we have one of our 11 month old pups back for 2 weeks hols....its not easy as he is really a handful....but we said he could come and thats that. On the 2nd day here he pushed his luck too far with the dominant male and got a single bite to his shoulder. However this has since abcesed and he has had to go to our vets to have a drain put in and 2 weeks of antibiotics. All in all its added up to about £300.
I know he is insured....so now i am in a dilema....do i pay it (it was mine who bit him after all) or do i pay the excess and ask the owners to claim fotr the rest? I certainly cannot afford to have him come and stay too often at this rate (i do it as a favour and as a kind breeder....no money involved!)

I would pay the excess and ask them to claim for the rest of it on their insurance.  If you didn't have any arrangements in place for what to do in case of accidents then it would seem fair BUT as they had used you as free kenneling for 2 weeks I would expect them to then offer to reimburse you for the excess.

yep, im with cheekychow, get them to claim, the only problem being is as it was your dog who bit him they could counter-claim (I think thats the word) the money from you.  when my parents claimed for their dog being attacked the insurance company wanted to know if they knew whos dog it was.

I would pay it in full. 

It was your dog who bit the other one, so you are responsible, insurance or not. 

Since you didnt ask for money for the kenneling for two weeks, you cant hold them to "well you got free kenneling". 

I would ask myself, what would I want done, if the tables were turned and it was my dog who was bit by the other dog.

I'd pay the money and encourage the owner to get some decent training sorted out for the pup.  If this had happened in the park you'd pay the vets fees without a second thought so I think in this case it'd be the right thing to cover the costs - and be 'busy' the next time they ask you to look after him!!

I would also agree with paying the excess and get them to claim.

Afterall, if as you say it was an unprovoked attack, why feel totally responsible. If it did happen in the park as a previous poster said, if the attack was initiated by the dog that got bitten it was not your dogs fault.

It seems as if the young pup has not been taught some doggy manners otherwise he would not have continued to push it so it's owners have to take some responsibility.

i agree with cheekychow... in fact it would not even occur to me to do otherwise as if it were my dog that i'd left with someone i'd expect to pay his vet bills myself. they knew that he was a naughty teenager (assume thats what sam means) and that she has an older male so it was surely always a possibility the situation would arrise? i'd also expect to pay for any damage that sams boy might have had from the encounter. i'd be stunned if they didn't offer!

but thats just me, i feel if i chose to leave my dog in a house with other dogs if there was a prob it would be largely down to my choice of 'kennel'.

i'd also be bringing back a lovely prezzy for the inconvenience :) (will be doing this for mum and dad when they temporarily take tio back if i go on hols)

Sorry might sound harsh, but they gave you thier pup because YOU said you would take him and with that comes responsibility of the pup and his surroundings, if you never intended to pay any fees for things that happen, you should have written a contract up saying so otherwise I think you owe these people all the treatment which needs to be done and shouldnt ask for a penny, as imagine if you took your dog to a kennels, it was bitten and then they asked you to pay?! You would laugh in their faces and say see you in court if they wonuldnt pay! Why? cause its the kennels fault something happened and as the people were away entrusting their dog to you it was your fault something happened because if you knew he was a handful and you had a dominant male he shouldnt have been allowed with the dominant dog in the first place just incase of an accident happening, harsh but true!

You need to pay what surgery or treatment needs to be done/has been done and also any after treatment and not expect the owners to damage their no claims discount because YOUR dog bit him, I find that so outragous that you would even think about asking THEM for the money?????!!!!!!!!
Im sorry but I cant believe people are saying the people on holiday should pay when they get back, what a present to come home too! lol if you house dogs you also need to have the insurance to cover it (or an insurance which kennels have) which you didnt so I dont see why these people should suffer when they gave their dog to you in good faith and an accident hapened fair enough, but if I was them and you asked me to pay I would 1 tell you where to go and fast and 2 I would expect an apology fron you about your dog biting mine!

Maybe in future dont offer to kennel dogs as you dont seem to be able to cover yourself if something happens or if someone takes you to court due to something happening to their dog and you cant or wont pay, just some advice :)

er rach i didn't kennel anyones dog... was that reply ment for sam?

