Hi,  If you breed two dogs with good hip scores and clear eye certificates but found out that a puppy that you had breed suffered hip dysplasia would you repeat the mating? If not, and you owned both dog and bitch (carefully selected for compatability with help from a well established breeder) would you mate either of these dogs again with other partners.  I am in contact with the breeders of both dog and bitch and there are no known cases of hip dysplasia.  Also, is there a register that records confirmed cases- this would surely help to reduce what is clearly a very sad and horrible condition. I am very happy to take advise as I would never willingly produce a dog that may suffer health issues.
Thanks in advance.

No, I would not do a repeat mating. Whether the reason for the HD is genetic or not I wouldn't want to risk it. As to using either again for breeding I suppose it might depend on the results. No-one knows for sure where the HD comes from, and it could be that it is just those two dogs that have produced this because they were mated together. They might not produce it to other, unrelated dogs. If you are in a breed that has a relatively small gene pool then I would, but if you had something like Labs (very large gene pool ;-) ) then no, I don't think I would.

Edited to add: The only results are those of dogs that have been x-rayed and scored by the MBVA.

Thank you.  Do the MBVA have a web site or some other way for the public to access the results?  What is the latest thoughts on genetic v environmental issues for hip dysplasia?

Sian,

De[ending on what type of dog that you have some publish results such as Standfast Data for GR's, you can go back through BRS though if you want to find certain info.
Regarding HD, enviromental factors can cause HD, such as too much excercise in the formative growth period, incorrect food, jumping, climbing on and off things etc, it isn't clear cut I am afraid. It may be worth sending an e-mail to Jeff Sampson at the Kennel Club (he's the geneticist) to ask his opinion.

I made a spelling mistake, sorry. It's the British Veterinarian Association, thus the BVA ;-) I don't know where the M part came from. Must have hit the key with my finger.

My breed puts all the results in it's newsletter, but you would have read back issues to find out the results of relatives. The Kennel Club should have all the results together, but you would need to pay for it. However, not all dogs are x-rayed (or scored) so you wouldn't find out about any relatives that had HD before they were done. It tends to show up quite early on, and you can't score before they are 12 months old when it can be painfully obvious if they have it.

I would also consider whether the HD had environmental causes

As Paula says, there can also be environmental causes for HD, and indeed for most other bone/growing abnormalities. The main culprits being, over excercise when the growth plates are forming or the ball/socket joints are still forming, or over supplemenation with additives such as calcium. What about the other puppies in the litter, are they all ok. Also, you must remember that when you mate two dogs, you are not just mating them, you are also mating all their ancestors. Unless you know the hip scores of every dog and bitch in both pedigrees for several generation back, it's almost impossible to track down the culprit. Conversely, there are examples of breeders breeding from bitches with quite high scores and getting puppies with normal scores which themselves go on to produce several generations of normal scores. Of course, to do this you would have to undertake a huge amount of research into the background of the bitch and only attempt it if the bitches ancestors for several generations back all have good hips and also you would need to check the other puppies in the litter to see if their scores were normal.

Hi, thanks, this is all very useful.  We have breed the same two dogs twice and had a total of 11 puppies and the rest are ok. We do explain to all our owners the importance of now allowing their dogs too much freedom in the first 6 months (mostly on-lead walks) and to avoid steps and jumping etc.  I know that the affected pup lives close to the beach and that they had another dog so I guess it may have been more tempting to break these rules.  I'd like to hope that it is environmental, but would not like to risk producing more pups with HD. My breed average is 19 our Dam is 9 and the Sire is 12. With regard to ancestors, I assumed they must have good hip scores or surely they would not be KC registered-is that correct?  If the breed average is 19 what score would KC accept from parents in order to register pups?

When you register a pup with the KC you wouldn't know it's hipscore as a dog has to be over a year old to be hipscored.

Sorry -I mean the parents scores- surely they would not register a litter from parents with high hip scores would they?

I don't think KC cares, I believe they will register a pup from unscored parents! Or parents with bad hips...

>With regard to ancestors, I assumed they must have good hip scores or surely they would not be KC registered-is that correct?

No, as long as both parents are KC registered, of the same breed, have no endorsements on their own registrations and the bitch is neither too young (under 12 months) too old (over 8 years) or had more than 6 litters then the puppies will be registered.

>If the breed average is 19 what score would KC accept from parents in order to register pups?

Any. There is no requirement for testing at all.

I think that is terrible! I think most people believe that the KC is there to protect dogs and potential owners against poor breeding!
Jeangenie do you have a comment about my original post?

>  With regard to ancestors, I assumed they must have good hip scores or surely they would not be KC registered

So did you not research the hip scores (and any other necessary health tests) for dogs further back in their pedigree?  The mode of inheritance is not completely understood for HD anyway, but even a basic understanding of genetics should tell you that problems can skip generations!

Obviously I knew the hip scores of both parents of both of my dogs ( which were all well below the breed average) but I didn't know grand-parents and great-grandparents hip scores.  I have looked at the web site suggested above but could not see all dogs listed there- where did you research this information?

Not all dogs with "bad" hipscores produce offspring with bad scores, Whereas not all dogs with excellent hipscores produce pups with excellent scores.  But at least looking at the ancestors and any further offspring you get a good idea of what is produced.

One of my dogs has a high hipscore but I was able to view his pups, grandpups etc hipscores online as there are a number in Sweden, Finland and America, luckily they are all very good.  His grandson has the lowest score in this country for this breed and one of his daughters has the second lowest.  A number of his pups have now been scored over here and all are under the breed average.

Though saying the above it is only because he has offspring around the world that I used a dog with his hipscore.  If I wasn't able to do this with another dog of the same score I wouldn't use it.