> Anyway owner said "she has dropped early";
>

Call me cynical....... but this 'breeder' will be already spending the money she will be getting from the line of little 'Chavs' queueing up for a cheap Dobe.......... and the rest will go down to the nearest shelter IMO.
I suspect she just had the vain hope that you would allow her to register them and get a few more quid. Sorry but the more I see of people - the more I love my dogs!

Stealing her puppies or rearing them for her is just plain daft especially with the hope the parents health test clear.

>As for people lying. If I get a wiff that a pet puppy buyer already have a dog and want a bitch, yes I meet the dog and yes I check it's castrated! If they had a bitch, (I also do not like them to be spayed under 18months), but sorry again would want to meet the bitch and yes I would check for a scar.<

Would agree with you that I would not sell as you state a bitch to a home with an uncasrated male unless they were breeders I knew and trusted. As to your comment about the purchase of a male dog and checking for a spay scar on a bitch, my vet glues the bitches back together rather than stitch so there is no visible scar to be be seen. So how could you tell in that case?

I have a speyed bitch, there is no scar at all!  she also had a mammary removed, no scar there either, just a missing nipple!  She came home and all stitches were on the inside of the spey scar, it was amazing!

I have a 3 1/2 YO spayed bitch that was spayed 1 year ago.
I checked her and you cannot see the Scar at all!!!! And this is a rottie bitch and doesnt have much hair on her stomach!!!!
Lea :)

I have a hairy 6 year old who was spayed at six months and you can definately tell she has a scar if she is on her beck ...

Of course fitness to breed is not just on health tests - I would like to add this bitch was sold as a pet with a contract and endorsements and was not even pick of litter. 

I have her sister here who has had ALL recommended health tests plus, Thyroid, Colesterol, Liver and Kidney Tests for my own peace of mind, she is also a top winneer at CH Shows and Crufts - she doesnt have a litter of 13 puppies to rear even though I have waiting lists years in advance - I dont do it for money.

Sorry if this is harsh but my gripe is with the owner of the bitch I sold, she was made aware of contract and endorsements and as a breeder of another breed there is no reason why she shouldnt know the ins and outs, plus her 'friend' will advise.  Im not threatened by name dropping as I dont show anymore so the damage cant be done.

If male is unreg I cant take on litter, anyway why should I?  I feel for the bitch and puppies but this is her mess not mine.  There are even CH Show judges who cant sell their puppies at the mo, im lucky to have waiting lists well in advance.  For all I know these pups could be sold on and used for breeding in future - which makes me even more cross.

Had she phoned me early on about the so called accidental mating I could have advised her or even if she expressed an interest in breeding I could have helped, rather that than someone do what she has done.  I hope she decides to send the bitch back to be for spaying and rehoming tbh. 

If the male comes back as Reg and health tests OK could I (if I wanted to) lift the ban for this litter and then put the ban back on the bitch?  I have people waiting for puppies and have no puppies available and I know I could home 7-8 of them and thats without advertising with breed clubs or breed forums.
x

> If the male comes back as Reg and health tests OK could I (if I wanted to) lift the ban for this litter and then put the ban back on the bitch?&nbsp; I have people waiting for puppies and have no puppies available and I know I could home 7-8 of them and thats without advertising with breed clubs or breed forums.
> x

A person can only place endorsements on a dog they own while it is still in their physical possession.  So there is no way to remove endorsements and put them back on unless you took ownership and physical possession of the bitch until such time as you could put them back on.

Just being devil's advocate here ;)

If you remove the endorsements for this litter and then put them back on afterward, wouldn't this give the other owner a greater case with the KC for getting them taken off at a later date? 

Unless you actually had the bitch speyed before returning her, this could still mean more untested pups in the future ;)

This would't take away from the fact that the pups could be affecteds for vWD if their father is also a carrier.  If you are selling them, any trouble with health is then attributable to you :(

Just being devil's advocate here ;)

If you remove the endorsements for this litter and then put them back on afterward, wouldn't this give the other owner a greater case with the KC for getting them taken off at a later date? 

Unless you actually had the bitch speyed before returning her, this could still mean more untested pups in the future ;)

This would't take away from the fact that the pups could be affecteds for vWD, phpv etc. if the sire and dam are carriers.  If you are selling them, any trouble with health is then attributable to you :(