 93, because it wasn't necessary before then.

Well I know my sister-in-law submitted a vets letter but that may have been due to the nature of her bitches spay as she had to be spayed during the removal of mumified puppies. The form on the KC site asks for the vets details presumably to be able to check if someone else disputes the procedure carried out.

It could be that she submitted a vet letter even though it wasn't required, just to be on the safe side.

It was asked for.
Edited to add perhaps they did this randomly or in this case wanted clarification for some reason ,if it wasn't routine.

I'm sure permission to show used to appear in the Kennel Gazette with a reason ie unwanted fertility so perhaps if the spay was for some other reason then a vets comment might have been required were all these others went through on the nod.

Possibly we just assumed after speaking to other exhibitors that it was routine.

> she seems fine in herself

not sure if anyone else has found this but with our girls its always seemed the first season is easiest and they get a bit 'stronger' as they get older. our most recent was mainly just irritated by hers.

the games etc are the best idea as if you let her mope she probably will and get very gloomy.

> any benefits to letting her (or not letting her) have a second? No plans to breed from her, still thinking about showing

as the others have said its better for her growth to wait a bit. if your not certain about showing, or possibly from that breeding, then id say wait. it's a very perminant thing to do if your not certain yet so whats a bit of hassle at the moment to being certain about what you want to do with her. it certainly won't do her harm if you don't for a while (as long as you keep an eye on her obviously just in case :)) and surely better to take time to be sure than jump in an regret it

Thank you Astarte for bringing it back on topic, was just about to tell myself off for going slightly off topic for so long on the OP's post

Thanks for all your replies guys, will keep an eye on her over the next few weeks!

It was mainly for showing that I wasn't sure about the rules on spaying, but that's still a maybe (we only managed one ringcraft class before she came into season!) and I think breeding is best left to the experts.

I won't rush into it, will leave her a bit longer

Thanks x