I have just come back from Alfreton & District show having had a great day apart from one moment, about half way through the day our daxies had already been judged but had to wait around for group.  We were all set up and comfy at ringside so decided to watch the other breeds.  We and many other people including many kids and dogs were all watching the rotties (Some really nice dogs there today).  One guy was having a good look at one rottie in the ring from outside the ring, to look at this dog he had to walk around another rottie sat down quietly at ringside.  He must have known the owner as he said hi to her when for no reason that I could see the dog bite him.  I dont just mean a little nip but a big snarling multiple bite.  The guy was wearing a suit, as soon as he had been bite he took off his jacket and rolled up his shirt arm showing bites to both his upper and lower arm and bleeding.  He reported the dog to the show commitee so it will be reported to the KC.

The thing that ticked me off the most about the whole thing was that after the bite had happened the owner went back to her car and came back with the rottie muzzled.  If she has a muzzle for it has it done this before for her to warrant having a muzzle in the first place!!!  People bringing dogs like this is what gives rotties a bad name.  I don't own one any longer as I down sized but used to have an entire male that was the softest thing I have ever known.  It just makes me mad as if things like this keep hapening it ruins it for everyone else.

Anyway I have had my rant.

Can I ask why you've come on this site to talk about this?  Sorry but after all you read and hear on people trying to put people against this breed I was just wondering why this would be your first post?

I'm not saying that this didn't happen.  Maybe I'm feeling sorry for a breed that's being ruined by a few.

Hope the guy isn't too badly hurt.

know what you mean PD.....like signing up to CD to post about some dog show you are running then not posting again....ulterior motive!!! :(

On the other hand may be the OP is a regular reader and this is the first time they have felt the need to express a view and joined just to do so.

Happy to give you the benefit of the doubt and say welcome.

Nobody likes a breed being 'picked on', but surely we cannot accept dogs biting people anywhere. It is not just Rottweilers that are responsible, but while we get all defensive about a breed we are not getting at the root of the problem are we. I love rotts and have worked with and trained many over the years, never have I come close to being bitten. That does not mean there are not some stupid people who seem not to care. I have been bitten only once when a child, by a Dachshund that was known to me and was in my home, any breed can bite, it is silly to blame every dog of a breed for the mistake of one.
However I do think there are too many incidents occuring and feel we must try and find a way forward without the witch-hunt element. One of the Judges at East of England got bitten on the face by one of the Spaniel breeds. All attacks at shows should be reported to K.C.
To say that the post should not have been made is ridiculous, I thought this was supposed to be an Open forum and unless the content is suspect in any way it should be allowed even if you do not agree with the sentiment.
Sorry but all this back biting only gives fuel to those who want to knock Dog Showing,and they may well be reading this right now!!

Nowhere did I say that I accept dogs biting I don't and nowhere did I say it shouldn't have been posted.

Just on a few dog forums this last few days there seems to be some people posting that you haven't heard of before on topics like this.  Maybe I'm becoming to wary in my old age :)

Its a active topic on something we do not see to often a KC Event
Thankfully,  the number of times a person makes a post is  immaterial
Its a topic that concerns  exhibitors and judges, and by the sound of
the post  spectators also,  Lets hope the Sec as it logged in the Incident book.
Garry

Is it the fact that it is a Rotti, that makes the post so upsetting?  We cant hide things.  We shouldnt.  I dont agree with saying that all of a certain breed is bad, cos it isnt true, but in this case, it was a Rotti.  Next time it could be a Pom.  The OP was giving facts to say why he was so upset. 

A lot of breeds are being ruined by a few people.  Thats why a lot of places have Breed Specific Legislation.  But, this one instance, wouldnt change anything in the ways of laws.  It takes a lot of certain breed to change laws. 

I am not against Rottis at all.  But a dog bite is a dog bite, and lets hope the man who was bit, is ok. 

It seemed to me the OP was complaining about the owner, the breed of dog is really not the point the point is that although the handler of this dog knew it may bite and had a muzzle for it, presumably because it had or had attempted to bite before, they took no avoiding action. If this is so it is the height of stupidity not to make sure the dog can't cause someone to be injured. Because of this handlers appalling lack of care not only was someone bitten but the dog is, rightly, likely to be band from showing ever again and so are his or her innocent progeny.

> I'm not saying that this didn't happen

Yes, it did happen - saw the guy later on.

As I keep saying I'm not saying that IT DIDN'T!!! 

>England got bitten on the face by one of the Spaniel breeds

I don't know how reliable this information is but it sort of puts things in perspective.

Bites requiring hospital treatment are mostly caused by Spaniels (made up of mostly cockers & springers).

Surpassing dog bites requiring hospital treatment are bites by humans!  So more likely to be bitten by a human than a dog.

http://www.stopdogattacks.com/dogbitestatistics/ukdogbitestats/

As far as the OP is concerned, I think it would be more useful to omit the breed and look at the post in terms of point being made.  As I read it the post is not about breed but about the fact that the owner took a dog into a public place unmuzzled when she more than likely knew the dog was aggressive. 

The breed becomes relevant when you consider its size because had that been a child passing there would be good chance the dog would have bitten the child's face.