> lol if you house dogs you also need to have the insurance to cover it

so as a free favour they asked for shes supposed to pay for insurance?

> if you knew he was a handful and you had a dominant male he shouldnt have been allowed with the dominant dog in the first place just incase of an accident happening, harsh but true!
>

would you say that to his owners who know him and chose to ask sam for the favour?

they have put sam out by asking for her to take the dog, house him, feed him, no doubt give up certain activities etc to be able to watch him, and put her dogs at risk by having him there, all of which sam has accepted because thats waht friends and breeders do but surely its been enough of a favour without shelling out £300

Yeah that was meant for Sam not you mate :)

Why offer a favour if you feel uncomftable about it? Its not the peoples fault their puppy was allowed to mix with a dominant dog, it shouldnt have happened, we all preach here about watching who our dogs mingle with and here was a bad choice which resulted in a bite, not the owners fault, but sams fault for letting them together.

what would you say that to his owners who know him and chose to ask sam for the favour?

I would say that he will learn from now on not to offer favours which are unsuitable to him and his lifestyle, no one forced him at gunpoint to take the dog so how can he ask for the money? Its unbelievable its even being thought about asking for payback!
The owners shouldnt have to pay a penny, the rule of thumb is the dog which attacks another dog or bites it, the owner pays the price, no difference here.
Sam didnt have to take the dog but he did and the owers should have been made aware he was unhappy about doing it and he has dominant dogs which may cause problems, he didnt warn them and he took the responsibility so therefor he must pay the price of the treatment and regard it as one of lifes lessons and not to offer to kennel dogs anymore.

I hope the people will take their dog to a peoper kennel next time and not ask people for favours, espically people who do not actully have kennels or the proper insurance to cover themselves, it puts the dog at risk and thats what Im most worried about.

Rach,

FYI - Sam is female not male and one of the oldest and most respected posters on the board and breeds a highly specialised breed of dog that most kennels wouldn't know anything about, and taking the puppy back while the owner is on holiday is something that pretty much all respectable breeders do (assuming they have the space to do so).

ETA - oldest in the length of time she's posted on here, not in age.

>taking the puppy back while the owner is on holiday is something that pretty much all respectable breeders do (assuming they have the space to do so

Yes, and I've done it myself - but at my own risk. 'Proper' boarding kennels have insurance for this sort of thing - so that owners aren't faced with a large bill if something goes wrong. This is the same principle - Sam was 'in loco parentis' as it were - it was Sam's responsibility to make sure her charge was kept safe.

ETA - oldest in the length of time she's posted on here, not in age.

LOL I like how you quickly added that!

Sorry Sam for calling you a male, apologies :)

Even if you ave all the knowledge in the world people still make mistakes as we are not perfect and this is ones of sams mistakes, i still stand by what I said when I say Sam should pay for the full treatment and not ask for the money, top breeder or not, her dog bit another one and if it was on a walk she would have to pay, so whats so different now, because it was at her home and she was doing a favour its ok if her dogs bite and she shouldnt have to pay? sorry hun but I still think she should pay the amount and be more careful in future.

I appreciate breeders kennel as a favour as my breeder offeres that too, but she wouldnt kennel just any dogs that are brought back at the detriment of her own or herself and surely thought goes into it for any breeder, and if you are such a responsible breeder why take dogs your not happy looking after and if they will have a bad influence on yours or something could happen like it did.
Live and learn is the motto! :)

> The owners shouldnt have to pay a penny, the rule of thumb is the dog which attacks another dog or bites it, the owner pays the price, no difference here.

??? the young dog was pushing it and was put in his place, that to me sounds like the youngster started it. just because they lost doesn;t mean the owner of the dog that won should pay the price. if a chihuahua decided it wanted to take on one of yours and recieved a bite would you expect to pay the bills?

and got a single bite to his shoulder

A bite, Astarte not a warning nip or shove tp tell him go away, but a BITE, a BITE which got infected so muct have been at least an open wound to get infected, so no not just a warning bite im afraid but a proper one.

