I have just had another enquiry via Champdogs re puppies with only one question asked - which was ' How much are they?' 

I really hate this type of enquiry and to be totally honest. I can't be bothered with them as I feel a genuine enquiry would;-
A) ask more questions about puppies and
B) at least give a little detail about themselves/family etc

How do you respond to this type of email?

When it's a phonecall I simply say "They're all sold" (even if they aren't) and hang up. (One of the best homes I got for my puppies was the one who, after a couple of long chats about their circumstances and experience, totally forgot to ask the price and had to ring back specially!)

In an email I'd be tempted to do the same - either that or just delete it.

One of the best homes I got for my puppies was the one who, after a couple of long chats about their circumstances and experience, totally forgot to ask the price and had to ring back specially

I did that, when I bought Cher.  I didnt know the price until when I went to go look at her.  And we had been talking for about a month! 

I would just reply saying that the pups are sold.  Then it doesnt look like you are a person who ignores people, cos word does get around.  And it wouldnt be words to your liking.

It is annoying when people call or email with just "how much are they".  It should be discussed, but not the first thing, and definately not the only thing. 

for starters i wouldnt reply to an email unless id had a phone call from that person before, if people cant be bothered to phone then i dont bother replying

I quite agree Jeangenie.That's exactly what I do. I also get very annoyed when potential buyers start a sentence with
' my friend says' as in 'my friend says don't buy a puppy unless it's been hip scored'. I then have to point out the 1yr old is the earliest you can hip score. Or, 'my friend says don't have the last one in the litter' and I have to point at that the clever breeders always keep the best 'til last in case it doesn't sell. I sometimes feel like saying' If your friend's such a b****y expert why isn't he breeding dogs.

when I bought Skoll it was after numerous e-mails, telephone conversations and visits - we didn't actually ask "how much" until the day we collected him and got the chequebook out!! LOL

when I've had enqs in the past, my main rule (other than asking several questions etc) is that I need to talk to the person making the enq - I don't care how many e-mails they send saying what a nice town/village they live in, how big their garden is, how experienced they are - if they don't give me a phone number or ring me on the numbers I provide - I scratch them! I can't get a feel for someone from an e-mail!!

maybe I'm a bit harsh 

When my family and I were talking about getting a puppy, a girl I used to work with asked me how much it would be.  At that point I didn't really know but gave her a ballpark figure.  She said "I'd have to find that out first as, if it was going to cost that much, I couldn't afford to want one!"

I can see your views from a breeders perspective but her view makes sense too.  It would be heartbreaking to fall in love with a breed of dog and then subsequently find you couldn't afford one.  Like you, I'd be horrified if that was the only question asked but perhaps the reason it was sent as an email rather than a phone call is that it is a only a quick check to see whether it would be feasible and it may well be followed by a period of research. 

It's fairly easy to calculate if you can afford to keep a dog, food prices, insurance, accessories and even some vet fees are available to research online and you can budget for those.  The one figure that is harder to establish is the initial outlay and that's partly because it's 'not-the-done-thing' to ask!!  It's a bit of a catch 22 - if you're going to be a responsible owner you must make sure you can afford all the costs of getting a dog BUT to appear to be a loving and responsible owner you must not ask the price of a puppy...

I'm not trying to defend the fools for whom the price is everything and I know that choosing the best homes is an incredible responsibility for you.  However it just seems that so many of these replies are quite negative and that legitimate potential owners could be missed.

Could you just use a standard type of response that explains what your breeding ethos is, explains how you select people for your puppies and invite them to contact you direct if they wish to discuss it further.  Also why not put the price, or range of prices, in if they have asked the question?  The genuine people will not be put off and the others will naturally not call you - where's the harm.

And no, we didn't ask the price either!!  We completely forgot and then we found a perfect breeder for whom we decided there was no price we wouldn't pay - she was perfect and the puppies were too. 
 

I quite agree that, at some point, the prospective buyers are going to want to know the price, but I think the point Ells Bells was trying to make is that we breeders hate it when that's the FIRST question they ask.

But, if you can't afford to buy it, whats the point of three or four longggg conversations which wastes everyones time? Why are prices not put in the puppy adverts? Why the big mystery about prices? if everything is straight forward, then everyone knows where they stand. I really can't see this thing about keeping the price a secret. 