I was also at the show and saw this incident, not the actual bite, but the hoo-ha afterwards. I was appalled by an earlier event, when the announcer announced over the PA system, which we could all hear clearly, that we would have a minute silence as a mark of respect to Terry Thorn and Sybil Lennox. About half the people on the showground completely ignored this request and just carried on about their business. Two women standing behind me were chatting away to one another in very loud voices, so I turned and told them to be quiet. One of them rolled her eyes and lit a fag.

handler of this dog knew it may bite and had a muzzle for it

Having a muzzle means little though.  He may not have knew his dog was going to bite.  I have a muzzle, for my dogs.  Its not that I fear them bitting anyone, on a normal day, as they are friendly.  I keep a muzzle around for emergencies, as I would never trust a hurt dog, no matter how gentle they are normally.  I also take it on walks with me and the dogs, and to the dog shows.  Just incase.

So, to point out that the owner must know the dog could bite, simply because he had a muzzle for it, may not be correct. 

Saxon that is extremely sad and I bet most of these people were in the age range who usually say that the youngsters have no respect!

To perrodeagua

The reason I posted this was to express my concern about a person who has a dog that is obviously normally muzzled being at a show.  If a dog reacts in such a manner why is it there?
Not something I have seen anyone discuss and wondered how people felt about it.  This is only the second bite I have ever seen at a show but feel this is 2 bites too many, the first was by a smooth coated collie (Rare dogs these days).

Also yes the guy seemed to be OK, more shaken than anything.  Thankfully he was blaming the owner more than the dog which I agree with.  I often feel that a dog is never born aggresive but made that way.

Also thankyou Nova, I have been breeding and showing for a long time and have been reading champdogs for a long time but only just joined and added my own pages as i wanted to start to contribute my knowledge especially on the breeding side of things.

Yes Perrodeagua you are right. They were mostly people who should be setting an example to younger exhibitors.

And more importantly, would this dog be bred from??

spiritualist, you have made an extremely good point.  Many people on this site (and other sites) would say that one way to help ascertain a quality dog is one that has had success in the showring.  this dog that bit could have been very successful in the ring but as you say would it be a good specimen to breed from?  If the sire has dodgy temprement how can prospective buyers ascertain this as again one of the signs of a good breeder is one that doesn't use the nearest dog but rather the best match to their dog.  It is not uncommon to overlook temprament flaws in favour of physical attributes.

hello,
i would like to state a few facts:-

1)  the dog in question was at the show to be shown and had already been in the ring.
2)  the handler didnt want the judge to check his teeth and asked if she could do it herself.
3)  the dog growled at the judge while he was being gone over.
4)  the handler had trouble controling the dog in the ring
5)  the incident was reported to the show secretary
6)  the dog was eventually removed from the precincts of the show.
7)  the man that was bitten was badly shaken up and has bites to both fore and upper arm but was able to continue showing later in the day

and here is some hear-say

1)  the dog will never be in the show ring again
2)  the K.C. will be informed
3)  the dog has done it before

if the dog has done it before, surely any person in thier right mind would not put the dog in the show ring for an unsuspecting judge to go over ! obviously they want to win a rosette at any cost.   very very sad ! ! !

the rottweiler has enough bad press with out people like this adding fuel to the fire.

If this goes before the KC as it should then the dog and any of its offspring could be banned from being shown. So its value as a stud dog regardless of its physical attributes will be nil. However regardless of that, good breeders class temperement as important ,if not more so than any physical  attribute  a stud dog may have.

I can understand any dog such as this being banned from showing but can't understand the progeny being banned. How does that work................people could have used the dog not realising the dog was like this..no one is with a prospective stud dog 24 hours a day!!! Why should those with progeny from this dog be banned from the ring UNLESS they are exhibiting the same traits.
What would happen if a dog had been used at stud many many times and then went to a show as a veteran and bit someone would all that dogs children  who could maybe be 5 years old ish be banned from the ring?

It is future progeny that is banned not puppies already born & registered

Opps I get u now..............thanks

That is Correct Moonmaiden,  if the said dog is banned, no pups
sired by him after the ban will be registered with the KC,
Garry

I feel i have to post to this. I was at the show and saw the incident in question.. Why do people jump in, when most is hearsay from around the rings,, yes people saw this happen and its a thing i do not want to see again,, saying this i have seen bites happen a few times even at champ shows only one other being a rott,, it was trodden on and did the only thing it could by nipping the person that hurt it, all be it not on purpose. The dog is question did bite and it was awful,, but this is where i stand my ground, the person with the dog was not its owner,, the owner then went and fetched a HALTI NOT A MUZZLE im sure the differance should be known by all concerned in this and people around the ring,, If the dog had growled at the judge he would have said something,, many show people show their own dogs teeth as it stops cross infection. Yes the incident was reported to the show sec..

In my experience alot of  judges do not say anything when a dog growls. Certainly at open shows, some judges are either new to judging or from a different breed, and are not aware, or even certain that they can (and perhaps should) say something; or are not strong enough, or do not want to be seen to be judging a dog and perhaps warning the owner or sending it from a ring.