LOL its not about the dog who won gets away with the price, my god !!!!!
Sams dog bit another she must pay for any ops or treatment as she has done which I respect but its the asking back for I totally do not agree with, we would all pay the fines or fees for treatment if our dogs bit someone or something so I really dont see why she should be any different!

Look at it this way astarte, your dog is on a walk and attacks a pup cause the pup is jumping over the top with him, your dog bites the pup so hard it becomes infected (not just a play bite, I know play bites as my staffies play fight and never break skin) you wouldnt pay? seriously?? Even tho your dog bit another?? Is it now the case of well if he asked for it he deserved it and Im not gonna pay for the damages?

Astarte, the traditional 'gentleman's agreement' about dog fights is that each owner pays the other dog's vet bill - ie, both owners pay for the damage their dog caused.

Well  personally if i was you would pay the full amount, however if i was the other party i would insist i reimbursed you, sorry that doesn't help really does it.
with regards to insurance depending whats left after the excess they may not want to claim.

Its like JG said its the gentlemanly thing to do, if you dog attacks abnother you pay for it, you dont try and fob blame off on othersb saying your dog aggrivated mine as your dog should be trainied well enough not to bite others accidents do happen but you still have vet bills to pay, If its your dog who has done the deed you pick up the tab, pure and simple and honest.

lol @ Bernbese baby, I had to chuckle at your post :)

I appreciate you were doing the pups owner a favour Sam, but still your dog bit their pup so I think you do have to pay up.

I've kept a couple of my pups for their owners while on holiday and although my 'boss dog' likes these girls when they visit he isn't sure about them staying so I don't take any chances. One of the pups (now 3 years old!) in particular is an only dog and doesn't seem to have any idea about doggy manners - if left to her own devices she would wander up and take Tchis bone off him while he was glaring a warning at her! I keep them separate when I can't watch them like a hawk.

If he had been taken ill when with you I would expect his owners to pay as this could happen at theirs too but in this case I think it's your responsibility.

That said dog insurance doesn't have a no claims system so I suppose it wouldn't hurt to claim the rest?

wow...think i am off to find out where the "ignore" button is for one poster :)

Feel Free Hun lol :)

well as my dog is dog aggressive and is always held on a double lead and never allowed to approach other dogs that we don't know and the owners of any dogs that approach would be asked to remove their dog from his reach then no i would not pay, they should be able to call there dog back when asked, as i keep mine under control it is their fault and i would be extremely angry with them for being complisit in continuing my dogs unacceptable behaviour.

you don't know the circs of what happened, if the youngster started things its not the olders fault he finished them. if the older warned him off and the pup didn't take a telling things escalate, often very quickly before people can intervene

and clearly in this situation we would not all pay as the thread seems mainly to be saying no.

>and clearly in this situation we would not all pay as the thread seems mainly to be saying no.

Sadly, gentlemanly behaviour is very much on the wane in all aspects of modern life. :(

I am in a position where my breeder takes my dogs if I need her to, and I take hers. This means I can look at it from the perspective of both you and your pups owners.
When I take another persons dog into my home, I accept that each dog becomes my responsibility. If a dog became spontaneously ill, the dog owner would bear the financial responsibility, but of course I would pay any up front bills, to be reimbursed. In the event of any injury, I would have to take each case on its merit. If a dog got hurt during normal play, then I would class that the same as if it got ill. If however it got hurt due to a circumstance that could have been avoided, then I would offer to pay. Now as my dogs are themselves insured, if my boy bit one of the visiting dogs, I would claim off my boys third party insurance. If for example a dog escaped (as one did), I would consider it my responsibility to pay, as I would consider it my fault for not making sure it did not escape. ( I found the escapee thank God). I have looked after many dogs at my home, with my dogs, and I think it is fair to say that I monitor their relationships closely, and separate if there is any sign of conflict......and there are usually signs leading up to any event. If I had a dominant dog that was likely to put a pup in its place more strongly than a bit of shouting, I probably would not take the pup in the first place ( or would make separation arrangements).
Now from the alternative perspective, when my breeder takes my dogs, I consider that my two are insured. If they got ill, I pay. If they got injured, I pay. Unless she was really really neglectful, I would probably agree to claim off my own insurance anyway, even if it was her fault or her dogs fault.
There is more at stake here than just "who is legally responsible". I would hope that the relationship between both parties would not be spoiled by such thoughts. I would NEVER fall out with my breeder over such a thing personally.

