Some of you may remember that I was posting at the end of last year/beginning of this year about my staffy's diagnosis of a luxating patella.  One of the vets at my practice said do nothing and an orthopaedic (sp) vet I went to for a 2nd opinion said to operate straight away.  I told him I needed a bit of time to think about it and in the few weeks that followed the joint stopped popping out as much and wasn't bothering her.

In the last month I have been taking my dog to hydrotherapy in order for her to lose a bit of weight - underwater poochy bootcamp was order of the day after she went to the vets and I saw she had put on a few kilos since her last visit.  Since starting at the hydrotherapy and going swimming in the sea more often she has been having problems with her leg.  I initially put it down to her banging it when she jumped off the ramp at the pool (entirely my fault as I let her go!) but it seems to get worse everytime she goes swimming.  this could be becuase she uses her legs to steer in the water but I originally thought that building up the muscle around the joint would help her.

The woman who runs the hydrotherapy pool pointed out that although she uses both legs in the pool to swim the muscle on the left side (the bad side) is very soft compared with the right leg which is rock hard.  I've also noticed that she struggles to jump up onto things sometimes and often bunny hops up stairs etc but she has always done this.  Her limping is always worse when she first gets up or moves from anything.  We went out for a 90 min walk this morning and she was running about as usual.

So the point of the post is to ask if anyone on here has experience of the benefits of hydrotherapy and whether things should get worse before they get better?  Am I doing additional damage by letting her swim (both in the sea and at the pool)?  Is there a timescale from injury/damage to arthiritis beginning?  She gets G+C sometimes but is on dry food and doesn't eat much in the summer so isn't taking it very often.

All help gratefully received as I still don't know which vet's opinion to trust.

Hi, Iv'e had luxating patella in a growing Irish Setter puppy in the past.

We were referred to an orthopaedic specialist vet who told me to give him plenty of free running and jumping and it may well right itself with time. It did.

However in an adult, although I think that the hydrotherapy can only be a good thing, maybe it will never be completely right without intervention. The operation, as I understand it, deepens the groove in which the patella rests, and therefor stops it from slipping out.

Hope you get it sorted soon. :)

Dawn R.

Others will no doubt disagree but there is little one can do to cure a luxating patella except to operate. Some small dogs manage well all their lives with slipping kneecap and compensate for it by building up muscle however larger or heaver dogs may not be able to do this and the resulting joint damage will cause pain and progressing lameness.

The operation will make the guide (groove) deeper and in bad cases the tibia crest is moved so the tendon is pulling in a straight line and not to one side.

Jackie and Dawn you are both putting across the arguments both of the vets told me, so it is good to hear it from owners with experience but which one to listen to???  I want to believe it will right itself and it is injury related rather than a conformation issue as then it may right itself but I'm starting to think I may have to bite the bullet and get the op.  i have been trying to get weight off her as the recovery from the op is likely to be easier if there is less weight on the healing leg but staffys are generally very top heavy.  What is a girl to do?

Did your dog suffer a trauma that may have cause a bone to chip or tendon to tear, if not, I would think it congenital or hereditary and I would be inclined to say it will not right it's self and all the while is slipping it will be doing damage. If it is the placement of the tendon attachment (tibial crest) or a shallow or lack of retaining groove then no amount of exercise is going to correct a fault in the bone structure.

Jackie, the first time it went was in winter and she first started limping when she had been running across some waste ground at night chasing rabbits so it could have been trauma.  It eased off and started again when she gave it a big dunt jumping off the ramp at the hydrotherapy pool onto a wet floor and her leg went out from under her.  It hasn't really been the same since.  I suppose I am just living in hope but will phone my usual vet tomorrow and get an opinion on it.

Of Course, in the end it is down to the opinion of a vet. I can only say I have had an animal who has had the operation done on both legs and he was fine, you have to be careful for a few weeks but after that it was fine and he had no problem from then on.

Jackie, did you take much time off work when your dog was recovering?  I have 2 weeks annual leave left but was hoping to knock it off a long notice period I have to give at work before starting a new job but my wee poochies welfare comes first.

Yes, I was in a position to watch him for about 8 weeks after the operation but had the added problem of other dogs around, if it is just the groove that needs deepening there is no problem after the wound has healed but if they need to move the tibial crest then it takes about 12 weeks care although not all of that in of the intensive variety.

If your dog lays quiet whilst you are out of the house then after the stitches are out there should not be a problem leaving him, it is over energetic use that can tear the small piece of bone and the screws used to attach it from the tibia that can cause the problem as should that happen the screws do damage and there is little left for the surgeon to make good, although it does happen and is repaired without trouble.

Think the best person to speak to would be the orthopaedic surgeon who will do the work, it is some years since mine was done and things do change a great deal.

>> If your dog lays quiet whilst you are out of the house

There is no moving her, she is either on the sofa or her bed and nothing moves her. lol.  I was looking for a 3rd opinion today and tried to get a referral into an orthopaedic vet in stirling but it needs to be my vet who does the referring so will go down that route.  The thing that is stressing me is that 2 professionals have entirely different opinions - aaaaargh!

thanks for your take on things, very helpful.

Suppose that a surgical vet would go down the route of surgery and if you look at what is involved there is no way, once the dog is adult, the problem will cure it's self or be cured by exercise.

Do I take it the dog in question is a Chow, if this is so you only have to look at the lack of angles in the hind leg assembly to understand why they may be prone to the problem.