I am aware that with the rottie breed, some males do 'talk', some loving the attention, but some are giving signs that they are not happy. Regardless a handler should always, be it in the ring or out have full control over the dog they have, just in case.

I am saddened that yet again, an incident has again happened involving my breed. Being in the breed, I am aware of the dog in question, I have seen it act unpredictably before at a couple of shows, and hope the owner will now fully realise that this dog is not happy being shown, and is a reliability when in a show environment.

I also am saddened when a dog showes unpredictability in the ring. I feel it should be the owners responsibility to remove it and cease showing unless the behaviour can be halted. However sometimes agressive behaviour can be hidden too, at least now this dog will be (Hopefully) banned from showing and siring pups with a possibility to agressiveness. In many ways it is a good thing and should now remove this dog from any future breeding programms there by, we hope helping to improve the breed in some small way. At least when this sort of thing happens in a very public place there is the hope that it will be removed from the breed genetics and lets face it whatever the breed there is no place for using dogs with agression problems.
I once had a GSD that showed well for her 1st year in the ring, she was fine with family and friends but as she got older became wary of strangers and could be quite vocal, one day she growled at the judge and I withdrew her and she never showed again....or bred!! Just me being over cautious...well maybe but I would not like to feel resposible for breeding nasty dogs of whatever breed.
Aileen.

Miss Fedup, I don't think people were 'jumping in' as such, you seem to be taking a personal offence at previous posts. As this is your first post, are you the handler concerned? If not, I apologise, but you must realise how serious an incident it is. A bite is a bite.

It is distressing for all concerned (including owners, handlers, the person who was bitten and also onlookers who saw it happen) If a dog bites, it was not under control in the first place.

IMHO, the owners decision to keep the dog in the vicinity of what had just happened and the put a halti on it was foolish. Regardless of whether it was a muzzle or halti is, quite frankly, irrelevant. The dog should have been removed by the owner/handler at once.

As with anything, experience comes with time. I hope the handler learns from this, and ensures any dogs that are handled in the future are under control. The handler concerned should also be quite sure that if they carry on handling other peoples dogs, then they must know their own limits when it comes to being able to control a dog.

In the present climate within this breed, there are many people ready to jump on the 'I hate rottweilers' wagon, so extra caution needs to be taken.

No i am not the owner of said dog.I just get uptight when our breed is put in the wrong kind of public opinion. I do own rotts yes and show them,, my dogs have great temprements,, it saddens me when this sort of thing happens at shows..Of course i realise how serious this incident was, thats why i'm so upset, it should never have happened, but it did and we can't do much about it now,, yes a lot of rotts talk and people who do not know the breed and take them to be growling in temper (not so). I can only hope that the said dog will not be in the show ring again.. As for the handler i can only presume she trusted the dog,, i dont know, i cant speak for her. i fully agree with what you are saying. All we can do it be extra vigilant as rott owners,,,

well said universalady,
can i just correct miss fedup on a couple of things, you state that the judge was a man,"If the dog had growled at the judge he would have said something"  in fact the judge that day was a woman and one that knows the difference between a talking rottie and one that is growling !

Have to say that I've been to two shows now where GSD's have attacked.  One last week and really injured someone quite badly and yesterday at Bakewell where a woman just missed having her leg badly injured, thank God she was what was coming and moved away just in time.  How she moved so quickly in a fraction of a second I don't know.  Neither were muzzled but it was very evident that the dog yesterday wasn't new to having a go at other dogs as in the two minutes I saw him he went to go for a number of dogs

Sorry i said man i was refering to the man that was injured he is a judge to.. to be honest i think the dog should be banned from all shows, i agree with you all on that. Yet some judges that do not know rotts and could mistake a growl (as in talking) the wrong way..i am just upset with it all.. please forgive me if i have offened anyone, that was not my intention..

Must point out that the GSDs @ Bakewell yesterday were of the "UK"type & not the International type. I had my little Joedee attacked @ the UK GSD show a year back, forunately that dog was muzzled, however he did later go in the ring & win his class !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wonder if it was the same dog ?

Sorry am I getting this right that some breeds take dogs to dog shows muzzled?

Well the one that attacked my 7 kg Cavalier was muzzled-the owner told me it attacked because it felt threatened by my dog !! my JD loves GSDs BTW he was brought up with our German bred rescue girl who was his surrogate mum ! He did wag his tail in front of the dog though !

That is terrible.  If a dog has that uncertain temperment it should not be shown regardless of the breed.  How on earth could any dog be threatened by a cavalier.

Mind you in saying that at Paignton I saw another breed benched very near the junior handling rings and there were two dogs who continually lunged out and did not have a bench guard on.  If ever there was a accident waiting to happen that was it. 

I always crate my dogs at shows because I have had dogs attack mine in the benches and mine are protective on the bench but I have got to be honest if I had to take any of my dogs to a show with a muzzle on I wouldnt go.

hi. miss fedup, 
your appology,    i'm sure,    is accepted by all and i dont think you offended anyone really, it is obviously a subject close to hearts of many rotty owners and we all get a little heated sometimes........................  we should all stick together to help protect this wonderful breed !
take care