It's no secret - but it's only commercial breeders and puppy farmers who think of 'their' puppies in monetary terms. The more caring breeders want to make sure the potential owner is suitable, not just has enough money.

It doesn't have to be 3 or 4 long conversations/emails before mentioning price.  What I said was that I hate the 'one-liners' just asking the price and giving no information about themselves or asking about availablity etc of puppies.

What makes it even worse is - when you do reply the email address isn't valid.  It's not the first time this has happened to me on Champdogs and wonder if it's people who have nothing better to do on a Sunday afternoon than send emails with ficticious email addresses enquiring about puppies - sad isn't it?

> However it just seems that so many of these replies are quite negative and that legitimate potential owners could be missed.
>

Well there are plenty of other puppies out there and people who'll sell them, they can get one from there just not from me.
My answer to those sort of calls is "no sorry".

The more caring breeders want to make sure the potential owner is suitable, not just has enough money.

Exactly!!

i hate those type of calls  . if the first question is how much ???? i always  add £200 on to the price of a pup,soon gets rid of them

You are absolutely right to hate it when it's the first question and also when it's asked in the way that Ells Bells describes.  That is no way to approach getting a new member of the family!!

I'm not suggesting, in any way, that price is the sole concern for people wishing to buy a puppy but when you consider that some dogs cost the same as a secondhand car you can understand that owners may have to save up first.  Some people may need, or want to have a rough idea of price even before they start talking to breeders.  So that this isn't the first question they ask you is there anywhere they could look?

I did a quick search and found PetPlanet here .  They quote approx prices per breed - are they accurate for your breed/s?  I checked mine and noticed that it was too low.

Is an approximate price quoted on any of your breed club sites?  This presumably is the start point for many people wishing to research their chosen breed and it would be quite useful research data, particularly if it also included a section on questions to ask the breeder, and questions the breeder will ask about you.  That way the prospective owners would also know to be cautious of breeders that didn't ask them any questions. (Interestingly even the KC guides to buying a dog don't tell you the types of questions breeders may ask)

>Is an approximate price quoted on any of your breed club sites? 

I asked about this on my breed club's forum, and the answer was "The correct price of a puppy is the breeder's expenses divided by the number of puppies in the litter."

> I checked mine and noticed that it was too low.
>
>

Me too

WOW!! about 1k too low!!!

I went to PetPlanet to see, about the Pinscher (Miniature) and this is what it said when I clicked on the link:

Sorry, we haven't profiled this breed yet, but we are adding more breeds every week, so please come back soon.

LOL

I Just went on to see about my breed(leonberger), under shedding it says ''little''...you wanna bet!!!!!!

Barbara

It's no secret - but it's only commercial breeders and puppy farmers who think of 'their' puppies in monetary terms. The more caring breeders want to make sure the potential owner is suitable, not just has enough money.

Who goes out to buy anything without knowing what the price range is, and if the price is not in the advert, how is anyone supposed to know? Of course the breeder wants to know the home is suitable, fair enough, its not just money, but on the other side of the coin the enquirer needs to know if they can afford the puppy before the in depth questions of home etc, many of which are quite personal. Say you found the absolute perfect home, right in every way, ticked all the boxes.....only to find they can't afford the full asking price, would you let a puppy go for the lower price because the home was totally perfect except for slight lack of funding? This question not just to jg, but everyone. Would you pass on an excellent home for money?

>Who goes out to buy anything without knowing what the price range is

If I'm going to buy on a whim then I won't do any research. If I've put serious thought into what I think I want, then price will certainly come into the equation at some point so that I know how much I have to save.

For example, I've been thinking of getting a different breed in a few years time. I've read a lot about them and I've spoken to breeders in person on the phone at length about them. From what I've learned I don't think that breed will be for me .... but I still have no idea how much a puppy would cost!

>Say you found the absolute perfect home, right in every way, ticked all the boxes.....only to find they can't afford the full asking price, would you let a puppy go for the lower price because the home was totally perfect except for slight lack of funding?

Yes, and I have done.

Actually it doesn't bother me at all that this is the first question, better that they ask straight away and realise whether they can afford one or not, than spend months e-mailing, talking to them and when the time comes all of a sudden they can't afford one.

I have to say that I'm actually getting fed-up of seeing adverts with POA, if I had to advertise I would put the price on.

I Just went on to see about my breed(leonberger), under shedding it says ''little''...you wanna bet!!!!!!

Maybe they meant little time without shedding??  lol

Would you pass on an excellent home for money?