I consider that if I care for a dog in my home, I am responsible for what happens to it. If my dog bit another, I would consider it MY fault and my responsibilty.

thankfully never something i've directly experienced (touch wood). that seems a little unfair if the other dog started it though- for example jg, if a dog started on yours and your defended itself rather more effectively than the other ones attack would you say to the other owner "terribly sorry my dog had to defend itself, let me know how much the vet charges". i know thats not the exact circs with sams dog but her boy probably felt he was defending himself/his territory and poss his bitches (not knowing sams set up though). i agree it seems he took it a bit far though.

i don;t think its something sam should have to pay but i do know that i'd maybe feel a bit responsible (depending on exactly what happened, lapse of concentration or a stranger not keeping them seperate or something)

So let me get this right Astarte and correct me if Im wrong,

Your view is this : if the youngster started things its not the olders fault, he finished them
That means you condone dogs being aggressive and violent or even biting towards puppies or smaller dogs who sometimes get too much?
Of course like you say if its outside and your dog is leashed, I would be stupid to let my dog run up to yours and I have this way of seeing things too, but if its in a GARDEN where no one is leashed, would you put a puppy in the same place as your aggressive dominant dog? NO you wouldnt! and thats why the OP should pay, because she did just that and an accident happened.

If my puppy was attacked just for being a puppy then I would expect the person whos dog it was to pay in full, whether it happened in a garden or a playing field (provinding I hadnt let him run up to a leashed dog as mentioned earlier as I fully resepct people methods to stop dog attacks), a dog biting is not acceptable under any circumstances what so ever no matter how you dress it up and you shouldnt make by ways for aggressive dogs or dominant dogs to get away with biting or killing another animal because 'its how he is' or 'your dog provoked it' stance.

If you have an aggressive dog dont let it mingle with other like you do Astarte, maybe if Sam had done the same, espically with an older dog and a boisterous puppy she wouldnt be in this predicament, as anyone knows to put these 2 together was gonna cause some play fighting and if you dog is a known aggressive why chance it thats what I cant get!!!!!!

And for your info Astarte seems plenty of people who are now logging seem to think Sam should pay the bill, and JG I agree with you its sad that kind of person is dying out :( :(

As this was an advice gathering post and Sam has not chosen to give her decision on the matter then jumping to unfounded conclusions about her decision is premature at the very least.

> That means you condone dogs being aggressive and violent or even biting towards puppies or smaller dogs who sometimes get too much?
>

i certainly do not and i think you know you've deliberately twisted my word there rach85 which there is really no need for. as i also said earlier i think this particular dog went to far but as we do not know the exact circs of the fight we can't really comment

> but if its in a GARDEN where no one is leashed, would you put a puppy in the same place as your aggressive dominant dog? NO you wouldnt! and thats why the OP should pay, because she did just that and an accident happened.
>

sorry where did you get that info? i seem to have missed the post with mention of the garden senario etc. as far as i saw there was no mention of the exact situation of the fight so how do we know they were normally in together? it could well have been that someone opened a door at the wrong time or whatever

> If you have an aggressive dog dont let it mingle with other like you do Astarte, maybe if Sam had done the same, espically with an older dog and a boisterous puppy she wouldnt be in this predicament

who said the dog was normally aggressive? this may have been the first time he ever acted this way

> And for your info Astarte seems plenty of people who are now logging seem to think Sam should pay the bill, and JG I agree with you its sad that kind of person is dying out :-(

having read the updated posts now i see there are those who disagree, fair enough, its a discussion rach, we all have different views and there is absolutely no need to twist the words of those who diagree with you

> we would all pay the fines or fees for treatment if our dogs bit someone or something

It depends on the situation. I have before had my dog on a short lead on walks and others have come up and had a go at him - in those circumstances I would NOT pay. He has been had multiple times - never badly - worst was when he was attacked by an out of control dog, and I actually had hold of my dog by the harness at my left side - so in those circumstances if he had managed to get a bite in on the other dog I would certainly not have offered to pay - as it is, it was him that got bitten....