>> Do I take it the dog in question is a Chow, if this is so you only have to look at the lack of angles in the hind leg assembly to understand why they may be prone to the problem.

LOL, no my username causes confusion on this site, I have a staffy.

I would have thought the leg muscle should be building up with the hydrotherapy - it sounds like she is compensating with the good leg and building the muscle up in that and trying not to use the bad leg - assuming the good leg is the one that is more muscled? In which case - from my experience with my dog with his luxating patella - you may well be having to look down the op route - but do be careful who does it - make sure you get a good orthopaedic surgeon who explains what he will be doing and why and any potential complications. HTH.

She seems to use both legs when in the water but the muscle on the right/good leg is definitely more developed.  After extensive consultation, thoughts and worry (thanks to everyone who offered their experience :) ) I phoned the ortho-vet this morning and have an appointment for Friday.  Hopefully then I will be able to get something sorted and find the best solution.

Think you have made the correct decision, ask them to explain to you exactly what is happening and what is causing it and you will be in a position to decide if your think your dogs condition will improve with out treatment or not.

> have an appointment for Friday

Hello Ali

Hope all went well for Missy today.  Let us know how you got on with your ortho consult.

Joan

Gulp.... she is going in on Wednesday at 8.30am to get the op done.  After speaking to the vet I have full trust in him and he is extremely confident it is the right thing to do but he did hold off from saying 'told you so...' lol ;)

Well, of course you will be worried but having had a long talk and made a decision I am sure you have made the right one. It will need some reorganising of your day to day life for a while but in the long run I am sure it will be worth it.

I think me and the hairy bairn will both get fatter ;)  I asked the vet how much time I would need to take off work for her recuperation and he told me she didn't need her paw held!  Put me right back in my place.  Thanks to everyone who has given support and advice both on and off forum.  You might get to hear about the Tuesday wobble but failing that I'll post a post-op update.

My bitch was really bad and needed the tibial crest moved (both.)  I took unpaid leave so she wouldn't go slipping around, and tried to keep her on carpet.  She needed both operated on, and had them done 6 weeks apart.  I felt awful, it was horrendous to be forced to put her first leg to the ground, when she wasn't really ready.  So, even if yours is that bad, I still say right decision.  That was 15 years ago, and she can still do a standing jump to my shoulder.  It would not have been fair for her to go all her life like it, I did have a superb surgeon, and had to trust him.  They splinted in those days, and I don't understand why some don't now.  It was soooo successful.  Good luck, and wish you the every best with it.  A year from now you are going to be so glad that you helped her.

Good luck - hope all goes well - will be thinking of you. :-)

Which op is he doing?

over the last couple of years there has been a rise in patella and hip problems due us humans changing your floor covering from carpet to
tiles and wooden flooring.as well as genetic heredity

the dogs slip and slide on the floor and cannot grip with their  toes,

hi i really dont want to worry anyone on her but in my case i would not recommend the op to anyone. my 2 year old springer had it in oct off who i was told was the best in the uk and one of a kind. i was told the sucess rate was 99.9% so if this is true why is my dog worse than what he was pre op. to be also told by the vet he is fine so i am left with a dog who limps more now than he ever did.
x

mmmmm my specialist said my dogs tendon was moved however i never realised his case was tjhat bad, the more i hear of this op the more confused i get
x

which specialist is doing the op
x

> hi i really dont want to worry anyone on her but in my case i would not recommend the op to anyone.

Thanks for telling me now that I am back from the vets after missy getting the op done today ;)

All appears to have gone well.  She had a combination of both ops done where the groove was deepened and the ligaments tightened and a bit of bone was moved and pinned into place.  She has been shaved from ankle to a**e and is looking very sorry for herself.  she has already been trying to put it down and has been outside for a pee and eaten some choc buttons and a bit of pate.  I'm going to sleep downstairs with her tonight and have borrowed a cage from my dog walker that is much bigger than mine so she can stretch her leg out at any jaunty angle she likes.  We are going back on Monday for a checkup but so far all seems well.  fingers xed it stays that way.

ETA:  Kay I would prefer not to name the surgeon on the forum but he is local to me and has a great reputation and I definitely felt at ease with him.

wer abouts you from or do you not want to say. sorry for telling you but just we have had a nightmare with my dels legs. and i was told the specialist was amazing and was the only one in the coutry to be able to perform both legs together and be able to walk on it immediately after, just goes to show tho. i thought my dog had his groove deepended but today he made it sound like he had moved  it not deepened it. i hope your dog recovers well tho. and apparantly i read on here that its not as bad having id deepend as it was moved which i was told nothing about. if your dog was bad pre op i guess you had no other choice but just in my case i never felt like my dog was that bad.
xx

Glad to hear Missy is home and enjoying some extra special pampering.

Cheekychow, glad to hear all seems to have gone well, it seems your dog has had the same as my dog did, he had it done on both legs and was fine after the healing period had passed. We did have on panic because about a week after the first was done he fell out of the back door and screamed. We thought he may have broken the screws away but all was well and within the year he could move better than he ever could.

right, here is my first post surgery query...  She is putting her foot down today and appears to be trying to put weight on it.  Bearing in mind that she is a staffy and very stoic with a high pain threshold is this a bad thing?  She hasn't had any painkillers as she hasn't eaten her food today but has had her anti-biotics.  Is she more likely to do more damage by trying to put weight on it already?