I think it would depend on the circumstances.  I have heard of breeders doing "payment plans" in which until the pup is paid in full, they dont release the papers to said pup.  But I would have to feel that I really knew the person.  I wouldnt do it for someone who just enquired a month ago, but for maybe a breeder of pins???

But if they dont have the money for the dog, I would question whether or not they have the money to take care of the dog in the long run. 

My mom always taught me that if I dont have the money for it, I dont get it, or I save up. 

But it would be nice to know how much a dog is before hand, at least a ball park figure (breed wise).  I was shocked when I found out the price for a Doberman, when the last time I inquired about the breed, they were $800, only to find out now they are close to $2000.  Prices change.  It wasnt that long ago (about a year and a half ago) that I was looking at purchasing a dobe.  Then when I enquire now, the price has skyrocketed. 

Say you found the absolute perfect home, right in every way, ticked all the boxes.....only to find they can't afford the full asking price, would you let a puppy go for the lower price because the home was totally perfect except for slight lack of funding? This question not just to jg, but everyone. Would you pass on an excellent home for money?

I had a family wanting a puppy a couple of years ago now - who even after 2 visits didn't enquire the price and when they eventually did ask were shocked at the amount - I think they had seen the same breed advertised in our local Friday-Ad by puppy farmers for a great deal less.  At the time, I didn't let them have a puppy but I have had regrets ever since and should the situation arise again I would more than likely let them have a pup at a reduced price - if I thought the pup would be given a genuine loving home.

I've also let people have a puppy at a reduced price because they could obviously give it a wonderful home. I think everybody is missing the point here. Ok, you do need to know if you can afford the initial outlay and how long you would have to save up. I wouldn't condemn somebody if they rang me and said something like' I am looking into the possibility of buying a puppy, I have done some research into the breed and decided this is the breed for me. I can offer a good home, somebody is at home for most of the day, we have a garden and I understand the amount of care and excercise involved. Please could you give me an idea of the price of your puppies'. That's hardly months of e mailing and visits is it. The people I object to are the people who ring you up and the first words out of their mouth is 'how much are your puppies'.

Another favourite with a certain breed is ''do they have blue eyes?''

My parents got this quite a lot with the 2 litters they've bred
Whoever asked that were told all the pups were sold

If this were to be the only question, then the honest truth is no I would not write this person off immediately, I would put the time in to ask more about them, their situation etc, truth is, the general public are not like those of us with dogs and used to the way things run, they often don't know what they are supposed to ask, or put forward with regards to themselves or their situations.

They may very well know all about the breed, have spent a lot of time researching and are now purely just looking for that special breeder, some people will spend a whole year saving for their special pup, of course they need to know the cost, it does not always tally that they are looking for the cheapest dog, or are only money orientated, it may well just be the last point of call for this potential puppy buyer.

They may very well have read up on the breed, seen them at shows, (though many have never been to shows, but have an interest in doing so with a pup they may buy and are learning from step one) I don't just see myself just as a breeder but someone who will help even those enquiring, to even end up going to another breed entirely if I feel it needs pointing out.

If you look on the free ads the prices are there, when you go through CD or breed clubs and waiting lists it often says POA, now I think the general public expect to pay more for a dog from good parentage and from a breeder who shows their worth, but they need to know the price so that they can save up, I actually don't like POA, it gives the breeder the chance to swap and change prices, why not upfront with the price in the first place, what's the mystery? If POA isn't there in the first place no-one would need to ask and those who are more interested in price than quality would not get in touch in the first place.

It doesn't tally that the loving or specialist home will only come from someone who does not ask the price, I pay good money for something I want, but I certainly want to know how much that is, I would suggest ridding ourselves of POA why not be upfront?

I've just had a browse through the pet planet site mentioned by dogs a babe. I've learnt some very interesting things. Labradoodles are a breed, You can buy an Otterhound for £800 and they only need 1hr excercise a day, and Tibetan Mastiffs only need grooming once a week.

if people cant be bothered to phone then i dont bother replying

Can I just pick up on that point, I don't judge by phone calls, or e-mails, but only once meeting people, some people come across terrible on e-mail, are short and matter of fact and do not go into detail, or some may be very nervous at talking to strangers on the phone and not being prepared with questions or answers, I know a lot of shy people who would prefer to e-mail firstly (especially some men, who are just not good on the phone) I often have my best converstions via e-mail until they meet me and then they are not worried about picking up the phone, and I have had others who come across extremely brisk on the phone, and they could well put me off.