In terms of the OP - would you be asking for the money if the dog wasn't insured? I am trying to think - as there were several years that I looked after a friend's dog for 3\4 wks in the summer - for free - while they were away. On two occasions he needed vet treatment but neither was to do with injuries from my dog, and I'm not sure whether I would have asked for money had it been my dog that injured him.  I would have discussed it with the and I suspect they would have offered anyway. But not sure on that one - really does depend on the circs...

> Astarte said - well as my dog is dog aggressive and is always held on a double lead and never allowed to approach other dogs that we don't know and the owners of any dogs that approach would be asked to remove their dog from his reach then no i would not pay, they should be able to call there dog back when asked

I can sympathise but think you're wrong too :D I have a dog aggressive dog and do everything possible to ensure other dogs safety. He is walked with a halti and harness and muzzled when off lead and also I walk very early in the morning (just back now). However should a dog come up to him and get bitten despite my asking the other dogs owner to call it back and despite Mr Beastly warning it off - it would still be MY fault and I would still offer to pay any vet bills. It's a fact that a lot of off lead dogs do not have 100% recall - some are young and learning, some are simply untrained but they don't deserve to get bitten and their owners don't deserve a vet bill in my opinion :)

Hi Sam, what a shame this has happened, especially when you were helping someone out. If it were me I'm afraid I'd pay the bill myself and wouldn't ask for any money. I know you were doing them a favour by having the dog, but if it were me, I'd still feel responsible if my dog caused the damage. Hope you can resolve this quickly :-)

Sam, not sure if this has been mentioned, but as it was your dog that did the damage can you not claim from your insurance?

What a rubbish thing to have happened when you were doing a favour. But if it was me I would pay the bill.

If this happened to my dog whilst someone had been kind enough to look after it whilst I went on holiday I would offer to pay half, I think that would be fair because it was your dog that bit hers BUT you were doing her a big favour.......you never know what shes going to offer to do, I think 50/50 would be fair though.

As someone who owns a large boisterious pup of 7months, the kind who would push his luck with adult dogs (and frequently does) i think i would offer to pay the full amount or half. I know my boy is a pest and as much as I trust my breeder to look after him, not that shes had to as yet, nobody can physically watch a dog for 24 hours a day, and I would take some of the responsibility, unless the attack was unprovoked.

> do i pay the excess and ask the owners to claim fotr the rest?

If it was my pup that had been bitten (knowing he was being a pain in the rear & deserved it) I would think this very fair. :)

> I can sympathise but think you're wrong too :D I have a dog aggressive dog and do everything possible to ensure other dogs safety. He is walked with a halti and harness and muzzled when off lead and also I walk very early in the morning (just back now). However should a dog come up to him and get bitten despite my asking the other dogs owner to call it back and despite Mr Beastly warning it off - it would still be MY fault and I would still offer to pay any vet bills. It's a fact that a lot of off lead dogs do not have 100% recall - some are young and learning, some are simply untrained but they don't deserve to get bitten and their owners don't deserve a vet bill in my opinion :-)

This worries me - my Mastiff is not aggressive, but everydog has it's limits - if a dog was pestering him while he was on his lead I would assume that if he defended himself he would not be at fault. I don't see why I should give consideration to people who can't controll thier dogs while mine is always on-lead (not for aggression, but simply because the look of him worries people). I think I will start booting dogs out of the way so my Mastiff is never held acountable for self defence :( - I always thought that me & my dogs don't deserve to get pestered by others - I wouldn't dream of allowing my Mastiff loose to pester another - even though I know he only wants to play.

As for as the pup with the OP - it was his fault, pups push thier luck & the OP was not being irresponsible by allowing the dogs together - puppies learn best from being with other dogs not being seperated from them, it's a shame the bite got infected (infection is nothing to do with the 'seriousness' of a wound - my sisters pup lost an eye through infection from a tiny surface scratch from the cat).
Dogs can't be expected to communicate with other dogs in any language other than 'dog'.

i'm not suggesting in any way that they deserve to get bitten but if you;ve done everything in your power to prevent it from happening and the other dogs owner doesn;t then why is it your fault?

A difficult situation but, in these circumstances, I would pay the bill myself if I was looking after someone else's dog and mine bit the other dog. I know many breeders will board the dogs they have bred and I would imagine most owners choose this over boarding kennels because the breeder is a known entity and has excellent knowledge of their breed.

It's hard to find a way to say this that doesn't sound as though I am being disrespectful which is certainly not my intention but - I am surprised that the young dog was in a position to have been able to step so far out of the boundaries that another older dog felt it had to put him in his place. Maybe the incident all happened so fast that it wasn't possible to do anything about it and I realise accidents can happen and happen really fast. Introducing an outside dog into another dog's home is not the easiest of situations so am just a little surprised that the two dogs were together if the newcomer was way over the top and pushing the boundaries as it seems he was doing.

I obviously don't know anything about the set up Sam has with her dogs but would have thought an outside dog would only have been taken in if there were the facilities to separate him from the "home" dogs.

Hi sam im in a very similar situation apart from the vets, 11 months old pup im looking after. Hes not had very much training or socialisation and he challenged my male, trying to hump his mum my who mason sees as his bitch and even humping him! so he had enough and mason has never ever retaliated in a fight but this time he did, he put him in his place but no harm done the pup still hasnt really learnt. I would pay excess and get them to claim for the rest, afterall the pup 'started it' through lack of doggy manners, and unfortunatly someone got hurt. They are not losing out or having to cough up themselves the insurance is so its no biggy. He is a naughty pup, and paid the consequence. It is so hard looking after dogs that are not your own, they have no manners and are not in sync with your own doggy pack and its very frustrating indeed.

Louise

If it was my dog I would pay the whole amount and claim it in the insurance...
No way would I expect the person who was kind enough to look after my dog for free to pay for my dog's treatment even if it was their dog that caused it.
In the end if I had not put my dog with them, their dog would have not bitten it!
I'm sure Sam was not expecting damage to be done and would have separated the two if she thought this was likely to happen.
How often do you really get damage when older dog tells youngster off? Not very often, in this case the scratch got infected (probably lot to do with the weather at the moment) causing the vet bills.
Accidents happen and that is why you have insurance.

Would claiming definately mean their insurance will go up and would it actually go up a large amount?
If it would, maybe you should offer to go 50/50 as £150 is a lot less and you both could afford that better, meaning they do not need to claim?

I'm currently looking after friends dog for 3 weeks and would not expect to pay if he for example walked on glass...
This would in a way be my fault as I did not look carefully enough and he managed to cut himself.
In the end isn't the insurance there so it can be used if the dog needs medical care, what ever the reason.

If my dog attaked somebody elses while on the walk I would of pay for the treatment.
In my eyes these circumstances are different to that though and I think the insurance should be used!

>I'm currently looking after friends dog for 3 weeks and would not expect to pay if he for example walked on glass...

I would! While the dog's in my care I'm responsible for it - it's exactly the same as if it happened to one of my own dogs.

> Astarte said - i'm not suggesting in any way that they deserve to get bitten but if you;ve done everything in your power to prevent it from happening and the other dogs owner doesn;t then why is it your fault?

Simply because we know our dogs are aggressive, and we haven't done everything in our power to stop the other dog getting bitten - our dogs could be muzzled. If you choose to walk your dog aggressive dog without a muzzle and another dog gets bitten then it's your fault in my opinion. I do the same as you though, I choose not to muzzle Tchi when he's on lead - I weigh up the risks versus his happiness. I walk him at a very quiet time, with leads he can't escape from so it's unlikely something will come up to him while he's leaping around barking at it - but if it did - and he bit it, I would certainly offer to pay any vets bills.

i'm not saying set in stone i would not pay for it, but i think if someone is repeatedly asked and warned to keep their dog away its their fault. i have tio on a halti as well as his collar with leads on both and he is usually walked by my very strong partner who would be removing him from the situation as soon as the dog was spotted, i'd also be trying to divert the dog as well, so if one came up to him i would feel it was the fault of its owner. to be honest though i live in badly trained staff-ish-thing chav central who have dogs of a similar temp as tios dark side and do not lead them etc. as such my idea of what might happen is prob different from yours- i.e. an aggressive off lead dog starts on him, in which case its in my view definately not our fault. if it were a friendly dog i'd distract it with well placed black pudding etc till liam and tio got away to avoid it all together.