Truth is until we meet people, we don't know who is going to be a good owner for our pups, e-mails and phone calls only give us so much, that is the basics of their lifestyle etc, (and many can be written off just by the information given then,) but I would not write someone off just because they only wished to e-mail, when we meet in the flesh is when all the important answers come to us. :-)

I certainly don't judge by emails alone but it is interesting to compare what they tell you in writing and then again when you meet them.  I have recently turned down someone who initially told me they only worked part-time - but during the visit when work/amount of time being left was discussed it turned out they worked full time!  For this and another piece of info she also let slip about what her son did to her other dog, I turned her down for a puppy and she was quite upset about it.

Phew, that site's totally wrong for both my breeds, about £300 too low and also says groom once a week for the Cavs - every day or two days more like!! And shedding very little - hah! :-)

> for starters i wouldnt reply to an email unless id had a phone call from that person before, if people cant be bothered to phone then i dont bother replying

I personally would be more comfortable initially emailing someone I didn't know than phoning them - it isn't a 'being bothered' issue - why is an email any less of an effort than a phone call?

Sorry, we haven't profiled this breed yet, but we are adding more breeds every week, so please come back soon.

PetPlanet said that for Mastiffs too!!

It also said you can buy a Bulldog for £800.

well when all thats in the email is "how much?" or "do you have any left?" i really cant see where the effort is

When ever I get an enquiry via champdogs or anywhere else for that matter, it does not matter whether it is by email or telephone. I reply to the person by thanking them for their enquiry, and I send out a copy of a letter I keep on my pc detailing information such as health what the breed really is like to live with, advice on training and where possible a flatcoat friendly trainer etc... I always end the letter by wishing them good luck in their search and request they get back to me to let me know if it is successful. The letter also encourages them to go and meet breeders and dogs before making it their choice of dog, as it is important to get the right dog for them. I always put in Mrs Johnsons contact details.

I have in the past had two enquiries where the people were absolutely lovely but definately could not afford to pay the full price for a puppy in one go, so I did in those two cases allow them to pay me by instalments before they picked up the puppy. In one case the family became very successful and ended up owning their own business, and living in the most wonderful rural area. When their dog eventually died they returned to buy another dog from me, but as I didn't have any pups at that time I sent hem to Mrs Johnson who found a puppy for them. Another family in the same situation, ended up working their dog and he had the best life a dog could wish for, including going on patrol with his owner, visiting elderly folk in a nursing home and visiting schools as part of community relations exercises. When he died this family also came back to me to find another dog. These two families have kept in touch more than most other families and I got to see the dogs regularly as well.

I try to suss out the people asking to buy a puppy and the home offered is the prime consideration. One man who enquired who never asked the price, when I enquired if he would like to know the price, he said he didn't care because what ever it was he could pay it. When I eventually met him I really felt very uncomfortable with him and refused to sell him a puppy. I'm glad I didn't he turned out to be connected to a dog dealer.

> well when all thats in the email is "how much?" or "do you have any left?" i really cant see where the effort is

and who said that is all that would be in an email I sent???

that can be the only enquiry someone makes via a phone as well - the issue is what is being asked, not via what medium.

If the would be buyer doesn't ask the price, at what point would you tell them?

When I've learned enough about them to consider them suitable.

In Response to munrogirl76

and who said I was talking about an email you would send? also if there was an email address or phone number in an ad i was looking at i would choose to phone every time and im not good at talking on the phone either

Perhaps the person enquiring is using this as an initial question simply to break the ice and open up a conversation.... I dont see how you can simply say all the pups are sold and put the phone down just because you dont like their opening line, perhaps if you gave the enquirer a chance then they would ask further questions regarding the pups and would then tell you a little more about themselves and their circumstances.  I know when I was looking for my beautiful girl on  a number of occasions when I rang to make enquiries I know my opening line was how much are they then when the conversation started to flow I asked all sorts of questions about the bitch becauses I wanted to make sure as I am sure the sellers did that I was the right person for the bitch and she was the right bitch for me, I didnt want to buy a dog from an unscrupulous person.  Perhaps if I had rung you I know my opening line would have been how much are the bitches and I would have asked the same questions but I consider that I am a respinsible dog owner who takes a great deal of time and care in looking after my 3 dogs all of whom have a lovely life always out walking and when they are not out walking they would be playing on my small holding of 5 acres, but my opening line would not have allowed me to explain these things to you.  I only made enquiries last week about a chocolate lab bitch which had been sold but I could have a had  a 'so and so crossed with a so and so' this kind of response to my initial how much are the bitches was not what I expected and the way she was trying to push any pup on to me made me think I would definitely have not bought from her.   So please dont be put off by how much, responding to it may find you a loving home for your pups if you justy take the time to listen and ask questions yourself, I also went to meet with the owner of my bitch and invited her over to my home so she could see the environment that she would be brought up in.

I can quite see your point poppyspot and maybe some of us are being a little too harsh on telephone enquirers, but I'm sure when you enquired about your puppy you said something like 'Hello, I'm ringing to enquire about the puppies you have for sale, can I ask you how much they are please'. Believe it or not I have had several enquiries which went : ME..'Hello'. CALLER...'How much are your puppies'.

>> I personally would be more comfortable initially emailing someone I didn't know than phoning them - it isn't a 'being bothered' issue - why is an email any less of an effort than a phone call?

I would prefer to e-mail a breeder and after a few e-mails arrange a suitable time to call.  I often find phone calls quite imposing as phone calls always come at inappropriate moments ;) and I would prefer that someone got back to me when they had time to discuss the pups/my suitability etc rather than me catching them unprepared.  I totally agree with you munrogirl that there is no less effort put into e-mails than phonecalls.

My point really is - and here is what my actual email said;-

Title - HOW MUCH THEY ARE

Content of email - HOW MUCH ARE THEY SELLING FOR

No name, no please, thanks or anything.  Is this how you would make an initial enquiry for presumably a much wanted puppy?

I agree with Cheekychow. If an email address is given, then I would always email first, people with puppies/kennels to look after are busy and i feel that an email breaks the ice a bit and allows them to email me back with a suitable time to phone. I wouldn't ask how much as my first question but it would certainly be in there. To be honest I would find it helpful if the breeder told me this up front eg I email or phone and breeder replies with info about the litter including the cost of a pup.
I have recently bought two young pedigree cats, I had an idea of cost from the websites beforehand but still had to ask as they were not baby kittens. Again I asked lots of other things too but I can understand both sides of this issue as you could spend a lot of time with folk only for them to discover they are no where near the price. It would be useful if the breed clubs gave average costs and updated regularly!

But I would never only ask how much!

Reply to Ells-Bells

This doesn't sound like someone who really cares does it!!

I'm often saying to my kids, as my Mum used to say to me. it's not what you say but the way that you say it that really counts.

From this discussion it seems that is is quite alright to ask the cost of a puppy but obviously NOT in the way this person did.

Is it just me or are please and thank you used less than they used to be - particularly in emails?   I use Freecycle a lot to keep the clutter to a minimum and even when I'm offering something for FREE it's surprising how few people can string a polite sentence together.  (I'll get off my soapbox now shall I...?!)

> and who said I was talking about an email you would send? also if there was an email address or phone number in an ad i was looking at i would choose to phone every time and im not good at talking on the phone either

You were talking about an email from anyone as far as i could make out from your rather brief post (if not an email from me, or an interested party,  then an email from whom)? Therefore what i would put in an email would be relevant. You have said you would simply ignore it as it wasn't a phone call. I was pointing out why this was not IMO reasonable.

It is up to you whether you would choose to phone or not. Personally I wouldn't, as I don't like making phone calls.

Though to be honest I wouldn't be inclined to 'phone an ad' anyway - I would now prefer to contact the breed club and\ or get to know breeders through meeting and chatting to them at shows, observing dogs they have bred and looking at health results in the BRS.

> My point really is - and here is what my actual email said;-

> Title - HOW MUCH THEY ARE

> Content of email - HOW MUCH ARE THEY SELLING FOR

> No name, no please, thanks or anything.  Is this how you would make an initial enquiry for presumably a much wanted puppy?

Definitely not, no - there would be rather more to it than that if I was making an email enquiry. :-)

Hi Saxon

Yes I suppose putting it like that I would not just say how much are the puppies when the person answers the phone I would start with the pleasentaries of hello and I am enquiring about the puppies for sale.  To just say how much are the puppies as a breeder you are quite right to be cautious and conclusions can and would undoubtedly be made from that first contact.