Ive said all I have to say on this post and hope its resovled without friendships being broken but what Astarte said got to me so im replying to her only.

Astarte this is what you said in reply to me, well a part of it any way.....

having read the updated posts now i see there are those who disagree, fair enough, its a discussion rach, we all have different views and there is absolutely no need to twist the words of those who diagree with you

If you read the very first line of my post to you I quite clearley and purposefully said, so this is your view Astarte, correct me if I am wrong Where does that say anywhere I am twisting words as I clearly stated to correct me if I had it wrong so there is absolutly no need what so ever for such a incriminising statement saying that I am twisting words you simply needed to correct me, and in answer to your further statement yes this is a discussion, so why pick just on my statements and no one elses? just because I disagree with what everyone else has said until recent posters started agreeing with the view I share it doesnt give anyone the right to try and taint my name and I will discuss my thoughts and everyone elses and would like it to be without your kind of repurcussion, thank you.

my kind of repercussion? i don't belive i suggested that you approved of viciousness in dogs, as you did of me- if that was not the intention it was certainly how it came across. though as you say it was not intended that way i think we should both calm down, clearly there has been that greatest of forum evils, misunderstanding the written word without the expression given in actual conversation.

to clarify, no i do not agree with viciousness in any dog, it is always unacceptable, i am not sure what i said to suggest such a think but i'm sure i post often enough for people to know me a little and know i certainly do not approve of that behaviour.

anyway, i'm sorry if i offended you it was not intended, i was very offended by what you said, i assume you did not intend to offend me from what you just posted, so...let us move on ok? :)

I meant the repurcussion of being accused of twisting peoples words just to clarify myself too :)
Im more then happy to move on hun and I didnt mean to offend you either, suppose in the heat of posting we forget its people were speaking too and not just txt! We will gracefully agree to disagree as people usually have to on here lol ;)

See you around! xx

It's a rather difficult situation and I read one persons opinion and it all sounds very reasonable and then I read another with a different opinion and that all sounds very reasonable too! 
I hope you come to a satisfactory resolution that leaves you both content and still on a friendly basis, Sam but the one thing I have drawn from this is to affirm my belief that it is better for all parties if dog care is always undertaken on a professional rather than ad hoc friendly basis, whether at a kennels or your own home.  Then every one knows exactly where they stand and the "carer" will always be responsible for everything that happens and have the necessary insurance to meet all eventualities.

Perhaps if you have a good relationship with the owner who I assume you do based on having taken the dog in as a favour, then perhaps you would be best asking them if it is OK to claim on the insurance. 

If you made an agreement with the owner upfront, on condition that you would take him and if anything happened, it would be claimed under the insurance, then that's totally different.  I'm assuming you didn't because you don't mention it.

On that basis and in my view, it makes no difference if the pup started it, you did it as a favour, he's bolchy, disobedient, a handful etc, etc, etc or your dog was having a bad day.

The basics are the dog was placed in your care, you agreed to have him, he got injured, and therefore the responsibility must lie with the carer to ensure their charge was kept safe from harm until the pup was handed back IMO.  

I agree Isabel - or on reflection I think if I were planning to look after anyone's dog in future I would agree with them at the start what I was and was not responsible for. The dog I used to sit died 18 months ago (not whilst under my care!) so it isn't relevant as I have no intention of looking after anyone else's dogs at present - and it simply didn't occur to me when I looked after him. On one of the two occasions he was ill while I had him, when he had cellulitis, they did mention that he had been bitten by an airedale and was a 'bit sensitive' around it - before they disappeared to France. ;-) And on the other occasion it was an ongoing medical condition he had.

But as a 'friendly' arrangement it didn't occur to me that there might be those sort of problems with vet bills etc. The only thing I asked them to do specifically before I had him was get him microchipped in case he got out or got lost.